FACT CHECK: GOP Math Suspect In Stimulus Debate

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CALVIN WOODWARD | 11/ 2/09 03:48 AM | AP

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WASHINGTON — Beware the math. Some Republican lawmakers critical of President Barack Obama's stimulus package are using grade-school arithmetic to size up costs and consequences of all that spending. The math is satisfyingly simple but highly misleading.

It goes like this: Divide the stimulus money spent so far by the estimated number of jobs saved or created. That produces a rather frightening figure on how much money taxpayers are spending for each job.

On Friday, the White House released estimates that $160 billion in stimulus spending created or preserved 650,000 direct jobs.

By the critics' calculations, that's over $246,000 a job – and a terrible deal for taxpayers. Why spend nearly $250,000 to employ a highway worker or a teacher making a small fraction of that?

The reality is more complex.

First, the naysayers' calculations ignore the value of the work produced.

Any cost-per-job figure pays not just for the worker, but for material, supplies and that worker's output – a portion of a road paved, patients treated in a health clinic, goods shipped from a factory floor, railroad tracks laid.

Second, critics are counting the total cost of contracts that will fuel work for months or years and dividing that by the number of jobs produced only to date.

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A construction project, for one, may only require a few engineers to get going, with the work force to swell as ground is broken and building accelerates.

Hundreds of such projects have been on the books, in which the full value of the contracts is already counted in the spending totals, but few or no jobs have been reported yet because the work is only getting started.

To flip the equation politically, it's as if the 10-year cost of George W. Bush's big tax cuts were compared with the benefits to the economy that only accrued during the first year.

Third, the package approved by Congress is aimed at more than direct job creation, although employment was certainly central to its promotion and purpose.

Its features include money for research, training, plant equipment, extended unemployment benefits, credit assistance for businesses and more – spending meant to pay off over time but impossible to judge in a short-term job formula.

Nor do the estimates made Friday include indirect employment already created by the package – difficult if not impossible to measure.

Republican lawmakers have been performing their exercise in division for months.

"All told, the plan would spend a whopping $275,000 in taxpayer dollars for every new job it aims to create, saddling each and every household with $6,700 in additional debt paid for by our children and grandchildren," Ohio Rep. John Boehner, the House Republican leader, said back in January.

That line of argument continued Friday. Don Stewart, spokesman for the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, encouraged reporters to "get out your calculators" and divide the spending by the jobs.

Using a somewhat lower cost figure than the White House reported, he came up with $230,769 per job.

The debate over whether the stimulus was worth it will drag on, to be judged over time by the strength of the recovery just beginning, by whether the unemployment rate finally comes down and by the consequences for the national debt from the spending and tax-cut surge.

Dividing apples by oranges won't settle it.

WASHINGTON — Beware the math. Some Republican lawmakers critical of President Barack Obama's stimulus package are using grade-school arithmetic to size up costs and consequences of all that spen...
WASHINGTON — Beware the math. Some Republican lawmakers critical of President Barack Obama's stimulus package are using grade-school arithmetic to size up costs and consequences of all that spen...
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- OxamsRazor I'm a Fan of OxamsRazor 24 fans permalink
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Yet another example of how the GOP can do math.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 11/03/2009

The fuzzy math came out in the USAtoday.

A guy gets $26,000 to fix roofs on public housing in Blooming Grove, Texas.
He hires 5 roofers and 1 inspector to do the work. Then........

"He said that he told the government that he had created six jobs but that a federal official told him that wasn't right."

So what does our government do..... it uses the total hours worked (450) as individual jobs created.

Seriously, is anyone in Washington upfront and honest with the people?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/03/2009
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What is the source of that story? I don't believe that the Obama administration, not even the Bush's administration would be that stupid. If you were to go by your premise, I believe Washington's number would be in the high tens of millions of jobs created. Are you kidding yourself? If one ten million hours of work are created each all in just forty five states, then the government would be claiming at least 4.5million jobs created! Get it? And I will put myself out there to say that this stimulus package has created more hours if you divide that by 40 hours work week per employee.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 11/03/2009

I said USAtoday front page of their website.

'Analysis Finds Stimulus Confusion'

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 11/03/2009
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Sorry, below is the edited version of my post...

What is the source of that story? I don't believe that the Obama administration, not even the Bush's administration would be that stupid. If you were to go by your premise, I believe Washington's number would be in the high tens of millions of jobs created. Are you kidding yourself? If ten million hours of work are created each in just forty five states, then the government would be claiming at least 4.5million jobs created! Get it? And I will put myself out there to say that this stimulus package has created more hours if you divide that by 40 hours work week per employee.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/02/fact-check-gop-math-suspe_n_341930.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 11/03/2009

You lost me after 'What is the source of that story'?

I'm not saying ever job created was reported this way.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 11/03/2009
- tangelan I'm a Fan of tangelan 23 fans permalink
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This is what they do. And it's the benefit of having an uneducated base. You think Joe the Plumber is a math wiz?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 AM on 11/03/2009

Here is Democrat Party math. It asks the question "How can I create a permanent group of people who are always downtrodden and want a free hand out? How much to buy that person's vote?"

Don't believe me? Look at the urban cities in the country that are ran by Democrats.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 PM on 11/02/2009
- klbrz I'm a Fan of klbrz 15 fans permalink
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Sure the cities aren't doing great; however, one could also argue that many of the rural counties and towns run by Rs are having difficulties. Perhaps there are no easy answers.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 11/03/2009

There are easy answers and here they are. 1) Secure the borders, 2) Cut taxes, 3) Reduce government spending to 1995 levels 4) Balanced budget amendment 5) Law that says government spending cannot be more than 20% of GDP (Thanks Milten Friedman) 6) Open up new lands for oil drilling 7) encourage more development of coal, solar, nuclear, and natural gas energy sources 8) develop new coal and oil refineries 9) end cap and trade discussion, 10) end the government takeover of health care. I could go on but this is a good start.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 11/03/2009

Here is the republican party math; How can we as republicans create a permanent group of downtrodden people? Let's see, first we have to destroy the middle class, thus creating the downtrodden. Let's keep them that way by voting no on every program that could possibly help. Lets ignore our own base even tho they are downtrodden. republicans don't care about them, just their votes.

Look at the urban cities in the south that are run by republicans. Educate yourself "ditto head"

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 11/03/2009

Your answer convinced no one. I don't even think you believe it either.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 11/03/2009
- IDIOTA I'm a Fan of IDIOTA 54 fans permalink

I am willing to support my fellow Americans in need. I don't care that the red states, for example, get more from the federal government than they give to it. We are all Americans, until the corporate coup is complete.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 11/03/2009

Good. Send me cash or a check. You could also just volunteer to pay more money in taxes. Somehow, I don't think you will want to do either.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 11/03/2009
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look at all those socialist countries, too.

Higher standard of living. More economic mobility. Healthier lives.

All those things GOPers put zero value on.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 AM on 11/03/2009

I don't know which countries you are talking about. If it is so great, why don't you move there?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 11/03/2009
- weebils I'm a Fan of weebils 88 fans permalink

If you went to the public assistance office and polled the parents receiving benefits on their voting records the numbers would be dismal. If you asked them if they planned to vote in the future the answers would be dismal. Ask them questions about current affairs and the answers would make you want to shake your head in disbelief. The truth is their standing on line for food stamps is a result of most not participating in the governing of their own country.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 PM on 11/02/2009
- dfranz I'm a Fan of dfranz 64 fans permalink
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There is some new math floating around in the Republican Party alright. Like how does a base of 20% and shrinking win any national elections?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 11/02/2009
- Samcat604 I'm a Fan of Samcat604 16 fans permalink

Wouldn't the same be true if you just gave the money to the people who actually create the jobs? When jobs are created, it will happen no matter who is doing the hiring. That is common sense.

If you let the market recover and ease the burden on businesses, they will hire people as well and for much less than is being spent now. The main difference is when govt money runs out, those people are out of a job and have to look again. If they are hired in the private sector, they will most likely keep their job much longer.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 11/02/2009
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The vast majority of the stimulus money goes to projects that create private sector jobs. The money is not spent hiring government employees.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 11/02/2009
- Sam1234567 I'm a Fan of Sam1234567 4 fans permalink

They are public projects....what happens to the private company when the Govt project is finished?

If you have trouble understanding refer to the the Great Depression.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 11/03/2009

The problem here is that there is no demand for goods. This recession (as the last 2) have been caused by a lack of demand. Give more money to the guys investing doesn't do a thing. Most factories are running below 70% production. If I am running a company and no one is buying the stuff I am already producing because of the number of people that are out of work, I don't need investment dollars. i am not going to invest more until more people start buying stuff which doesn't happen until people start working again. Giving tax cuts to wealthy people does nothing to increase demand. Putting people to work to create more consumption is neccessary. Thus government investment to create more consumers by putting more people to work.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 AM on 11/03/2009
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Why hire people when nobody has money to buy?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 AM on 11/03/2009
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And if you divide the number of liberals by the number of GOP sins, you get a moral majority!
Add a Palin, stir to excess, and shake up an imaginary world!
They know that their constitu-don'ts aren't math savvy or long-sighted either.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 11/02/2009

Aint it the truth.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 PM on 11/02/2009

the moral majority is neither

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 11/03/2009

Seems to me most of the people who commented here are missing the point.

The point isn't that the Rethuglicans regularly distort numbers or mislead. The point is that AP, which has been openly biased against the Democrats and Obama for at least the last 2 years, has seen it fit to publish this fact check.

I hope this is the beginning of a trend in the mainstream media, and I hope to see more of it! We should express our support to AP so they continue to call out these transparent distortions.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:31 PM on 11/02/2009
- Samcat604 I'm a Fan of Samcat604 16 fans permalink

AP against the Dems. That is a good one.

That is like saying MSNBC is nice to the GOP.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 11/02/2009
- Indon I'm a Fan of Indon 12 fans permalink

MSNBC has a conservative pundit-run show, just like Fox does, so yes, that is pretty nice for the GOP.

Though, it does only have one of them, so they're not nearly as nice as Fox is.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 11/03/2009
- neesy08 I'm a Fan of neesy08 18 fans permalink
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this is why i hate math.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 11/02/2009
- Samcat604 I'm a Fan of Samcat604 16 fans permalink

You let others do your thinking often?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 11/02/2009
- mdlawyer2 I'm a Fan of mdlawyer2 16 fans permalink

Republican education doesn't include math, it only inclues the 3 R's. Reading, Riting (must be some religious ritual) and Rithmetic. Anybody have a clue what that rithmetic thing is?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 11/02/2009
- Dosadi I'm a Fan of Dosadi 123 fans permalink
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That's the class where they talk about Pi. Once the rethugs hear that they think it is a cooking class worthy for only women and leave.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:55 PM on 11/02/2009
- Phxflyer I'm a Fan of Phxflyer 72 fans permalink
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There go the republicans and their fuzzy math again.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 11/02/2009
- grf67 I'm a Fan of grf67 34 fans permalink

The republicans have never been good at math and science; the courses were just too hard for them.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 11/02/2009
- pxlpsh I'm a Fan of pxlpsh 8 fans permalink

BTW: Some Republican lawmakers critical of President Barack Obama's stimulus package are using grade-school arithmetic.

Am I the only one who thinks they are giving the repubs to much credit?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 11/02/2009
- pxlpsh I'm a Fan of pxlpsh 8 fans permalink

I thought this was a comedy bit.... they put math and GOP in the same sentence..­..haha!!!!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 11/02/2009
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