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World's Biggest Economies Hold Talks To Reach Climate Deal

ROBERT BARR   10/18/09 11:31 AM ET   AP

Climate Change

LONDON — Representatives of the world's 17 biggest and most polluting nations were holding talks Sunday to search for a breakthrough on financing efforts to contain climate change and reduce gas emissions causing global warming.

Pressure has been mounting for the United States to finalize its position before a decisive December conference in Denmark meant to cap two years of negotiations on a global climate change treaty.

"With only 50 more days to go before the final talks at Copenhagen, we have to up our game. Britain is determined to throw everything at this because the stakes are so high," British Environment Minister Ed Miliband said in a statement released Sunday.

Earlier Miliband had said it was "important that the U.S. makes as much progress as possible" at the two-day meeting of the Major Economies Forum.

The Obama administration said it was tied to action by U.S. Congress, where climate bills were making their slow way toward legislation – an argument which cut little ice with other negotiators.

"The rich countries of the Major Economies Forum must urgently put new money on the table to ensure the developing world can grow cleanly and adapt to the effects of climate change, which are already putting millions of lives at risk," said Asad Rehman of Friends of the Earth.

Miliband said there had been some progress, pointing to recent commitments by Japan and China aimed at reducing emissions.

"There are some good straws in the wind, but there are also some big obstacles to overcome," Miliband told the BBC, speaking ahead of the talks opening.

He insisted that the meeting in London could tackle differences between developed and developing nations outside the formal U.N. negotiating process.

"The truth is if this is left to the negotiators ... I think we'll fail," Miliband said. "If we can get a way forward, narrow some of the differences between the countries which represent the lion's share of the problem, then it might make those U.N. talks a bit easier."

Sweden's environment minister Andreas Carlgren, representing the European Union, will hold separate talks with representatives from China and India during the meeting, his spokesman Lennart Boden said.

"All the important components that need solving ahead of Copenhagen will be up for discussion here," Boden said. "By tomorrow afternoon we should know if there have been any changes to positions."

One further negotiating session is set for November in Barcelona, Spain.

But pessimism was mounting that a deal can be struck without policy changes at the highest level.

"In recent months, the prospects that states will actually agree to anything in Copenhagen are starting to look worse and worse," Rajendra Pachauri, head of the U.N. scientific panel studying climate change, wrote in a Friday post on the Newsweek Web site.

President Barack Obama initiated the Major Economies Forum earlier this year as an informal caucus to quietly deal with the toughest problems. Participants agree to keep the talks confidential.

A key issue is helping poor countries adapt to changes in the earth's climate that threaten to flood coastal regions, make farming unpredictable and spread diseases. They also need funds and technologies to develop their economies without overly increasing pollution.

Estimates range in the hundreds of billions of dollars needed every year, but a formula for raising, administering and distributing the funds has proved elusive.

Rapidly growing nations like India, China, Brazil and Mexico have agreed to draw up national strategies for slowing the growth of greenhouse gas emissions, but resist making those limits binding and subject to international monitoring in a treaty.

Industrial countries agree to reduce their own emissions, but not to the levels scientists say are required to avert climate catastrophes.

___

Associated Press Writer Malin Rising in Stockholm, Sweden, contributed to this report

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LONDON — Representatives of the world's 17 biggest and most polluting nations were holding talks Sunday to search for a breakthrough on financing efforts to contain climate change and reduce gas...
LONDON — Representatives of the world's 17 biggest and most polluting nations were holding talks Sunday to search for a breakthrough on financing efforts to contain climate change and reduce gas...
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sloppybear16
"Dare we live, without molds"
07:04 PM on 10/19/2009
why are so many liberal atheists, emphatically religious about anthropogenic global warming/global cooling/climate change??

There is good evidence being ignored because Christ Gore says the debate is over. Nothing has been fully proved or disproved.

What about sun cycles?? What about other planets/moons warming and cooling at the same time as the earth?? Or NASA and others reporting that the earth have been cooling since the end of the 20th century. Don't just pick a side and stick to it. Keep an open mind.
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Exusian
Nature bats last
09:31 PM on 10/19/2009
Keeping ones mind open does not mean letting one's brain fall out.

For example, the sun is at it's quietest in a century, yet several global temperature records were set in 2009.

For example, some other planets and moons are known to be warming for different reasons than Earth is warming.

For example, NASA and other climate agencies are NOT saying Earth has been cooling since the end of the 20th century. In fact, they are sayiing the exact opposite.

A brain is a terrible thing to waste.
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sloppybear16
"Dare we live, without molds"
04:07 AM on 10/20/2009
the dollar is dying. that is all that matters right now. climate change/global warming/global cooling can wait. I'm not denying that their is a legitimate argument for man-made climate change, but there is plenty against it.

I only get concerned the "experts" say the debate is over. Like many doctors say mercury in vaccines is fine or even good for you. But then their are plenty that say "no, mercury is horribly toxic, don't put that in your body." Just because the majority says it is fine, does not mean they are right. Actually it seems more often than not these days, its the educated minority that is right.

Besides, Carbon Trading is made for Wall St., and I know how much liberals love it when Wall St. makes sick cash.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
realpolitic
GOP is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing!
05:50 AM on 10/20/2009
Sloppybear, the debate is over scientifically. You may not like it, but it is. Also, the debate that the earth revolves around the sun is over. Try to enter modernity!
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
11:10 AM on 10/20/2009
You would do well to avoid these topics since you seem to have little understanding of science or religion.
03:47 AM on 10/19/2009
Reading some of the posts here I get the impression Obama is way too smart for many Americans.

So global warming is a hoax or hooey ? Global warming is not about opinions but facts. Bush even tried to shut up scientists, free speech huh ? And it is not about a world government or destroying what is left of your poor manufacturing base. There is no conspriracy from the outside.

Ever sínce 9/11, the world is watching how the USA destroys itself from the inside. Maybe Bush laid the groundwork but it was not his incompetence alone. From criminal bankers to right wing hate preachers and religious nuts the country is hurting and it is no fun to watch. And when finally a guy like Obama rises from the ashes he gets the middle finger and is blamed for everything wrong under the sun, pathetic.
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07:44 AM on 10/19/2009
Problem is this. All the fundamentalists and puritanical people came over to the U.S. so they could practice religion freely. These people refuse to change they way they think, no matter how much evidence you throw at them. They believe the earth was created 7000 years ago. If you can't explain to them fossils were created 10 million years ago, how do you think they're gonna accept the greenhouse effect?

The only way it will become accepted is if some very very influential religious leaders can be convinced in some way global warming is somehow explained in the bible.
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DorianCorso
Mammal who wears pants.
08:51 AM on 10/19/2009
There have actually been a few notable religious leaders coming out for the cause.

I don't so much blame religion on this, though it is a part of the problem. The bigger problems are willfully dishonest campaigns being waged by oil and coal interests. It is exactly like the smoking debates that happened a couple decades ago. The cigarette companies fought for years, spent millions on ad campaigns denying that smoking had any ill affects on a persons health.

We know how that eventually turned out.
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fumes
midnight toker
11:34 AM on 10/19/2009
''So global warming is a hoax or hooey ?''

hardly.. it's what has brought us to this point since that last ice age.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
realpolitic
GOP is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing!
04:15 PM on 10/19/2009
Thanks for ignoring all the science! Care to re-write the histories of any other subjects?
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fumes
midnight toker
03:06 AM on 10/20/2009
but rp..

i was agreeing!

the globe has been warming.. and for a very long time..

where is that non-historical?
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sloppybear16
"Dare we live, without molds"
03:33 AM on 10/19/2009
British Lord: Climate Treaty will destroy US sovereignty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlTagSZPm7o&feature=player_embedded#
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
07:38 AM on 10/19/2009
Lord Christopher Monckton is not a climate change expert. He is not a scientist (his degree is in the classics) and he is a notorious global warming denier. His opinions are at odds with the overwhelming majority of climate change scientists.
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sloppybear16
"Dare we live, without molds"
06:55 PM on 10/19/2009
Why does it matter if someone is a scientist or economist or an "expert"??? Most supposed mainstream "experts" are idiots spewing propaganda. Regardless, this idea of world government via climate treaty still exists.

It doesn't matter if global warming/global cooling/climate change is real or not(manmade or otherwise). It is being used as an excuse for world government/global governance.
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Exusian
Nature bats last
11:21 AM on 10/20/2009
"Why does it matter if someone is a scientist or economist or an "expert"???"

The war on science summed up in one sentence.
08:38 AM on 10/19/2009
He's the Lord, so I suppose we should listen.
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fumes
midnight toker
12:10 AM on 10/19/2009
this should make everyone feel better..

http://www.rosssea.info/glaciers.html
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
07:48 AM on 10/19/2009
It would be good if you understood the different forces at play in determining global temperature in millenia past and in the present. The situation of the earth has changed over time.
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fumes
midnight toker
10:24 AM on 10/19/2009
''The situation of the earth has changed over time.''

you're kidding right..
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
08:13 AM on 10/19/2009
You can get a longer term understanding of the factors that have contributed to global climate in times past from a video "Climate Denial Crock of the Week - The "Temp leads Carbon" Crock" .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWJeqgG3Tl8&feature=channel
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wilsonveteran
Free America End Big Government
11:09 PM on 10/18/2009
I know it has not happened yet but I can almost guarantee you that President Obama will sign over the United States sovereignty at this convention. The main thrust of this new global policy is to have a world government that will regulate CO3 ommissions from every country signed on. It will also be a global redistribution of wealth that our President will truly love. As this article already stated we will have to give money to poorer countries so they can be green too. This will shut down a lot of businesses and industry in the nation by a foriegn power. They will also dictate how much money we send to other nations. This combined with Cap and Trade will give Obama his final goal of destroying this economy and this country so he can reshape it in his own image. What is rediculous about this new treaty is China and India will not sign on. So while our economy falters theirs will thrive and we will become a third world nation.
11:31 PM on 10/18/2009
well said .......while i toss another log on the fire
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
11:38 PM on 10/18/2009
Rather than be bad for this country, addressing global warming is our only hope for survival and for future generations to enjoy a decent life. I am hoping that President Obama will do anything that is necessary to forge and agreement that will bring a rapid end to the use of fossil fuels, particularly coal. Without that agreement there will be no wealth to redistribute. Thanks to global warming we will be lucky if we aren't reduced to a few hundred breeding pairs trapped up in the arctic circle.
11:53 PM on 10/18/2009
ya right, but coal is clean, so says Mr obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GehK7Q_QxPc

laughing
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wilsonveteran
Free America End Big Government
12:03 AM on 10/19/2009
Global warming is the largest hoax perpetrated on the world. It is done so to make some people rich and to control other countries. Al Gore when he left as Vice President was worth 2 million dollars. Today his net worth is 200 million dollars. All this from the Global warming myth. The scientist that first started this craze just recently came out and said that the globe wil go through a cooling faze for the next 30 years. To think that man can effect this type of change on this planet is very arrogant of us.
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
10:51 PM on 10/18/2009
I wonder if a global carbon emissions added tax (CEAT) on goods - like the value added tax (VAT) on goods used in the UK - would work?
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
07:38 AM on 10/19/2009
In the absense of foreign cooperation we can go a long way by ourselves by imposing a carbon emissions tax on domestic producers and a carbon emissions import duty on goods and services imported into the US - depending on the country of manufacture - or the maximum if the country of manufacture is unknown. Less import duty on countries that have a comparable carbon emissions tax of their own.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ramirez
Proud to be an American
10:32 PM on 10/18/2009
Everyone talks the talk about the importance of combating global warming but no one really believes it. If they believed in what they were preaching they would find the will to do something about it.

Global warming is a load of hooey. Five years from now we'll have something new to be afraid of and we won't even remember this stuff.
11:33 PM on 10/18/2009
gee because the world has been cooling?
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lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
11:39 PM on 10/18/2009
Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck to the contrary the planet is warming rapidly.
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01:39 AM on 10/19/2009
What is your explanation for the shrinking polar icecaps?
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lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
07:45 AM on 10/19/2009
Most likely people who are scientifically illiterate enough to deny global warming will deny that the polls are shrinking. They are generally as out of touch with reality as members of the Flat Earth Society.
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
08:01 PM on 10/18/2009
From "Running The Odds on Copenhagen" by Michael Mechanic in Mother Jones - they talked to a respected game theory expert about the prospects for effective coordinated global action:
"Mother Jones:

What's the outlook for Copenhagen?

Bruce Bueno de Mesquita:

Our analysis shows that the Copenhagen setting will be used to put together what I would describe as a feel-good agreement without teeth. The drivers are that the US and the Europeans are less willing to take really big steps in the absence of similar commitments from the growing greenhouse emitters: China, India, Brazil, and so forth. So the problem is that things don't get enforced.

It's not that this is going to fail immediately. The analysis shows that over the first few years there will be improvement, and then commitment will erode steadily and move away from enforcing the agreement. At the same time, technology changes will be pushing in a positive direction.

The other thing this shows is that if the US were committed to a fundamental change in greenhouse gas emissions, it doesn't need Copenhagen; it doesn't need an international agreement. This could be done unilaterally [with tax on gas, for example].

MJ:

So somebody has to commit political suicide to make this happen?

BBdM:

That's probably correct. Every sensible politician will be in favor of something happening off of their watch: Yes, we will commit to reducing greenhouse gas emissions starting year X—X being the year they're no longer in office."
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
08:13 PM on 10/18/2009
A fundamental problem is that there is usually lttle political cost from doing nothing even when that is tantamount to criminal negligence.

President Obama has shown he, like other politicians, is quite good at doing nothing to minimize political cost to himself.

Unless a punishing carbon tax is put in place the development of alternate clean energy resources may very well lead to increased use of oil and of total energy at lower prices - booming the economy but busting the environment.

It could be difficult to sort things out.
09:42 PM on 10/18/2009
It is naive to believe Brazil, Russia, India, China would implement "punishing carbon tax" and put their respective economies at risk.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Patriot86
Compassion is the basis of all morality.
07:42 PM on 10/18/2009
What happened to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to kill us all? To anyone with a ounce of brains, what will be the next hoax to separate the gullible from their money?
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
08:16 PM on 10/18/2009
Come back when you understand optical emission and absorption and heat transfer mechanisms - or are prepared to listen to those who do.
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
08:26 PM on 10/18/2009
You can read about "ozone depletion" and the "ozone hole" and the impact of CFC chemicals and the effects on humans so far on wiki.

I don't remember any statement that it was going to kill us all, but you may be interested to know that supposedly the incidence of skin cancer in later life correlates well with the size of bathing suit worn by teenagers - especially for women.
08:46 PM on 10/18/2009
Wiki... a very reliable source. LOL.
07:37 PM on 10/18/2009
"President Barack Obama initiated the Major Economies Forum earlier this year as an informal caucus to quietly deal with the toughest problems. Participants agree to keep the talks confidential."

Oh goody. More transparency. LOL.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BLUEBIRD1234
A POLITICAL ANALYST
06:26 PM on 10/18/2009
These meeting and conferences tantamount to playing hide and seek with the poor countries those which all are and will forever suffer and will be forced to compensate the illegal pollution of the Global Ecology by these economically advanced countries responsible of polluting the global ecology by 90% because they are in poessession of both the financial and muscle powers.

The question is, Is it not constituting Genocide when the population will die due to the Ecological after effects and are presently suffering of these countries reckless and obstinacy in dealing with the Global Carbon Emission issue rationally and logically including making payments in compensation to the poorer countries affected by such carbon emission.

In case these countries don't come to a rational and logical agreement and any lose of lives are reported due to ecological pollution then those countries affected will have the right to sue them for committing Crime against Humanity tantamount to genocide.

UN must be requested by the affected and likely to be affected countries to move and pass a resolution to this effect making it a mandatory law for all to follow.
06:39 PM on 10/18/2009
Love your hysteria. So does the New World Order gang.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BLUEBIRD1234
A POLITICAL ANALYST
04:17 AM on 10/19/2009
Hi! My Friend Foolonthehill, thanks a lot for your pertinent nice kind thoughtful comment on BLUEBIRS1234's comment.

You are very right to say it is a hysteria for those like me to live and would like others to let live. Well if the new world order gang considers this desire to survive is also a hysteria then we have to wait and see what comes out finally till then we wait with our opinion for that final day to come. Thanks once again for the comment.
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12:17 AM on 10/19/2009
Bullshit, the UN is NOT a government and until every member nation is a democracy it should not be allowed to act like one. I will not be told how to live my life by the corrupt bureaucrats and sycophants of dictatorships that infest the UN.

Every day women and children are murdered, raped, oppressed and enslaved and the bleeding hearts of the world do nothing but whine. That's a crisis that needs to be addressed not whether CO2 forcing creates more high level or low level clouds.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BLUEBIRD1234
A POLITICAL ANALYST
05:16 AM on 10/19/2009
Hi! Avidbuff My Friend, Thanks a lot for your emotional outburst and coming out with a very complicated intermingled thought provoking pertinent complain in the form of a comment not only on BLUEBIRD1234's Comment but to the entire world community.

Your outrage against the governments and its non functioning or disabled administration that fails to go into the daily details of social crime taking place unabated throughout the world is definitely regrettable.

This Particular subject my friend is dealt with by individual government where these incidents of crimes are taking place and is not the function of the UN. I am with you and add my voice to the respective government all over the world to pay more attention to redress the victims. These social crime should be reduced to the minimum but I don't think it can be totally eliminated like corruption from the human society.

My friend for your kind knowledge Emission of carbon dioxide can be reduced to a certain tolerable limit where upon the ecological balance will revert back to normalcy that will stop Global warming making life on earth to go on.

This global warming may get to such a limit of no return when it will become the end story of all social crimes. As when there will no more existence of life then there will be no need for any to worry of any mentioned social crimes. .

My friend thanks to GOD Einstein is dead we don't want a new one.
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
06:17 PM on 10/18/2009
The world's biggest economies don't need to hold talks to reach a climate deal. The world's stupidest people need to get brainwashed into understanding that global warming is real!
06:27 PM on 10/18/2009
No. The world's stupidest people already have been brainwashed into understanding that global warming is real!

Fortunately not everyone is that stupid.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
deluk
hot mess...
06:50 PM on 10/18/2009
So, your name ISN'T an attempt at irony then..
08:21 PM on 10/18/2009
I guess all the major scientific institutions across the globe, and all the climate change scientists are "stupid." Gosh, if you've got information they don't have access to, perhaps you should share it with them?
04:00 PM on 10/18/2009
Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase, insurance companies like AIG and private equity firms had virtually no reps on Capitol Hill working on global warming policy in 2003; by last year, they had about 130 climate lobbyists, the Center for Public Integrity’s analysis of Senate lobbying disclosure forms shows. About 20 additional lobbyists worked for firms and organizations wholly dedicated to carbon marketing last year, writes Marianne Lavelle.

It is estimated that the “carbon market” and its securitized, derivatized, and speculated financial assets will ultimately be worth trillions a year to Wall Street and the bankers. It will inflate a massive bubble designed to burst like all the bubbles that came before it.

The American Clean Energy and Security Act “is about profits, not environmental remediation,” writes Stephen Lendman. “Its emissions reduction targets are so weak, they effectively license pollution by creating a new profit center to do it.”
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04:52 PM on 10/18/2009
Bingo!!
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Albert Amato
06:00 PM on 10/18/2009
Buy stocks of Wall St. investment banks and retire well.
03:52 PM on 10/18/2009
I'm sure they will get a lot done. buk buk buk buk buuukkkkaa!