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If the healthcare systems in Canada and Europe are so much worse than ours, somebody ought to tell the Canadians and Europeans.
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QUESTION: Is there anyone here who's actually used a European health care system (worked there or whatever) and thinks that our system works better?
Also, one of the most Ironic things was that Iraq had better health care than the United States does before the invasion!
I mentioned it in another health care debate discussion a few weeks ago...
Living in a poor country with gawd-awful looking medical facilities I was more than worried when chest pains began. The last thing I wanted to do was go to a doctor here. Finally it became so bad I had to, if only to get confirmation I needed to go somewhere else for treatment.
With trepidation I went to the clinic. Unannounced, no appointment. After a 10-12 minute wait I was ushered in to a talk with a nurse (or possibly the equivelent of a PA), then to the doctor. A few minutes later another nurse walked me down to the x-ray department, where I had a full five minute wait. She escorted me back up, with the x-rays in hand.
The doctor sat and talked with me for 20 minutes, never hurried me a bit. I didn't need an appointment to come back in a week...jus
Have the prescription were free, the other half, not having to subsidize American drug companies were cheap. Cost for the visit - 0. Time invested - under 90 minutes, almost all of which was with a health professional, not in a waiting room or sitting alone in an examination room.
America's health system in broken in ways the health care bill can not mend.
On my way home this evening, I stopped by CVS to get a refill on Elmiron, a prescription for a debilitated bladder lining (im only 43 and have been healthy all of my life). Since my last prescription was a 3 month supply and my employer-provided health insurance renews on July 1, the drugstore had to update my insurance information. While I searched for my new card, the pharmacist said that I didn't have insurance the cost would be $1330.00 as opposed to $35.00! The sad thing is that had I not had the insurance I would have had to pay because I can't imagine walking around with the pain.
This is why we need a health program like the the French, the Swiss, and like the German. When is the American public going to wake up and demand that our people deserve no less than what other industrialized nations receive?
This is what Corporatism brings - this is not Capitalism.
Someone like you could easily be the hardest, most conscientious worker in the world and lose their job due to a recession like this. Then you'd either be dragging around from place to place working your way through a hopelessly complicated medical system or simply lying alone on a couch at home in pain.
Garrison Keillor said it beautifully:
"And now we must reform our health insurance system so that it reflects our common humanity. It is not decent that people avoid seeking help for want of insurance. It is not decent that people go broke trying to get well. You know it and I know it. Time to fix it.''
There are several things that bring down the US score. In the US, we count all babies if they are born alive - - in other countries they are not counted for 24 hours or several days. This brings down the live birth score. Also accidents are included in the death rate. We have 10 x more homicides than UK, 8 x more than France, and 5 x more than Canada. We also have more fatal traffic accidents which are included. Don't take the WHO score on it's word. Look at how everything is counted and then make your decision. We have better outcomes in Cancer and some major diseases. I do agree that other countries will use experimental medicine that is still outlawed in this country. Maybe the food and drug administration could speed up their approval process - - but that's a governement organization and shouldn't make you feel any more comfortable about government run healthcare.
you keep telling yourself that you are the best...see how that works out for you. Ask ANY Canadian, and we wouldn't trade our healthcare system for your broken one for all the tea in China.
I stand corrected. You do in fact have 5x the homicide rate of Canada. My bad.
Wow, do they ever keep you in the dark down there. Your FDA is so bad, Canada doesn't necessarily approve products just because the FDA did. In fact we've avoided a lot of bad drugs by running a much tighter ship when it comes to what countries can sell in Canada, especially American pharmaceutical companies. And if you can't believe WHO, then at least give them credit for being somewhere in the ballpark. So you might not be 37th in the world, you might be 36th. Woopie. You don't have better cancer outcomes for one simple reason. You're not counting all the people with cancer who can't get medical help, or have too large a deductible to afford treatment. You have WAY more the five times the homicide rate of Canada. We don't have the right to bear arms up here remember. And we're not as pissed off at each other either.
Be afraid Carol, be afraid of everything government ....but don't be afraid of "homeland security" massive organizations or "Patriot Acts"...th
And the source you're quoting for this is the irrefutable Betsy McCaughey. In fact it's pretty much verbatim her entire spew.
Have you ever lived in a country that had government health care? I have. That system is better.
I don't understand why people debate this as a partisan issue. It's obvious that our system doesn't work. Even if you like it now, it can't survive another 10 years. Shouldn't we simply look around and see which systems ARE working and adopt one of them? This isn't a theoretical issue. And we're all going to be old some day.
I do know for a fact that some years ago English Patients (no not the movie) had to go to France to get medical care. The UK gov would pay for it. That is not an indication of things to come under a public otpion nor a symptom of single payer. It's more a problem with UK gov managing things, Healthcare, trains, Tv, etc...
The French system is proof that it can work.
We Germans just like to complain - about almost everything. As one of our "leaders" rightly said a few years ago: "our situation is soooo bad - but - on such a high level"; this accurately describes our situation.
Now to our health care system. Everybody is covered by private or semi public insurance companies, payments are based on a percentage of income (with a cap), no income = no payments. Totally free choice of doctors and hospitals. As a user of the system for decades, 4 children born here, with 3 MDs and 6 nurses in the family both in Germany and the USA I know a few things about this system. I never had to wait for appointments or treatment. Only this past weekend there was a very big demonstration in the Munich football (soccer to the US) with thousands of people calling for not allowing the for profit US system to come to Germany.
As the pol said: "our situation is soooo bad - but - on such a high level".
Hi,
What is the cap ?
Our future has been spent. The bail out is like throwing water on a electrical fire. It will be a miracle if in 10 years if "real" unemployment falls below 10%. The middle class will be joining the ranks of the impoverished. If you have ever been to europe this is what our society will become. Some may like this others not. Our steady decline over the last 30 years from a great nation to a begger nation could have been avoided but greed triumphed over the public good .
hat tip to http://www
The nation as a whole has changed morally and ethically for the worse and we are reaping what we have all sowed..
Hate to say this, but We're number 37 in health care according to the World Health Organization ( http://www
Oman is number 8?! Morocco, Dominica and Costa Rica are ahead of us? Third World countries? Left wing Colombia? It's amazing more Americans don't support full socialization of our healthcare system, and why any AT ALL support what we have now. But we'd rather be in the company of China and Iran (with their love of executing their citizens), than France, Britain and Canada (with their responsible attitudes towards their citizens). America the land of the free and the (healthcare-wise) screwed.
Have you been outside the US?
Yes. Have you?
Yes, I have used the British, Scottish and Swedish medical systems: all better then the US system. LESS waiting, better service, better technology and knowledge.
I lived in the UK for three years and experienced using the NHS first hand. What can I say? It was great!
If you have a soar throat.
what is it about your post that makes me doubt your knowledge?
Is that one that flies? You must be from the south.
If you have a sore throat in the US and have poor or no insurance, it will cost you at least $140 just to see a doctor, if you can get in to see one. In the UK it costs nada.
Have you used the UK health system? I have, and I agree that it was very good.
Actually, health care is better in the UK than it is in the USA. Just ask someone who has lived in both countries. I have. Have you?
She's a top contender for the sha.llow bim.bo of the week award!
I lived there too. The system was wonderful (relatively speaking). I didn't think twice about going to the doctor when I didn't feel well. I never thought, "Well I'm not so sick that I have to go to a DOCTOR".
One of the things always said about the Canadian system is that 'care is rationed'. I don't know why the word 'rationed' is always used. Canada's system is based on triage: emergencies and life-threatening cases are first regardless of anything else. In the US, if you are in the ER to see a doctor (simply because that is the only way you can get to see one) and people from, say, a car crash are brought in and attention goes to the crash victims to stablize them, do you feel that your care has been 'rationed'? Or do you think that letting the guy who is bleeding to death go first is sensible?
Perhaps "delayed" would be a better word choice instead of "rationed". In late July, the Toronto Globe and Mail newspaper announced the death by heart attack of a semi-retired political consultant by the name of Jerry Yanover, age 62. He was already scheduled for heart surgery in Ottawa. Too bad he had his heart troubles in the summer when some Canadian surgical theaters are shut down to save money, or so I have been told by a Canadian. The article reporting the man's death did not discuss whether or not the surgery should have taken place right after his preliminary tests came back negative or whether that would even have been possible, given Canada's medical capacity constraints. Mr. Yanover was a single man and didn't have a champion (spouse) to battle with the hospital to move up his operation. I don't question the fact that Canada looks better on the WHO rankings than does the US. But I wonder whether Mr. Yanover would have had a different outcome if he had lived in the US AND had had health insurance.
We don't know really. Maybe if he was in the US his insurance could have been cancelled because he had acne when he was a teenager. Maybe the deductibles were too high he couldn't afford it. This is not to make light of Mr. Yanover's needless death, but the larger crime is having 47 million Americans with no health insurance, and thousands dying for lack of coverage.
BabblingBrooks might find this enlighteni
http://sic
Funny how Republicans want to be considered "experts" on health care in foreign countries.
For all their "knowledge" of other systems, why has there not been a SINGLE Republican fact-finding trips to places like Switzerland, The Netherlands, France, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, Canada, where they could seek first-hand proof of their claims that the health care systems in these places are so terrible, so inefficient, and that their residents are just clamoring for our for-profit insurance companies to come and save them. Why, they might even be able to interview people waiting and dying in lines for their rationed care....an

We know why they won't do it.....not when they can lie to their gullible base and get away with it.
First off, their xenophobia keeps them from travelling.
It's all a bunch of lies .
Most of those people haven't even been out of South Carolina.
Hey! There ain't nothing wrong with South Carolina ... other than it's full of people from South Carolina.
SC was the first state to secede during the civil war. Maybe they'd be interested in seceding again...?
Who creates (fabricates) these rankings? Can they be trusted to be honest, or do they have an agenda?
Deloitte did this one. If you're really interested in the integrity of this study than use a search engine. Cynical baseless assertions do no one any good.
An agenda? You sound like one of those global warming deniers. Anyway, if you want a real detailed look at this issue, from a real expert, I suggest this new book:
"The Healing Of America" by T.R. Reid
Or find his interview on Public Radio. He shows that we already have bits and pieces of every advanced health system in the developed world, right here, now! And that it would be simple to extent them to cover the entire nation.
Excellent, informative book for those who are willing to give up the ad hominem use of "isms" in their effort to derail a health program here that would benefit All Americans, not just the top 1%.
Instead of babbling here why don't you go on United Nations web page and look it up?
I'm Canadian and I believe the numbers for Canada.
In fact, I'd bet the satisfaction rating would be higher if we Canadians weren't so spoiled and have such high expectations. We get very bitchy when a doctor can't figure out what's wrong or changes our meds. But that's not the system -- that's medicine in general.
In this case, it's a survey of the people in those countries, asked to rank their own health care systems from A to F.
It's not an objective measure of the quality of health care in the countries surveyed, but a measure of satisfaction with the system among the survey's participants compared to the average cost per person; i.e. do the people think they're getting good health care.
Switzerland was the only country that spent more than half what health care costs in the US ($4,417 vs $7,290), but they had 66% of respondents rating Swiss health care care A or B, compared to only 22% for the US.
Any objective study comparing availability of treatments (coverage), waiting periods, and out of pocket costs rates the US "system" much lower.
It's back to the old criterion: Just to go the border and tabulate the toes pointed into the country for health care as opposed to those pointed out.
How about "medical tourism"? A growing phenomenon of AMericans going abroad for specific
health treatment. Funny how you never talk about them, when they're as numerous, if not moreso,
than the supposed people coming here for treatment. And certainly much more than Canadians crossing the border.
And where's that poll showing how foreigners want to scrap their system for ours? Where?
Oh, you can't find one!
http://con
http://www
Toes are pointed into this country for seasonal work, business connections, and guns. Not health care.
a report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care
http://www
You mean the growing numbers of Americans who are traveling out of the country to get health care they can't afford to get here? Yes, some Canadians come here for treatment they can't get in Canada -- but the Canadian government pays for it. In other words, Canadians have better access to American medical technology -- than some Americans.
Which border? Canada or Mexico? And how do you count those just passing through?
My father ended up collapsing on the sidewalk in downtown Dublin Ireland. Spent several days in the hospital there, plus ICU--he was not charged a pence or a pound for his stay and the care was top drawer. My sister gets excellent care there. She buys a small supplemental private insurance to take care of some extra costs that are not covered. Those companies do OK there. She has a choice. I want a choice too--the one the members of congress get. They are certainly no better than I am, expecially considering the GOOPer behavior standards.
how would your father feel about sitting in a wheel chair for up to a year while waiting for a hip replacement?
Better than if I spent a lifetime in a wheelchair because I couldn't afford to have surgery in the US. It is happening to people whether you want to admit it or not. You MUST work for the insurance or drug industry. Which one is it?
My wife had to wait a year for a Hip Replacement here cause it took that long to save up the money for the Copays. Getting the idea from your posts that you are an insurance company TroII
Oh, please. The time lags are not as extensive as you may think. I was diagnoses with stage 4 cancer -- and could not get an appointment with an oncologist! I was screaming mad!! Try getting sick and see how long you have to way for surgery.
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First Posted: 09-16-09 09:19 AM | Updated: 09-16-09 09:33 AM