Health Care Protesters Largely From Out Of District, Sign-In Sheets Show

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First Posted: 08-11-09 11:07 AM   |   Updated: 08-13-09 05:07 PM

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Dingell

In what became an emblematic scene, Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.), faced a hostile crowd at a packed health care town hall in Michigan on Thursday. Dingell, a major sponsor of health care reform legislation, was repeatedly shouted down. At one point, a man named Mike Sola wheeled his son to the front of the room and engaged in a YouTube-bound shouting match (see below) with Dingell before being escorted out by police.

But who was actually populating this angry mob? Although town-hall meetings are intended for constituents of congressional members' districts, some if not a majority of attendees seemed to have come from further away.

Members of Congress routinely ask constituents to sign in when they attend town halls so they can contact them later and gauge where people are coming from. Dingell spokesman Adam Benson estimated that at least 500 people showed up for the meeting, and half didn't sign in at all. Of the 262 who did, 80 listed addresses inside Dingell's district; 100 listed addresses outside the district; and 82 didn't put down an address at all. Sign-in sheet breakdowns provided to the Huffington Post in two other congressional districts indicated a similar pattern of outside agitation.

In short, the sign-in sheets lend credence to the accusation that the protests are the product of Washington-based "Astroturf" organizations, rather than evidence of a groundswell of popular resistance to health care reform.

The anger, though, is undeniable. Sola, for instance, told Dingell that his legislation was a "fraud" and would not cover his son, who has cerebral palsy. But did Sola's charges have any merit?

Sola was offered a meeting with the congressman but declined. His son would presumably be eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance, Medicaid, or some other government run health program -- but he didn't return a phone call from the Huffington Post to get more details of his situation. His story and a photo of the altercation ran on the front page of the conservative Washington Times on Monday, and that night Sola appeared on Fox News to say that Democratic leaders had sent "thugs" to his house in the middle of the night in retribution for his comments.

At another now-famous town hall meeting a week ago, in Rep. Gene Green's district, the Texas Democrat became a YouTube celebrity after an angry voter asked the crowd of roughly 150 to declare whether they wanted the government to keep its hands off their health care.

Green quickly followed up by asking how many in the crowd were on Medicare -- which, for those unaware, is a government program. Many hands were raised.

Story continues below

At that event, according to Green's office, of the 121 people who signed in, 60 did not list addresses in the district. Eleven of those listed either Texas or USA but nothing more specific; the rest left addresses outside the district.

As the town halls dominate the national news cycle, Green's office says the out-of-district element appears to have increased. "It's only gotten worse since, as far as folks not from the district," said spokeswoman Brenda Arredondo. At some of the events since then, she said, sign-in sheets indicate as many as eight of ten members of the audience were from outside the district.

Rep. Steve Kagen (D-Wis.) hosted a town hall that featured protestations from Heather Blish who described herself as "just a mom from a few blocks away" who was "not affiliated with any political party." It turned out she was the former vice chair of the Republican Party of Kewaunee County until last year and had also worked for John Gard, a Republican challenger who Kagan defeated last year.

A Kagen spokesman refused to release details from the event's sign-in sheet, but said that of the 200 to 300 people present, about 30 percent of the attendants were from out of district.

Rep. Lloyd Doggett, another Texas Democrat, was the target of protesters who seemed to be from out of district, but sign-in sheets "were woefully incomplete," his spokeswoman, Sarah Dohl said, "and didn't account for nearly the amount of people that were actually there."

Doggett had little doubt most of the attendees were from out of the area. "Most of the well organized protesters with their Doggett tombstone and devil posters at the Neighborhood Office Hours in Southwest Austin were not from the neighborhoods invited to participate," said a statement to HuffPost released by his office.

"This was a well planned bit of political theater with the actors invited by the Chair of the Travis County Republican Party, who participated as one of the protesters. Afterwards, on her website, she thanked the 'liberty warriors' for their good work. All of this was recorded by Republican cameras and quickly spoonfed to the local media.

"By showing on YouTube only the Congressman's departure after an hour of taunt-filled discussion and only after cries of 'just say no!' prevented those not associated with the protest from speaking, Republicans created the illusion that they had prevented any meeting. One YouTube video of the event proudly proclaims that it was produced by the Republican Party of Texas. Naturally, Republicans denied to the local media that they organized this allegedly 'grassroots' event. Additionally, local health insurance representatives have been active in encouraging protests."

Jeff Muskus and Laura Dean contributed reporting to this story.


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In what became an emblematic scene, Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.), faced a hostile crowd at a packed health care town hall in Michigan on Thursday. Dingell, a major sponsor of health care reform legisl...
In what became an emblematic scene, Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.), faced a hostile crowd at a packed health care town hall in Michigan on Thursday. Dingell, a major sponsor of health care reform legisl...
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- Jane48 I'm a Fan of Jane48 18 fans permalink
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These drones who flood the meetings are definitely usurping the rights of the constituents in that district. They literally *takeover* the meetings.

Just as when we vote they should be required to show their Identification and some proof of address. This is just not fair at all to the people of that district, whether they are Republican or Democrat..., because what "goes around,...comes around."

Jay Gould, a Billionaire in the old days had a saying: "I can hire one half of the working class to kill off the other half." I guess the Re-Thugs & Fa$ c ist Insurance companies have been doing some hiring.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 08/25/2009
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It is just common sense (and common courtesy) that town hall meeting attendance should be limited to those people who are registered voters in the district the elected official represents. When people from outside show up and disrupt, it violates the rights of those voters in the district who want to hear from and discuss issues with, their elected officials.

Apparently, those from outside who disrupt do not feel the district voters have any rights. At least that is what their actions indicate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 08/21/2009

I bet every protester has health care insurance paid for by someone else -- like their company or the government entity they work for.
My husband and I pay 100% of the cost OUT OF OUR POCKETS for a high-deductible healthcare insurance policy every month.
Protestors and those with insurance have no idea about the real cost of healthcare or what it's like to pay out of pocket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 PM on 08/17/2009
- DeaconJoey I'm a Fan of DeaconJoey 12 fans permalink
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Why hold these town hall meetings during weekdays in the middle of the day, when a lot of the working people whom this bill would help are struggling at work? So far, all I see are elderly medicare receipients, who have all the free time in the world.

I have a suggestion.... hold these town halls on weekends, or during the evening on weekdays. And offer a play area for toddlers so working parents can show up. Encourage people to bring their school age children so they can see democracy in action. In other words, make these town hall meetings more family friendly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 08/12/2009
- ghf I'm a Fan of ghf 4 fans permalink

I suggest that there are two 'realities.'
1. Many people are being trucked in.
2. Many more people are actually scared/concerned.

But now we need to ask why scared/concerned and the answer is lying. Politicians are lying. Consider districts here in NE Indiana.

Representative Pence in an interview concerning the proposed health care legislation said that it would cost the taxpayers $1T in new taxes. When Carlos Watson of MSNBC challenged this statement Representative Pence said he was “rounding up.”

The actual figure as calculated by the CBO is $580B which is to be paid for by taxing the richest 1.2% of the people in the US. A $420B ‘rounding’ error? http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/30/pence-taxes-health-care/ (and)

Rep Souder ‘weasels reality’ saying this part of the legislation is "… the so-called ‘euthanasia consultation clause.’” (continuing with) “The bill, however, does provide through taxpayer dollars for a consultation that will probably steer people to use public funds to kill themselves and will pay for it if they do choose.” He then tried to hide The Scary – and his distortions of reality with, “…It appears … to be an optional choice. But it needs to be clearer.”

Given these lies - wouldn't you be scared?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 08/12/2009
- oldngrumpy I'm a Fan of oldngrumpy 294 fans permalink
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The actual figure as calculated by the CBO is $580B which is to be paid for by taxing the richest 1.2% of the people in the US. A $420B ‘rounding’ error?

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The Department of Homeland Security found enough illegal offshore accounts of tax dodging wealthy Americans and phony incorporations to account for a loss of $100 Billion pr year in tax revenue. That was in Bush's last term and I have yet to see any more of it. It would seem to me that simple tax enforcement would yield more than enough to pay for a measly $580 billion over 10 yrs. We could also end deductible status for interest and property taxes on second homes. There is a myriad of ways to pay for this without breaking a sweat or tapping the middle class.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 08/12/2009
- fmd I'm a Fan of fmd permalink

Actually there is a clause in it that forbids discussing assisted suicide with your health care provider.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 08/21/2009

I am not surprised that many protesters were from out of district with rumors about paid protests and new registrations discarding more often than not the Republican Party because of its right wing. It was more surprising that the President had a Town Hall with a more respectful audience and that Representative Wu in Oregon had a town hall with little heckling. He said before hand that people in Oregon (even if out of District) are respectful of each others opinions and willing to calmly discuss issues. However, his Town Hall meeting locations really didn't leave much room for protests either because of limited capacity.

I was actually surprised that the opposition to health reform wasn't even higher with every health insurance company employee showing up at as many locations as possible. I suspect their employers have told them their jobs may disappear with health insurance reform. A serious cost of business for doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies is all the people paid to push paper and phone calls around over what health insurance companies resist paying for now.. Doctors need less staff to deal with Medicare claims than with typical insurance.

Maybe some health insurance employees are actually putting the good of the nation above their personal financial concerns in this period of high unemployment. Some may even be worrying about how they will pay for health insurance themselves if they get fired for any reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 AM on 08/12/2009

SeniorMoment-
You said "I suspect their employers have told them their jobs may disappear with health
insurance reform."

Obama has repeatedly said that if you like your insurance plan you can keep it.
However, like Fannie/Freddie, government subsidized businesses can squeeze out
private businesses. You voiced the concern of many dissenters, that we will all be
forced into a government run health system.

Why can't we purchase insurance across state lines? THAT would add competition
and lower costs of health care WITHOUT costing the taxpayer ANYTHING.
I have written my reperesentatives and asked them that question and gotten no
response.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 PM on 08/12/2009
- FR I'm a Fan of FR 44 fans permalink

Some of these people are seniors who have been scared out of their wits by the lies. It's cruel and I feel for them.
The rest are organized thugs well-rehearsed in the same odious script about how they "want" "their" America back, all delivered in tremulous "heartfelt" tones. But not one of them ever spells out what are these allegedly terrible things that have happened to "their" America.
It's not "their" America, it's the America of all of us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 AM on 08/12/2009
- oldngrumpy I'm a Fan of oldngrumpy 294 fans permalink
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It's not "their" America, it's the America of all of us.

Therein lies the difference between right and left. The right is still in "get off my lawn" old white guy mode. The audacity of Obama to even run against a white, senior, war hero, much less to win, is beyond their comprehension. Most of them don't even understand their racism but they just know that they are afraid and it's Obama's fault. The Supreme Court hearings were a perfect example as Sotomayor was berated for having a different life experience and viewpoint than the parade of old white guys that have dominated the position for 200 years. Does anyone think that "old white guy" is a neutral position? It never was. It was simply the dominate position. The right is not dealing well with the transition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 08/12/2009
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By golly, I think you have hit on it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 AM on 08/21/2009
- kdlaiusa I'm a Fan of kdlaiusa 9 fans permalink
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These people who started the shoutfest in townhalls have to be very committed Republicans. Telling them what to do is one thing, but actually shouting at the event takes some guts.

Wonder how much they get paid doing that, or not?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 AM on 08/12/2009
- Teresa201 I'm a Fan of Teresa201 31 fans permalink
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Actually I feel that people who feel the need to shout, have little self respect...

Therefore they have no respect for others.

It does not take gutts to shout...
It takes pride to not shout back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 08/12/2009
- FR I'm a Fan of FR 44 fans permalink

Shouting people down at events doesn't take "guts," it takes a cowardly mob that knows it's been bused in in large numbers,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 AM on 08/12/2009
- GeoLee I'm a Fan of GeoLee 67 fans permalink

I have a simple solution. Ask each entrant if they believe in identification being shown in order to vote. when they say "Yes" then ask to see their identification. Or better yet, just require everyone to produce their driver's licentiate. If they are not from the district, do not admit. In the case of senator, if they are not from the state, don't admit. Almost every one of them on that side of the issue also think all people should produce id's before voting, so explain to them that the town halls are for the voting public. I would bet many would refuse to show ID so they would be refused to be let in. After all, they are trying to find out what the voters they represent think....and they could explain that they want to make sure the are not holding town meetings for illegal immigrants since they don't represent anyone but citizens of that district or that state.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 08/12/2009
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Great idea. This one suggestion would cut the imported shriekers' number by about 95 percent. It also raises a question; why are out-of-district or out-of-state people showing up at someone else's townhall meeting? The answer; their sole purpose for intruding is to intimidate the people of that district or state,
It's time to send these gate-crashers packing. Let them horn-in on townhall meetings with their own neighbors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 08/16/2009

"Republicans created the illusion that they had prevented any meeting"

How stupid can Republicans POSSIBLY be? To even WANT to prevent a meeting, OR even to want to create an ILLUSION of preventing a meeting (whether they did in FACT prevent a meeting), is completely un-American.

Oh, I'm so proud that I PREVENTED other Americans from peacefully gathering and debating issues.

How. freakin'. stupid. can. they. be? I mean seriously???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 08/12/2009
- oldngrumpy I'm a Fan of oldngrumpy 294 fans permalink
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You haven't seen the far side of stupid yet. When their childish tactics fail to stop the reform momentum there will be blood in the streets as the fight ratchets up. These people have not really been out of power since Carter, and even then the RNC was intertwined tightly with the CIA and foreign policy. They don't understand that they don't get to make the rules anymore and they will not take it well if this reform goes through.

Health care that is universal and affordable will be the ultimate end of the Republican party. Once people have it they won't want to part with it any more than seniors now want to give up Medicare. With a safety net in place and health care not tearing at our economy's fabric we could have an economic recovery that flows into an extended period of prosperity and Republicans will have a hard time keeping conservatism alive with such a contrast to judge from.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 08/12/2009
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Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. You just put the entire Republican rationale in perspective. This should be on a really big billboard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 08/16/2009
- mcmchugh99 I'm a Fan of mcmchugh99 79 fans permalink

I watched the meetings in Missouri, Maryland and Pennsylvania, and observed that many Republican "protesters" were asking identically worded questions, often reading from scripts. In one meeting, an elderly Republican forget the question he had memorized about tort reform, and the others in the group shouted out "tort reform" to remind them.

In the Maryland meeting, there was a Republican cheerleader telling the group when to stand up, sit down, cheer, jeer and boo.

They were all following the same tactic of trying to drown out the speaker and shout down anyone who was asking questions who were not part of their group.

The Tea Baggers, Birthers, Deathers and the rest are just Republican organizations operating under other identities, and so are the Town Hallers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 08/12/2009
- sviolette I'm a Fan of sviolette 103 fans permalink
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Hannity told me right on my radio that these were grassroots protests. You don't think he would lie to me do you? Say it ain't so SEAN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 08/11/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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ROFL..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 AM on 08/12/2009
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Sadly, I believe what you say may be true. Many of those who know history, especially the elderly who actually lived through it, are saying the same thing. We must be careful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 AM on 08/21/2009
- cabanas I'm a Fan of cabanas 5 fans permalink

Now we can not attend a town hall meeting if it is not in our district or town. Last time I checked, 11:19PM this was still a free country and we can freely gather and attend any meeting we want. Community organizers do it all the time, they march here, they march there, they march everywhere. I don't think freedom of expression belongs to only one Party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 PM on 08/11/2009
- sviolette I'm a Fan of sviolette 103 fans permalink
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Haven't you been listening to the republicans? Obama declared dictatorship. We are no longer free. This home invasion healthcare and death camps with death panels and all that bad stuff the republicans are always talking about. I'm still waiting for them to show up at my house. Anyone know what kind of car I should be looking for? Think they'll show up in a tank?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 08/11/2009
- oldngrumpy I'm a Fan of oldngrumpy 294 fans permalink
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Watch for a black stretch SUV. There probably won't be a helicopter given your lowly status, but one never knows. The tank is definitely not an option. Green and all, you know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 08/12/2009
- SneathLane I'm a Fan of SneathLane 3 fans permalink

Pretending to be a congressman's constituent when, in fact, you are not - is lying. It is fraudulent mis-representation.

You are free to gather and attend - but there are laws, both secular and religious, against lying in order to mislead.

If you are a religious person - no, God didn't say it was ok to lie to manipulate public opinion. God didn't say you should only be honest when you feel like it. If you lie at those meetings, shame on you for claiming to be religious while violating the religious principles you claim to follow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 AM on 08/12/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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Outside agitators who prevent a congressman from meeting with his constituents are depriving people of their rights as American citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 AM on 08/12/2009
- elfish I'm a Fan of elfish 223 fans permalink
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The constitution says you have the right to "peaceably to assemble". Heavy emphasis on "peaceably" and on "assemble." There is nothing in the constituion about attending any meeting. Congress has closed meetings all the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 AM on 08/12/2009
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Weren't you watching and reading when Bush had his "town halls"? They only allowed supporters in and only accepted pre-screened and approved questions. They even had someone arrested for wearing an opposition shirt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 08/21/2009
- rkfdred I'm a Fan of rkfdred 17 fans permalink

I think all attendees should show their voter registration cards to ensure they are from the area. If they don't have a voter card, they should not be allowed in (unless they are underage with a registered voter. It's pointless to talk to people who don't even bother to vote anyway and it would keep the town hall attendees actual people from the legislators area and thus he/she would come away with a better knowledge of how his constituency feels. After all, that's who he/she represents.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 PM on 08/11/2009
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