France To Donate $1.5 Billion To Electric Car Tech

Yahoo! News:

France launched the "battle of the electric car" Thursday as it unveiled plans to invest 1.5 billion euros on infrastructure for the two million electric and hybrid cars it wants on the road by 2020.

Read the whole story: Yahoo! News

Comments

[StephBr]

See my brother in law's trucking biz in France. They just started delivering the inner cities with electric trucks made in England.
http://www.deret.fr/
Use Google translate if you are unfortunate enough to not understand French :-)
http://www.deret.fr/

[The Meek]

I wish I spoke French, but my brain just can't absorb it at my age. I went to |Paris once and really liked. Everyone was real nice to me. I'm not a city person though and would like to spend some time in the country side.

[Ping]

In the end it's big business and all of the posts here for electric cars ignore the fact that batteries require copper and lithium. Both metals will need to be imported in order to manufacture electric cars. Cooper form Australia and lithium from Bolivia. So in the end we will be trading in our dependency to Saudi Arabia to be dependent to Bolivia and South America. Not much of a difference.

[StephBr]

Lithium batteries is a temporary technology. In a few years it will be forgotten.

[Iccarus]

Right, but it will take more than a few years.

[The Meek]

OK Ping, it is time for you to tell me what you think is the answer to our transportation and energy problems.

[Ping]

First of all there is no such thing as clean energy. So nuclear is the best bang for the buck. and the fuel that is the cleanest for transportation purposes is hydrogen. Batteries are just too dirty and weigh too much to be used in large quantities.

It is also not practical to continue using internal combustion engines to power automobiles. Electric motors are more efficient and last longer and are easier to rebuild. Someone recently suggested electric plug ins cars for short hauls and hydrogen for longer trips, but I think that it should be reversed...hydrogen for short hauls and electric for longer trips by getting electricity from an exterior source like a third rail on subway systems.

There has been a system available for about 10 years that allows users to pour water into a unit and get enough hydrogen to power a car for about 35 miles in your own home. But it is not efficient since it requires a lot of electricty to generate hydrogen.

[ReedYoung]

Nuclear is a bad idea.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-kerry/taking-control-of-our-ene_b_304882.html?show_comment_id=32075148#comment_32075148

Electric cars are ready for prime-time now.
http://www.shelbysupercars.com/news-012209.php

Lead-acid batteries are not ideal, but they're no more harmful than the lead-acid batteries we already use in our cars. 15 or 20 of those in an all-electric vehicle would be MUCH better than one such battery, plus CO2 emissions from current petroleum vehicles. The "toxic battery" argument against all-electric vehicles right now makes the perfect the enemy of the good. Don't fall for it.

And charging these from 100% clean energy is not unrealistic, just unprofitable for Bechtel and other nuclear waste corporations.
http://cleantechnica.com/2009/04/01/can-concentrating-solar-power-outshine-fossil-fuels/

It's either that, or we all die in oil wars.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-powers/why-the-military-is-worri_b_280529.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frances-beinecke/us-military-says-we-need_b_255680.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070415/na-gen-us-global-warming-security/

These are not environmental activists opining, these are military professionals using the best science and military intelligence available to them.

[The Meek]

There is something wrong with my posts. They are not going where I intended, please forgive me. there seems to be a lot of traffic on this on my network at this time.

[ReedYoung]

What GAO Found
Increasing the use of plug-ins could result in environmental and other
benefits, but realizing these benefits depends on several factors. Because plug-
ins are powered at least in part by electricity, they could significantly reduce
oil consumption and associated greenhouse gas emissions. For plug-ins to
realize their full potential, electricity would need to be generated from lower-
emission fuels such as nuclear and renewable energy rather than the fossil
fuels—coal and natural gas—used most often to generate electricity today.
However, new nuclear plants and renewable energy sources can be
controversial and expensive. In addition, research suggests that for plug-ins to
be cost-effective relative to gasoline vehicles the price of batteries must come
down significantly and gasoline prices must be high relative to electricity.

Nowhere does GAO declare "it was not worth it."

[ReedYoung]

What GAO Recommends

GAO recommends the Department of Energy (DOE)—in consultation with other agencies—propose
legislative changes to resolve conflicts among energy and vehicle acquisition requirements. GAO also
recommends DOE and the General Services Administration (GSA) provide guidance to help agencies
make decisions about acquiring plug-ins. GSA agreed with our recommendations, and DOE did
not comment.

Not one word of the report really suggests that electric vehicles are "not worth it." Decide for yourself what that means that Ping is full of.

[The Meek]

Good, don't look.

[The Meek]

This is for Ping.

[Ping]

Need an independent study. Not industry propaganda.

[PhilipTaylor]

THIS Revolution is HAPPENING NOW!

I have a 40 mpg car and someday soon will have a 99 mpg car and someday after that a 320 mpg car and someday after that an Electric car! I will be able to buy roll out and plug in solar film and perhaps even small wind turbines for some people where wind is prevalent!

This REVOLUTION can NOT BE STOPPED NOW!

So sit back and enjoy the BENEFITS of near ZERO Importing of 01L someday sooner than you think!

Why should G0LDMAN be able to make a G1ANT Derivatives Scam out of Cap and Trade?

If anyone is going to SELL Permits and Manage Permit trades it should be a simple Government Run Internet application using debit CARDS!

[PhilipTaylor]

That is a 95% improvement in MPG over the next 5 to 10 years!

That will clear our a lot of burned Fuel from our environment!

[Emerald1943]

Now, if France can do this, why can't the USA??

Oh, I forgot! A lack of campaign finance reform! Not a particularly s e x y subject for most American couch potatoes but one of vital importance!

As long as the big corporations...big oil, big insurance, big pharma, big etc, etc, rule our legislative process, we American citizens lose...and lose big! Our lawmakers are bought out by the companies with the deepest pockets to further their agendas. We no longer have a voice in our government!

In the 90's, GM came out with the EV-1 that was wildly popular with the people who were fortunate enough to lease one. At the end of those leases, GM refused to sell the cars, took them all back, and destroyed them completely, citing a "lack of demand"! Had GM not sold out to the big oil companies, they could have been on top of the electric-car world right now...and not in bankruptcy! And don't think for one minute that there were not politicians involved in this little deal!

Oh well, good for France! Maybe someday, we'll catch up! I just hope it's not too late!

[jsarets]

The impact of campaign finance is substantial but often overstated.

First of all, in the Senate, where the political elite only stand for reelection every six years, what happens between elections is at least as important as what happens on election years. That means developing a brand identity based on ideological consistency.

At this level, politicians are more sensitive to free media than paid media. The most important consideration is to give the media what they've come to expect so that they can't drum up any controversy that rubs off on their carefully-honed public image.

Corporations don't have to finance campaigns in order to get their way. All they have to do is finance the media by advertising their own brands. The media is the driving force in politics, especially at the national level, and they destroy politicians who don't play ball.

If you want to single out just one problem with American politics, "it's the media, stupid."

[StephBr]

I wonder why the lobbyists are needed if the media is so powerful.

[MarkInEugene]

America's conservatives have yet to come to terms with the failings of capitalism, free markets, growth at any cost and deregulation. There is a very vocal minority that continuously stops progressive change in this country. You know the group that likes to brag about American prowess as our healthcare system crumbles, our manufacturing base declines, and the wealthy elite take more and more while our legislators bail them out and do their bidding through lobyists and entrenched capitalist ideals that no longer work for the country.

[hippie4ever]

Private autos are harmful to the environment, even if they're electric. It's far more environmental to establish a comprehensive network of electric trains such as Europeans have enjoyed for decades. This nation, the USA, is washed up and bankrupt, morally, economically, technologically. Greed killed our country, and the ruling class denies us what every other developed society enjoys and even takes for granted.

Get a clue: not only was Chicago rejected by the world, but also Obama's phony call for change, and American culture in general. Our brief foray as a world-inspiring social experiment is done, and so are we. It's time to make the necessary changes whether the elite approves or not. We the People still have the power, if we can only pry our collective selves off the sofa and get over this toxic, frustrating apathy.

Considering the poor health of overweight citizens, I suggest we establish bicycle "freeways" within urban zones to take bikers off the streets (which are dangerous) and smooth out some of the steepest hills to make this healthy & environmental transport easier for the average person, the non-athlete.

[jsarets]

Trains are great when they go where you're going and avoid the hassle of city parking.

But even in Europe, the carbon footprint of electric trains is higher than cars per passenger-mile. They can't keep the trains full at off-peak hours much better than we manage in America, and a half-empty train is essentially a motorcade of Hummers.

Passenger cars should become smaller and lighter with more efficient powertrains. Instead of paving roads with mined gravel bound in petroleum resin, we should use recycled glass bound in recycled plastic. We could levy a sprawl tax on suburban development that funds tax credits on urban development (that would really piss off the John Wayne impersonators in the GOP!).

There are many things we can do to reduce the environmental impact of transportation, but bullet trains are not silver bullets. In fact, high-speed trains aren't much better than airliners.

[QuiteSeriously]

The all-electric MINI-E is also a blast to drive. The 200 hp motor has loads of torque at any speed. I'm driving #411 out of 500 for one year and then (boo hoo) I have to give it back, and I don't know where I will be able to get an all-electric car to replace it.

[jsarets]

Wow, lucky you, that's the hottest ticket in motoring right now. It's cooler to show up at the red carpet in a MINI E than in any Aston, Bentley, Rolls, or Maserati. Who do you know that allowed you the privilege of paying $850/mo for literally the coolest object in the world?

[ReedYoung]

Their electric motors come from AC Propulsion, www.acpropulsion.com. You can buy one, then have one of many high-performance mechanics around their headquarters near Pasadena, CA, have the same engine put into a gas Mini, or just about any other small car.

[jsarets]

Social democracy is a somewhat awkward means of giving the people a voice in the development of industrial policy, but it is better than leaving it up to investment bankers as in neoclassical capitalism.

Of course ideally we would invest in our future on the community and workplace levels rather than on the state/national or corporate levels where power is too easily misplaced and misused.

In my view, the battery-electric vehicle will remain a somewhat niche product for some time, limited to small city cars, fleet cars, and status symbols. Plugin hybrids will forever remain status symbols.

I'm not very optimistic about this generation of high-power lithium chemistries (LiFePO4 and LiMnO2). The energy and cost densities just aren't where they need to be without huge subsidies.

I would be more optimistic about the barium titanate EDL capacitors that EEStor is developing, but there's no reason to trust them because they operate as if they're developing stealth bombers.

With current technology, my preferred embodiment would be a series hybrid with a constant-speed turbocharged diesel engine and a matched pair of harmonical­ly-switche­d polyphase induction motor generators, with a small (~1kWh) lithium-ion capacitor in between as a power buffer.

[jymfrancais]

The french jump started the electric car industry by simply
buying a lot of them for government use in cities
Mail is now delivered by a postman driving an electric car
in a lot of cities in France.Ithink they plan to order 200.000
of them by 2010

[Iccarus]

That's funny, last year I was trying to talk the Mail Carrier in Lake Placid Florida to convert their mail truck to electric. Allot of people liked the idea.

[jimf1673]

Battery development, reliability and miniaturization are always the primay problems to solve concerning anything electrical. There was a recent article about the death of the inventor of the portable phone (eventually the cell phone). He was holding a phone about a foot long. As soon as the battery problem is solved for size, weight and reliability, gasoline powered cars will be a thing of the past.

[marco01inexile]

What, they're not waiting for China and India to solve the problem first?

[marco01inexile]

Conservatives are allowing their nemesis to beat us!

I for one, am AOK with it. How soon can a buy a French electric car?

[Iccarus]

You can get a conversion of different cars right now in the USA. Here's a guy I took an EV seminar from in Florida. He does conversions and has some ready to go stuff.

http://greenshedconversions.com/default.aspx

[The Meek]

http://www.greenmotorsport.com//products_and_services/3,1,388,17,27462.html

Another one if you are in Europe.

[jennylynn]

You can get one tomorrow so stop whining.

[mamacat]

The pictures of the electric mini-cooper look pretty sexy.

[QuiteSeriously]

Ping, what a joker you are. The batteries in the MINI-E only weigh a quarter of a ton. If you ever actually drive an electric car you will want one.