Economist: U.S. More Permissive Of Torture Than China

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First Posted: 07-31-09 01:45 PM   |   Updated: 08-31-09 05:12 AM

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Yesterday, The Economist posted poll numbers on global attitudes towards torture, pulled from 2008 research conducted by World Public Opinion. The Economist notes: "Surprisingly, democracies are not necessarily more hostile to the practice than non-democracies. According to the polls, Americans are more willing to tolerate the use of torture than are Chinese."

As you can see in the numbers presented, approximately 66% of Chinese polled reject the use of torture, as compared to approximately 53% of Americans.

It's great that The Economist is giving attention to this issue, but there are caveats. What doesn't show up in these numbers is that contemporaneous polls showed that significant numbers from all nations polled were willing to make exceptions for terrorists. Moreover, these are year-old numbers, and while World Public Opinion does not have updated global data, they have resurveyed American opinion on the matter, which were published this past June. In the interim, Americans opinion seemed to have shifted against torture, even in the case of terrorists:

Six in 10 Americans approve of having an international convention saying that "governments should never use physical torture" as a means of trying to get information, while 39 percent say such a ban is too restrictive, according to a new WorldPublicOpinion.org/Knowledge Networks poll.

A majority also opposes nearly all methods for coercing detainees to give information, even when it might be critical to stopping a terrorist attack against the US. Respondents were presented a scenario in which a detainee is being held who is likely to have "information about a possible terrorist attack on the US that may prove critical to stopping the attack." They were then presented a series of methods for coercing the respondent to reveal the information.

Majorities opposed forcing the detainee to take stressful positions (56%), using threatening dogs (64%), exposing the detainee to extreme heat and cold (66%), making the detainee go naked (71%), holding the detainee's head under water (78%), punching or kicking the detainee (80%), and applying electric shocks (81%).

One method--sleep deprivation--received modest majority support (52%). Views were divided on putting a hood over a detainee's head for a long period of time, and bombarding the detainee with loud music. A very large majority (79%) favored offering detainees positive incentives for providing information.

Naturally, these numbers do still lag behind the previous polling of Chinese, but this is not in itself surprising. China has a long and continuing history of torture, which assuredly informs its people's opinions. American opinions on torture are largely shaped by the media, who have historically deployed a wide range of euphemisms -- "harsh questioning," "enhanced interrogation techniques" -- that obscure the issue. Naturally, those euphemisms only apply to actions taken by Americans. When the Chinese, or the Iranians torture somebody, the media uses the word "torture."

I'm just speculating here, but perhaps if we stopped using euphemisms that gloss over reality, Americans would appear in polls to be even more enlightened on human rights than the Chinese.

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Yesterday, The Economist posted poll numbers on global attitudes towards torture, pulled from 2008 research conducted by World Public Opinion. The Economist notes: "Surprisingly, democracies are not ...
Yesterday, The Economist posted poll numbers on global attitudes towards torture, pulled from 2008 research conducted by World Public Opinion. The Economist notes: "Surprisingly, democracies are not ...
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Did Obama miss a golden moment in our history to prosecute & stand against torture?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=5851
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 08/01/2009

Seriously.­..........­..if torturing someone would have disclosed the 9/11 plot and prevented this attack on our country, there are people who think this would have been unjustified? Seriously? Wow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 AM on 08/01/2009
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We are the United States of America.

We occupy other countries and overthrow governments.
We incarcerate more of our population than any other country.
We pass laws without reading them.
We more than 60% of our inmates doing time for nonviolent unjust crimes.
We let people in disaster areas suffer.
We allow our police to abuse and brutalize our people.
We take 70% or more of our peoples earned wages.
We spend, borrow and print money.
We spy on our people.
We offer the same two party choices when they are really the same party.
We dictate how other countries will behave.
We give money to dictators and the rest we bomb,
We encourage our people to go in debt.
We put our children in debt.
We bow down to the wealthy and steal from the poor.
We require our people to ask permission to do anything.
We steal land from the rightful owners to build malls.
We run ponzi schemes like medicare and social security.
We nationalize private companies and then run them into the ground.
We pass bailouts against the peoples will.

Continued...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 AM on 08/01/2009
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Continuation...

We threaten and scare our people with terrorism and depression.
We pressure corporations to send their jobs overseas.
We keep generations hooked on welfare.
We give child molesters probation and pot smokers life in jail.
We leave our boarders open for others to come and collect welfare.
We run our schools into the ground.
We poison our peoples water with fluoride.
We keep drugs and prostitution illegal so violent gangs can make money.
We have corrupt cops, courts and politicians.
We taser our people when they don't obey orders.
We arrest people in their homes for not showing respect.
We don't prosecute leaders who break the law.
We arrest and hold people indefinitely without charges.
We don't follow our Constitution.
We engage in illegal wars.
We label libertarians as extremists.
Oh ya, and we torture.then justify it.

They hate us because we are free? Look again. We are not free and there are many other reasons to hate us. Our founding fathers would be ashamed of what this country has turned into.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 AM on 08/01/2009
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sad that this once great nation has entered the dark ages...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 PM on 07/31/2009
- wordvarc I'm a Fan of wordvarc 31 fans permalink

Dungeans = Indefinate rendition and denial of 'habeas corpus.'

Torture, domestic spying, highest rates of imprisonme­nt...we're becoming a 'third world' country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 08/01/2009
- JiminNC I'm a Fan of JiminNC 268 fans permalink
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Hey, but with a little work, we could catch up with Indonesia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 07/31/2009

The US has become the t.er.ro.rists. Congrats. Hope all those wars pay off in some way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 PM on 07/31/2009
- zepfan81 I'm a Fan of zepfan81 11 fans permalink

There's a simple reason for this: the Chinese are the one's actually getting tortured by their own government. American's view torture as something done to others other than themselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 PM on 07/31/2009
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Chinese are interested in results.

Americans are interested in cheap jollies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 07/31/2009
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Let's keep reading enemy combatants their Miranda rights. I'm sure they can give them a venti white chocolate mocha.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 07/31/2009
- Billy Hell I'm a Fan of Billy Hell 43 fans permalink
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"Enemy combatants" is a freshly fabricated category of prisoner which does not enjoy international legal recognition and serves only to remove any legal rights that POW's and ordinary criminals receive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 07/31/2009
- cd789 I'm a Fan of cd789 56 fans permalink
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"Fresh" is not the word I would use to describe something that was pulled out of the collective a**es of Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo, and friends.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 07/31/2009
- sosi I'm a Fan of sosi 8 fans permalink
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90% of Americans claim to religious, so at least 40% endorsing torture are God people, remarkable

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 PM on 07/31/2009
- cd789 I'm a Fan of cd789 56 fans permalink
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What do you expect from people who's belief system hinges on the torture of one individual?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 07/31/2009
- Billy Hell I'm a Fan of Billy Hell 43 fans permalink
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It's torture if they do it to us but it's enhanced interrogation if we do it to them. Standard hypocrisy, like that justifying hundreds of US acts of terror around the globe for the past 50 years and longer. If we do it it's looking after American interests but if they do it's terror.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 07/31/2009

Howard Zinn agrees with you.

http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/258

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 07/31/2009
- Billy Hell I'm a Fan of Billy Hell 43 fans permalink
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Yeah that's pretty standard Chomsky and Zinn speak :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 07/31/2009

We have become a very, very sick nation.
Even Egypt with its abysmal human rights record is above us on this list.
Disgusting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 07/31/2009
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I think people really underestimate just how torturous sleep deprivation and solitary confinement can be

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 07/31/2009
- bobo5 I'm a Fan of bobo5 16 fans permalink

Jose Padilla was a vegetable in kangaroo court.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 PM on 07/31/2009
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Be specific... torture gives conservatives wood . . .
~

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/31/2009
- Palemoon I'm a Fan of Palemoon 166 fans permalink
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Well, well, well, here we have another rightwing publication making another confession, or is it admission?

Who would have ever thought that Americans were more inclined to torture than the commies? Say it ain't so, Joe!! *wink*

*watches as republican writers sits stiffly up on his couch to ask "Did she wink at me? I think she did?"*

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 07/31/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 570 fans permalink
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"Who would have ever thought that Americans were more inclined to torture than the commies?"

The rest of the world.

:)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 PM on 07/31/2009

That seems to be the new explanatory framework. "The rest of the world" as the complementary negative image of a US self-conception in a now broken mirror. Reverse exceptionalism, in a way. At some point Americans must break this dualistic pattern of "us" and "the rest", because it perpetuates a form of isolation and non-integration that serves nobody.

Don't get me wrong, you're making a good point here, and I'm sympathetic to any form of self-criticism, which is certainly implied here. But there is no such thing as "the rest of the world". America must begin to see itself more as a part of that world than it did so far, in a constructive way. We've established that it's not that city on a hill, but it's not an underworld cave either. What is demanded, though, is a sense of honesty with American history. The Bush years do not constitute a fundamental break within American history. That may be an inconvenient truth, but it's a truth nonetheless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 07/31/2009
- Palemoon I'm a Fan of Palemoon 166 fans permalink
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LOL, BEST POST EVER. I guess I should have known the answer Amanda. :o)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 PM on 07/31/2009
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