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Credit Rating Agency Analysts Covering AIG, Lehman Brothers Never Disciplined

First Posted: 11/30/09 05:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 03:15 PM ET

Moodys

Analysts at the three biggest credit rating agencies who gave positive, investment-grade ratings to AIG and Lehman Brothers up until their collapse have not been fired or disciplined, the heads of the agencies admitted at a Congressional hearing today.

Moody's, Standard & Poor's, and Fitch Ratings all maintained at least A ratings on AIG and Lehman Brothers up until mid-September of last year. Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy Sept. 15; the federal government provided AIG with its first of four multibillion-dollar bailouts the next day.

Under questioning by Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.), Raymond W. McDaniel, Jr. of Moody's, Deven Sharma of S&P, and Stephen Joynt of Fitch said the analysts in charge of ratings for the now-disgraced firms are still employed.

McDaniel defended Moody's ratings of Lehman Brothers by pointing to the government-engineered rescue of Bear Stearns in March of 2008, arguing that it played an important role in Moody's analysts maintaining an A rating on the now-bankrupt firm. Joynt said his analysts have since done "a lot of thoughtful soul-searching."

The big three rating agencies have come under fire since the 2007 collapse in the subprime home mortgage market for issuing rosy ratings on a plethora of securities that are now considered to be junk. The Obama administration and Congress are exploring various reform proposals.

At the hearing today, the exchange between Speier and the agency chiefs was particularly contentious.

"You had rated AIG and Lehman Brothers as AAA, AA minutes before they were collapsing. After they did fail, did you take any action against those analysts who had rated them?" Speier asked. "Did you fire them? Did you suspend them? Did you take any actions against those who had put that kind of a remarkable grade on products that were junk?"

McDaniel answered first. "No, we did not fire any of the analysts involved in either AIG or Lehman," he replied. "An important part of our analysis was based on a review of governmental support that had been applied to Bear Stearns earlier in the year.

"Frankly, an important part of our analysis was that a line had been drawn under the number five firm in the market [Bear], and that likely number four would be supported as well. Additionally..."

Speier then interrupted him.

"But that's not analysis," the first-term Congresswoman shot back. "That's an opinion. I can have that kind of an opinion, and I'm not an analyst. How could you possibly make that kind of a decision based on an opinion when you have millions of people relying on that?"

"Our opinion applies to whether we believe an instrument will pay or will not pay," McDaniel responded.

"That was a political determination that you made, Mr. McDaniel," Speier retorted.

S&P's Sharma said his analysts also were not fired. Joynt of Fitch said the same. He said that Fitch analysts in charge of Lehman Brothers and AIG were "disappointed" and "surprised."

In an interview with the Huffington Post after the exchange, Speier said she was "flabbergasted" by the responses.

"It just makes the case over and over again of the lack of accountability in the financial services industry," she said. "It's heads they win, tails the public loses."

The analysts "should have been disciplined, and they should have gone back and looked at their modeling, which was flawed to begin with. We don't need your political opinions [off which] to base a rating of a security," she added.

"For all the talk of all this being such a deliberative, scientific process...to have this decision was remarkable to me."

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Analysts at the three biggest credit rating agencies who gave positive, investment-grade ratings to AIG and Lehman Brothers up until their collapse have not been fired or disciplined, the heads of the...
Analysts at the three biggest credit rating agencies who gave positive, investment-grade ratings to AIG and Lehman Brothers up until their collapse have not been fired or disciplined, the heads of the...
 
 
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11:00 AM on 10/07/2009
Credit rating agencies assess and label the riskiness of financial instruments (AAA being the best). As a recent New Yorker piece by James Surowiecki details, a problem arises because the rating agencies are privately owned and yet the S.E.C. anointed three of them as official ratings agencies—thus instilling a special trust in them by investors. And that was forty years ago. Today everything—from rules and regulations on financial instruments to interest rates—depends on these ratings.

So what happens when these agencies drastically overestimate the soundness of mortgage-backed securities? In part, that is what caused our current economic situation. We have become dependent on the accuracy of the ratings, and yet the agencies that issue them are unregulated and are far from objective. I must commend Mr. Surowiecki for this insight. When the agencies gave mortgage-backed securities a rating of AAA, investment flooded to them, creating the all-too-famous housing bubble. When, in light of the housing crash, the agencies harshly downgraded the securities, it drastically accelerated the bursting of the bubble.

Clearly we cannot continue at status quo. As in other under-regulated fields, Main Street became the victim of overzealous and unchecked standards. What can we do about these agencies? The New Yorker suggests scrapping the ratings agencies altogether, reasoning that no faith is better than false faith. I don’t know if that is the answer—it would be preferable to merely disconnect the ratings agencies from governmental endorsement.

Steve Berk
Berklawdc.com
10:42 PM on 10/01/2009
Not a surpise.

Obama's largest private donar was ..... Goldman Sachs
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05:28 PM on 10/01/2009
What is the point of 'disciplining' individual analysts?
Scapegoats?

It is the rating agencies themselves who are responsible - the ratings were given out on behalf of the rating agencies, not as the private opinions of individual analysts.

The whole rating system is the problem. And needs to be changed.

I am 'flabbergasted' that this is not even being discussed.
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speakingtruth2power
Not motivated by fear & loathing
02:08 PM on 10/01/2009
We are still living in Bush's Bizarro world in many ways.

Incompetence is rewarded and the whistle blowers are punished.
01:49 PM on 10/01/2009
TOXIC COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE- Morgan Stanley Real Estate

'TOXIC REIT' Ponzi scams.

IN 2007,according to a New York Times article citing data from Thomson Financial, there have been $281 billion worth of private equity deals in the U.S. so far this year -- that's triple the amount compared to the same period last year, which ended up breaking all sorts of records.

FORT WORTH, Texas--BUSINESS WIRE--Feb. 13, 1998--Crescent Real Estate Equities Company (NYSE:CEI), one of the country's largest real estate investment trusts, today announced that it has completed the sale of 8 million shares of 6.75% Series

April 2008 - Crescent Real Estate Equities Announces New Earnings Release Date
Explain this sale on May 22, 2007:Crescent Real Estate Equities Co. (NYSE: CEI)

Morgan Stanley Real Estate has agreed to acquire the Fort Worth, Texas-based REIT for a deal that totals $6.5 billion, including the assumption of debt.

Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO into AAA Bonds

July 8 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley plans to repackage a downgraded collateralized debt obligation backed by leveraged loans into new securities with AAA ratings in the first transaction of its kind, said two people familiar with the sale.

‘First transaction of its kind’?

Morgan Stanley is selling $87.1 million of securities that it expects to receive top AAA ratings and $42.9 million of notes graded Baa2, 2nd lowest investment grade by Moody"s Investors Service,

Texas-based REIT - GW Bush's ex partner- Richard Rainwater
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ReedYoung
global mean temperature, obviously INCREASING
04:37 PM on 10/01/2009
That's a lot more than White Water "scandal" ever was.
08:55 PM on 10/01/2009
if you follow my posts-

you can put it all together

Rick Scott- Richard Rainwater- G W Bush- HCA , Senator Frist, family and firends

Remember that bogus SEC investigation over his selling blind trust stock day before DROP?

Oh- there is TRILLIONS involved -

SO MUCH!

HCA- Largest Healthcare fraud in US History!

Largest privatte FINANCIAL FRAUD case ended 1 month before GW left office- Richard Rainwater's CFO of Columbia Homecare is acquitted!

One and only acquittal!

Jurors stated: Prosecutor did nto do his job

JP Morgan Chase and CITI both paid fines with SEC Fraud in 2003

After their ENRON fraud of course!





.
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:27 AM on 10/01/2009
gladys46 I'm a Fan of gladys46 I'm a fan of this user 193 fans permalink

Oh it matters to millions of Americans who are not better off now!

You must consider that the recession began at the end of Bush's reign ... if not, you may not assume that a president merely into 9 months in office can miraculously clear the Bush rubble !! President Obama has done well to keep the nation economically afloat !!!

Be grateful !
Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 10/01/2009
==============================================================
Point out exactly what Obama did to keep the nation economically afloat!!

And let me help you out. The presidents of our country do not "reign".
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
gladys46
Know Your Interests, Vote
11:32 AM on 10/01/2009
Will, I will take no time here to restate what has been posted here time & time again re the accomplishments (economically and otherwise) since his swearing in !!

I label Bush's terms as POTUS the "reign" .. since that is exactly how I felt during his tenure ... surely history will capture his horrific, inept, hotheaded, wrong headed performances as going it all alone !!!
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:51 AM on 10/01/2009
Sure you felt that way.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
barriosbabe
12:14 PM on 10/01/2009
Well said.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
gladys46
Know Your Interests, Vote
11:34 AM on 10/01/2009
Will, do you see that "1" pending comment ? It's mine to you!!!
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:50 AM on 10/01/2009
cookie?
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:24 AM on 10/01/2009
While we are on the subject of credit ratings, what is the US credit rating now?

Would there be any assumptions in that rating?
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:11 AM on 10/01/2009
GOPtakesEllisDee I'm a Fan of GOPtakesEllisDee I'm a fan of this user 174 fans permalink
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Two words - Leaman Brothers.
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 10/01/2009

==================================================================

One word. Lehman.
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GOPtakesEllisDee
Cryin' won't help you,prayin' won't do you no good
11:12 AM on 10/01/2009
lol...thank you.
11:08 AM on 10/01/2009
Krist, right wingers sure know how to stoopid up a thread.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
seekanddestroy
11:09 AM on 10/01/2009
X10.
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
10:59 AM on 10/01/2009
GOPtakesEllisDee I'm a Fan of GOPtakesEllisDee I'm a fan of this user 174 fans permalink
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Bull, it was based on assumptions.
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 10/01/2009
======================================================================

What hasn't it been?

And if you are upset about assumptions then you should be directing more of that energy towards the Obama administration since their assumptions continue to be way off.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
gladys46
Know Your Interests, Vote
11:02 AM on 10/01/2009
You assume !!
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:03 AM on 10/01/2009
8% unemployment if porkulus passes.

Save or create blah blah blah jobs.
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GOPtakesEllisDee
Cryin' won't help you,prayin' won't do you no good
11:05 AM on 10/01/2009
You rate based on facts, not assumptions.
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
11:07 AM on 10/01/2009
A rating has to do with the ability to service debt. Some type of assumption has to be made if you are determining a company's future ability to service their debt.

An assumption would have to be made on revenue. An assumption would have to be made on COG. An assumption would have to be made on interest rates.

All kinds of assumptions are made.
10:59 AM on 10/01/2009
Yes, let's invest our money and spend, spend, spend! No thanks! This just confirms what I've always thought, that the guy in the nice suit and tie with the glib tongue, is just that, a guy in a nice suit and tie with a glib tongue. America, we are not so stupid that we can't handle our own affairs. Educate yourself and proceed slowly without risk. Learn to handle your own money! There is no brilliant mind at the top of the heap, just another nice dressed gentleman with a great suit and tie. If you must, go put on your best outfit, stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself what a wonderful investment you've made. Then take yourself out for lunch with some of the money you've saved.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
PATina
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
11:07 AM on 10/01/2009
Good advice. I do wish more people would be more... appreciative?... not really the word I want to use but it will do... of their own intelligence... instead of always relying on "so called" experts to do their thinking for them.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
seekanddestroy
10:57 AM on 10/01/2009
Beck seems to be the ho't thread.....
10:56 AM on 10/01/2009
Republicans are sooooo cute ...

If they had their way we would have NO US auto industry and over 110 banks and other important businesses would be closed and the unemployment rate would be 40%.

They're not very bright but they sure are funny ... those c razy republicans.
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10:55 AM on 10/01/2009
Right wingers aren't wrong, never have been wrong and never will be wrong.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
seekanddestroy
10:56 AM on 10/01/2009
Purely sarcasm on your part....
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Midnightrain
Hume was the greatest!
10:57 AM on 10/01/2009
And if loving them is wrong, I don't wanna be right. Cause their wrong is right, and my right is wrong. There.
10:59 AM on 10/01/2009
lol
10:53 AM on 10/01/2009
Am I the only one who caught the significance of this comment?

""Frankly, an important part of our analysis was that a line had been drawn under the number five firm in the market [Bear], and that likely number four would be supported as well."

Doesn't this mean that they gave everybody above the line a triple A or double A rating largely on the basis that the government would bail them out if they failed? Isn't anybody upset by the cynicism in that statement? Or is this one of the lessons in Finance 101 -- Gaming the System, taught in American business schools?
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willt7311
Middle aged average guy.
10:55 AM on 10/01/2009
A credit rating is based on the company's ability to service their debt. Do you think a company being backed by the government is going to have a problem servicing its debt?

Just ask GM.
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GOPtakesEllisDee
Cryin' won't help you,prayin' won't do you no good
10:57 AM on 10/01/2009
Two words - Leaman Brothers.
10:55 AM on 10/01/2009
it`s fraud