Is Ft. Hood Like Columbine? By Columbine's Dave Cullen

Newsweek:

My brain is about to bust with all the apparent parallels to Columbine, Virginia Tech and 9/11, and the startling differences to each as well. But the only responsible answer to that question is I don't know yet.

Read the whole story: Newsweek

Comments

[Sentientbeing09]

The difference between a terrorist attack and spree killing is motive. The motive will become clear soon enough.

[mike102]

"Is Fort Hood Like Columbine?"

Certainly it is like Columbine in one respect. The area where this attack took place was a "gun Free Zone". So was Columbine, and Va Tech, and pretty much every other site of a mass shooting that I can think of.

Why is it that these types of crimes only seem to occur in places where the shooter knows there won't be anyone shooting back?

[Nosepuede]

Agree with those who view this as a domestic terroristic attack much like the IRA, or ETA or the many Islamic extremest attacks around the globe. We need our president to recognize and acknowledge this fact and truly lead. So far he makes GWB look like a superstar after 9/11.

[Gasparilla]

Please, what did Bush do after 9-11? Other than invade a country that had nothing to do with it.

[mike102]

Not a Bush fan, but the first place he invaded was Afghanistan, not Iraq, because that's where Al Quaida was.

[Hugatreetoday]

Lieberman wants probe...yeah, the people of CT will give you a probe alright...

[Joe Caps]

Some people are interested in finding out what happened rather than making excuses for him and spending time worrying about non existant backlashes against those who share his religion.

[Joe Caps]

Hey Gidster,

If a right wing radical christian who attended radical churches had a history of speaking out against the government to other people, as well as on the web carried out these attacks, would you be rushing to his defense and urging people not to jump to conclusions? I think not.

Actually, I have a feeling if I went back to the threads on the stories about the census worker, you are probably one of the first people to jump to conclusions. Oh, by the way, it turns out that is looking more and more like he did that to himself. Of course, you will never hear about that here.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the more recent details regarding this story. i suggest you broaden your horizons, and leave the echo chamber if you are interested in the facts. You won't find them here and in Newsweek.

[scolombo]

It is now known (check ABC, for one, since nothing is mentioned in the HuffPo) that Hasan was trying to get in touch with Al Qaeda operatives, and that he was under scrutiny by anti-terrorist agencies.
This resolves the question of the motive and opens a painful problem of domestic Islamic terrorism; a problem that exists in Europe already (the bombers of the terror attacks in the London Metro system were all British citizens) and therefore is not exactly unexpected in the US.
This does'nt mean we have to criminalize all Middle-Eastern or Muslim people, but we should not rule out profiling as crazy or racist, unless we have good ground for such claims.
Unfortunately an added amount of caution needs to be used with people who share certain characteristics, and not with other people (in the 70's Irish people would have been profiled, because of the IRA bombings).
It is common sense, and it CAN have its drawbacks, but it is also highly economical especially when our defenses and resources are limited, as they are.
All other claims (PTSD, anguish, personal history, mental stress or illness) should not be overlooked, but they definitely come in second.
Trying - on ideological bases - do defy these logical statements poses a further danger to our society (and sound reasoning).
These mechanisms must be set in place together with substantial checks and balances, because they ARE dangerous and a limit to personal freedom.
Unfortunately the crimes of few damage the peaceful majority.

[Gidster]

! report from unnamed sources.

"Officials", and a "Senior lawmaker"... Still unsubstantiated rumor.

Your racist fear mongering calling for fascist measures to "Keep us safe" are ludicrous.

When and if the truth comes to light, my views might change, but in the words of Ben Franklin, "Those who give up their liberties for a measure of security will find they have neither".

[OldSchoolLiberal]

Islam is not a race it is a belief system and as such can and should be scrutinized just like communism, conservatism, christianity, judaism.

[Joe Caps]

what is fascistic about scrutinizing people who are openly hostile towards our country and sympathize with our enemies, especailly in a TIME OF WAR?

are you a crazy person or do you just play one on the internet?

[ancientmarinader]

Columbine was eerily similar to 9/11 in that they discussed taking an airliner and crashing it into a building. In that sense, all nihilistic rage is related. But the fact that he yelled Allah Ackbar, was muslim and apparently tried to contact an Al Qaeda cell online adds some weight to the religious angle. If those are accurate, we have another wannabe terrorist.

I mean, was Johnny Walker a Columbine case? Or the American muslim soldier who attacked his commanders in the desert the night before the war?

[GarryLad]

What I find shocking about this is that the victims at Fort Hood were killed by an Officer, A Major no less, commissioned by the United States and charged with the duty owed by Congress to guide, protect and even send to their deaths men and women under Its authority.

This is no post office rampage. Here, we have a member of Management, who already hold sconsiderable power over an ordinary soldier, killing subordinates under some God forsaken Plan.

I do not think this aspect of this tragedy should be deflected by claiming islamic revolution, charged working environments or even madness and the US Government itself must step forward and recognize that it has done a great wrong to the Constitution by empowering a citizen with powers over others and then not ensuring that this same citizen not do harm to those under his charge.

Ultimately the President was represented by this man before subordinates. Ultimately, despite whatever version of conspiracy that is elicted, this man was a commissioned officer, commissioned by Congress no less and holding a greater duty than others because that person represented the Republic.

[Gidster]

Riiiigt...This was Obama's fault!

An officer is human contrary to popular belief, and is subject to the same humors, fears and psychotic breaks as an enlisted man, he just has more responsibility.

[GarryLad]

I agree fully with your assessment. I do suggest however that the state, in this case congress which provides the commissionto this officer bear some responsibility that is more direct than say the person from Kileen who sold the weapon to this madman.

I worry that this aspect might fall on the wayside as different conspiracy theories evolve.

We have here a direct and proveable link that allowed this man access to men and women unaware of the danger this man posed, partly because of the trust these people placed on congress and their decision to charge a person with authority, access and as we have unfortunately learned, an undefended field of fire.

I think it hardly routine that the military take away the commission of a decorated officer because of his sexual orientation, yet permit another of higher rank, with known issues, to be in a deadly relationship with men and women who rely on the heirachy for safety.

[GarryLad]

A final point on this issue. The rank of major is not found in cracker jack boxes. I have noted in research that many of the minutemen launch officers or those responsibile for the safety of these weapons are at the rank of Major.

This suggests that there is a collective responsibility to ensure that persons entrusted with this high rank are absolutely vetted and can safely manage life and death issues of importance to the nation as a whole.

[MamaBird62]

MD's start out as captains in the army, then are fairly quickly promoted to major. Hasan got his rank mostly through his medical education, not work experience. There are 10 officer ranks in the Army, with O-10 (General) being the highest, major is only 4th. (O-4)
So Major Hasan did not have "considerable power." He had a very important job, one for which he was uniquely not qualified, as a person lacking in good mental health. That problem will be for the army to sort out, and I'm sure a head or two will roll over this one.
The army has an acute shortage of psychiatrists, from what I understand. And the mental health needs of soldiers go unmet. Thus their willingness to promote and continue to hire the less than well-qualified.

[GarryLad]

I stand corrected.

[CoconutLime]

No, this is not like Columbine because people in the military can usually protect themselves from nuts. Teachers cannot protect themselves from people like the Columbine nuts.

[AnnfromCA]

Obviously, they can't stop bullets when they are unarmed. It's precisely like Columbine.

[tiredofthesameoldstuff]

Columbine had an armed guard who was taken out first thing.

Ft. Hood it was a police officer who took out Hassan and another one was shot by him.

Numerous people with concealed weapons have been killed in rampage killings. It was often an unarmed person or the police who showed up who took out the rampage killer.

[JulieSA]

No, military on post are not allowed to carry arms. They are disarmed just as teachers are. Fortunately, the police were closer at Ft Hood, and they were trained to do the opposite of what the police at Columbine did, which was to sit outside and wait. Sgt. Munley and her partner charged in and exchanged fire with Hasan, and stopped him.

[changeself]

DEMOCRACY NOW reports on fort hood:

- there's NOTHING the soldiers can do to opt out of the war deployment
- 10 suicides / month at fort hood
- many violent incidents by stressed out soldiers on other soldiers, including murder of 10 mental health care workers in iraq

read / hear about how "war comes home" at

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/9/when_the_war_comes_homes_iraq

[blakestone]

What the Flip does this have to do with what happened last week?

[changeself]

let me connect the dots for you.

many soldiers of all religions or non-religions

have been struggling with the wars they are ordered to fight,

unsure of its morality or quite sure of its immorality

without any recourse to opt out, and

they get tossed out with no care

once they are used up and broken.

understandably, many went awol, many others speak out against the wars, not a few have already turned to violence like this one,

though the public don't hear about most of them.

the "official story' is

"a muslim who may have ties to muslim "terrorists" committed a horrible terrorist act"

which the neo war-criminals will use as the pretext for the next war / fear-mongering.

[Gidster]

Insight perhaps?

Hasan was tasked with hearing the soldiers horror stories day in and out, his job was to counsel those that suffer from PTSD.

It does wear on a person almost as much as the suffering patients.

[tiredofthesameoldstuff]

Supposedly the shooter didn't want to go to Iraq.

[ohiomark]

Hasan was a sleeper cell, plain and simple.

Enough with the politically correct BS, this man is a terrorist.

[Gidster]

Speculative fiction?

Hopeful paranoia?

He was born in Virginia in 1970! Just when was he supposed to be indoctrinated by Jihadist philosophy at William Fleming High School? He joined up right out of high school!!!

He's a mustang, so he understands both roles, enlisted and officer.....

Or do you believe that ALL Muslim Americans are sleeper cells?

[uhuhuh]

Sounds like you got a thing for this terrorist, you come to his defense so quick, perhaps you should check some of the current news stories. It seems most on here have it right, you have it wrong.

[uhuhuh]

all mus lim Americans who try to contact Al Qaeda and make the comments reported, yes they represent a mus lim sleeper cell.

[Patriot86]

I agree.

[GarryLad]

In the analogy mode, I ask, what is it about Texas and its military men? Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Joseph Whitman and now this. General Hood, as one knows, destroyed his army in pointless attacks against well entrenched Union forces in the South at the end of that terrible period in US history. Perhaps there is also an analogy there too somewhere with its association with reckless and bloody abandon.

I find analogy pointless of course, except here where we can sense, with a feeling of impotence, the pervasive melancholy of tragedy.

[JulieSA]

Ha.san has only lived here a few months. He became radicalized at a Wah.habi mos.que in Virginia. We have radical islamists here too. The H.oly La.nd Foundation was taken apart for its support for te.rr.ori.sts.

Oswald was a co..mm.ie. Com.mun.i.sm and radical I.sl.am.ism are both utopian, totalitarian ideologies. Whitman was a n.u.t with a brain tumor.

What is it about all those kids ki.l.li.ng each other in Chicago? What is it about Illinois and its young men?

[GarryLad]

I dunno about chicago... Perhaps you are attempting to make a point about your president. If you are, I do not get it.

[Gidster]

Very few facts in your speculations.....

[lafrance]

I am sick to death of the journalists latest way of writing lazy stories. Analogies.
Everything is like something else. Is Ft. Hood like Columbine? Is Obama like (name every president of the 20th century)? Is Afghanistan (or any war after 1974) like Vietnam? on and on and on.
It is lazy and it is annoying.
Everything and everyone is unique to their own era and own self, issue, ect.

[MamaBird62]

Then why would you click on a link that is clearly an essay on a topic you say annoys you? David Cullen is a brilliant author. His book "Columbine" is the best nonfiction book I've read in the past couple of years. He is an expert on that subject, and so in the face of yet another mass shooting of Americans going about their daily lives, his opinions on the subject are of interest. To characterize his writing as "lazy and annoying" is, well, lazy and annoying!

If it's not interesting to you, then don't read it!

[JulieSA]

From the article: "Ten years after Columbine, most of the public still believes it was about jocks, Goths and the Trench Coat Ma.f.ia. No, no and no....Eric Har.ris and Dylan Kleb.old were not loners, outc.asts or misf.its, nor were most of the school sho.o.ters. Most sh.oo.ters do not fit the profile we have come to accept, because no accur.ate profile exists. Eric and Dylan don’t even fit a profile of each other: they were dramatically different boys in both personality and motive. They set the b.om.bs and pulled the tri.gg.ers for very different reasons."

Yes, Columbine was not about bu.lly.ing, and neither was this s.ho.ot.ing.

[Gasparilla]

If I remember correctly they were both on some type of mood altering medications? Personally, I think that is done far too much.

[JulieSA]

From what I've read, the leader of the two was a sociopath.

[JulieSA]

From what I've read, the leader of the two was a s.oc.io.pa.th. You may be right about the drugs too. I don't remember offhand.

[Gasparilla]

Some have suggested that he did this because of "discrimination". But which came first, the chicken or the egg. He was complained about by several other soldiers and classmates because of statements like islam came before the constitution. It's more than likely the "discrimination" was just people who reported his extremist views.

[Joe Caps]

maybe he caught some sh*t because he was defending those who attack our men and women in the military. That would be expected, and called for.

[JulieSA]

I think you're right. His colleagues were alarmed by the things he was saying, especially since they all take an oath to defend the constitution from all enemies.

[mabinog]

I suspect some of the statements he made caused anger not because they put Islam before the Constitution but because he was Muslim and put Islam before Christianity.

How many right wing Christians in the military would put the Bible before the Constitution.

Do we have any clue how many extremists of any faith are in our military?

[Gidster]

Yet there are chaplains in the military right now teaching that very thing. To put their Evangelical Christian faith before their service, before their oath and before their country.

There seems to be a radical shift in the chaplain corps to preach radical evangelical Christianity.

Yet no one thinks this is alarming.

[tiredofthesameoldstuff]

"How many right wing Christians in the military would put the Bible before the Constitution."

Pretty much all of them. Their very own past faith leaders considered the Constitution and the founding of this country to be an act against God and that democracy was godless.

[Gasparilla]

He made the statements. What you "suspect" is meaningless.