Finally! Awesome Answers To Your Climate Bill Questions

washingtonpost.com:

The climate bill approved by the House last month started out as an idea -- fight global warming -- and wound up looking like an unabridged dictionary.

Read the whole story: washingtonpost.com

Comments

[MGhamma]

WWW.realclimate.org, and WWW.skepticalscience.com. Two websites where the actual science is discussed. Note how few deniers comment on those sites. They end up running away in embarassment after their "arguements" get ripped to shreds.

[guinganbresil]

If you like gruesom details...

http://www.climateaudit.org

[FormerReaganite]

I agree that the climate bill is flawed. It is flawed because it is simply too-little­-too-late. What we need to be doing is a complete phase out of fossil fuel burning altogether. But at least this is a start. That is, because if nothing is done, the energy crisis will only get worse. We must steer away from CO2-generating power and gradually shift toward renewable power sources. Wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, etc

Consider the energy (oil) "shockwaves" which started in the early 70s. These continue to happen, and those shockwaves are getting more frequent. Each wave has been followed by a recession. (Look at the stats on this) If we start to veer away from *ever-more expensive* CO2-producing power sources, we can be free of these violently-­fluctuatin­g, recession-producing oil shocks. Besides all of that, "burning stuff to make energy" is going to become an outdated practice soon.

[gladiator777]

As of today there is no change in the world wide temperature, it actually went down a bit, Gore the bore said we'd be burning by now! you equate any changes that occur on earth now to humans...which is beyond ridiculous and absurd....

How is it that earth has changed so radically since its been around when there were no humans? If we weren't here, the earth would still warm up and cool down all by itself, what do you not understand about that? Yet when anything happens now you blame it all on humans, and never ever mention the natural component, which dwarfs us and makes what little CO2 we contribute to the air meaningless...

if we were really in for a disaster scenario, we'd be seeing higher temperatures now, as these so called bozos have been saying, but after years of lies and more lies, finally the real TRUTH is getting out, nothing is really changing......

Also, the sun has no sunspots as of right now, guess what caused the last cooling cycle? A cooler sun, we should have a very active sun right now, very active, scientists are baffled, not worried but baffled, we could be in for much colder years ahead of the sun doesn't get more active, more evidence of how much of an impact the sun has on us, and more evidence how little impact we humans have....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/03/uah-global-temperature-anomaly-for-june-09-zero/

Bwahahahah­ahahahaaha­hah

[FormerReaganite]

"if we were really in for a disaster scenario, we'd be seeing higher temperatures now, as these so called bozos have been saying, but after years of lies and more lies, finally the real TRUTH is getting out, nothing is really changing......"

Here you go, Mr Bwahahahah­ahahahaaha­hah. Two very important reasons we are not cooking yet:

(A) Deep Solar Minimum
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum.htm

(B) Much volcanic activity over the past decade spewing cooling-effect particulates
Soufrière Hills Volcano (Montserrat)
Mount Etna (Sicily)
Mount Redoubt (Alaska)
Fourpeaked Mountain (Alaska)
Cleveland Volcano (Alaska)
Others (Archived Volcanic Events of Interest)
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/activity/archive/index.php

Solar radiation reduction from volcanic eruptions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3aMauna_Loa_atmospheric_transmission.png

Volcanoes of the world
http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/

[MGhamma]

Global temps have been normal for 1 month. Thats it? Thats all you got?

[Samcat604]

"Under President Obama's initial proposal, the federal government would have auctioned off 100 percent of the emission allowances under the cap ... During the program's first 10 years, a full auction could have pumped an extra $713 billion in revenue into the Treasury."

This is precisely why this bill is bad. It does NOTHING except take taxpayers money and shuffle to the gov't to spend how they see fit.

More Government revenue = taking your money = more oppressive government = less freedom.

[gladiator777]

You know how you can tell global warming is a hoax....look at how many posts there are in the green category..­......hard­ly any at all....if people really thought the world was going to end you think they'd be a little bit more interested in the subject...but the majority knows its a hoax....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/03/uah-global-temperature-anomaly-for-june-09-zero/

Bwahahahah­ahahahaaha­hah

[SonofLiberty1]

Here's a FACT to chew on:

If we didn't have an atmosphere, everything would freeze on Earth.
Atmospheres have the characteristic of holding heat in and that is called the Greenhouse Effect.
Again, it's the very reason we have life on this planet.

What happens when you have LESS of an atmosphere?

It's colder.

What happens when you have MORE of an atmosphere?

Its WARMER.

Look at Mars and Venus.

Mars has a very thin atmosphere and it's COLD.

Venus has an atmosphere 90 times as dense as ours.

It's made up chiefly of Carbon Dioxide, not much sunlight reaches it's surface because of the CLOUDS....which is why it is so very bright in the morning sky.

The temperature on both the day and night sides of Venus is

NINE HUNDRED DEGREES FARENHEIT...

THE MELTING POINT OF LEAD!

Now, what are we doing?

Creating a denser atmosphere.

What will happen?

IT WILL GET WARMER.

I just love it when people who know NOTHING about Astronomy claim to be

'EXPERTS"

[Samcat604]

Did you forget the fact that Venus is 40 million km closer to the sun and Mars is 80 million km farther from the sun than Earth is?

You are also forgetting Venus has no Carbon cycle and ~95% of the atmosphere is CO2. On Earth, CO2 is a 0.038%. Even doubling that number and you are still nowhere near where Venus is.

[gladiator777]

Mars used to have lakes and oceans and rivers, yet is was still warm enough to have liquid water....and it was very far away from earth...

[Jamie Kowalski]

Did you forget the fact that Mercury is much closer to the sun than Venus, yet Venus is hotter?

[FormerReaganite]

Atmospheric density has to do with planetary size. A larger planet (earth) has a denser atmosphere than a smaller planet (Mars) due to Earth's higher gravity. Gravity is what holds gases near a planet's surface. Our very small Moon has such a small gravitational pull it cannot hold on to hardly any gases at all. Hence no atmosphere. Now consider massive Jupiter, with it's incredibly dense atmosphere (dense but cold)

Venus' atmosphere is incredibly dense probably due to the high surface temperature and its ability to melt and vaporize certain salts as well as sulfuric acid, etc (Temperatures are too high for much of this matter to condense out of gaseous form; hence the high gas density)

[Agent420]

Titan has a pretty dense atmosphere.

[MGhamma]

I wasn't aware that we were discussing Astronomy

[RomeoMD25]

From the Movie Inconvenient truth

More evidence has popped up that demonstrates how the infamous hockey stick graph displayed to the world is forged. New details have emerged that show the Medieval Warm Period, which had temperatures higher than today, were eliminated from the graph. Also, evidence is now available that shows tree ring samples were hand-picked to make the most dramatic example of how the planet is warming.

More and more people are actually starting to listen to the FACTS and deciding that it makes no sense whatsoever.
They are starting to question it. Well, they can't have THAT. Why? Because they can't win an intelligent fact and science based argument.
They can not win because there is NO real Science in it. There are no PROVABLE facts to back up what they say.

[instagladiator]

Very well said, thank you.
I became wary of Al Gore's "hard charging theory" that global warming was man-made when I reflected back when he was VP and how that administration, with little to no deliberation, refused to join the Kyoto Agreement. Why?
I saw his film, nice effects and all, but as you mentioned, IS NOT backed up by any solid data whatsoever. While the internet IS still free to use to research, I've done just that and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this warming period is "natural" and is a result of the suns activity. If this was man-made, how is it that Mars, Jupiter and some of the other planets are also warming?
And in some parts of the globe there are cooling temperatures, this is nature at work, nothing more.

[gladiator777]

Ya i read about the other planets warming up, they have any idea why that's taking place yet? We know so little still about everything.......

[mioffe]

Dear RomeoMD25 & instagladiator real scientists help Al Gore to make his vision of GW. They have right to make mistakes and no need to be afraid put their ideas in scientific magazines.
In my opinion Al Gore is honest man, but he is politician. He tried GW agenda for Presidential race in 1988, he wrote very interesting book "Earth in the balance", 1992.
He is responsible for bringing to science the same rules as in politic, where majority is always winning.
In science one person opinion is more important, than opinion of majority.
DEBATE IS OVER IS SLOGAN OF AL GORE.
We no need follow his direction and look more carefully on mankind activities:
Increasing amount of GHG,
Changing reflection of direct sun radiation, by tilling, building the roads, cities, by soot, etc.
Changing evaporation of water by deforestation, growing crops, etc
Changing convection forces, power of winds and their directions on all continents, and many others things, which must be discussed and be free from politic.

For political agenda GHG alone is very powerful direction-reduce, reuse, recycle.
At the same time we can't allow to throw them away, they are still trapped IR radiation.

[SonofLiberty1]

Here's a FACT to chew on:

If we didn't have an atmosphere, everything would freeze on Earth.
Atmospheres have the characteristic of holding heat in and that is called the Greenhouse Effect.
Again, it's the very reason we have life on this planet.

What happens when you have LESS of an atmosphere?

It's colder.

What happens when you have MORE of an atmosphere?

Its WARMER.

Look at Mars and Venus.

Mars has a very thin atmosphere and it's COLD.

Venus has an atmosphere 90 times as dense as ours.

It's made up chiefly of Carbon Dioxide, not much sunlight reaches it's surface because of the CLOUDS....which is why it is so very bright in the morning sky.

The temperature on both the day and night sides of Venus is

NINE HUNDRED DEGREES FARENHEIT...

THE MELTING POINT OF LEAD!

Now, what are we doing?

Creating a denser atmosphere.

What will happen?

IT WILL GET WARMER.

I just love it when people who know NOTHING about Astronomy claim to be

'EXPERTS"

[mioffe]

Dear SonofLiberty1, in addition to your knowledge of Astronomy, please start to think about properties of water, evaporation, condensation, clouds and their abilities to reflect direct sun radiation and I am sure that you have enough knowledge to say-properties of water on the Earth play more significant role than all GHG including carbon dioxide.
MAYBE YOU WILL REPEAT, THAT WE MUST REEVALUATE SCIENCE OF GLOBAL WARMING, FREE IT FROM POLITIC.
WE COULD BE ENERGY INDEPENDENT, HAVE 100% OF EMPLOYMENT AND HEALTH INSURANCE, BECAUSE REAL FIGHTING GLOBAL WARMING IS VERY PROFITABLE BUSINESS.
CAP AND TRADE, SOLAR CELLS, WIND, NUCLEAR ARE DISASTER FOR ECONOMY AND ENVIRONMENT.

[MGhamma]

Classic example of projection. Thanx romeo. ( In the most recent polls on global warming,75% of americans believe steps should be taken to reduce CO2 emissions).

[FormerReaganite]

You should back up what you say. (references please)

[MGhamma]

Try googling "75% polled,global warming". It's amazing how quickly references can be found.

[RomeoMD25]

If CO2 were a pollutant, then why would our US submarines allow an environmental concentration of this
very same gas in the neighborhood of 8,000 ppm? It is unconscionable that
our government is demanding that we try to regulate the concentration of this gas in the atmosphere,
knowing full well that concentrations more than 20 times that amount produce absolutely no ill effects on American sailors.

[gladiator777]

They know we'll be fine, they just want to control us through this hoax, basically a marxist movement in full force.

Progressives, destroying freedoms, economies and humanity since 1848.

[FormerReaganite]

Watch the movie Apollo 13

[instagladiator]

Entertainment value?

[SonofLiberty1]

Probably wouldn't help much...they would say it was a "Conspiracy"

[gladiator777]

Hmmm...temperature down 1 degree since the inconvenient lie came out.....shouldn't we be burned to a crisp by now?

[Virgil Kane]

Yeah and Florida and San Fransisco are supposed to be underwater too...

[gladiator777]

Hmmm...temperature down 1 degree since the inconvenient lie came out.....well, I thought gore the bore said we'd all be dead and burnt to a crisp now?

[FormerReaganite]

"CO2 is a... non-toxic gas."

That means we can live on Mars.

[fumes]

you're right to be scared of CO2:

''In addition to air quality, a buildup of carbon dioxide gas can also effect your health. Studies have shown high CO2 concentrations directly effect your ability to concentrate on tasks. If you find yourself sleepy in the office, it may be a buildup of CO2!''

from: CO2meter.com

[Pquilson]

Well, that sheds new light on the election most recently held in the US!

[gladiator777]

oxygen is a bad gas also in high concentrations, your insides will begin to rust.....

[fumes]

at a guess..

formerreaganite took his anti-oxidant today..

and totally forgot to take his anti-CO2.

[RomeoMD25]

Carbon dioxide, a benign, life giving molecule has been miscast by a world wide political movement to be an environmental hazard in what
will soon be discovered to be the hoax of the century. This molecule, CO2 is vital to all life on earth. It is exhaled by all living
things and even comes from nocturnal emissions by plants. It forms the bubbles in your soda, wine and beer.

[RomeoMD25]

Exxon Mobile Funded latest climate bill(interesting)

Industries and individual companies with a stake in the landmark House climate and energy bill poured money into lobbying early this year

Exxon Mobil Corp. spent the most within that group, paying $9.3 million on lobbying the first quarter of this year.
Last year the company spent $29 million, its highest level ever.

Carbon and CO2 (carbon dioxide) are fundamental for all life on Earth. CO2 is a colorless, odorless, non-toxic gas.

[FormerReaganite]

"Exxon Mobile Funded latest climate bill(interesting)"

Maybe that's why it is so watered-down. Interesting point.

[RomeoMD25]

less than 2/1,000 of all CO2 is produced by human activity. So even if we wiped out every car,
power plant, jet liner, and human being from the face of the earth, there would be no noticeable effect on global CO2 levels.

The most important greenhouse gas by far is water vapor, which evaporates from oceans, lakes and rivers.
Water vapor accounts for up to 90% of the earth's greenhouse effect.

[Photofarm]

There is nothing good written in those 1400 pages. It should be destroyed and never ever brought up for debate again.

[retreadite]

This bill is a joke, tell your representatives. So now Goldman Sachs and the rest of Wall Street will be trading these "right to pollute" coupons? Only those coupons we haven't given away? HUGE SCAM.

[watchTVgetSTUPID]

A majority of both Republicans (56%) and adults not affiliated with either major political party (52%) think the bill will hurt the economy. Among Democrats, however, 30% say it will help the economy, 23% that it will hurt and 21% say it will have no impact.

Obama is hammering another nail in America's economic coffin.

[FormerReaganite]

The thing is, most Republicans do not have a clue as to how the economy works anyway.

[watchTVgetSTUPID]

Independents strongly opposed to the bill outnumber Republicans strongly opposed to the bill. Obama is sacriicing his support among independents by forcing this pork boimb down our throats.

While 20% of Democrats strongly favor the bill, 37% of Republicans and 38% of unaffiliateds strongly oppose it.