Autistic Marine's Case Raises Questions On Recruiting Practices

LA Times:

A few days after he arrived at boot camp here, Joshua Fry no longer wanted to be a Marine. He was confused by the orders drill instructors shouted at him. He was caught stealing peanut butter from the chow hall. He urinated in his canteen. He talked back to the drill instructors. He refused to shave.

Read the whole story: LA Times

Comments

[ICorpsDoc]

The military does not have access to all your medical records when you enlist. They may ask for more if they see something amiss but for the most part they will know about the doctors and hospital stays that you tell them about.

Just think of the logistics of this. How many different doctors has an average 22 year old seen? How many doctors visits? In how many different states? And who would be going through all these records from all of these recruits?

I spent several years offering advice on forums where young Marines and Docs to be came for advice about joining

In general the first most popular question is how do I become a Recon/SEAL Sniper.

And the 2nd is how do I join without telling the whole truth to the recruiter. Medical records , my drug use, my convictions, etc.

The 3rd sadly has to do with...."my recruiter wants me not to admit to something" In many cases its drug use or DX
I

The recruiters are under intense pressure to get results. Not getting results can be career slowing. But for the most part they get in young folks who perform well under stress. Kids who do a fine job. Some of these good performers in fact had a history of drug use or a DX of asthma as a kid etc and never told the recruiter.

There are unethical recruiters out there. There are recruits that lie.

[thinkingwomanmillstone]

Wake up and smell the coffee America. The autism rate in Nj is one in sixty boys. There is now a push to educate these children(not a good one mind you) but what is forgotten is that these children grow up. There is no emphasis on what happens to them after they are grown. My daughter worked in the public defender's office and has seen autistic clients held in contempt for not making eye contact. Many of these individuals could be tax paying contributing member of society with just a little help and acceptance. Of course with the recession, this is harder than ever. I cannot blame employers for hiring more able employees. However, these employees often become bored with their low paying entry level job and leave. The disabled employee tend to learn their jobs and stay with it. In any event, these adults are here and are our responsiblity to deal with....not by abusing them in the military.

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

It's nice to know where my government rates me, heirarchically

[sushi27]

Let me get this straight - we throw gay men, who are totally qualified and healthy, out of the military - instead we are taking criminals and the mentally disabled. Then, when they cannot comprehend what is expected of them we lock them up and move to "court martial" and dishonorably discharge them???

OMG, Bush policies are still destroying our country - when will it end.

[Artemis34]

You forgot we're also taking white supremacists now and training them to be effective killers.

Top 10 Reasons to Repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
http://www.sldn.org/pages/top-10-reasons-to-repeal-dont-ask-dont-tell

Maybe this should be reason number 11!

[Pauper]

Good gracious - when the flak starts to fly I sure want to have my life depending on someone with autism!!!

The few, the proud, the Marines (and the autistic)!!!!

[LaurieAnn]

Your attempt at humor is lacking here. We should have some empathy for Mr. Fry, not make jokes at the expense of people who have autism.

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

Let's fire YOU from your job and give it to this individual and we'll see how much compassion you have for him then

[MSgt USAF retired]

This may have been a tragedy that could have been avoided had we returned to the DRAFT.

It is time to bring back a "FAIR" DRAFT

1 point if your Great Grand Father did not serve in the Civil War/WW2/Korea
1 point if your Grand Father did not serve WW2/Korea/Vietnam
1 Point if your Father did not serve... period.

3 points if you have no college.
5 points if you live in a high unemployment area (This allows for less employment competition)
7 points if you have a criminal record
10 points if you are homosexual, muslim faith oriented, or a conscientious objector.

If you have 10 points or more your name goes into a system to draw from... Class A qualified

If you have atleast 7 points... Class B qualified

If you have atleast 3 points... Class C qualified

You can turn down your citizenship and leave for a country like Mexico, Canada, or France. We will spend the money to ship you one way with no return... or you can do four years public service and avoid 2 years military service. If you balk at the 4 years of public service you promptly go to jail for 2 years and wear a purple uniform identifying your status as a draft dodger.

[Artemis34]

Fair draft would be everyone. Who cares what your ancestors did?

[skippypicasso]

You know what, that purple uniform idea reminds me of some yellow six-pointed stars I've seen somewhere.

[MrAverage]

Well I agree this point system is kind of wacky (how do I know what my great grandfather did?) But I think the essence of the point is true. This never would have happened if there was a draft. In fact, both conflicts would probably be over by now if there was a draft.

[LeeCalif]

Ah, a few good men ................... and then there is the Marines.

[Artemis34]

Reminds me of McNamara's 100,000

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/05/29/mcnamara/index.html

"...the most shameful brainstorms of the Vietnam War's masterminds -- including a little-known recruitment program that turned the mentally and physically deficient into cannon fodder...

Under his [McNamara's] direction, an alternative army was systematically recruited from the ranks of those who had previously been rejected for failing to meet the armed services' physical and mental requirements. Recruiters swept through urban ghettos and Southern rural back roads, even taking at least one youth with an I.Q. of 62."

I remember having people on active duty from McNamara's 100,000 who couldn't even read or write. In the military, they presented a danger to themselves and their comrades.

This is a disgrace.

[LaurieAnn]

I wouldn't be surprised if mentally or developmentally disabled soldiers are sent to the front lines with the express thought that they will be dispatched through enemy or friendly fire.

[avchavis]

This is just sad!

[citizensrus]

Recruiters are under pressure.

[JackRusselTerrier]

Aren't we all. Sorry excuse.

[Christopher Millsap]

Recruiters are often drafted from other career fields and given the ultimatum of recruiting X amount of bodies or face dismissal. Don't be hasty in blaming the recruiter when it is the system that is the problem to begin with. Is it ethical to recruit an individual with autism? No, but until the expectations on our recruiters are set in a more realistic tone we can expect more of these stories.

[bowthai]

Very true about the state of the recruiting system. Nevertheless they are entrusted with a job with certain guidelines. Just as we would take the heat for cutting corners in our own jobs, regardless of the system, so too must those recruiters who violate their own codes.

[CydMiller]

A Marine judge has kept this confused child in the brig for 1 year and has rejected the premise that he is not responsible for his actions when his relative is legally required to sign any contracts he enters?

He should be released immediately before the military has another suicide on their hands.

[citizensrus]

This is horribly tragic. Shame on this judge.

[kraftmatic]

He's not a child, he's 21.

[hunt49]

Which under special education law still qualifies him to be in high school, if the school & parent team deem it appropriate.

So yes, child. Developmentally disabled child. He belongs in a group home getting vocational rehab services paired with counseling, to let him hold a steady job in society.

He belongs nowhere near the armed services. Neither does the recruiter that pulled this. That's who ought to be under court-martial and locked up.

[x004Ronin]

"According to court documents, Fry's recruiter knew he was autistic. The Marine Corps is investigating the recruiter's conduct."

This is not how a great country behaves. If our recruitment situation really is that dire, the country should make a choice: Draft or withdrawal. If support for a war disappears when people might have to send their own children to war, it's probably not a well-justified war.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

A great country should presume that a person is innocent unless proven guity.

Our country generally follows that principle.

The article from the MSM is artfully written. It doesn't say, without qualification, that "Fry's recruiter knew he was autistic."

It doesn't claim that the recruiter admitted that he knew that Fry was autistic. Obviously, if that was true, the author would have included that information. He didn't.

Likewise, the article doesn't claim that a court found that "Fry's recruiter knew he was autistic." It's also obvious that if that was true, the author would have included that as well. Again, he didn't.

As indicated in the article, the situation is one in which a deserter was arrested for desertion and possession of child pornography. The Marine Corps now wants to prosecute him for fraudulent enlistment. Also as indicated in the article, the charge is based on Fry not telling his recruiter he received counseling for an addiction to child pornography.

He picked the wrong branch of the service to be addicted to child pornography. Now he's in the brig based upon a conviction other than fraudulent enlistment and he doesn't want to be prosecuted further. In fact, he wants to go home.

Someone filed papers with the court saying that "Fry's recruiter knew he was autistic." The phrase is preceded with the words, ""According to court documents." Who filed the papers?

The judge didn't do so, nor did a JAG officer.

Who did it?

Fry's attorney.

[lianmolive]

and by your own argument, you wouldn't be able to conclude that Fry was fraudulent in enlisting.

[Artemis34]

Service members relinquish their rights upon enlistment.

[skippypicasso]

Don't the US Marines have access to medical/legal records of potential enlistees prior to basic training? Doesn't the United States Marine Corps even bother with cursory background checks?

[Realityblah]

The grandmother told the recruiter that he was autistic. Please read on.

Case stirs military recruiting questions
Autistic man in brig, facing court-martial
By Rick Rogers
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
2:00 a.m. June 1, 2009

"The center, where Fry graduated from high school, treats psychiatric, emotional and behavioral problems in people ages 8 to 21.

At one point, Studenka wrote, Teson called the Fry home in Orange County because he didn't know that Fry had been transferred to Devereux. Studenka said Mary Beth Fry answered the phone and told Teson that her grandson is autistic and not capable of becoming a Marine.

By late 2007, Joshua Fry had left Devereux and was living in a group home in Irvine for mentally disabled adults.

On Jan. 7, 2008, he enlisted in the Marine Corps with Teson. On April 11 that year, Fry graduated from boot camp with Platoon 1021, Company B.

He became perhaps the first autistic Marine in 233 years of Marine Corps history."

[yankee452]

As a former Marine, I am angry and ashamed.

This is just plain wrong, and the recruiter should be charged and locked away in the brig for many many years.

On one hand its comforting that Joshua Fry did manage to become a Marine in his own right, but the day to day grind in the infantry ( and military life in general ) will be one step too far for him.

The Corps must let him go home with his honor and dignity in tact.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

"The Corps must let him go home with his honor and dignity in tact."

According to the article, the Marine Corps is prosecuting him for fraudulent enlistment and specificially failing to inform the recruiter that he had received counseling for an addiction to child pornography.

When they arrested him for desertion (or UA), he had child pornography in his possession. That's now being held in evidence.

Now you want the Corps to send him home.

Should they also send his child pornography with him?

[MaryanneAZ]

The porn is a separate issue from being in the Marines and the charges against him. Many autistic people, while physically functioning adults with normal hormones, function at a child's level. It is not surprising that an autistic adult would see nothing unusual in being fascinated with other children. Couple that with normal hormones and you have your alleged child porn interest. Autistic people do not have the same social barriers that the rest of us do. They just do not get it. It is part of what is wrong with them. Talk therapy and setting rules often helps with this inappropriate behavior. It works for self-satisfaction sessions as well (rule: you can only do that in private). My son has done really well with rules and functions fairly appropriately in most circumstances.

[JackRusselTerrier]

Well said. And to all the Marines who spoke up on this issue: it is gratifying to know you're not all as foolish as this recruiter and some others that are exposed as accomplices in this article.

[juanjo]

Let me get this straight. You can be a white supremacist and enlist in the military where you will be trained how to kill people efficiently. You can be autistic and bipolar and enlist in the military where you are not likely to succeed. But if you are an out gay man or lesbian who is proficient in languages or have other talents the military disparately needs, forget it.

[asta1968]

Staggering logic isn't it?

[Sarijj]

I was just going to say something close to this. Can someone explain the logic of this? We need quality people in our military, what they do behind close doors be damned!

[Artemis34]

No. Because it is illogical.