Atheists Sue To Keep 'In God We Trust' Off Capitol Visitor Center

McClatchy:

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Read the whole story: McClatchy

Comments

[BigBagel]

Finally I think we can all agree that this is no big deal. Thanks for the discussion.

[DaveyDavey]

Seems like a single shred of evidence for the existence of God would be required before we tack his name all over our buildings.

[Hirnlego]

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."
[Benjamin Franklin from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728]

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."
[Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character — cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust."
— Thomas Jefferson

I do not believe that any type of religion should ever be introduced into the public schools of the United States.
Thomas Edison

"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God."
[Thomas Alva Edison, "Columbian Magazine"]

"All Bibles are man-made."
Thomas Edison

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
Thomas Paine

[Hirnlego]

"Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error." Thomas Jefferson

"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." - Thomas Jefferson

"The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight, and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subdivision of the duperies on which they live."
- Thomas Jefferson

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

[Gusto]

I will trust in a god as soon as it can proved that there is one - son far nada.

People who knock on my door to convice me to believe, are in my opinion asking for it.


Prove it, christians!

[JayDDrew]

We can't. Thus, we try to shove it down non-believers' throats.
The vast majority of believers refuse to believe religion is illogic. It just shows you how poor their faith is, but they would never admit that either.

[ab73]

The irrefutable logic of Peter O'Toole in "The Ruling Class"

Lady Claire Gurney:

How do you know you're God?

Jack Arnold Alexander Tancred Gurney, 14th Earl of Gurney:

Simple. When I pray to Him, I find I am talking to myself

[RuinedSaint]

Sounds like an excellent film... Just added that to my NetFlix list.

[ab73]

Its O'Toole at his most lordly.

[gleeold]

Keep it to yourself, atheists, let the voice of majority heard, let the tradition prevail,..

Rome empire and was destroyed by atheists, we will not allow this happen in USA..

Respect each others.

[paganmist]

How can you say "Keep it to yourself, atheists" and "Respect each other" at the same time?

Respect has already been defined in this country, through the first amendment.

We ALL have the right to free speech, not just the majority. No one has to "keep it to themselves", because USA says so.

If you really love USA, you'd support the Constitution, and allow everyone to have free speech - not just yourself.

[RuinedSaint]

"Rome empire and was destroyed by atheists..."

Rome converted to Christiainity. Learn your history.

[RuinedSaint]

"let the tradition prevail,..."

Yes, let's keep following tradition; repeal women's vote, repeal the civil rights movement, repeal the Immancipation Proclaimation. Let's just follow tradition; don't allow society to evolve.

[JayDDrew]

Looks like we're on the same page!

[jweider]

I like the old roman tradition of using xtians as cat food. can we let that tradition prevail?

[JayDDrew]

Sure, let's let tradition prevail. Let's take away the rights of women and minorities to vote. Let's put blacks back out in the cotton fields. Let's send women home from work. Throw away those calculators and computers and pick up your abacus! Get rid of credit cards and re-open debtors' prisons. Finally, let's swear our allegiance to the British throne!

[ab73]

"the majority heard"

Is that a herd of lowing cattle?

[ManiDeli]

I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death. George Carlin

[JayDDrew]

Never heard that, that's a good one! If organized religion were doing what it's suppose to, helping the poor, the sick, the down-trodden, the government wouldn't be as busy as it is doing those things. Instead, they're building bigger churches, statues and monuments, and pimping out the Popemobiles and homes of the religious leaders.
How many poor children could have gotten a meal or two with that $100,000?

[JayDDrew]

Some information:

Hallucination: 1. the perception of somebody or something that is really not there. (2) something that somebody imagines seeing, hearing or otherwise sensing when it is not present or actually not occurring at the time.

Schizophrenia: a psychotic disorder that causes a patient to lose touch with reality.

Faith: belief or trust; belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof.

If we want to have our faiths and beliefs, that's fine. But let's not push the illogical or what could be considered the hallucinations or even medical disorders of others in the past down the throats of non-believers. And particularly, let's not waste everyone's money doing the same!

[paganmist]

I agree entirely. While I don't believe in God, I do believe in something - a universal "moral arc" you might call it - that establishes objectively that Good and Evil exists. I think this something believes, oh say, that r((ape is always evil, and helping those in need is always good.

I have no logical proof that this thing exists, just a gut feeling. And I'm fine with that. I don't expect anyone else to believe me or share that belief. In fact, I could be wrong. I realize that.

I'm glad to live in a country where I can't be killed for believing what I believe. And it's okay if people mock me - my boyfriend kinda does - because my belief in this Universal Good feels real and right to me. It works for ME. And that's all that matters.

I don't understand why other people can't just be okay with their beliefs working for THEM. Why must they try to push their beliefs on other people?

[JayDDrew]

Human fraility: hiding their own internal weaknesses and doubts by trying to dominate others.

[gleeold]

We should respect each other. respect the tradition that prevail years and years, Let the voice of majority be heard. You see beautiful flowers, but you also see ugly flowers in the wild too. From either points of view, let it be.
We need this tradition and respect, be it truth or not.
The atheists destroyed the Rome Empire.we should not let this happen in America.

[RuinedSaint]

"respect the tradition that prevail years and years"

"In God We Trust" was a change in tradition; for 170 years prior to implementing that, our motto was "E Plurubus Unum".

Atheism didn't destroy Rome; converting to Christianity did.

[paganmist]

Slavery was a tradition that prevailed for years and years, and the majority supported slavery. Should we have "kept it to ourselves" then, because that would have somehow been respectful?

Respectful to WHOM? It was respectful to the slaveowners, but not to the slaves, so the tradition needed to be changed.

Sometimes traditions need to be changed, because they are only respectful to some, not to all.

[jweider]

The only part Atheists had in destroying the Roman Empire was in allowing the Christians to take control. You are right we shouldn't allow this to happen in America.

[yemaya]

continued.. In the early colonies, the founders established whatever religion they were at the time, as the colonie's official religion. Other colonies had their official religion and so forth. Legally it was a nightmare and thus the separation of church and state idea was born. Free to practice whatever religion you choose, but keep it out of the government. For the modern world this means If the government is spending tax payer dollars; in this case 100K, to engrave a religious reference on a govt. building, it is against the constitution. If our tax dollars are used to promote any body's religion it is against the constitution. I wonder how many of the religious among us would be ok w/this if our country's majority religion was Islamic. How would you feel about In Allah we trust? or In Buddha we trust? In The Flying Spaghetti Monster, we trust.

[JayDDrew]

We don't really trust the Flying Spaghetti Monster. We fear him. Or her. No one's gotten close enough to tell the sex yet!

[yemaya]

In God we trust was added to our currency in the 1950's. Read your history people. Our founding fathers were deists no Christians. In fact in some colonies.

[legaleagle 45]

"In God we trust was added to our currency in the 1950's."

It first appeared on our currency during the Civil War.

"Our founding fathers were deists no Christians"

Some of our founding fathers were deists (such as Jefferson), most were christians, however.

[paganmist]

It appeared on some currency during the Civil War. It wasn't until the 1950s that Congress made it 1) mandatory to 2) appear on ALL currency.

[Hirnlego]

The important thing is that they understood that the separation of church and state is essential.

[RuinedSaint]

macintoshsauce: "You know what the problem with you atheists is? You just can't accept that there is a supernatural being that created your sorry @ss."

In other words, we're not just like you.

I've never seen such a blatant and straight forward admission of being a b!got in my life. Congrats.

[ZenCrusader]

In God We Trust is part of our American tradition and our history. I see no need to change that based on the selfish demands and whining of atheists and heathens who are not evolved enough to sense the presence of their creator.

[DaveyDavey]

If history is what's all-important about this, why not use the original national motto, E Pluribus Unum? THAT speaks for all Americans, not just the superstitious majority.

[Tazru]

First, how can you put Zen and Crusader together like that.

Second, your arrogance is amazing.

[paganmist]

Re: In God We Trust

Congress required, in 1956, that the words appear on all currency, as a Cold War measure: "In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper" to "remind all of us of this self-evident truth" that "as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail."

Up until then, our motto had been E Pluribus Unum, since the 1700s.

"In God We Trust" has history, all right. It was tacked all over everything because people were afraid of Communists.

This is 2009. I think we can stop being afraid now.

[legaleagle 45]

Actually there was no official "congressionally mandated" motto whatsoever until 1956. The phrase "In God We Trust" first appeared on US currency during the Civil War.

However, the arguments presented on this board have convinced me that the inclusion of that phrase on US currency is indeed unconstitutional and downright evil. I have therefore graciously agreed to act as the official conduit for the disposal of all such currency in your posession.... at at absolutely not cost to you!

All you need due is to send me said currency that you have and I shall make sure it is properly disposed of. No need to thank me, as I consider this to be my patriotic duty.

[RuinedSaint]

"In God We Trust is part of our American tradition and our history."

No, In God We Trust was implemented as Cold War propaganda. E Plurubus Unum was a better motto in that it more fully described the intent and desire of our founders.

[newworldman777]

Of which creator are you referring? Jehovah? Allah? The Great Spirit? Some Buddhist or Hindu deity? Clue me in here...

[ZenCrusader]

at least you admit to being clueless - that is a good start !

[DaveyDavey]

Anything inscribed on a government building, currency, etc. should speak for all the people. It is presumptuous to inscribe "In God We Trust" on anything that is payed for with taxes because not all taxpayers believe that. If they want to inscribe "In God Some Of Us Trust," that would be OK.

[RuinedSaint]

How about In Engineering We Trust; being that everyone that goes into that building is trusting the engineers to have designed a roof that won't come down on their heads.

[gcallaghan]

If that's rejected try. "In The Lowest Bidder We Trust"

[Hirnlego]

"Believe what you want to believe. Or do not believe at all. This is Americah damn it!"

That too would be a waste of money..

[ManiDeli]

"When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag
carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis