Obama And Progressives Split On Patriot Act, Terrorism Policy

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LARRY MARGASAK | 10/15/09 11:35 AM | AP

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WASHINGTON — New cracks are opening in the relationship between President Barack Obama and his liberal allies in Congress over his desire to continue some Bush-era tactics against terrorism and his opposition to protecting reporters from revealing their sources in national security cases.

Some supporters are grousing that Obama, just like former President George W. Bush, is too willing to cite national security as a reason for invading Americans' privacy and restricting their right to know what the government is doing.

In recent weeks, the administration has asked Congress to extend key provisions of the USA Patriot Act that expire at year's end, sections that allow roving wiretaps on multiple phones, seizing of business records and a never-used authority to spy on non-Americans suspected of being terrorists even though they have no known connection to a recognized terrorist group.

Liberals have expressed a willingness to continue those practices, but they also are demanding restrictions on government surveillance and seizures and an increase in congressional scrutiny of government operations.

Justice Department witnesses, in two public hearings, repeatedly refused to answer questions from exasperated lawmakers on what Patriot Act changes the administration would support.

Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., said he had feared "the president would be surrounded with a series of presidential lawyers and advisers who would say, 'You must preserve prerogatives of the presidency.'"

"Well, this is precisely what happened," Feingold said.

He's not the only one complaining.

Story continues below

House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., compared a witness the Obama administration sent to Capitol Hill to the witnesses dispatched by the Bush administration, which fought battles with liberals over enemy combatants, secret overseas prisons, warrantless wiretaps and the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

"You know, you sound like a lot of people from DOJ (Department of Justice) who have come here before," Conyers told the recent witness.

Last week, the administration finally did tell lawmakers what changes it would accept in the Patriot Act, but Americans learned little: The briefing for lawmakers was in closed session because classified information was discussed.

Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said prior to the classified briefing on the Patriot Act that he was willing to move ahead with changes with or without the blessings of the administration.

"If I don't have their views, I'm just going to pass it the way I want it," he said. "I try to work with them. If they're not interested in that, I'll pass it the way I want to pass it."

On a bill to shield reporters from having to disclose their anonymous sources in federal court, the administration infuriated a chief Senate Democratic sponsor by eliminating a proposed judicial balancing test between national security secrets and the public's right to information.

"The administration's opposition to the core of this bill came as a complete surprise and doesn't show much concern for compromise," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., "This turns the bill's near-certain passage into an uphill fight."

The media shield bill, co-sponsored by Schumer along with chief sponsor Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., is partly a response to a judge's decision in 2005 to jail New York Times reporter Judith Miller for 85 days for refusing to identify the Bush administration officials who spoke with her about CIA employee Valerie Plame.

The complaints are not all one way.

Administration officials have also expressed unhappiness with the actions of some of Obama's supporters in Congress, particularly language in spending bills prohibiting the relocation of the U.S. terrorism detainees held at the Guantanamo prison, which Obama has vowed to close.

"The restrictions that we've had to deal with on the Hill give me great concern," said Attorney General Eric Holder, disputing the claim that Guantanamo detainees are too dangerous to be brought to U.S. soil.

Lawmakers acknowledge that Obama's perspective looking out from the White House, where he gets daily intelligence briefings, is different from the one he had when, as the junior senator from Illinois, he was on the opposite side of some issues.

National security disputes "are really under the category of separation of powers," where the executive branch and Congress both assert their constitutional authority, said Specter. He suggested those disputes might better be resolved by the federal government's third branch.

"I want courts to make these decisions on close questions," Specter said.

WASHINGTON — New cracks are opening in the relationship between President Barack Obama and his liberal allies in Congress over his desire to continue some Bush-era tactics against terrorism and ...
WASHINGTON — New cracks are opening in the relationship between President Barack Obama and his liberal allies in Congress over his desire to continue some Bush-era tactics against terrorism and ...
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Dear Mr President

remember last election cycle you made some pretty big promise,s

when you made these statements to us the people we agreed that change was desperately needed

WA Happened !!!! we get the same ol song and dance called Bait and switch

only this time the people will not be lulled like a baby back to sleep we the people are awake !

and yes I will admit things may be difficult some times to bring about change But Mr president we did give you a man date and you have continually failed to use it !!

98% of American,s were against bank bail out . but the banks got our money any way Please explain Why American voice,s were not heeded . for almost 100 years we have been bought and sold by these bank,s and these banks have and will continue to bankrupt us over and over again !!

we are fighting two war,s to what end ? nothing good I,am sure

you also promised we the people deserved to receive the same health care that you your self receive

Where is our deserved right to the same health care you and other elected get

you along with congress have not acted in the best interest of the American people ! by voting to keep unconstitutional P - Act in force against us the good people of this country !!

you said you were against spying on American people !!! and the spying continues and has

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 10/16/2009
- brady61995 I'm a Fan of brady61995 86 fans permalink
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the banks had and have us all hostage. they froze all credit lines until the fed refilled the balloon, the fed also knew if they did not unfreeze the banks behaviour that payroll and small loans and credit cards that we are all choking on at 27% interest would stop the economy in its tracks. If the fed took over the banks there would be out cry that we have socialized the banks and were all comminust. its not always black and white. the congress and president need to pass laws and regulate the banks not take them over. they need accountability. The fed could open its own bank and call it the national bank but they would create jobs and lower insterest rates and then big banking would fall and we cant have that in america. capitalism has lost any control the fed once had and the rich are cashing in every day as the rest of america suffers broke jobless without helthcare and we all sit and let it happen.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 10/17/2009
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DEMOCRACY
Freedom to pursue happiness as you perceive it to be.

CAPITALISM
Freedom to enrich yourself upon the misery of anyone less intelligent.

As the purpose of this world is to prove the harm in it,
all be intelligent design, why in the world allow such an
evĭl thing as capitalism to continue such misery?

Simple, you cannot have the freedom to pursue happiness
unless you know enough to stay out of misery.

Well then, why not give everyone a conviction that they have more then
they deserve? Main problem in the world being that most feel they
deserve more and with a clear conscience take all they can take.

Simple, to pursue happiness free of the deceit of liars we need to know
how to spot a liar, and to achieve this we need a full and perfect
understanding of darkness.

Darkness: a liar using a pretense of good to hide an intent to do evĭl

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 10/16/2009

Everything that Bush has done must be undone. The patriot act is one of the most unpatriotic pieces of legislation ever enacted. Terrorism is a domestic law-enforcement problem, not a military one. Therefore, civil rights and the Constitution must be respected.
The more Obama is like Bush, the more respect I lose for him. The more of Bush's programs he undoes, the more I will respect him.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 10/16/2009
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REPUBLICIANS: 20% rich ruling class ---- 90% of wealth

DEMOCRATS: 30% intelligent middleclass ---- 10% of wealth

PROGRESSIVES: 50% laboring class ---- 0% of wealth

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 AM on 10/16/2009
- Oakland I'm a Fan of Oakland 13 fans permalink
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Obama is a bust! He is Bush's third term. He won't prosecute torturers, stop wasting lives and our money on two wars, bailout homeowners, renegotiate bad trade deals, or actively push for real health care reform. He has surrounded himself with corporate owned Golden Sacks people like Geithner and Rahm, and he talks alot while delivering nothing.

If these are Democrats, we really need a third party.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:57 AM on 10/16/2009
- metalpipe I'm a Fan of metalpipe 11 fans permalink
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Never forget, he is working with what he was handed, the hand he was dealt. Do you honestly think you could have done better? Who do you think he is? God, a monarch, what? He is battling a corrupt Congress and a Gov't body that is saturated with GOP moles, and a country (world) that has an industrial infrastructure unwilling to give an inch to changing business as usual.

Are you listening to the hate talk coming from the right? Do you think they will idly sit by while Obama makes all your O' so glorious changes to heal our effed up world. Wake up, Oakland, and smell the stink of human complacency.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 AM on 10/16/2009
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 69 fans permalink
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I, for one, would be willing to give the President some more slack if I were convinced that he is actually trying to advance the progressive cause on some of our higher priorities. No one expects miracles from him. We just expect him to try.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 10/16/2009
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Obama got most all of his $670 million donations from the rich,
both he and Bush paid actors selected and funded by the rich,
until we get Campaign Financing Reform most politicians will
always do the will of the rich.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 AM on 10/16/2009
- Raster I'm a Fan of Raster 24 fans permalink

Face it Progressives, Obama punked us.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 10/16/2009
- lungfish I'm a Fan of lungfish 106 fans permalink
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When it comes to Unitary Executive Privileges, the Patriot Act, Renditions, etc...you are absolutely right. I expected more ethical and humane engagement and he has failed us there...

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 AM on 10/16/2009
- thrdr I'm a Fan of thrdr 55 fans permalink
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He's failed--is failing--on a lot of other things too. Too many.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 AM on 10/16/2009
- KIVPossum I'm a Fan of KIVPossum 73 fans permalink
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We should have seen it coming. He tried to tell us and we wouldn't listen.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:16 AM on 10/16/2009
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Face it, you are not a true Progressive if Obama faked you in the first place.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 AM on 10/16/2009
- thrdr I'm a Fan of thrdr 55 fans permalink
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Not fair. Everybody's got a blind spot somewhere, and Obama's real good at finding it in a wide range of people.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 AM on 10/17/2009
- Samalabear I'm a Fan of Samalabear 73 fans permalink
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Read the latest from Naomi Klein: Obama's Bad Influence. This is Obama's influence on the EU in the area of environmental policies. Obama is fast becoming Bush in this area, too, but the problem is that the EU countries are following him whereas they would not follow Bush. This is going to be a disaster.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 10/16/2009

The administration's opposition to the core of this bill came as a complete surprise and doesn't show much concern for compromise," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., "

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why a complete surprise exactly, Chuck?

'No one could have predicted _______'- fill in the blank.

As a Mukasey supporter, I guess for you at least, its a nice surprise.

But to be sure, for the people who still cling to the idea that meaningful change occurred
last November, and before that in November of 2006, its a not so nice surprise.

I do not dispute the symbolic and positive world historical significance of Obama's election.

I merely point out that during this moment that is essentially America's swan song, we
will be treated to many such beautiful and perfect ironies.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 10/16/2009
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Obama did not keep his promise to the voters, starting with his silence
while our bombs wasted over a thousand women and children in Gaza,
Obama proved himself to be a deceitful man.

So the only real issue be, how deceitful is he?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 10/16/2009
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 69 fans permalink
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It seems the President thinks that it is his prerogative to campaign on an issue and then, when elected, change his mind. It seems that he thinks it is all right to tell people that he is a progressive, but then, when elected, to oppose progressive senators and congresspersons on the issues that they were elected on. The election of 2008 was a progressive wave election. The President was riding that wave. If he now wants to get off, he has no reasonable expectation that progressives will continue to support him. Mr. Obama apparently learned some undesirable behavior from Mr. Bush. He somehow failed to grasp that many of the votes cast for him were primarily motivated by that same behavior on the part of Mr. Bush.

Mr. Bush tended to think that all political behavior was either pro-Bush, or anti-Bush, and not issues-based. Mr. Obama seems to be taking the same view of himself, with the additional calculation that the electorate has no one else to turn to. While this may be true in the presidential realm, it is most certainly not true in the by-elections. I wonder if another progressive wave election will clarify the situation in the President's mind, or if he will continue to think that on matters important to progressives, the only thing of importance is what he wants.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 AM on 10/16/2009
- Samalabear I'm a Fan of Samalabear 73 fans permalink
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That additional calculation of the "electorate has no one else to turn to" is repugnant at best. After reading Naomi Klein's latest, which I listed above, and this blog here on HuffPo

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-swanson/presidential-power-grows_b_322555.html

I am beginning to believe that everything Obama has done was cleverly calculated to get him to where he is now, including his support for single-payer in 2003, which might have simply been a ploy to start garnering progressive support. Certainly no one -- not even Baucus -- has worked harder to keep single-payer off the table. How can you ever have professed to support this concept when you're working so hard against it, even perpetrating an outright lie that we'd be starting from scratch on government-payer (Medicare = Canada), or even government-run (VA = NHS-style).

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 10/16/2009
- deezus I'm a Fan of deezus 3 fans permalink
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I supported the Patriot Act at its conception, but it had an expiration date for a reason.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 10/15/2009
- springsm I'm a Fan of springsm 54 fans permalink

Loaded weapons on a person in National Parks...another one of bush's follies. Thank you to the ***wipe Coburn. I am very disappointed in some of Obama's decisions. But still I surely wouldn't want another bush nor would I stay in this country with My Friends and Wink Wink. It is easy to follow someone else's legislation if it gives more power. We will have Bush on our minds for years and years, I am afriad...no matter who you tend to blame.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 10/15/2009
- Truthahn I'm a Fan of Truthahn 18 fans permalink

Just one year ago the Patriot Act was one of the main symbols of Republican evil. Now Democrats are in a position to repeal it, and what do they do? They put cosmetic changes on it, and reauthorize the whole thing. Pathetic. It's exactly like what they've done with the Afghan war. They spent years pimping it as the "good war," now they're backing away from it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 10/15/2009
- water57 I'm a Fan of water57 26 fans permalink

New Flash!!!! Not all democrats are progressives, and they do not represent the base of the democrat party.Progressives may have the loudest voice in the party, still this dose not make them the voice of the party. Either support the president , or vote republican. We all know how far that will get you. P.S. love you to.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 PM on 10/15/2009
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Most Democrats are Republicans, and most Republicans are Democrates,
as most are paid actors hired to protect capitalism with it's excessive wealth.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 10/15/2009
- legalies76 I'm a Fan of legalies76 10 fans permalink
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I agree. Clinton paved a smooth entry for 8 years of Bush and Obama will do the same for the next Republican radical. They share power and maintain the status quo while the thieves loot and fleece The People. Bush was angry fascism and Obama is friendly fascism. The marketing phrase, " change we can believe in" is nothing more than a prop in their big act. Dems, progressives, whatever, need to stop excusing this just because 'our guy' is in power now.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 10/15/2009
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 69 fans permalink
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Utter gibberish.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 AM on 10/16/2009
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Gibberish is you who preach light that only
suckers people deeper into darkness

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 10/16/2009
- windup I'm a Fan of windup 22 fans permalink

Why should I support the president if he has completely turned his back on the things he promised he would do. He is just another prop for corporate america. and you shouldn't be an apologist for him and just say 'support him'. Look at what he's doing, and decide by his acts if you support him, and forget labels. Go see Michael Moores movie "Capitalism a Love Story". It says it all about who is running this country, and for whom.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 PM on 10/15/2009
- windup I'm a Fan of windup 22 fans permalink

And, yes, you're right. There's generally NO ONE to vote for. But if enough people are seeing what is happening maybe we can get some people in power who will actually work for US!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 10/15/2009
- thrdr I'm a Fan of thrdr 55 fans permalink
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"Either support the president , or vote republican"

Follow you're own advice.

Keep believing the lie that there are no alternatives and there will never be any alternatives.

I voted Green this last Presidential election, after supporting Obama through the primaries. Unless another Dem with a spine and some ethical integrity turns up to challenge Obama, I will likely vote Green or Independent again, and I will encourage others to do so also.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 AM on 10/16/2009
- Samalabear I'm a Fan of Samalabear 73 fans permalink
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I'm with you. Why should I support a President I no longer believe in after nine months. At this point I would be absolutely shocked if Obama started changing course from where he is now. I am an Independent for a reason and I never make the mistake of hero worship in a leader.

Spiraling foreclosures in the private sector and the commercial sector is right on schedule, if you were reading the economists and others that the Obama Administration doesn't listen to. The continued massive, but slightly slower, loss of jobs was also predicted (sliding down the slope instead of plunging off a cliff).

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 10/16/2009
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LIBERALS ---- SLOW AND CAREFUL THINKERS

We have a capitalist government that can best be described
as a competition based dictatorship, where a man’s wealth
and power is in direct proportion to his ability to compete.
An intelligence dictatorship actually.

So a liberal would be all of us among the slow and careful thinking
laboring class and those fighting to free us from such economical slavery.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 10/15/2009
- bannorhill I'm a Fan of bannorhill 33 fans permalink

"LIBERALS ---- SLOW AND CAREFUL THINKERS"

Then why did the stimulus bill pass less than 14 hours after it was written and before it was read?

Then why are liberals afraid to add a provision to allow the health care bill to have at least 72 hours between when it is published and when it is voted on?

The Liberals in Congress are afraid that someone might read what they are doing and think about it so it won't pass.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 10/15/2009
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Like all capitalist politicians, most liberals in Congress are paid actors,
hired to pretend we have democratic equality, while they knife us in
the guts with excessive wealth capitalism.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 10/15/2009
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 69 fans permalink
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Nobody in Congress waits until one of the crucial bills working its way through the process emerges from committee in its final form to inform themselves of what it in it. There are staffers available to senators and congresspersons whose job is to monitor the contents of pending bills and to be conversant with the current state of legislation. Bills come to the floor of the chamber only after they have been publicly debated in committee, believe it or not. While their contents may be surprising to members of the public, they are certainly no secret.

The assertion that liberals are "afraid" rings hollow when leveled by conservative know-nothings, who consistently try to base everything they do on an ideology founded on fear of everything from half-baked domestic terrorist groups to fear of the future itself. It's the conservative voter who lives in fear, not the liberal.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 AM on 10/16/2009
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I can see where capitalists might come in here as fake liberals
and defend politicians as mostly honest, but who else would
act in such a brainwashed way?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 AM on 10/16/2009
- SCrae I'm a Fan of SCrae 5 fans permalink

Hopefully, the people so concerned about their civil liberties will be the ones that are blown to pieces if we are attacked again. I guess being attacked twice isn't proof enough for some that we may have to cede some civil liberties to be safer. Of course, you people complaining about your civil liberties will be the very first to blame Obama if we are attacked again. You'll demand a report like you did after 9/11 and act all concerned and sad then. Like I said, I hope your hit directly if there is an attempted attack. No whining afterwards either. You're still whining about being hit last time.....favorite line "Bin Laden determined to attack in the US." You would do this same crap to Obama because your a bunch of turncoats.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 PM on 10/15/2009
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The Bush-Obama War on Terror, now that is your war against the poor,
you conservatives with excessive wealth who fear revenge by the poor.

And rightly should you fear, as your Empire USA has plundered
half the wealth on mother earth, and now has half the world
suffering hardship because of it.

For you are their high valued targets, so bomb away I say
and may the poorest and most deserving win come what may.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 PM on 10/15/2009
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The disaster of 9/11 was revenge for all the harm our Empire USA
did to the Middle East.

What with half the wealth on earth having been plundered by the
multinational rich who ownership control our darling Empire USA.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 PM on 10/15/2009
- legalies76 I'm a Fan of legalies76 10 fans permalink
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Wake up to the fact that 9-11 was indeed perpetrated with assistance from certain US and Israeli intelligence assets. Once you get the ostrich head out of the sand you will see that we don't need to give up our rights for safety especially when they purposefully threatened our safety to remove those rights so the police state can control us and we can invade counties for their oil.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 10/15/2009
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One could argue that 9/11 was designed and funded by U.S. and Israeli
intelligence, but still the harm our Empire has done in plundering the
Middle East was what generated the revenge and anger in the minds
of those who executed the 9/11 disaster.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 PM on 10/15/2009
- legalies76 I'm a Fan of legalies76 10 fans permalink
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I agree. Americans have always known down deep that we would pay for our past.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 AM on 10/16/2009
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 69 fans permalink
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Turncoats, huh? Except that we were never loyal to the authoritarian principles that people like you subscribe to in the first place, so our attitudes don't represent any change of loyalties. Your wish for the destruction of those who defend civil liberties is thinly disguised as a wish for just desserts. In fact, it's unmistakably clear that you are really wishing for the destruction of those who disagree with you. I don't find anything you say persuasive. Rabid, naked hatred is not appealing on any level.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 AM on 10/16/2009
- gditty I'm a Fan of gditty 31 fans permalink
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"Sections that allow roving wiretaps on multiple phones, seizing of business records and a never-used authority to spy on non-Americans suspected of being terrorists even though they have no known connection to a recognized terrorist group".

Ummmm, didn't they use these same measures to stop an attack on New York last month? YES....
I don't agree with the Obama administration on every policy, but it's obvious that some of the Patriot Act is necessary.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/15/najibullah-zazi-terror-ca_n_322032.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 PM on 10/15/2009
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