China To Obama: Dalai Lama Was A Slave Master In Tibet

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ALEXA OLESEN | 11/15/09 06:25 AM | AP

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Dalai Lama

BEIJING — The conviction was clear but the message befuddling: China's Foreign Ministry spokesman was equating serfdom in Tibet to slavery in the U.S. – just ahead of President Barack Obama's first trip to China.

Was it a monumental gaffe, last-minute stab at finding a common frame of reference, or a canny piece of strategy designed to redefine the U.S.-China dispute over Tibet?

Whatever the motivation or intended effect, the response so far probably won't be to Beijing's liking. Among academics, activists and commentators, the remarks have been labeled illogical, ignorant, and even insensitive.

Ministry spokesman Qin Gang's argument broke down like this: Obama, as the first black U.S. president and an admirer of Abraham Lincoln, should appreciate the importance of liberating slaves – exactly what China says it did in Tibet in 1959.

"We hope that President Obama, more than any other foreign dignitary, can have a better and deeper understanding of China's position regarding safeguarding its national sovereignty and territorial integrity," Qin said.

Such reasoning struck some as patently offensive to Obama for linking his policy decisions to the color of his skin, and to Tibetans, who revere the Dalai Lama as part of their Buddhist faith.

"It is an insult for the unelected and authoritarian Chinese government to suggest that an instinctive democrat such as Abraham Lincoln would have sided with China in seeking to deny the Tibetan people their fundamental right to determine their own future," said Stephanie Brigden, director of the Free Tibet campaign.

White House officials when asked on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Singapore for a response to Qin's statement had no comment.

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To be sure, Qin's words underscored the huge gulf in perception between China and the West over Tibet and its exiled Buddhist leader.

China views Tibet, which communist troops entered in 1950, as inherently part of its territory and key symbol of Chinese sovereignty and independence.

Many Tibetans and their supporters in the West say Tibet was effectively independent for most of its history and regard Chinese rule as occupation for the sake of economic exploitation.

The divide is even more bitter regarding the Dalai Lama himself.

To Western eyes, he is a spiritual leader who works tirelessly promoting rights and freedoms for Tibetans and who has promoted democratic, not feudal, values as leader of the self-proclaimed Tibetan government-in-exile in India since fleeing there in 1959. The Dalai Lama says he seeks only meaningful autonomy for Tibet under Chinese rule, not independence.

To China, he is a former slave master, covert secessionist and general evildoer. Such sentiments have only hardened in the wake of anti-government riots in Tibet last year that left at least 22 dead.

"The Dalai Lama was the overall leader of the Tibetan serf system in 1959, and when the Chinese government abolished that system it marked a tremendous step forward for the cause of human rights," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin told reporters on Thursday. "In the same way, President Lincoln abolished slavery in the United States."

Qin was simply trying to use an historical analogy that would be familiar to nearly every American and that should carry particular resonance for Obama, said Shen Dingli, director of the Center for American Studies at Shanghai's Fudan University.

"I am kind of supporting Qin Gang," said Shen. "The West has been accustomed to listening to the Dalai Lama's argument and they do not care to listen to our argument."

However, Robbie Barnett, director of the modern Tibetan studies program at Columbia University, said he sees Qin's comparison less as a conciliatory gesture and more as an attempt to reframe the issue on China's terms. Beijing wants Americans to see Tibet through the lens of their own history and come to think of Tibet as a region of China with troubled, racially tinged history, and not a region that is seeking or might deserve greater autonomy.

"They want the Americans to start referring to the Tibetan issue as an ethnic problem because Chinese see ethnic issues as common to almost all countries," he said.

BEIJING — The conviction was clear but the message befuddling: China's Foreign Ministry spokesman was equating serfdom in Tibet to slavery in the U.S. – just ahead of President Barack Obam...
BEIJING — The conviction was clear but the message befuddling: China's Foreign Ministry spokesman was equating serfdom in Tibet to slavery in the U.S. – just ahead of President Barack Obam...
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I am a Tibetan Buddhist..­. I revere His Holiness the Dalai Lama. However, isn't it interesting that he was ruler for life of a theocratic nation? How many of us in the West would find this political structure acceptable? I know that many people who support the Dalai Lama are also against the idea of Islamic theocracy. That Islam is quite different from Buddhist is irrelevant­... if we don't believe theocracies are a good of government, that principle should apply regardless of the religion in question.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 11/21/2009

The Chinese have ZERO credibility on calling anyone a slave master. If you read any reliable news source about what the Chinese are doing in Africa zimbabwesituation.comm, for one), i.e., moving in and establishing hegemony by pretending to develop the continent, while quite literally buying the corrupt rulers of any number of countries and gaining near total control over Africa's resources, their labeling anyone else a "slave master" is so Orwellian that only a fascist or communist rationale could come up with it. Robert Mugabe, one of the filthiest, most vicious murderers in Africa's history, responsible for the current complete meltdown in Zimbabwe, just enjoyed a visit to Beijing and complimented the Chinese on their contribution to Africa. He discreetly neglected to mention what they are pillaging at the same time.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 PM on 11/15/2009

Wow, an American complains about what Chinese did in Africa?

In other news, Hitler condemns Chinese for what they did to the Jews.

To stop being so ignorant, you really need to start reading EVERYTHING, instead of your collection of "reliable sources"

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 11/16/2009
- Tulka2 I'm a Fan of Tulka2 253 fans permalink
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I am excited to see this post by a new poster. Are you one of the 35,000 Chinese who sit down to a computer in China every day to spread propaganda? Seriously. Are you?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 11/17/2009
- talkitreal I'm a Fan of talkitreal 45 fans permalink

If Americans want to better control their economy - Americans need to start buying AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS! Only when America starts supporting American manufacturers, will we encourage the regrowth of American economic dominance.

BUY AMERICAN ! It is not about protectionism - It is about survival of the American economy!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 PM on 11/15/2009
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When American employers stop paying their American employees bottom dollar, maybe they can afford to buy American products. Then you just need to convince American companies to use American materials, labor, and technology. Good luck.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 11/15/2009
- talkitreal I'm a Fan of talkitreal 45 fans permalink

The Chinese Foreign minister is a as*hole!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 PM on 11/15/2009
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smart with math not so smart with anything else.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 11/15/2009
- jasev01 I'm a Fan of jasev01 10 fans permalink

Dear Ms. Brigden,

Lincoln was a Republican. While unpopular, and while the party may have changed, the fact remains. Your attempt to villainize the Chinese for patronizing Obama by appealing to him as an African American and speaking of slavery, is undermined by your attempt to appeal to him as a Democrat like Lincoln particularity when Lincoln was not. While your point is well taken, creating facts to fit your narrative does not help you.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 PM on 11/15/2009
- GunneraGirl I'm a Fan of GunneraGirl 126 fans permalink
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the author wrote of lincoln as a democrat, with a small d , a perfectly acceptable use of the term. she wasnot intending the Democratic party.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 PM on 11/15/2009
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In this issue, China is absolutely correct. I abhor the the DPRC government, but they are right in their assertion that the West is accustomed to the romanticized illusion of the "Free Tibet" movement and the Dalai Lama without understanding some very core facts about the actual issues. Westerners are oblivious to the fact the Tibetans lived in isolated poverty acting as worshiping serfs to the aristocratic religious class that lived in relative opulence and luxury. Punishment included torture. Since the Chinese reaffirmed their control of the Tibetan region, they now have schools, running water, and connections to the modern world they didn't have before. The Dalai Lama has no significance to the DPRC but as an agitator. He is a religious authority from consensus of Tibetan Buddhist beliefs looking to affirm the Tibet he wants where he is the worshiped idol of other Tibetans as he sits higher than others on a throne. If people want to believe Tibet and the Dalai Lama are harmless, smiling, spiritual Tibetans living in peace and harmony until the evil atheist Chinese invaded, then that is a wholly naive position to take. The Dalai Lama was a theocratic and aristocratic slave master in control of a mass of poor serfs. It is a fact.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 PM on 11/15/2009

The biggest threat to discussion and sharing between cultures on the Internet, is the loud mouthed political/religious extremists (on both sides) in America, and the hoards of young Chinese men who echo the same pride-hurt face-saving dishonest garbage they've been indoctrinated with.

I saw it constantly when I lived in China, and I see 10x as much of it now via the Internet. It's obnoxious. When the CCP stops censoring its journalists and human rights lawyers, I'll wait half a generation and then start talking CCP claims seriously. They've cried wolf for too long, and now its hard to take any argument they make seriously.

I know this will inviate recrimination -- "But the U.S.....!" Yes. Of course, all nations have tarnished and ugly pasts. Get over it and let's live on our planet in peace. Every government propagandizes its people, but I've yet to see another large country where the young population so fervently echoes it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 AM on 11/16/2009
- gubbi I'm a Fan of gubbi 3 fans permalink
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By that logic, you can call the current chinese regime as well as the earlier kings who ruled china as slave masters.

The development works in Tibet comes at the cost of Tibetans, who are looked upon as low class citizens on their own land. It has mostly benefited the Han chinese migrants and the condition of many Tibetans is still poor.

It also comes at the cost of Tibetans having to letgo of their core religious principles and freedoms.

The Tibetans themselves do not want the Chinese occupancy.

It's about people's will. The Chinese want communism, they have it. The Tibetans want autonomy and by your logic, poverty and serfdom... they should have it.

Painting China as having platonic interest of liberating Tibetans from their religious leaders, is naive. If that were true, Tibetans would have had meaningful autonomy and respect in Tibet.

And for you information, Dalai Lama does not seek independence. And has never been proven to be involved in any of the recent agitations and riots in Tibet. The Chinese barred every journalist from Tibet and fed the world their own story. They are the 21st century slave masters.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 AM on 11/16/2009
- mikeodd I'm a Fan of mikeodd 4 fans permalink

"In a statement released today by Beijing, the current policy cannot be altered until the tyrannical Buddhists reduce their massive carbon footprint, respect human rights and end the oppressive internet crackdown.­"

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 11/15/2009

Uhhh.....t­he Chinese killed 1 million Tibetans..­...which had a population of 6 million...­..

But during the time when the Dalai Lama was exiled, the Chinese govt had such an immense propaganda campaign that ordinary civilians would never know about the atrocities.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 11/15/2009

The Chinese government is well aware of at least two facts. One, Obama snubbed the Dalai Lama only recently. Two, Obama played/plays the race card better than anyone. Given this, their remarks are not surprising.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 PM on 11/15/2009
- Greg2000 I'm a Fan of Greg2000 8 fans permalink

Your ignorance is beyond belief and sickening. Only in this country somebody with such a poor judgment and a total absence of discernment can be that loud. But I get it. You're entitled to your opinion because even Beck does.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 11/15/2009
- talkitreal I'm a Fan of talkitreal 45 fans permalink

You are so uninformed!

Firstly, when the Dalai lama was on CNN just recently (being interviewed by Wolff Blitzer), The Dalai Lama said that he and Obama have a good reationship that he really liked President Obama, and has spoke to Obama on the phone quite a few times. The Dalai Lama also said that he DID NOT have any problem at all with President Obama visiting China, before he had a State visit with Obama at the White House. IN FACT, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE Dalai said on CNN:

"He already indicated that he's going to speak with the Chinese and it seems he (will be) seriously engaging with the Chinese about (the) Tibet issue," the Dalai Lama told CNN's "Situation Room" in an interview in Washington.

"More serious discussion is better than just a picture, so I have no disappointment," the 74-year-old Buddhist monk said, referring to a missed photo opportunity with Obama.

The Dalai Lama also described President Obama as eager to do "something practical" to help the rights situation in Tibet, and the Dalai Lama urged critics "to think more holistically" and not focus on the lack of a meeting at the White House.

The Dalai Lama, told CNN he expected to meet Obama in Washington after the U.S. president's November summit with Chinese leader Hu Jintao, at the end of this year or early in 2010.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5976GD20091008

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 11/15/2009
- DannyEV I'm a Fan of DannyEV 30 fans permalink
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yaknow...i­t's amazing, the political ineptitude of the Chinese government. When she was in HK the other month did they hire Sarah Palin as a consultant?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 11/15/2009
- GunneraGirl I'm a Fan of GunneraGirl 126 fans permalink
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the group that palin met in hk last month were westerners from an american-based investment group. not chinese.

the chinese are simply trying to tell the biggest lie they can possibly frame.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 PM on 11/15/2009

Can someone remind the Chinese about Mao's forced march? And from what little I know of Asian countries, I am quite sure the Chinese elites do have their own modern version of serfs, servants brought in from rural areas and treated like slaves.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:17 PM on 11/15/2009
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 137 fans permalink
    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 PM on 11/15/2009
- Cautious I'm a Fan of Cautious 15 fans permalink
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A good book on globalization of the world economy, such as NO LOGO by Naomi Klein, might expand on that thought rather well.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 PM on 11/15/2009
- WilliamL I'm a Fan of WilliamL 31 fans permalink

Tho cares what the chinese gov't and/or any of their spokes people have to say?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 11/15/2009
- DannyEV I'm a Fan of DannyEV 30 fans permalink
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I'm afraid well over a billion people do.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 PM on 11/15/2009
- vtandback I'm a Fan of vtandback 2 fans permalink

Here is an article entirely refuting Michael Parenti's flawed history and views of Tibet: http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=425

The Dalai Lama was not a slave owner!

No, Tibet was not perfect pre-1959. but to say that it is better now under a foreign military occupation is patently false, racist, and denies the right of the Tibetan people to shape their own country. These claims are merely used to justify China's imperialist annexation of an independent country and the brutal repression of it's people that continues to this day.

Sam

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 PM on 11/15/2009

If you don't believe Praenti, I give you Bertrand Russell

The Buddha was amiable and enlightened; on his deathbed he laughed at his disciples for supposing that he was immortal. But the Buddhist priesthood --- as it exists, for example, in Tibet --- has been obscurantist, tyrannous, and cruel in the highest degree.

---Bertrand Russell, ``Has Religion Made Useful Contributions to Civilisation?'' (1930)

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 11/15/2009
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 137 fans permalink
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lolll...go­od choice. I've often wonder if Bertrand Russell's words and philosophy were used to subvert William Jefferson Clinton.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 PM on 11/15/2009
- Cautious I'm a Fan of Cautious 15 fans permalink
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I still don't see any factual citations. Quoting Bertrand Russell is dubious at best. What about the Holy Roman Empire and the Spanish Inquisition? I mean, "Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!". How do alleged abuses in Tibet stack up against known historical abuses?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 11/15/2009
- DannyEV I'm a Fan of DannyEV 30 fans permalink
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I'm sure Russell's critique can be applied to every society with a priestly caste. The only reason the clergy can't do it here (as easily) is because we are a secular republic. But they find ways...god KNOWS they clergy find ways..

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 PM on 11/15/2009
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Self-determination is so 1950. The banker has spoken.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 PM on 11/15/2009
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