Dark Clouds Lurk Behind The Silver Lining Of Recovery Data

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First Posted: 08-11-09 10:30 PM   |   Updated: 08-11-09 10:56 PM

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Washington Post:

The pile of economic data indicating that the worst of the recession is over just keeps growing. In the past few weeks, the government has reported that businesses last month shed the smallest number of jobs in nearly a year. The savings rate, after rising rapidly, held steady at levels not seen in at least five years. And from April to June, productivity surged to a six-year high.

Read the whole story: Washington Post

The pile of economic data indicating that the worst of the recession is over just keeps growing. In the past few weeks, the government has reported that businesses last month shed the smallest number ...
The pile of economic data indicating that the worst of the recession is over just keeps growing. In the past few weeks, the government has reported that businesses last month shed the smallest number ...
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The only thing that will fix the economy is to let the free market do its magic. That won't happen until the Republicans are back in office. With the unsurprising way things are going (job less recovery, failed health care reform, etc.) we're going to see that happen in 2010. It can't come soon enough.

The only things working for Obama right now are his policies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he stole those from the Bush Administration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 08/12/2009
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Wow...you really haven't been paying attention have you?

The free market DOES NOT WORK. It never has, but the impacts have been continually put off for decades by Republicans through the neglect of our infrastructure and the destruction of our environment.

You capitalists have done so much damage that even a complete move to socialism (which is NOT what Obama is doing) wouldn't save us now.

Your America is crumbling and it is your fault. We face chaos, disorder and social unrest and we can blame Milton Friedman, Ronald Reagan, G. W. Bush and YOU!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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The one thing that sustained our economy and kept $ flowing, during the recession, was hippies trading in the #1 cash crop........, Imagine what it would be doing to help this recovery if it was 'above ground'.........,? Good for:
halting illegal immigration
Farmer's incomes
manufacturers
pharma
healthcare
green energy- [hemp-oil burns clean...,]
replacing the affects of de-forestation,[climate change]
jobs
app. $92 billion in savings /year if we ended prohibition, And 800,000 americans arrested fer weed each year could save tons from loss of production, because of incarceration and fines etc......,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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You are correct. Hemp is a great overlooked resource, which was made illegal when plastic fibers became lucrative for the chemical industry. I am for legalization but many are not. My young daughter feels that it would produce too many "stoners" in our society that would fail to be productive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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lol. I have been successful at many tough jobs ,as a contractor for the cable tv construction and engineering 'build-up' since the early 80's. The best drews I supervised were always 'stoners'......., Some people are misled on the 'effects' of weed, because in actuality, it helps one focus on the task at hand ,and not become sidetracked....,at least that has been my experience. I didn't supervise 20-30 workers, all over the country, doing every type of cable job there is, by bein' 'unproductive', and I was almost always high.......,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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If you took people off anti-depressants and put them on medical marijuana, you would be cutting into the pharma industry. Not good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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Their medications have too many side-effects, and more often than we know, make people sic ker....,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 08/12/2009
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Actually that would be fantastic! The pharma industry is killing our healthcare industry. I believe that we need to kill them first.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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There is no doubt whatsoever that Stimulus money is and will be creating jobs and stimulating the economy. And, of course, it is difficult to always find worthwhile projects to fund where job losses have hit the hardest. That is mainly because the wise decision by the Administration to spend money on projects that needed funding anyway, and would not just create jobs, but would be an investment in our future. For example, a town where job losses are heavy might not need road and bridge repair and, therefore, it would not receive infrastructure funds. The same is true of places requiring clean-up of nuclear waste disposal sites. Those sites needed clean-up anyway. It just so happens that in those areas the unemployment was not the worst.

It was in the news yesterday that North Dakota has 9000 plus unfilled job openings. That's a lot for a small State.

I like that people are watching how the money is being spent but, thus far, I think the Administration is doing a good job. By year-end, we should see increase in employment. Other economic indicators are already looking good.

Keep on doing what you are doing, Mr. President. And do more of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 08/12/2009

There's every doubt in the world - just about the only thing commentators on the left and right agree is that the stimulus was small enough that it was ineffectual, but large enough that it helped create significant sticker shock. Around 10% of stimulus money has been doled out - if it's your contention that merely $70 billion dollars helped revert a huge depression, how could that depression have happened in the first place with an operating government budget of 3 trillion plus dollars?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 08/12/2009
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A guy that I used to work with has a horse drawn wagon that he and his wife like to take out on "Sunday drives". He's got lights rigged up on it in case they get caught out in the twilight. They operate off of a battery that is charged by an alternator driven by the turning of one of the wheels. Just sayin'......despite what we are up against as a nation, our future is as limitless as we make it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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You are absolutely right. As a "Conservative Hippie", what happened to our ingenuity? When I was young we did everything. We made great music, went to the moon (in a decade), ended a war, ended discrimination (at least in law). We created. And now we are being told we can't do it? Of course we can do it. We have done it all before.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 08/12/2009
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Yes we have and will do it again. We can achieve anything we put our minds to. We need to concentrate on solutions and stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated by our leaders and the MSM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 08/12/2009
- Pablo175 I'm a Fan of Pablo175 16 fans permalink

Stimulus was a complete waste.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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Not according to all those highway workers west of my hometown , that have been rebuilding ,at least, 30 miles of highways and bridges. They tip good at the bar, too, and are helping stmulate the local economy as well. Pablo175 apparently lives in a cave or hole......,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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haha...um...up his ....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 08/12/2009
- RattleCat I'm a Fan of RattleCat 241 fans permalink
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Tell me about it! The DOW is still declining, consumer confidence is lower than ever, housing is non-existence, job losses are steeper than ever.

Then again.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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Existing home sales are up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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When the rich have lots of money, what makes neocons think they would spend tax-cut $ to stimulate the economy? Anytime they hear of a recession they stop spending and horde what they got. [As conservatives, that is their nature]. The people spending the most [during recessions], and stimulating the most, are the one's who HAVE to spend everything just to survive week to week.
Tax-cuts for the wealthy ,in a time of 4 wa rs, [only 2 of which are necessary], was the stoopidest policy by any party, ever, and, at the same time, de-regulating the financial markets and banking industry, conservative and rightwing warmongering,lack of congressional leadership, has all created a perfect storm of conservative failures. Centrists are stabilizing things, but, not taking the neccessary steps, yet, to actually 'change' things. The most difficult times in our history, have always been the best time to enact major reforms, and I'm not seeing that yet. Until we start taking a more progressive approach to these issues they are going to continue to be a drain on this economy, and will only take that much longer to recover.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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The greedy complain about taxes, but taxes are necessary to maintain society. The greedy would prefer to pay nothing at all and perhaps reinact slavery....oh wait..we already have that in the form of the insurance industry. By the way, saw you on TV last night.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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Was that last nite? Man, so busy.......,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 08/12/2009
- PATina I'm a Fan of PATina 238 fans permalink
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Can't argue w/ that ! Seriously... I wish people would understand this in general but specifically...

The most difficult times in our history, have always been the best time to enact major reforms,

Instead of patching up a broken financial system... we should have used the banking crisis to reform it into a sustainable one.i

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 08/12/2009
- KidIcarus I'm a Fan of KidIcarus 39 fans permalink
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This sentence is false.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 08/12/2009
- VPN I'm a Fan of VPN 110 fans permalink
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So what else is new?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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heh...,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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GM has announces that the Volt will get 230 mpg.

This is the kind of exciting product that GM needs to turn things around.
I have never purchased a GM car (bought a Ford once), but I would happily buy a Volt, even at the expected $40 K price tag and even if gets half that advertized mpg.

More importantly, looks like the power plant and the batteries would be produced in the U.S., or at least the majority of parts. This meshes in well with the $2.6 Billion initiative the President just announced for R&D in battery technology. Hopefully, part of that R&D would be to reduce cost.

This is the kind of stuff that would revive the manufacturing sector. What is needed (and is not yet adequately addressed) is revision of our trade pacts and agreements (NAFTA included) with other countries. We definitely need to do that to make domestic products more competitive.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 08/12/2009
- ethancorso I'm a Fan of ethancorso 242 fans permalink
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Great post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 08/12/2009
- willt7311 I'm a Fan of willt7311 136 fans permalink
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Electricity still needs to be generated some how. Wind and Solar have yet to prove that they are an affordable or reliable source.

How about nuclear? Who is the party of no on that one?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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Nuclear is fine, once safety issues (waste disposal and plant safety) are resolved. Also, nuclear is very expensive. Obama has not ruled out nuclear.
Wind and Solar are now viable and feasible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 08/12/2009
- RattleCat I'm a Fan of RattleCat 241 fans permalink
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No one has said "no" to nuclear. Except maybe the electric companies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 08/12/2009
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230 mpg - but only by traveling about 40 miles between recharges.
So not exactly 230 mpg on a sustained basis.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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True. But even half that number is great. Also, no car produced even now is suitable for everyone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 08/12/2009
- RattleCat I'm a Fan of RattleCat 241 fans permalink
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And only 40 cents to recharge. Heck of a lot better than the $3 to replace one gallon of gas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 08/12/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 94 fans permalink
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This truly is great news ...

A Japanese automaker has one that gets about 375 mpg ... (Mitsubishi?)

Now all we need to do is build a bunch of nuclear power plants and our energy problems will be essentially solved. Engineers at Los Alamos have "small town nukes" in development. Hopefully we can get your side onboard ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos

(currently coal-fired power plants make 49% of the juice for these cars ... more in the northeast where they would be most efficient)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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Nuclear is fine, once safety issues (waste disposal and plant safety) are resolved. Also, nuclear is very expensive. Obama has not ruled out nuclear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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I saw that on the nightly news. The problem is the price tag. How many Americans can afford a 40,000 vehicle? Many do, but many can't. We need affordability too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 AM on 08/12/2009
- PATina I'm a Fan of PATina 238 fans permalink
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There was a GM exec on the Ed show (or was it hardball) last night that said w/ dealer incentives the price would be more like $32,000. he also alluded that since this was the 1st generation... the price could drop as they became more popular.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 08/12/2009
- ethancorso I'm a Fan of ethancorso 242 fans permalink
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Nick Lowe -- All Men AreLiars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vL6oAWic20

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 08/12/2009
- SpookyTwo I'm a Fan of SpookyTwo 36 fans permalink

Including Nick Lowe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 AM on 08/12/2009
- AlsoSarah I'm a Fan of AlsoSarah 77 fans permalink
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What Americans fail to understand that collectively we need to produce more than we consume. Our economy is based on 70% consumerism. How can that be good? We have all been sitting around Wall Streets banquet table getting fat. Too fat to move when they stopped bringing out the food. Now we are wondering who is going to cook.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 08/12/2009
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We have the opportunity to make a new start. It's time for people to start making things with their hands again. Since the majority of the manufacturing jobs have been offshored, there will be openings for small business to step up and fill in the gaps with innovation. We need to look at our past strengths and modify them using today's technology to get us back to a sustainable existence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 08/12/2009
- miamia I'm a Fan of miamia 12 fans permalink

agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 08/12/2009

Hmm. We need to produce more than we consume? What do we do with the leftovers? And how can there even be an economy unless we have people consuming what is produced? And if we do not consume it all then we have produce left on the shelves which causes inventory backup and the laying off of workers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 08/12/2009
- miamia I'm a Fan of miamia 12 fans permalink

Sell it, maybe? You think? I think this poster probably meant that we need to create/sell more things, instead of having an economy based on consuming.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 08/12/2009
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I've been in and out this morning so I haven't been able to follow any disussions but I've seen several posts that show many of us are aware of attempts to re-inflate our bubble economy and the damage that will result in the next bust cycle. I'm glad that the information is out there and people are passing along their knowledge and views.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 AM on 08/12/2009
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 08/12/2009
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Great song!

I have always liked his music.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 AM on 08/12/2009
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He's a talented singer/songwriter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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In January, when Obama took the oath of office, our financial system was on the verge of collapse, all economic indicators were headed south, and we were losing somewhere between 600 thousand to a million jobs every month.

There was talk of depression.

Presently, our financial system is stable, most economic indicators are starting to go up and job losses have been dramatically reduced.

Not even those in the Administration claimed such progress this early.

What I find amazing is that dealing with the financial system and the economy is not all that the President has accomplished in these six months. Here are some of the accomplishments:

Stem cell order reversed.
SCHIP passed and signed into law
Ledbetter bill passed and signed into law.
Major Green energy initiatives started.
EPA rules revised to address Climate Change.
Executive order signed to protect large areas from drilling.
Car emission standards revised.
National Science Foundation funding boosted.

Stimulus bill passed, and already helping revive the economy.
Finacial system reform plan implemented.
Regulations on the way.

Gitmo closing ordered.
T0rture banned.
Iraq troop withdrawal ordered.
Afghanistan approach revised.

Direct negotiations with Iran on the way.
Negotiations with Syria in progress.
Disarmament talks with Russia re-started.
Travel restrictions lifted and normalization of relations with Cuba on the table.

Energy/Climate Change legislation passed the House, soon to be passed by Senate.
Healthcare legislation on the way.

And I’m sure that missed many items.

Do we have a President, or do we have a PRESIDENT!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 AM on 08/12/2009
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I love it when you post that list of accomplishments.

Our president is doing good things for the American people on a daily basis.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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Even we tend to forget how much has been done, and continues to get done. Mostly what we hear is bad news.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 AM on 08/12/2009
- SpookyTwo I'm a Fan of SpookyTwo 36 fans permalink

It just makes one's heart go a-flutter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 AM on 08/12/2009
- SpookyTwo I'm a Fan of SpookyTwo 36 fans permalink

You forgot: "Economy in the tank. Blaming Boosh and passing a pork-laden "stimulus" package has not helped".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 08/12/2009
- slinkymom I'm a Fan of slinkymom 152 fans permalink
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I truly appreciate that you take the time to post this info. It's benefical to all to see just what our president has been doing these past months.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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It's not a complete list, but even this is impressive by any standards.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 08/12/2009
- ethancorso I'm a Fan of ethancorso 242 fans permalink
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I don't agree with this list on all points, but an excellent list of what he has accomplished nonetheless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 08/12/2009
- Strega I'm a Fan of Strega 396 fans permalink
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ditto

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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Name a President or, for that matter any person, with whom you agreed 100% on all matters.

Think about it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 AM on 08/12/2009
- willt7311 I'm a Fan of willt7311 136 fans permalink
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Obama's x-mas wish list.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 08/12/2009
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1627 fans permalink
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Yet another meaningless comment from you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 08/12/2009
- RattleCat I'm a Fan of RattleCat 241 fans permalink
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Interesting - you can't reply to a post after a certain depth? When did that change happen?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 08/12/2009
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I noticed it on some threads last week.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 AM on 08/12/2009
- miamia I'm a Fan of miamia 12 fans permalink

"As far as I can judge, I am not apt to follow blindly the lead of
other men. I have steadily endeavoured to keep my mind free so
as to give up any hypothesis, however much beloved (and I cannot
resist forming one on every subject), as soon as facts are shown
to be opposed to it". --Darwin

The comments here are just ridiculous. People need to drop their ideologies and adopt some common sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 08/12/2009
- Coinyer101 I'm a Fan of Coinyer101 703 fans permalink
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That's right. They should be more like me......,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 08/12/2009
- PATina I'm a Fan of PATina 238 fans permalink
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I agree... there should be more like you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 AM on 08/12/2009
- willt7311 I'm a Fan of willt7311 136 fans permalink
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And what would that common sense be?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 08/12/2009
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The opposite of what you believe, for the most part.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 08/12/2009
- miamia I'm a Fan of miamia 12 fans permalink

Did you read the quote? I am referring to a willingness to abandon ideologies that fail to work in practice. Insanity is doing the same the repeatedly and expecting different result.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 08/12/2009
- miamia I'm a Fan of miamia 12 fans permalink

Did you read the quote? I am referring to a willingness to abandon ideologies that fail to work in practice. Insanity is doing the same the repeatedly and expecting different result.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 08/12/2009
- ethancorso I'm a Fan of ethancorso 242 fans permalink
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What is common sense in your opinion?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 08/12/2009
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