Avigdor Lieberman: No Chance For Israeli-Palestinian Peace Deal

JERUSALEM — President Barack Obama's Mideast envoy finds himself increasingly hamstrung, with Israel's foreign minister on Thursday all but ruling out a peace deal for years to come and the Palestinian leader weakened by his decision not to push for a Gaza war crimes tribunal against Israel.

Jordan's King Abdullah II added a gloomy warning that prospects for peace are "sliding into darkness."

Obama envoy George Mitchell, visiting Israeli and Palestinian leaders for the second time in three weeks, is trying relentlessly to bring the sides together for talks, but the obstacles he faces are daunting.

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman suggested that the two sides come up with a long-term interim arrangement that would ensure stability, while at the same time putting off a final deal. He recommended leaving the toughest issues – such as the status of disputed Jerusalem and a solution for Palestinian refugees who lost homes amid war – "to a much later stage."

"Anyone who says that within the next few years an agreement can be reached ending the conflict ... simply doesn't understand the situation and spreads delusions, ultimately leading to disappointments and an all-out confrontation here," Lieberman told Israel Radio.

Lieberman's suggestion will not necessary translate into policy, which is set by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Netanyahu's office wouldn't comment when asked if Lieberman's comments reflected his opinion. But other senior Netanyahu confidants share similarly skeptical views on peacemaking.

Lieberman's approach runs counter to U.S. efforts to reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal quickly. The Palestinians have said they will not agree to an interim peace deal that would put off a resolution of the conflict indefinitely.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said Thursday that restarting negotiations is an urgent matter. "The time has come for both sides to agree to just cut right through all of this and get back to peace talks," he said.

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On the Palestinian side, Israel's punishing winter offensive in Gaza deepened anger toward Israel and further reduced whatever sentiment there was for concessions to Israel in a peace deal. It also underlined Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' powerless position in Gaza, overrun by Hamas militants in 2007.

Abbas is walking a tightrope, trying not to appear intransigent to the White House while seeking to retain credibility with Palestinians accusing him of appeasing the Israelis.

On Wednesday, Gaza professors threw shoes at his defaced image and West Bank commentators called for his resignation, signs Abbas may have miscalculated in bowing to what Palestinian officials say was intense U.S. pressure to suspend Palestinian diplomatic efforts to get Israeli officials put on trial for war crimes in Gaza.

Nearly 1,400 Palestinians were killed in the war, including hundreds of civilians. Israel, which lost 13 civilians and soldiers in the war, launched the campaign to end years of Hamas rocket fire on Israeli border towns.

A 575-page U.N. report about the fighting alleges that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes, something both sides deny.

Mitchell is due to hold separate meetings with Netanyahu and Abbas on Friday.

On his last trip, Mitchell failed to get them to the negotiating table. Abbas insisted that Israel halt all construction in West Bank settlements before talks could resume, but Netanyahu refused to make such a commitment.

Though Abbas and Netanyahu later attended a three-way meeting with Obama on the fringes of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, the two sides remain far apart.

Jibril Rajoub, a leading member of Abbas' Fatah movement, told reporters on Thursday that Abbas would tell Mitchell again when they meet that the Palestinians will not resume talks unless Israel freezes settlement construction.

Jordan's king was interviewed by the Israeli Haaretz daily, which planned to run the full text on Friday. In an excerpt on its front page Thursday, the paper quoted Abdullah as saying "We are sliding back into the darkness" because of lack of movement toward peace.

Despite the gloomy atmosphere, Mitchell said Thursday he believes in his mission.

"President Obama ... and the U.S. government remain deeply and firmly committed toward achieving a comprehensive peace," he told reporters as he arrived for a meeting with Israeli President Shimon Peres. "They believe there is no alternative to that if all the people of the region are to be able to live in peace."

Comments

[pabelmont]

Hooray! The "peace process" is officially declared over (Israeli FM says that Israel will not make peace anytime soon). this gives the US a wonderful opportunity. We can stop pretending that this or that or the other "interferes" with the "peace process" because there is neither a "peace process" nor a [real] peace process any more. The US is now free to do important things.

Thus, for example, President Obama could stop politely asking Israel to halt new building of settlements and start [1] telling Israel that all the settlements are illegal and all the settlers are present in occupied territories illegally, which is the view of all the world except Israel and, in particular, the well considered legal view of the International Court of Justice's 9 July 2004 advisory opinion; and [2] demanding that Israel remove all settlers (people) from all occupied territories by a date-certain (say Jan 1, 2011) and donate all the settlements (buildings) and Israelis-only highways in the occupied territories (except as the same are destroyed by Israel) to the Palestinians for their unrestricted use, by the same date.

Removal of the settlers would ease the rigors of the occupation and thereby benefit the Palestinians. It would also strengthen the Rule of Law.

Would AIPAC allow this? Certainly not. Not even J-Street would allow this. Congress would stand up on its legs and howl, "Rule of Law? Never!". But it's nice to dream.

[duxguts]

Why was this man not nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? That's what I want to know.

[mikesw]

Looks like Israel has its very own Dick Cheney!

[Ben Cohn]

What Zionist enterprise is everyone talking about? It's like you all actually believe in some worldwide Jewish conspiracy. Well I can tell your first hand from a Jew, I have never been called and invited to some secret meeting, and if there's some coffer of money were all suppose to get, I'd like my cut.

Now if your definition of ZIonism is a belief that Israel has a right to exist, then we are starting from two incredibly different places and frankly can't even have a rational conversation on it. Further, I know a lot of American Jews...not very many of us are licking our chops to go live in Israel...just think you all might want to rethink the zionism part of your argument. Arguments about poor human rights and the settlements are all valid, but i don't think Zionism really means anything anymore. Even when it did have a meaning, the whole idea of zionism was just that, an ideal. It was never meant to be taken seriously and most jews do not think there is some call to return home. The whole idea was picked up on by the Nazi's as anti-semetic propaganda. It wasn't real then, and its not real now. You can all do better.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/avigdor-lieberman-no-chan_n_313605.html?page=2&show_comment_id=32465248#comment_32465248

[Goefel]

Nice try Ben. A little too late for this lame argument.

[Ben Cohn]

What Zionist enterpirse is everyone talking about? It's like you all actually believe in some worldwide Jewish conspiracy. Well I can tell your first hand from a Jew, I have never been called and invited to some secret meeting, and if there's some coffer of money were all suppose to get, I'd like my cut.

Now if your definition of ZIonism is a belief that Israel has a right to exist, then we are starting from two incredibly different places and frankly can't even have a rational conversation on it. Further, I know a lot of American Jews...not very many of us are licking our chops to go live in Israel...just think you all might want to rethink the zionism part of your argument. Arguments about poor human rights and the settlements are all valid, but i don't think Zionism really means anything anymore. Even when it did have a meaning, the whole idea of zionism was just that, an ideal. It was never meant to be taken seriously and most jews do not think there is some call to return home. The whole idea was picked up on by the Nazi's as anti-semetic propaganda. It wasn't real then, and its not real now. You can all do better.

[larce1948]

Israel does not want peace. They have never wanted peace. They have all the advantage. Year after year they take more and more. 'Animal Farm". The formerly oppressed are now the oppressors. Greater Israel is not some academic debate. It is what the leadership wants.

[Justtellthetruth]

Lieberman and Netanyahu could care less how many Americans, Palestinians, or even Israelis die as the result of the the terrorism that their internationally condemned settlements program inspires.

They are NOT allies of the US, and we should cut them off completely until a government arises there that will comply with the wishes of virtually the entire world to end the settlements completely,

This is what we have don in Pakistan, in Palestine, and many other places that had aid cut off for behavior that was hurting US interests. WHY NOT ISRAEL????­??????????­??????????­??????????­??????????

[ray01]

Why not Israel?

Because Israel illegally occupies the US Senate, House & Oval Office.

[mamacat]

When one side has all the planes, tanks, and artillery, and funding from the U.S.A., why would they want to negotiate?

[stargazer13]

I agree I love all people but Israel,s leader,s should really stop acting like God,s spoiled children

[ray01]

Israel Doesn't Want Peace pt 2

Damage to careers:

Maintaining the occupation and a state of non-peace employs hundreds of thousands of Israelis. Some 70,000 people work in the security industry. Each year, tens of thousands finish their army service with special skills or a desirable sideline. For thousands it becomes their main career: professional soldiers, Shin Bet operatives, foreign consultants, mercenaries, weapons dealers. Therefore peace endangers the careers and professional futures of an important and prestigious stratum of Israelis, a stratum that has a major influence on the government.

Damage to quality of life:

A peace agreement would require equal distribution of water resources throughout the country (from the river to the sea) between Jews and Palestinians, regardless of the desalination of seawater and water-saving techniques. Even now it's hard for Israelis to get used to saving water because of the drought. It's not difficult to guess how traumatic a slash in water consumption to equalize distribution would be.

Damage to welfare:

As the past 30 years have shown, settlements flourish as the welfare state contracts. They offer ordinary people what their salaries would not allow them in sovereign Israel, within the borders of June 4, 1967: cheap land, large homes, benefits, subsidies, wide-open spaces, a view, a superior road network and quality education. Even for those Israeli Jews who have not moved there, the settlements illuminate their horizon as an option for a social and economic upgrade.

[ray01]

Israel Doesn't Want Peace

Israel Knows That Peace Doesn't Pay
Amira Hass

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1084656.html

Successive Israeli governments since 1993 certainly must have known what they were doing, being in no hurry to make peace with the Palestinians. As representatives of Israeli society, these governments understood that peace would involve serious damage to national interests.

Economic damage:

The security industry is an important export branch - weapons, ammunition and refinements that are tested daily in Gaza and the West Bank. The Oslo process - negotiations that were never meant to end - allowed Israel to shake off its status as occupying power (obligated to the welfare of the occupied people) and treat the Palestinian territories as independent entities. That is, to use weapons and ammunition at a magnitude Israel could not have otherwise used on the Palestinians after 1967. Protecting the settlements requires constant development of security, surveillance and deterrence equipment such as fences, roadblocks, electronic surveillance, cameras and robots. These are security's cutting edge in the developed world, and serve banks, companies and luxury neighborhoods next to shantytowns and ethnic enclaves where rebellions must be suppressed.

The collective Israeli creativity in security is fertilized by a state of constant friction between most Israelis and a population defined as hostile. A state of combat over a low flame, and sometimes over a high one, brings together a variety of Israeli temperaments: rambos, computer wizards, people with gifted hands, inventors. Under peace, chances of meeting would be greatly reduced.

[CigarGod]

You can hardly expect Hamas to agree to lessons on the holocaust when Israeli's are trying to outlaw the teaching of the nakba.

[Aziat]

I love how the anti israel crowd didn't even read the article but yet turned the comments section into a hate israel fest.

[BKearney]

i read the article what part shows isreal in a good light? what would make me not dislike the government of that country?

[Chazmania]

I am so sic of the stubbornness of these people and there region of the planet!
There will be no piece because they act like a bunch of bratty little kids in a play ground!
Fighting over who has rights to the sand! I view this whole thing as massively Idiotic as they find massively more justifications for it! Children crusades!

[tsdm]

I do not understand why all those attacks on Israel? The current FM tells the world that under the current circumstances peace is an illusion. The Palestininans are loud, they like victimhood, they do not like compromise, they certaily would not let the Jews pray at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, so the hell with them.

Can one imagine Jews living under Hamas controled governemnt?

The Jews have experienced that kind of existance, and it is time to cut the ties and state clearly- Israel is for Israel. Unless the Palestinians will start respecting Isreal, Israel will not respect the Palestininas.

[jwcmass]

Could you please tell me when the Israelis --let me rephrase-- the Israeli Government HAS respected the Palestinians?

The only PM who was committed to peace was Yitzhak Rabin's-- and it wasn't a Palestinian who assassinated him, was it.

And what do you mean by "they (the Palestinians) like victimhood"?

Do you think the Jews of Europe "liked victimhood'?

Or the slaves in America and the Caribbean?

Or those countries colonized by European powers?

Do you think the families of those 300 children recently killed in Gaza by the IDF are enjoying the experience?

Are the Palestinians all some sort of secret masochists?

You would be pretty "loud" if one of your children was killed.

And this Foreign Minister is a public, and unrepentant racist. His party platform has planks in it that would strip Israeli Arabs of their citizenship. I guess he thinks the ethnic cleansing of 1948 wasn't thorough enough. he also wants to criminalize any commemoration of the Nakba-- that very same ethnic cleansing-- how Orwellian of him. He thinks he can changge history by controlling how people think.

[tsdm]

I wish the Palestinians would think the same way as you do. Perhaps they would sit down and talk PEACE and BUILDING a future.
Instead, they declare that they want to destroy Israel, they want to control Palestine, where Jews would be subject to Islam according to Hamas/hizb­ollah/Tali­ban etc. Judaism and Islam do not mix, so a little pragmatism, respect and goodwill would go a long way.

[S1m0n]

I don't think that there was anyone in the White House who has been disillusioned by Lieberman's declaration, and the fact that he has said it changes abolutely nothing on the ground. He was never going to buy in whatever ever happened.

[jwcmass]

Well, one can only hope that this White house will take a page out of George H W Bush's book.

He stood firm on denying Israel loan guarantees for building illegal settlements in East Jerusalem (and has anyone noticed how much bigger the city has become by annexing land from the West Bank?) and brought down an Israeli government (one of those national unity deals. The unity ended quickly) .

I happened to be in Israel at the time, and boy were they unhappy. But it got Yitzhak Shamir to Madrid, and led to the Labor return to power in the elections of 1992, with Yitzhak Rabin as Prime Minister--