After Waterboarding, Sept. 11 Planner Recast As An Asset for CIA, Leading "Terrorist Tutorials"

washingtonpost.com:

After enduring the CIA's harshest interrogation methods and spending more than a year in the agency's secret prisons, Khalid Sheik Mohammed stood before U.S. intelligence officers in a makeshift lecture hall, leading what they called "terrorist tutorials."

Read the whole story: washingtonpost.com

Comments

[research]

Let's just put the suspected terrorist on the cross, and flay them till they talk, on world wide televisions,Think of the ratings!

[mulegino]

Perhaps they should continue with the "enhanced interrogation techniques" so they can elicit the following information from this "mastermind":

How he got his followers to take over four airliners using only boxcutters;

How his followers were able to outwit NORAD, the most sophisticated air defense command in the world;

How his follower Hani Hanjour was able to execute a banking maneuver with a Boeing 757 that most pilots consider nearly impossible, fly at nearly treetop level and manage to hit the Pentagon in the one part that was undergoing extensive renovation, as well as defeating the building's local air defense system when Hanjour was, in the words of his own flight instructor, "barely able to pilot a Cessna";

How his followers managed to down 3 skyscrapers using only 2 planes, and how he himself knew that low temperature hydro-carbon based fires would weaken the structural steel of two of the world's tallest buildings to the point, not just of collapse, but of pulverization of the concrete and the universal failure of the massive steel core columns in 1 and 2

How his followers managed to plant nano-thermite particles in the dust

[PaiaGirl]

Sounds like a plan. I am a mechanical engineer (UC masters degree) and I have BIG doubts about how a plane could cause a building to collapse into it's own footprint - not once but twice. And how the other building that wasn't even HIT collapsed into its own footprint.

Here we have the neocons bemoaning the fact that it will take some triggering atrocity in order for them to start their mideast wars...and what do you know? 9-11!

Not that I don't think that there WAS a plot by Al Queda and that American citizens perished in the planes (since I know someone whose friend perished) I just wonder how much Bush et al stood aside (with their simulation just coincidentally running the same day) and LET it happen.

[BlaineNelson]

So after all Waterboarding now works?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=6061

.

[elkabong]

post hoc ergo propter hoc

[PaiaGirl]

Can you translate for those of us who only speak English and Hawaiian?

[AliMB]

Part I

Interesting article by WaPo; one which adds to the plethora of evidence indicating that in the specific case of KSM enhanced interr0gation techniques (EITs) were key in turning this lethal terr0rist into a highly valuable informant:

"This reversal occurred after M0hammed was subjected to simulated dr0wning and prolonged sleep deprivati0n, among other har.sh interr0gation techniques."

Why were EITs important in getting KSM to cooperate? WaPo presents a source who offers a VERY poignant hypothesis:

"One former US official with detailed knowledge of how the interr0gations were carried out said M0hammed, like several other deta.inees, seemed to have decided that it was okay to stop resi.sting after he had endured a certain amount of pressure."

"Once the harsher techniques were used on [deta.inees], they could be viewed as having done their duty to Isl.am or their cause, and their religi0us principles would ask no more of them ... After that point, they became compliant. Obviously, there was also an interest in being able to later say, 'I was t0rtured into cooperating.' "

Skeptics will argue that none of the information contained in Monday's CIA document dump SPECIFICALLY articulates that X EIT produced Y piece of valuable intelligence. Let's put aside the fact that EITs were a pillar of the Interr0gation program, and that most of the information reported was extracted from HVDs known to have been subjected heavily to such techniques. This is a misleading argument.

[PaiaGirl]

Again - irrelevant.

The problem with allowing torture of one specific group (suspected terrorists) is that then other people can be added to this special group.

Eventually you and I are added to the group.

[AliMB]

Regarding this snippet of my post:

Why were EITs important in getting KSM to cooperate? WaPo presents a source who offers a VERY poignant hypothesis:

"One former US official with detailed knowledge of how the interr0gations were carried out said M0hammed, like several other deta.inees, seemed to have decided that it was okay to stop resi.sting after he had endured a certain amount of pressure."

"Once the harsher techniques were used on [deta.inees], they could be viewed as having done their duty to Isl.am or their cause, and their religi0us principles would ask no more of them ... After that point, they became compliant. Obviously, there was also an interest in being able to later say, 'I was t0rtured into cooperating.' "

This hypothesis appears to be corroborated by information cited in the OLC Memo dated May 30, 2005 (page 9):

"As Zubaydah himself explained with respect to enhanced techniques, "brothers who are captured and interr0gated are permitted by All.ah to provide information when they believe they have reached the limit of their ability to withhold it in the face of psychological and physical hard.ships". "

The document cited is from the CTC, and it is titled "Re: Effectiveness of the CIA Counterintelligence Interr0gation Techniques (dated March 2, 2005). Coincidentally, this document has not been released.

[AliMB]

Part II

Neither I nor any government institution can 'conclusively determine' the degree of 'effectiveness' of individual EITs; we can only prove that efficacy of the overall program. The reason is obvious:

No interr0gation technique was introduced IN ISOLATION. For example, in the case of KSM, the most deva.stating EIT (waterb0arding) was applied along with other har.sh treatment, including walling, near-24/7 shackling, and sensory manipulati0n. Furthermore, rapport-building/non-c0ercive methods were used in conjunction with EITs. It would be impossible to determine what specific technique caused a detainee to spill information; maybe prolonged sleep deprivati0n took its toll, or maybe the waterb0ard was the breaking point. The most probable conclusion is that the combination was the catalyst for critical confessions (including using non-c0ercive methods in a pseudo reward-pun.ishment paradigm). That would indicate that certain EITs were effective in making a deta.inee cooperate i.e. certain EITs helped elicit information.

As the former Inspector General, John Helgerson, admits:

"Certain of the techniques seemed to have little effect, whereas waterb0arding and sleep deprivati0n were the two most powerful techniques and elicited A LOT OF INFORMATION".

While the individual efficacy of techniques is difficult to measure and cannot be DEFINITIVELY proven (as everyone will admit), various documents and credible reports include data points which strongly suggest that EITs were not only effective but essential.

[fishingriver]

None of this matters. Attempting to justify torture is no different than attempting to justify child molestation. To even engage in debating it is an act of depravity.

[PaiaGirl]

See my reply above.

Also: The U.S. constitution:

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

If you want to violate the Constitution, how can you call yourself an American?

[AliMB]

Part III

For example, the OLC Memo dated May 30, 2005 (Page 9):

"Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in the interr0gations of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future att.acks, simply noting, "Soon you will know".

Also from the IG Report:

"On the other hand, KSM, an accomplished resist0r, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterb0ard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate, or incomplete."

Regardless of the debate over individual EITs, here is an undisputed fact: The CIA's Interr0gation Program was "effective" i.e. intelligence produced helped to collar operatives and thwart plots (logically saving lives and preventing terr0rist att.acks)

The IG report shows the efficacy of the overall program:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19048367/v1

"The detention of terr0rists has prevented them from engaging in further terr0rist activity, and their interrogation has provided intelligence that has enabled the identification and apprehension of other terr0rists, warned of terr0rists plots planned for the United States and around the world, and supported articles frequently used in finished intelligence publications for senior policymakers and war fighters. In this regard, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE PROGRAM HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE”

If one were to believe skeptics, the only ideological satisfying conclusion is that the CIA's Interr0gation Program was effective, but that EITs had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Considering the interrogation plans used on about two dozen detainees, this is practically IMPOSSIBLE.

[springer23]

Once again Dick Cheney was right!

[PaiaGirl]

Which is why is is so beloved by the entire U.S. citizenry....NOT

[barksalot]

At least Terror/sts do things the human way. Water boarding is out....they wouldn't want us to do anything like that to their fellow terror/sts so they wouldn't think of it. A nice clean s/ash across the thr0at is the only way to go. Although a little messy, if done correctly it's over quickly. Daniel Pearl's wife is thankful to this day that the terrori$ts chose this method to dispose of her husband.

[ccclj]

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/wais/cgi-bin/?p=2121

[PaiaGirl]

You do know that Condi Rice works here, right?

[PaiaGirl]

Gotta go gets some work done. See you all later (or as we say, "A hui hou")

If you get too nuts over these people advocating torture definitely go read The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer. Univ. of Manitoba. Just google, the book is online. It will make you feel better - or at least give you some perspective.

[katocat]

With all that body hair I probably could have gotten him to talk by ripping off a few band-aids.

[LeeCalif]

You shouldn't believe one word from the CIA.

They're a renegade organization that needs to be ended !

[fishingriver]

The greatest threat to our domestic freedom is to be surrounded by people who believe torture is acceptable.

[twintwine]

Many of those who believe that torture is acceptable also believe it is desirable, much like the thrill of a witch hunt. When somebody else is burning, those who are promoting the execution find themselves to be psychologically free of pain and suffering.

This could be an alternative interpretation of the Far Right's idea of freedom.

[fishingriver]

You are exactly right. They already say, "the president should have the freedom to do anything". Not even a hop,skip or jump to the idea that torture is a freedom and opposing it is leftist oppression.

[FogBelter]

The CIA doesn't have any credibility in the area of Al Qaeda, the Agency failed the United States on September 11th 2001. They were playing a too-cute-by-half game with KSM and his nephew in the Manila in the mid nineties, KSM's nephew, Ramzi Yousef, was the mastermind of the WTC bombing in 1993, so we already knew what he was up to. If the CIA would have taken down KSM in the Philippines there wouldn't have been a September 11th attack. At this point whatever the CIA says is just a case of back filling and ass covering from my perspective.

[jealousmonk]

"He [KSM] requested a Bible for study in his cell, according to the source, in order to better understand his enemy. "

That should keep him confused.