Air France Flight 447 Did Not Break Up, Fell Intact Into Sea: French Investigator

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GREG KELLER and EMMA VANDORE | 07/ 2/09 09:12 PM | AP

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Workers unload debris, belonging to crashed Air France flight AF447, from the Brazilian Navy's Constitution Frigate in the port of Recife, northeast of Brazil, Sunday, June 14, 2009. A burst of last-minute automatic messages sent by Air France Flight 447 includes one about a problem with a rudder safety device but that does not explain what sent the jet plunging into the Atlantic Ocean, an aviation expert said. (AP Photo/Eraldo Peres)

LE BOURGET, France — Air France Flight 447 slammed into the Atlantic Ocean, intact and belly first, at such a high speed that the 228 people aboard probably had no time to even inflate their life jackets, French investigators said Thursday in their first report into the June 1 accident.

Likening the investigation to a puzzle with missing pieces, lead investigator Alain Bouillard said that one month after the crash, "we are very far from establishing the causes of the accident."

Problematic speed sensors on the Airbus A330-200 jet that have been the focus of intense speculation since the crash may have misled the plane's pilots but were not a direct cause, Bouillard said, while admitting that investigators are still a long way from knowing what did precipitate the disaster.

"The investigation is a big puzzle," said Bouillard, who is leading the probe for the French accident agency BEA. "Today we only have a few pieces of the puzzle which prevents us from even distinguishing the photo of the puzzle."

The plane was flying from Rio de Janeiro to Paris when it went down in a remote area of the Atlantic, 930 miles (1,500 kilometers) off Brazil's mainland and far from radar coverage.

The BEA released its first preliminary findings on the crash Thursday, calling it one of history's most challenging plane crash investigations. Yet the probe, which has operated without access to the plane's flight data and voice recorders, appears so far to have unveiled little about what really caused the accident.

The speed sensors, called Pitot tubes, are "a factor but not the only one," Bouillard said. "It is an element but not the cause," Bouillard told a news conference in Le Bourget outside Paris.

Other elements that came under scrutiny in the immediate aftermath of the crash, such as the possibility that heavy storms or lightning may have brought down the jet, were also downplayed in the BEA's presentation.

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Meteorological data show the presence of storm clouds in the area the jet would have flown through, but nothing out of the ordinary for the equatorial region in June, Bouillard said, eliminating the theory that the plane could have encountered a storm of unprecedented power. Other flights through the area shortly after Flight 447 disappeared didn't report unusual weather, Bouillard said.

"Between the surface of the water and 35,000 feet, we don't know what happened," Bouillard acknowledged. "In the absence of the flight recorders, it is extremely difficult to draw conclusions."

Representatives of families of the victims said they learned little new and vowed to continue to push for more information.

Charles-Henri Tardivat, lawyer representing victims' families said now that the phase of grief had passed, he expected families to be "even more motivated in trying to get answers and there's going to be significant pressure put on the authorities to continue feeding the facts and the answers that are necessary in this case. "

A burst of automated messages emitted by the plane before it fell gave rescuers only a vague location to begin their search, which has failed to locate the plane's black boxes in the vast ocean expanse.

The chances of finding the flight recorders are falling daily as the signals they emit fade. Without them, the full causes of the tragic accident may never be known.

One of the automatic messages indicates the plane was receiving incorrect speed information from the external monitoring instruments, which could destabilize its control systems. Experts have suggested those external instruments might have iced over.

The Pitots have not been "excluded from the chain that led to the accident," Bouillard said.

Analysis of the 600-odd pieces of the jet that have been recovered indicate the plane "was not destroyed in flight" and appeared to have hit the water intact and "belly first," gathering speed as it dropped thousands of feet, he said.

He also said investigators have found "neither traces of fire nor traces of explosives."

Shortly after the crash, aviation experts indicated that fractures revealed during autopsies of the victims along with the large pieces of wreckage pulled from the Atlantic strongly suggested the plane broke up in the air. There was no immediate explanation for the apparent contradiction between the BEA's findings and those viewpoints.

Bouillard said air traffic controllers in Dakar, Senegal had never officially taken control of Flight 447 after its last radio contact with Brazilian flight controllers at 1:35 a.m., and it wasn't until up to seven hours later that flight controllers in Madrid and Brest, France, raised an alarm. He said the delay was being investigated but was not a cause of the crash.

Brazilian Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz said all required information on the plane's flight plan was passed to Senegalese air controllers.

Some members of the crash victims' families said that without a clear cause to blame the accident on, the interim report held little significance.

Marco Tulio Moreno Marques, a 43-year-old lawyer in Rio de Janeiro, lost both his parents in the crash. He did not bother watching the French investigators' public presentation, saying that without the black boxes, he was skeptical of any findings.

"I think it is difficult that they will ever find out what happened," he said. "They can say a flying saucer hit the plane, but if they don't find the black boxes we will never know for certain what happened."

Kieran Daly, editor of Air Transport Intelligence, said although investigators seem to know very little about what happened due to "a horrendous lack of evidence," it is significant that the plane landed the right way up.

"It suggests they were in some kind of flight attitude," he said.

But he warned that "without finding the black boxes it's going to be phenomenally difficult, maybe impossible, to determine what happened."

Bouillard said life vests found among the wreckage were not inflated, suggesting passengers were not prepared for a crash landing in the water. The pilots apparently also did not send any mayday calls.

He said there was "no information" suggesting a need to ground the world's fleet of more than 600 A330 planes as a result of the crash.

"As far as I'm concerned there's no problem flying these aircraft," he said.

Air France said all elements of the investigation "will be fully and immediately taken into account by the airline" and that it is continuing to cooperate with the investigators with "a commitment to total transparency with regard to the investigators, its passengers and the general public."

The black boxes _ which are in reality bright orange _ are resting somewhere on an underwater mountain range filled with crevasses and rough, uneven terrain. Bouillard said the search for them has been extended by 10 days through July 10, while his investigation would run through Aug. 15.

Bouillard said French investigators have yet to receive any information from Brazilian authorities about the results of the autopsies on the 51 bodies recovered from the site.

But a spokesman for the Public Safety Department in Brazil's Pernambuco state _ in charge of the autopsies _ denied that.

"French medical examiners are working together with Brazilian medical examiners and they have full access to all the information obtained from autopsies," the spokesman said on condition of anonymity according to department rules.

Families of the victims met with officials from BEA, Air France and the French transport ministry before the report was released. An association of families addressed a letter to the CEO of Air France, Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, demanding answers to several questions about the plane.

Investigators should have an easier time recovering debris and black boxes in the crash of a Yemeni Airbus 310 with 153 people on board that went down Tuesday just nine miles (14.5 kilometers) north of the Indian Ocean island-nation of Comoros.

___

Vandore reported from Paris. Associated Press writers Cecile Brisson at Le Bourget, Angela Charlton in Paris, Marco Sibaja in Brasilia, Bradley Brooks in Rio de Janeiro and Stan Lehman in Sao Paulo contributed to this report.

LE BOURGET, France — Air France Flight 447 slammed into the Atlantic Ocean, intact and belly first, at such a high speed that the 228 people aboard probably had no time to even inflate their lif...
LE BOURGET, France — Air France Flight 447 slammed into the Atlantic Ocean, intact and belly first, at such a high speed that the 228 people aboard probably had no time to even inflate their lif...
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- wordvarc I'm a Fan of wordvarc 31 fans permalink

Maybe an Airbus is an example of over reliance on technology.

Off autopilot an AirBus is simply not "pilot friendly." The aircraft offers extreme automation with the removal of the "feel" required by pilots when the auto pilot is kicked off in 'coffin corner' and computors send erroneous information.

The airbus planes are not designed for pilots but by "engineers for engineers."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 07/18/2009
- RTIII I'm a Fan of RTIII 82 fans permalink


"Investigators should have an easier time recovering debris and black boxes in the crash of a Yemeni Airbus 310 with 153 people on board that went down Tuesday just nine miles (14.5 kilometers) north of the Indian Ocean island-nation of Comoros."

Here's the story we almost didn't get - the LAST line in the article...

ANOTHER Airbus 310 went down - on Tuesday?!

Hmmm.... MAYBE we'd better pay a LOT of attention on what went wrong on that one!
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 07/05/2009
- RTIII I'm a Fan of RTIII 82 fans permalink


"Investigators should have an easier time recovering debris and black boxes in the crash of a Yemeni Airbus 310 with 153 people on board that went down Tuesday just nine miles (14.5 kilometers) north of the Indian Ocean island-nation of Comoros."

Here's the story we almost didn't get - the LAST line in the article...

ANOTHER Airbus 310 went down - on Tuesday?!

Hmmm.... MAYBE we'd better pay a LOT of attention on what went wrong on that one!
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 07/05/2009
- Academic I'm a Fan of Academic 239 fans permalink

How did this person know what happened when the black boxes still haven't been found; most of the plane is still missing as is the majority of passengers; and those found are all dead?

Anything for one's five minutes of fame these days, it seems.

Professor Dr. Stanley Collymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 AM on 07/04/2009

I don't understand this: "Air France Flight 447 slammed into the Atlantic Ocean, intact and belly first, at such a high speed that the 228 people aboard probably had no time to even inflate their life jackets, French investigators said..."

They had no time to inflate life jackets before what? Is the investigator implying that if they'd had them on some would have survived? It seems to me that if it slammed into the sea at such a high speed, he's suggesting that the impact was lethal. If so, the fact that there was no time for life vests was irrelevant. If he means something else, it isn't clear. Very confusing...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 07/03/2009

I do not believe the accident investigator was implying anything; they don't do that sort of thing. They state things, and reporters turn one small fact into a day's work. There is no reason to believe that anyone would have survived if life jackets were deployed. No one knows how much time anyone had to do anything, but it is likely that hitting the water was the lethal part of this event. I don't know if that helps you get unconfused---but a lot of this investigation is still unknown.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 AM on 07/04/2009
- piul05 I'm a Fan of piul05 52 fans permalink
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All it's saying is that it happened very, very fast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 AM on 07/04/2009
- JBS I'm a Fan of JBS 17 fans permalink
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I think what you're seeing is evidence of "inadvertent flight into terrain", i.e.with all the things that stopped working and considering the weather and time, the flight crew didn't know they were descending and flew right into the water.

It's going to be one of those "pilot error" determinations, with the error caused by all the equipment malfunctioning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 AM on 07/05/2009
- JBS I'm a Fan of JBS 17 fans permalink
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I mis-spoke - that should be "controlled flight into terrain".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 07/05/2009
- NEWSWOMAN I'm a Fan of NEWSWOMAN 2 fans permalink

This airbus accident, I think was terrorism. France keeps changing its story as to what happened. I think they are afraid that no one will want to travel on Air France (if that was the airline) if they admit it was a terrorist act.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 07/03/2009

How did your hypothetical terrorists manage to time this event to correspond so perfectly with the one severe weather system en route? What devious device did they employ to disable first the airspeed indicators, and then a minute later the gyros, without releasing the cabin pressurization for another two minutes? And finally, why do you think these terrorists didn't claim responsibility? Are they trying to drive us mad with curiosity?

Accident investigations can take years, and the 'story' changes as more is learned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 07/03/2009
- piul05 I'm a Fan of piul05 52 fans permalink
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:-))

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 07/04/2009

And this is why the French wanted NOT to find the black boxes. Or maybe they did, but no one will know about it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 07/02/2009

This was TERRORISM. www.Flight447.com was registered TWO years ago!!! Go to internic and check for yourself. It was registered by a muslim film maker. Why is this not covered in the news? That's the real story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 07/02/2009

A Muslim filmmaker who lives in Malibu and brokers domain names. Karim Bian also appears to have camped on just about every other flight number you can imagine for the last two years. I guess his payday finally arrived. It doesn't appear as if he's bought all the four digit flight numbers yet, if you want to beat him to the punch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 07/03/2009
- talkingdog I'm a Fan of talkingdog 24 fans permalink
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I think it takes a bit of time to decend from 35,000 feet to the surface of the sea, during which time; isn't it possible to restart engines and re-align flaps to take back aerodynamic control?

At least to call to air traffic control?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 07/02/2009

I'm trying to figure this ATC call...
“Merde, merde, merde this is Air France 447 departing your airspace for eternity”

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 07/02/2009
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 386 fans permalink
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Out over the middle of the ocean, you're out of normal VHF radio range (100 miles or so). All you have is the HF (shortwave) radios.

It can take a while to contact somebody on the HF and if you've got your hands full trying to fly a plane that doesn't want to fly you might not even try.

I was taught to "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" in that order.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 07/03/2009
- lungfish I'm a Fan of lungfish 106 fans permalink
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Indeed, CRM is fully occupied with "aviating" when things go bad. I am not surprised that they didn't get a call out.
However, we can't rule out terrorism... you don't need a bomb to bring down an airplane, especially with highly automated, computerized aircraft....
Nuff said about that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 07/03/2009

Also, if you're flying at night and lose certain instrument readings, especially in a storm, isn't it possible you wouldn't know you were descending until it was too late?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 07/03/2009
- GeoLee I'm a Fan of GeoLee 62 fans permalink

This is so tragic. I jsut hope the [passengers lost consciousness quickly as I hate to think of the horror they felt if not. with the second Airbus going down so quickly, I am glad the Military tanker project wit back up for rebidding after the unfair treatment of Boeing in the bidding process. Word out here in Kansas is that Airbus got the original contract as pay off for sending troops to Iraq and not because it was the best bid. Id sounds like something was wrong with both the planes that went down.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 PM on 07/02/2009

'Word out here in Kansas is that Airbus got the original contract as pay off for sending troops to Iraq...'

I was not aware that Airbus had an Army. Please tell us what "word" you have in Kansas that the rest of us don't have. What is the name of the Airbus Army, how big is it and who commands it, OK?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 AM on 07/03/2009

If the plane hit the water intact with some kind of flight attitude.And the passengers were not prepared for a water ditching.And no mayday was called.Is it possible they unknowingly flew into the water?What was the visibility that day?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 07/02/2009

Dark above and dark below with lots of lightning in between

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 07/02/2009
- dutchman I'm a Fan of dutchman 351 fans permalink
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Some observations:

1) This may never be solved. Without the CVR, the best we can get is speculation. And it highlights the risk that any flight, be it in an old or new plane, is at risk of falling from the sky.

2) Flying, as in all things in life, carries an inherent , and (after a while) measurable risk. Flying is incredibly safe. GIven just how supremely complicated it is to move these large beasts between continents, it's amazing there aren't more crashes.

3) But, as safe is they are, the more flights there are, the more likelihood there is that we will turn on the news and learn about the tragedies we've been seeing.

Consider this: there is a an infinitesimally small chance that any individual airline flight will be hit be a meteor or space debris. The probability is vanishingly small, but it is not zero. It will probably never happen to you. But given enough time and enough flights. It will happen.

A million monkeys over a million years typing away will eventually produce one of Shakespeare's Works.

Probability: You can only run from it so far. But try not to let it worry you too much. Que sera, sera. And peace to the surviving families. Random fate can be the hardest fate to fathom.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 07/02/2009
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Liked this post - Well written and true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 07/02/2009
- dutchman I'm a Fan of dutchman 351 fans permalink
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Thanks,

Ironically, it's the jet lag talking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 07/02/2009
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Why not equip the planes with two or three big parachutes like modern air bags for cars? Also why not equip the plane with an inflatable device that will the keep the plan floating upon hitting the water?

In situation like this, the parachute would've slowed down the fall and the flotation device would've kept the plane floating until the help arrive?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 07/02/2009
- dutchman I'm a Fan of dutchman 351 fans permalink
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Why not?

Money.

Since the Wright Brothers, the world's airlines have collectively lost more money than they have made.

Interestingly, this is not true for airplane makers.

To outfit such large planes with sufficiently strong parachutes and large floatation devices would take a up vast amounts of precious seat space (even it's even remotely feasible - I have to defer to Major Kong on this point), and with the ongoing hemorrhaging of cash by pretty much every airline, the odds of it happening are actually smaller than that of an individual plane crashing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 07/02/2009
- fumes I'm a Fan of fumes 76 fans permalink
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all seats should double as floatation devices for those strapped to them and double as air bags for those sitting directly behind. all black boxes should float and be attached to the outside skin of the aircraft where they can be jettisoned by salt water sensors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 07/03/2009
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 386 fans permalink
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Large airliners weigh anywhere from 300,000 pounds on up. There's not enough parachute in the world to handle that kind of weight.

They make parachutes for light aircraft (Cessnas and such) but those planes weigh less than a small car.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 PM on 07/03/2009
- goingnow I'm a Fan of goingnow 12 fans permalink
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I decided to study the detailed meteorological data myself right after the accident and found they had just passed over a particularly violent storm cell capable of causing water spouts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 PM on 07/02/2009
- wordvarc I'm a Fan of wordvarc 31 fans permalink

"Air France Crash Bodies Show Fractures: Brazil"
STAN LEHMAN and EMMA VANDORE | June 17, 2009 SAO PAULO — Autopsies have revealed fractures in the legs, hips and arms of Air France disaster victims, injuries that _ along with the large pieces of wreckage pulled from the Atlantic _ strongly suggest the plane broke up in the air, experts said Wednesday.

Today we heard from France who did not talk to Brazilian investigators. Airbus news now seems severely politicized; my guess is Brazil is now a more reliable source than France, Air France, and Airbus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 07/02/2009

If they stalled at 35,000 feet,...why no mayday?

If they stalled at that height why couldn't the regain control?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 PM on 07/02/2009

There is no evidence of a stall, quite the contrary. If I were facing certain death within a couple minutes, with both hands full of control systems, desperately trying to figure out a solution at night without instrumentation, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't “phone a friend”, especially not a Brazilian traffic cop located 700 miles away. That is, unless I was married to the Brazilian traffic cop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 PM on 07/02/2009
- FZliveson I'm a Fan of FZliveson 82 fans permalink
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The pilot of a Pacific Southwest Airlines 727 called to the tower twice in the final 12 seconds of its dive into a San Diego residential area in 1980's. Many good captains have done such things. It is certainly not required and enforcement after the fact is rather moot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 AM on 07/03/2009
- wordvarc I'm a Fan of wordvarc 31 fans permalink

Good question. Even seconds are enough for a Mayday. How many seconds, even at high speed to go from 35,000 feet to sea level?

Maybe the pilots, with the notorious lack of "feel" from controls on the Airbus and the failed pitot tubes guessed their speed was too slow and were descending to gain speed...or they may have been unconscious for some reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/02/2009

"Even seconds are enough for a Mayday."

Wrong. At that distance from land they were out of VHF range of anybody; they would have had to use HF and Selcal and that takes more time than they were willing to devote to tasks other than flying a crippled airplane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 07/03/2009
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