Iran Uprising Blogging (Sunday July 5)

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First Posted: 07- 5-09 12:48 AM   |   Updated: 08- 4-09 05:12 AM

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I'm liveblogging the latest Iran election fallout. Email me with any news or thoughts, or follow me on Twitter. Send me instant messages at nico.pitney@gmail.com or njpitney on AIM. Scroll down for news related to the front-page headlines. Local Iran time is 8 1/2 hours ahead of Eastern time.

Monday's updates are here.

11:36 PM ET -- Where in the world is Grand Ayatollah Sistani? Fareed Zakaria asks the question.


11:07 PM ET -- Did the New York Times err in report on clerical group? Late on Saturday, the New York Times published a story with this lede:

The most important group of religious leaders in Iran has called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate, an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country's clerical establishment.


The statement by the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult -- if not impossible.

The TImes has since shifted its description of the group -- they're now described as "an important group of religious leaders" -- and several readers believe the Times misidentified the group in question. Here's one such email:

I'd like to point out a couple of important issues. The "Top clerical group defies Supreme Leader" has considerable factual flaw. Seems NYT was a bit confused over the issue and the article's opening as posted on NYT site: "The most important group of religious leaders in Iran called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate on Saturday, an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country's clerical establishment. " is a gross exaggeration of facts, as I will explain.


The statement apparently came from the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum headed by Hojjat-ol-islam Musavi Tabrizi, and is not nearly as powerful as stated by NYT. It is a very loosely worded statement which, certainly does not directly declare the AN's Gov't or the elections illegitimate and, just poses the question "In light of all these discrepancies, would it be possible to accept the legitimacy of elections entirely based on the confirmation of Guardians Council? In current situation, could the government resulted from all these infractions be regarded legitimate?".

But the real powerful top clerical group that has perhaps been innocently presumed as the source of this statement, is the extreme-right Association of Teachers of Quom (a more accurate translation of the name would be: Association of Teachers of Quom's Theological School). The name of both entities in Farsi is exactly the same - except for lack of the word "Researchers" in the latter. Had the second entity actually made a statement in this context, the "KhameneiNejad" show would certainly have been over and done with.

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10:57 PM ET -- 30 years later, a family takes to the streets again. A great piece by the L.A. Times: "Three decades ago Mina, an 18-year-old who had recently graduated from high school, took to the streets with her family to protest the injustice and tyranny of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in demonstrations that led to his overthrow. Last month, the 48-year-old professor of physiology again took to the streets, again her with family, to oppose the reelection of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad amid allegations of massive vote fraud."

Definitely worth checking out the nearly identical photos published by the Times -- one from '79, one from '09 -- showing the same bridge filled with demonstrators.

10:50 PM ET -- New communications crackdown. "The head of the judiciary Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi today has issued a directive to Iranian courts allowing them to sentence anyone working with satellite television channels or Internet networking websites to up to 10 years in jail, according to several news agencies."

More here.

10:45 PM ET -- Mousavi said to be planning new political party. CNN reports:

Iranian opposition leader Mir Hossein Moussavi plans to form a new political party aimed at reining in the power of the Islamic Republic's leadership, a leading reformist newspaper reported Sunday.


Moussavi told supporters the party will be focused on upholding "the remaining principles of the constitution," according to Etemad-e Melli, a newspaper aligned with fellow opposition candidate Mehdi Karrubi.

He is expected to file papers with Iran's Interior Ministry to establish the party before hard-line incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is sworn in for a new term, the newspaper reported.

More coverage in Farsi here.

7:11 PM ET -- More Biden on Iran. Reader Jon sends along the full video from Biden's discussion of Iran on ABC's This Week. The White House really needs to clarify its position on an Israeli strike on Iran -- Biden today implied that the Obama administration would look the other way, while Joint Chiefs chairman Adm. Mike Mullen called the prospect of an attack "very destabilizing" (details of both comments are below). Some clarity is needed.


6:54 PM ET -- A hotline for journalists in danger. Reporters Without Borders post information about its hotline to report repression of journalists in Iran: "SOS Presse, a phone hotline for journalists - (33) 1 4777-7414 - is open every day round the clock and, with the help of American Express, a Reporters Without Borders official can be quickly reached."

6:41 PM ET -- Roger Cohen can't give up Iran. And he's written a beautiful column explaining why. I hope you read it all. Here's a piece:

To bear witness means being there -- and that's not free. No search engine gives you the smell of a crime, the tremor in the air, the eyes that smolder, or the cadence of a scream.


No news aggregator tells of the ravaged city exhaling in the dusk, nor summons the defiant cries that rise into the night. No miracle of technology renders the lip-drying taste of fear. No algorithm captures the hush of dignity, nor evokes the adrenalin rush of courage coalescing, nor traces the fresh raw line of a welt.

I confess that, out of Iran, I am bereft. I have been thinking about the responsibility of bearing witness. It can be singular, still. Interconnection is not presence.

A chunk of me is back in Tehran, between Enquelab (Revolution) and Azadi (Freedom), where I saw the Iranian people rise in the millions to reclaim their votes and protest the violation of their Constitution.

We journalists are supposed to move on. Most of the time, like insatiable voyeurs, we do. But once a decade or so, we get undone, as if in love, and our subject has its revenge, turning the tables and refusing to let us be.

3:12 PM ET -- "I must go home to Iran again." I'm very late in posting this op-ed, but wanted to make a point to highlight it because so many Iranian expatriates emailed it to me, saying it represented their own feelings. It's a piece by Marjane Satrapi, whose work includes the book and film Persepolis, that ran in the New York Times. Here's a portion:

Death, torture and prison are part of daily life for the youth of Iran. They are not like us, my friends and I at their age; they are not scared. They are not what we were.


They hold hands and scream: "Don't be afraid! Don't be afraid! We are together!"

They understand that no one will give them their rights; they must go get them.

They understand that unlike the generation before them -- my generation, for whom the dream was to leave Iran -- the real dream is not to leave Iran but to fight for it, to free it, to love it and to reconstruct it.

They hold hands and scream: "We will fight! We will die! But we won't be humiliated!"

They went out knowing that going to each demonstration meant signing their death warrants.

Today I read somewhere that "the velvet revolution" of Iran became the "velvet coup," with a little note of irony, but let me tell you something: This generation, with its hopes, dreams, anger and revolt, has forever changed the course of history. Nothing is going to be the same.

Read the whole piece here.

3:05 PM ET -- Mousavi details alleged election fraud evidence.

Mir Hossein Mousavi, the leading opposition candidate in last month's disputed election, released documents Saturday detailing a campaign of alleged fraud by supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that assured his reelection, while an adviser to Iran's supreme leader accused Mousavi of treason. [...]


In a 24-page document posted on his Web site, Mousavi's special committee studying election fraud accused influential Ahmadinejad supporters of handing out cash bonuses and food, increasing wages, printing millions of extra ballots and other acts in the run-up to the vote.

3:00 PM ET -- Iran shows YouTube should change its rating system. Via reader Alex, a good case is made here.

2:58 PM ET -- Iran's young rebels. Reader Michèle passes on a link to a CBC documentary released shortly before the election that's available for viewing online.

1:57 PM ET -- 'New video by Iran's best female rapper.' That's the subject line of an email I just received from Mark Levine, who has traveled through Iran learning about the country's underground metal and hip-hop scenes. Levine's been publishing a running set of messages from Iranian artists about the uprising, and yesterday he highlighted a new video "from Iranian rapper Kalameh (pseudonym) expressing frustration of Iranian youth at the pro-democracy and reform crackdown, which is increasingly a bitter culture war as well."

Full lyrics are in Mark's post -- here's the first verse:

"The greatest sin, must be killing the hope"
It was a murderer who killed my friend's hope,
the friend who just said those words.
Every step in this way was void, so was every speech and every action
Do not muddy the water!
Politics are dirty; it swallows you as down and throws you up brain washed
Behind every person, there is a hidden reason
I wanted to go live on top of a mountain, staying away from politics
But I couldn't, because it is hard to accept what they do


1:50 PM ET -- Chief U.S. general: Iran strike would be "very destabilizing." "Both a US strike on Iran, and the Islamic republic attaining nuclear weapons would be "very destabilizing," chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen said on Sunday. He said called both situations 'really, really bad outcomes,' and urged appropriate actions to prevent either eventuality."

This seems far closer to the administration's current policy than Biden's comments (below) may have indicated.

1:46 PM ET -- Iran to free another British embassy worker. "The eighth of nine British embassy employees detained by Iranian authorities is to be released later, the UK foreign secretary has said. David Miliband said 'all of our efforts are now directed' at securing the release of the man still being held - the embassy's chief political analyst."

Also, the lawyer for the last embassy employee still under investigation for subterfuge has "refuted reports that his client had been formally charged, saying he was optimistic the Iranian national would be released in the coming days."

Hossein Rassam, 44, is the top political analyst at Britain's mission in Iran, where he headed a staff of eight or nine who were all arrested on suspicion of promoting or taking part in weeks of unrest that followed the disputed reelection of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which was marred by opposition claims of vote fraud.


"I think his situation will be fixed soon," said Abdul-Samad Khoramshahi, his lawyer, who also represented jailed journalist Roxana Saberi. "I think that in the next few days I will get good news."

Khoramshahi said he visited the Revolutionary Court this morning to discuss the case of Rassam, who remains under investigation. Authorities have not yet formally lodged a complaint against him, but could decide to do so in a week.

1:17 PM ET -- Biden gives green light to Israel? "Vice President Joe Biden seemed to give Israel a green light for military action to eliminate Iran's nuclear threat, saying the U.S. 'cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do. ... If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice.'"

How much should this be chalked up to Biden's tendency to go off message?

12:56 PM ET -- Doonesbury on Iran. I'm surprised I missed this: Reader Chas notes that the widely-syndicated U.S. cartoon Doonesbury has largely been devoted to Iran over the last several weeks.


11:39 AM ET -- Creative activism: world's longest petition. A reader emails, "Here's an interesting effort that was also featured on Mousavi's Facebook page - opposition trying to create the longest petition to be featured in the Guinness World Records - the idea is to collect 90 cm long green fabric scrolls and get signatures on it to condemn Iran's Coup d'etat government and to name Ahmadinejad as the world's most despised president. The scrolls will then be collected from around the world and put together in Paris and hung from the Eiffel Tower!"

The petition site is here. Some creative projects like this will succeed, others will not. But they're an important part of making sure that attention stays focused on Iran as the stream of new information from within the country ebbs and flows.

11:37 AM ET -- Video. I'm just catching up with the news and emails from yesterday. Here's a video of people clashing in the streets with the Basij. The caption says it is from July 3.


10:25 AM ET -- Saudis ok with Israeli strike on Iran? The UK Times has published, and some other outlets are picking up, a report that the Saudis have given Israel approval to use their air space for a raid on Iran's nuclear sites.

This may very well be true, I don't know. But the UK Times has a fairly poor track record when it comes to this issue -- it's been running stories for years claiming that an Israeli strike on Iran was just around the corner. So I would look for further confirmation before getting too worried about this piece.

10:02 AM ET -- Clerical group's website blocked. The L.A. Times reports that authorities today "blocked access to the website of a pro-reform group of seminary scholars in the holy city of Qom" -- the Association of Seminary Teachers and Researchers -- "that has joined other reformist clergy in sharply criticizing last month's vote as authorities continued a crackdown against supporters of failed presidential candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi, who has alleged massive fraud."

9:51 AM ET -- Greek reporter for Washington Times finally released. "Iran's state television is reporting that a Greek journalist that had been held for more than two weeks has been released. State television Sunday quoted a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, Hasan Qashqavi, as saying that Iason Athanasiadis-Fowden had been released in, what he described as the framework of Tehran-Athens ties. Athanasiadis-Fowden of The Washington Times was arrested on or around June 19. He has dual Greek and British citizenship and was believed to be the only foreigner being held by Iranian authorities in the post-election crackdown that has swept the country."

Update: Here's the Washington Times report.

3:05 AM ET -- Iran media: Ahmadinejad wants public talks with Obama. Via reader Chas, CNN runs this report:

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he wants to engage President Obama in "negotiations" before international media, a semi-official Iranian news outlet reported on Saturday.


Speaking at a meeting of medical school deans, Ahmadinejad said Iran "will soon pursue a new round of diplomatic activity" amid a new position of strength for the Iranian government, the Iranian Student News Agency quotes him as saying.

"I will go to the United Nations and will invite Obama to negotiations," Ahmadinejad said, adding that such talks would be "in front of the international media, not a sit-down behind closed doors in order to talk about matters."

Ahmadinejad has previously claimed he wanted to debate Obama before an audience at the U.N. This offer appears to be a bit different, but still unserious.

1:31 AM ET -- Reading Independence Day in Iran. A great Iran analyst emails this article by University of Virginia Professor R. K. Ramazani. The attached note: "Ramazani is the dean of Iranian foreign policy. No one in this country knows more about Iran and its foreign policy than Prof. Ramazani (who has been a professor at UVA for almost six decades!)"

Here's an excerpt of the piece, which notes the similarities between the American and Iranian revolutionary traditions on the occasion of America's Independence Day:

This need not be a clash of alien values, of America vs. Iran.


One hundred years ago, Howard Baskerville, a 24-year old missionary educator, became Iran's American martyr while trying to help Iranians then struggling for freedom. He's still admired in Iran; in 2005, former President Mohammed Khatami unveiled a sculpture of Baskerville in Tabriz's Constitutional House museum. Before his death, Baskerville explained to skeptical friends that "The only difference between me and these people is my place of birth, and that is not a big difference."

He was right.

1:02 AM ET -- Top clerical group defies Supreme Leader, calls government illegitimate. This is very significant.

The most important group of religious leaders in Iran has called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate, an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country's clerical establishment.


The statement by the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult -- if not impossible.

"This crack in the clerical establishment and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic," said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. "Remember they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei."

Read the whole New York Times story here.

1:00 AM ET -- Great news. Tech guru Austin Heap, whose work on Iran was profiled early on by the San Francisco Chronicle, is set to release a new tool to help Iranians get online. Here's Austin's blog post about the program, called Haystack:

In the upcoming days, Daniel Colascione and I will release a new program to provide unfiltered internet access to the people of Iran. A software package for Windows, Mac and Unix systems, called Haystack, will specifically target the Iranian government's web filtering mechanisms.


Similar to Freegate, the program directed against China's "great firewall," once installed Haystack will provide completely uncensored access to the internet in Iran while simultaneously protecting the user's identity. No more Facebook blocks, no more government warning pages when you try to load Twitter, just unfiltered Internet.

The network will be supported by donated high-quality servers outside of Iran. We will be able to provide an individual user with unfettered internet access that costs the donor $0.015 to $0.0375 per month.

CLICK HERE FOR LIVE-BLOGGING ARCHIVES

Useful Resources

Translations: TehranBroadcast.com | Translate4Iran
Helping Iranians use the web: Tor Project (English & Farsi) | IranHelp.org (Farsi)
Demonstrations: Facebook | Sharearchy | WhyWeProtest
Activism: Avaaz.org | National Iranian American Council

I'm liveblogging the latest Iran election fallout. Email me with any news or thoughts, or follow me on Twitter. Send me instant messages at nico.pitney@gmail.com or njpitney on AIM. Scroll down for ne...
I'm liveblogging the latest Iran election fallout. Email me with any news or thoughts, or follow me on Twitter. Send me instant messages at nico.pitney@gmail.com or njpitney on AIM. Scroll down for ne...
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- AngieMom57 I'm a Fan of AngieMom57 68 fans permalink
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"To bear witness means being there -- and that's not free. No search engine gives you the smell of a crime, the tremor in the air, the eyes that smolder, or the cadence of a scream."

The "powers that be" are running scared, the internet has become the "Minister of Truth"; any false news is quickly rebutted as is any attempt of censoring or sequestering.

Amazing times we live in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 07/08/2009
- lastpost I'm a Fan of lastpost 27 fans permalink

Ali: What manner of mercifully deity, would visit an irrational individual on his people?
One desirous that his existence be brought into dispute?
If you possess a knowledge of how to end this, without inflicting further harm. Pray, that there is some source still willing to supply you with the necessary wisdom to do so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 AM on 07/07/2009

Agree

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 07/07/2009

The responsible thing for Obam to do would be calling for an end to the demonstrations. It's clear that the regime is not going to be over-thrown by street demonstrations and the people with the guns are not joining the protests in any significant way. No rebellion is going to succeed against a regime willing to use force unless the rebels have force as well. And we are not going to supply the demonstrators any more than we supported Hungarian dissidents back in '56 or the Kurds back in '90. This is just resulting in unecassary deaths.

Maybe Bush and the neo-cons would have jumped in there and given demonstrators the means they need to actually win in a fight against the regime (which would result in a lot of deaths and be a bad idea anyway). But Obama won't nor will the European countries. So instead of half measures we should take a clear position and ask the demonstrators to stop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 07/06/2009
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 13 fans permalink
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Biden "I want to be a Zionist" is about as important in this matter as a talking parrot.

Important concerning Islamic Republic of Iran is 92% of population are Muslim, among them also wealthy in North Tehran trashing and burning streets for 2-weeks yelling "My Way or No Way", Hugh Heffner apparently not their god yet.

More important is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2005 elected with 62% of the vote, and his nearest contender Mousavi wanting close ties with the US-Gov, despite Bush/Olmert for 4-years making "Atomics Still on Table" threats, certainly made positive Ahmadinejad "National Defence and Anti-Corruption by the Wealthy" support if anything insuring the same 62% margin or better in 2009.

Mousavi had 'Party-Monitors' in every voting-station, yet not one Monitor challenged voting irregularities (during the election). Mousavi was asked after election for written charges and proof to back them up before the Election Commision, but failed to come forward.

Iran furnished 47,000 voting-stations for 40-Million voters, meaning the 851-votes at ea-station could easily have been counted in hours, not 1-2 weeks as charged. The charge ballot-boxes arrived with ballots inside easily debunked, clear-plastic box would show ballots immediately.

Tehran a city of 7,790,000 had a large police force, that Mousavi had the wealthy-elite rioting immediately after the election, tearing up and burning garbage in streets for 2-weeks, proves the police were extremely tolerant, keeping special military seperate from the rioter's.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 07/06/2009
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Too bad IRI isn't anything near a democracy and that their clampdown of the media means we get only state pronouncements. Too bad some are gullible enough to believe that media. Too bad some use George Bush-like logic to speak power to truth- siding with IRI against the women, unemployed, the youth, and otherwise discontented in IRI who rose up as best they could against a repression.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 07/07/2009
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Has anyone heard anything new about Maziar Bahari?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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I leave with the same thing again. Now, I totally don't want to say something big is necessarily gonna happen, not speculating causality from one to another or the fact that both feature a popular revolutionary song especially among students, just a date to watch out for:

This is supposedly from the last week: http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/2009/07/protest-in-kashan-university-july-2009.html

This is from almost ten years ago (their date is off a year): www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgWqyg9fDb4

For further basic information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_Tir

Or: http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=222902

10 year anniversary: 18 Tir, 1388 AP = July, 9, 2009 CE

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 AM on 07/06/2009
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Here's Juan Cole on the Joe Biden's statements.

http://www.juancole.com/

.... I think Biden's remarks on Israel and Iran were aimed at underlining the independence of US policy-making toward Iran. He underlined twice that the US would not alter its own posture toward Iran, regardless of what others did. That he also said that the Israelis are sovereign and that the US could not stop them from launching a missile strike on Iran, is just the United Nations Charter. I.e. it is boilerplate...

So what Biden was really saying is that the Obama administration intends to engage Iran diplomatically, and that if anyone wants Iran attacked they will have to do it themselves. This is not a green light to the Israelis, who hardly need one. It is a tough message to the right wing of the Israel lobbies that the Obama administration is not going to launch any hostilities with Iran, even after the hard line power grab of three weeks ago.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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Right, I knew what he was saying, but the sound byte found its way into IRI propuhganda real quick - as I don't need to tell you, of course. Nice to see you here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 07/06/2009

Iranian hip hop? Nice! Although I didn't care for the video itself--I like to have my hip hop videos with chicks...in all manners of undress, shaking their ample backs. Yep! I'm really into black female degradation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:06 AM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 AM on 07/06/2009
- Academic I'm a Fan of Academic 239 fans permalink

Did you also ask him what he thought of the 2000 and 2004 US elections, both of which were largely considered to have been stolen in Florida and Ohio respectively?

I bet you didn't.

Professor Dr. Stanley Collymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 AM on 07/06/2009

Another apologist for the Iranian regime.

Florida 2000 or 2004 is not comperable to what's going on in Iran. Iran is an example of massive vote rigging of a totally different level. This is not a quibbile about hanging chads, absentee military votes, voter registration or a badly designed ballot. The people who try to minimize what's going on Iran by saying it's like Florida 2000 have done enough damage and only legitimized the hard liners. And yes, they actually are repeating US soundbites comparing Iran to Florida 2000 to legitimize the recent vote in Iran.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 PM on 07/06/2009
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 13 fans permalink
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Tell me Bruce, Pres-Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was known kept his majority support (62% in 2005) and also outcanvasted Mousavi in his only strong-area, large cities like Tehran.

The 47,000 vote-stations for 40-Million voters means 851 votes per-station, early results (2 to 1) would have easily signaled a major victory for Ahmadinejad. Not one of Mousavi 'Party-Monitors' (at ea-voter-station) challenged or reported irregularities (during) election.

Voter turnout was heavey at 83-85% minimum, easily accounting for greater numbers of votes counted. The Florida election Officials were literally running blockades trying to get around GOP-people bused in to prevent votes being counted, a major Fed-violation of law for which no one was arrested or stood trial.

The Florida fiasco was so illegal that the Supreme Court had to violate the Constitution by denying votes that (had not been) counted, and claiming (ollegally) Bush-Cabal as winner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 07/07/2009
- Academic I'm a Fan of Academic 239 fans permalink

Why am I not surprised by your ignorance? Two men win elections illegally in the US go on to tear up the US constitution and Bill of Rights; abrogate the rights of the country's citizens and residents and deliberately lies to its inhabitants to wage an illegal war on a sovereign country which it still occupies.

Over 1.7 million Iraqis are killed, mainly innocent civilian women, children and the elderly; 8 million are internally and externally displaced; near 5000 US soldiers and counting are killed and 30, 000 are injured and you still think that what happened in the US is fine.

Such ignorance from ill-formed oiks like you really is touching. Go get your facts right. And anyway, what's wrong in supporting Iran a country which has suffered adversely from decades of US and British interference; not forgetting the little matter of overthrowing a democratically elected government in 1953; and encouraging Saddam Hussein (remember him?) to invade Iran, amply supplied with US weapons, WMDS and chemical and biological weapons. Then he was your darling.

Sorry to disappoint you but there are far more valid opinions and understanding of the world than your rather ill-informed ones.

Get where I'm coming from?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 AM on 07/07/2009
- KDog76A I'm a Fan of KDog76A 16 fans permalink
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Bwaa! Largely considered stolen? I'm sure you were throwing rocks at the cops in Cleveland after both of those elections... give me a break... they were settled in court. At least they were investigated both prior to as well after the numbers were approved. THe guy is also out of office and we have the Power of Change in Obama.

THere is an utter lack of originality in the comment which has been posted to this "live-blog" multiple times daily since it began.

Penalty: Relevance. Lets discuss Iran and what is happening today. Unless your still upset about the size of your welfare check... hey, at least you can play on the Net every day.

http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/poor-joe-the-plumber-gets-flushed/

I've also read some of your anti-semitic stuff here on Huffpo. You need to get a grip.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 07/07/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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Mousavi To Form New Political Party: Paper

Unless Mousavi is calling his new political party "Paper" shouldn't it read:

Paper: Mousavi to Form New Political Party

?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 AM on 07/06/2009
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Roger Cohen for the Pulitzer in jornalism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 AM on 07/06/2009
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 13 fans permalink
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AbstractImp
I agree with you, the secular Zionist-Gov in control of Israel is endangering everyone in the Middle East, including many good Jewish that had lived in Palestine long before the Zionist-Gov started driving Palestinians out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 AM on 07/07/2009
- KDog76A I'm a Fan of KDog76A 16 fans permalink
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was that in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War or in the Six-Day War?

I think in both cases they were started by the Arab populations. The Arab Exodus actually seemed to have occured before Israel actually existed... 1947 maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 07/07/2009

via Khirad:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=99866&sectionid=351020104

More Biden:

Biden, however, told ABC that Israel is able to determine "what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else.''

No Israel is NOT always able to determine "what's in their interest".
Viz - Lebanon lasy year, the simultaneous Gaza deblace, the continued expansion of settlements.

Which of these proves that point?

Going against Iran right now is NOT IN THEIR INTERESTS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:55 AM on 07/06/2009
- turkeyfish I'm a Fan of turkeyfish 5 fans permalink

Biden's comments were ambiguous, but probably purposely so. Although he stated that Israel has the potential to exercise its sovereign power, he made it clear that attacking Iran clearly would not be in the interest of the US and Israel may not be able to count on US military support in the event it does so. Likewise, he signaled to the Iranians that the US can not prevent Israel from doing so, implying that they need to take into account of what the Knesset thinks as well in pursuing its policy of nuclear weapons development.

That Biden even brought up the topic was probably not the best politic, but perhaps quinessential Biden. However, he hardly stated anything other than what all parties already know to be the facts.

As subsequently pointed out by Joint Chief Mullen, any military efforts on either side at this point would be extremely destabilizing. You might think, with the world economy and the vitality of the planet itself already in a precarious and perilous state, world "leaders" would seriously consider if tossing around nuclear warheads would dramatically improve their current political and ecological predicament. You might think that bloggers would consider this as well, since should the warheads go off, its not as if anyone can turn of the video/TV and go back to a comfortable sleep. Given the effect of electromagentic pulse, if not sober reality itself, this would simply not be possible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 AM on 07/06/2009
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 13 fans permalink
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The Zionist-Gov just recently attacked an American vessel in Internatio­nal-waters off the coast of Gaza (Palestine), they took Americans off the boat and took them to Israel where they are now apparently imprisoned.

The vessel was carrying materials already cleared as aid much needed by Gaza citizens. What is worrisome, is that the Zionist-Gov may have the American citizens in their Facility-1391, where they torture people and very likely some die as a result.

If a single American is harmed by these people, I believe it should be taken as an act of war. These loonies need to be brought under control, before they begin WWIII.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 AM on 07/07/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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A rosy reading from current Great Sa.tan number one:

However, Tehran's current self-absorption may have some dividend for Mr Obama, who, on 4 July, got an exceptionally warm Independence Day message from President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, with a verbal invitation to visit Damascus.

Syria has a long-standing strategic alliance with non-Arab Iran, mainly based on shared hostility to their mutual neighbour Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

But after four years of tension, Washington is sending an ambassador back to Damascus and relations are slowly warming.

Syria is not going to break with Tehran in a hurry. But chaos in Iran would certainly make it easier for Damascus to slip quietly into other relationships.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8134484.stm?ad=1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 AM on 07/06/2009

Muslim societies in general have become burdened with social-cultural garbage. There's a lot of it in the west too but not to that degree perhaps. So there are lot of illogical restriction s in what you can do and what you cannot do which have nothing to do with religion. Also, many Muslim societies put a social confines on things and life in general is supposed to be depressed and restricted to what the society deems approproiate instead of what the religion deems appropriate. I would be happy to see the Reformists take over Iran. I used to be pretty conservative in my thoughts but my life experiences tell that the conservatives have nothing to offer to anyone socially even though politically they may be more organized be better able to govern. We need to keep supporting the reformists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 AM on 07/06/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 70 fans permalink
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I'd agree with you except that reformists has for some time come to mean 'privatisers of public assets'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 07/06/2009
- mirza I'm a Fan of mirza 10 fans permalink

The NYT needs to print a correction

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 AM on 07/06/2009
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Probably. It seems though that it was an easy mistake to make.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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As soon as I read the name they gave I googled it. You would of thought they had better methods at their disposal than I.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 AM on 07/06/2009
- poco767c I'm a Fan of poco767c 337 fans permalink
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Agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:58 AM on 07/06/2009
- f0rTyLeGz I'm a Fan of f0rTyLeGz 4 fans permalink
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Very disappointing. I thought the story was huge, and wondered why it had so little traction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 AM on 07/06/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 70 fans permalink
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It seemed odd to me at the time too, since I do know that while debate does take place amongst the clerical establishment, the Scholars of Qom would never come out with such a confrontionary statement, but work behind the scenes.
Just the NYT becoming as horrible as the London Times, I guess.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 07/06/2009
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 13 fans permalink
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One of the biggest mistakes an American could make, is believe anything published in US Corp-Media.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 07/07/2009
- TenThings I'm a Fan of TenThings 3 fans permalink
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He's going to call his political party, PAPER?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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One was Kalimeh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 07/06/2009
- studly1 I'm a Fan of studly1 3 fans permalink
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I think they mean that was according to their source, a news'paper'.

And yes, I believe owned a newspaper called "Kalameh" = "Word"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 AM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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I was just playing along. I have no idea what they were talking about. Thanks for overlooking my typo though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 AM on 07/06/2009
- Khirad I'm a Fan of Khirad 247 fans permalink
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Joke is on me, I hadn't seen the headline, "Mousavi To Form New Political Party: Paper"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 AM on 07/06/2009
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