CIA Rendition Plane Spotted In Birmingham UK

The Guardian:

An American plane named in an inquiry by the European parliament into alleged CIA torture flights landed at Birmingham airport last month and was met by British special forces helicopters.

Read the whole story: The Guardian

Comments

[AllieMD]

You know the really great thing?

Obama's political ploy of having the AG investigate CIA officers regarding torture etc was disgusting by itself - stabbing folks in the back who did nothing but what they were told to do AND were told was legal - and were already investigated and cleared.

So - the great thing? YOU are paying for their legal defense :) Yep - taxpayer money. And you can bet that Panetta is going to make sure each and every one of them get the absolute best lawyers on the face of the planet - no matter what it costs you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/27/AR2009082704071.html

Seriously - some of these folks are really making enemies at the CIA - those are not people I'd want as enemies........

[Rog49Thomas]

I believe the "I was just following orders" defense was tried at Nuremberg.

[AllieMD]

It's not that simple and you know it - they were told that not only was it approved by their agency chain of command but that the Attorney General cleared it.

Under your theory anyone can be tried for anything AFTER the fact even though all legal authority at the time decreed it legal. That's why laws have effective dates and events before then are grandfathered.

[Rog49Thomas]

This is disturbing.

We had promised we wouldn't send detainees to countries that tortured.

I believe the historical record is pretty clear that the UK tortured suspected IRA members.

How sad.

[fairplaystacy]

Sarah Palin reported this first as seen from her house

[Moshe]

Nothing good has to happen in secret, and our shadow government operations are a cancer that will destroy our democracy if not removed root and branch.

Look at what has happened post-9/11, and note that the "temporary" measures have now become standard operating procedure. The loss of liberty and the concentrations of power have become permanent. A change in government brought little change in fact.

But the most shocking part, is that so many millions of Americans continue to cheer for and so passionately defend the unconstitutional acts that are destroying their own democracy and freedom.

Jefferson was right: We cannot be both ignorant and free, and the massive willful ignorances in this nation, and willingness to let our government ignore our own laws and Constitution, will be cursed by our children and grandchildren as they have to fight to regain what we gave away through inaction and lazy lack of interest.

[wadenelson1]

Fanned & Faved.

[AllieMD]

Soooo - you think that everything that happens should be on CNN? No State Secrets? No National Security briefings unless done on tv and in the open? How incredibly naive.

[wadenelson1]

Torture is illegal according to:

Federal Statute 113 Chapter 18
The US Constitution / Bill of Rights Amendment 8
Uniform Code of Military Justice
Geneva Convention Article 3
United Nations Convention Against Torture (CAT) to which we are signatory

Why are we "rendering" suspects, and why are there "secret prisons" and prison ships if we are not torturing prisoners, or paying others to do so on our behalf (also illegal under CAT).

Is or is not America a nation of laws?

Once you are no longer a nation of laws, what are you, and where does it end?

[Moshe]

Fanned and faved as well my friend.

And never give up on hope for future democracy and liberty.

As to your question, history gives us very clear answers concerning the end result of government lawlessness. Germany was a democracy prior to the pre-WW II take over of lawless extremists.

When democracies stop following the Rule of Law, they are no longer democracies, and the path away from the Rule of Law always leads to tyranny and abuse, and ends in ashes and massive death.

We would do well to fight to keep our freedom and democracy now, and these are infinately easier and less costly to keep than to regain once lost.

Shalom friend.

[holeybuybull]

Obama said we wouldn't torture on American soil. He never said he wouldn't continue the policy of rendition and torture if it was done outside the US. More outsourcing.

[Belisarius]

Not to worry. We sold the plane to Goldman and they are using it cart their money home.

[jack7576]

obama bush

[CigarGod]

I'm afraid, in many ways, Obama has tried to change the image of the USA, instead of the substance.

[JulieSA]

He's increased the outsourcing of interrogations, so he can look like his hands are clean. Clinto did this too. This means the interrogations are not done under supervision of our justice dept, as they were under Bush. Bush was willing to take the reponsibility, and the heat for it.

Say what you will about the things we did to mass-mu.rde.rer KSM ,but they were extremely mild compared to what most other countries do.

[wadenelson1]

It's only mild when you get to stand aside and judge. Participants prolly feel differently.

[Peacein09]

I weep.

[AllieMD]

First - of course all the black sites haven't been closed lol. And - there have been scattered rumors on the net of a prison ship - that just sails the seas - never docks - not subject to the law of any land.

For all those that post that Obama said he'd end rendition and enhanced interrogation - do some research. What he said was it's not nice and we shouldn't do it, but he didn't outlaw it and he reserved the right to use it as POTUS/CIC. And - for all those that slam Bush about rendition - he didn't come up with the idea - Clinton created rendition.

Check the ACLU website - it's there also - can't say that's a bastion of right wingers.

Here's the actual order signed by Clinton

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/pdd39.htm
If we do not receive adequate cooperation from a state that harbors a terrorist whose extradition we are seeking, we shall take appropriate measures to induce cooperation. Return of suspects by force may be effected without the cooperation of the host government, consistent with the procedures outlined in NSD-77, which shall remain in effect. (S)
Signed by Clinton
NSD-77, the procedure manual for rendition, is still classified

[InYourWorld]

Thank you for the facts Allie.....

I hate the idea of torture and rendition like most people, but I'd imagine in an ugly world of hate it has it's place, but I am sure it is overused and run poorly.

Clinton may have endorsed it, but I am sure that EVERY president we have had has been aware of something along these lines. I am sure in WWI and WWI it was used by every country.

If there is a silver lining to all this it is that people will start to wake up and see that while some politicans are better than others we dont yet have one that is honest and keeps promises. Maybe this will start making people vote for honestly and not blind faith to any particular party......?

[goto1000]

I think the solution to this is to equip concerned citizens with stinger missiles.

[James Croteau]

For all of you that think Obama closed the Black sites, you best think again, nothing has changed. If he was running an open administration, what news reporters have been to see the closed Black sites.

I live need one, have not noticed any traffic of late, but it sure was busy about 6 months ago.

[revhatchell]

usa! usa! usa!

[wadenelson1]

Yankee Doodle wept.

[duxguts]

Settle down folks. There's a simple explanation. The CIA were just sending a bit of the white stuff over to the UK from Afghanistan.

[mergina]

Yep. It was a torture plane once upon a time. It is now a drug dealing messenger plane with complete immunity.

[larry278]

Yes, that is right. The relics of W's rendition program have been recycled. Transporting smack from where the smack is made to smack's users is simply commerce. BTW, you can make a lot of money running smack. We still are in an ever deepening, monumental depression. Gotta make money.

[unscum]

So is the US still doing 'rendition' or not? If it is, then there is no difference whatever political party you vote for.

[KIVPossum]

Certainly it is. Obama hasn't stopped it and doesn't plan to.

[WiltonDiary]

Treaty or no treaties: This has been going on for years absolutely years since the invention of aircraft and international travel!

[JulieSA]

Yes, and this is not news. Months ago the admin. said it would keep doing this.

[wadenelson1]

What's your point? We shouldn't be outraged since it's old news?