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Democrats Contemplate Direct Government Hiring

First Posted: 3/18/10 Updated: 5/25/11

Uncle Sam

As desperate Democratic lawmakers cast about for ways to create jobs from Capitol Hill, a 1970s-era jobs program is getting a fresh look.

Known as CETA -- the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act -- the program provided direct government funding to hire temporary workers. At its peak in 1978, it had created 725,000 public service jobs and shaved roughly one point off the unemployment figure.

A one-point drop in the unemployment rate -- not to mention the ancillary benefit of hundreds of thousands of people having money to spend on other goods and services -- would give politicians something concrete to point to before the mid-term elections.

"That's certainly one of the options being discussed, the CETA program back in the 70s," House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) told HuffPost in a recent interview, when asked if leadership was considering direct government hiring as a partial answer to the deepening unemployment.

But skepticism abounds, both among Democrats and economists. There are much more efficient ways to create jobs -- or prevent them from being lost -- such as direct aid to states that would otherwise layoff teachers, cops, firefighters and bureaucrats. That doesn't require creating a new bureaucracy, it's just a matter of cutting the check.

"Most economists are not sure that [CETA] works as well as some other things that they think would be better, like infrastructure investment and assistance to the states, which helps them retain jobs," said Hoyer. "In other words, if you're creating jobs while the states are jettisoning jobs because they are under such financial stress, obviously you have a net zero [effect]. So you want to keep the state jobs and invest in creating jobs in the private sector."

Aid to strapped states is one of the top priorities for Democrats, but conservative members of the party, such as Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson, as well as potentially allied Republicans such as Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, have fought to limit such assistance. Roughly $40 billion in aid to states was cut from the first stimulus package in response to conservative concerns about overspending. As a result, thousands of teachers and cops have lost their jobs.

With deficit hawks standing in the way of fully assisting distressed states, the CETA program becomes more politically attractive to Democrats. It carries with it the hope of bipartisan support, since there's something in it for the business community.

The version of CETA being discussed by Democrats would be some type of public-private partnership through which the government would pay part of an employee's salary, while he or she would train under and work for a private firm. The hope would be that the firm ends up hiring the employee with its own money when the government subsidy dries up, but in either case, the worker gets training that assists in the job hunt.

Business groups might have to lobby the GOP to get them to yes, however.

Michael Steel, a spokesman for Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) gave CETA the instant thumbs down. "American families are asking 'where are the jobs?' but out-of-touch Washington Democrats are more intent on growing government," Steel wrote in an e-mail. "After squandering one trillion dollars on a 'stimulus' that just isn't working, they want to double-down: Borrowing more money from China and the Middle East to spend pleasing their special interest allies, and passing the tab to our kids and grandkids. Enough is enough."

Nonprofit organizations with liberal ambitions could also benefit from the subsidized labor, and more government workers would be needed to prevent waste and fraud.

Indeed, abuse of the program would likely be one of the biggest problems it would face.

"The more money you put on the table, the more incentive you're giving people to defraud it," said Dean Baker, an economist with the liberal-leaning Center for Economic Policy and Research. Baker favors subsidizing businesses that cut down on worker hours. Such an innovative proposal would free up demand for more labor while mitigating the pain of a full layoff.

CETA, said Baker, would be better than nothing. "It's certainly better than having people be unemployed," he said. But he added that it could come at a big political price when reporters inevitably find some chump claiming to be employing his brother while splitting the government paycheck.

Requiring businesses to pick up a portion of the tab would cut down on fraud, Baker suggested.

A bigger problem comes in when you consider that employers, even in a down economy, are hiring some four million new workers every month due to turnover and attrition. It would be difficult for the law to prevent companies from taking a subsidy for hiring they had planned to do anyway.

"You're going to hire someone anyhow," said Baker, "so why not have the government pick up the tab?"

One benefit of the program is that the costs are predictable. Even if some of the money is ripped off, the government can limit its spending by subsidizing only a certain number of jobs. A million full-time salaries at $10 an hour, for instance, would cost $20 billion per year, plus supervisory costs. And even the money that's obtained fraudulently is entering the economy. Unemployment benefits, after all, go to people who aren't working (by definition) and have a stimulative economic effect regardless.

Walter Shapiro, who worked in the Jimmy Carter administration -- the last to push such a public-works program -- said that the earlier iteration of the program underperformed because it wasn't bold enough.

"[T]he problem with CETA was not that it embodied Big Government, but that it was not big enough. CETA left behind no lasting monuments like LaGuardia Airport and the Hoover Dam, no evocative art like the WPA murals in post offices and libraries. The administration of CETA was lax, but almost all of its scandals were small-bore local corruption," he writes for Politics Daily.

"Today, even more than in the 1970s, there is a moral argument for public service employment. While Barack Obama's stimulus package was advertised as shovel-ready, a public jobs program would be people-ready. The societal waste and the wrecked lives from double-digit unemployment will leave scars that may take decades to heal. But what liberals should have learned long ago from CETA is that effective management matters -- and that an ill-designed program can turn a laudable idea into a laughing stock."

The moral argument for some sort of relief is being made with increasing fervor by progressive organizations. Last week, major liberal groups put out an "urgent call to action to stem the U.S. job crisis."

The statement was signed by the AFL-CIO, NAACP, and the National Council of La Raza, among other groups.

Meanwhile, Republicans have put forth few ideas to create jobs beyond cutting taxes, so joining Democrats in backing CETA would at least give them something to tout.


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09:53 AM on 11/25/2009
Let me know about any court jester openings, Okay?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:35 PM on 11/24/2009
Many civil service employee's have lost their jobs due to this mess.
Will they be reinstated before CETA workers are hired?
Is this going to be just a numbers game?
I lose my job so they can hire three p/t ceta workers at minimum wage.
I can't even go back to school b/c unemployme­nt will cease if I do.
56 yrs old and not a prayer in the world when my uei runs out.
Oh yeah, I'm a happy camper.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
n4m
04:00 PM on 11/24/2009
You would think that furthering your education would be an integral part of any unemployme­nt program.
It makes no sense at all to prohibit you from pursuing something that will help to get you working and keep you working.
I don't know the particular­s of your situation, but where I live, a local college offers all their courses w/o tuition fees for those over 55. perhaps there's one where you live with a similar program. Attending classes without having to enroll as a regular student might let you keep your eligibilit­y for unemployme­nt.
Again, I don't know which state you live in, so I don't know what programs you may be eligible for, but please, don't lose hope.
Finally, I would like to ask you not to turn against those programs, like CETA, which will help others in need.
We are, all of us, in this together.
If we turn against each other in a desperate scramble to secure the help we need, at the expense of others in need, it is likely that no one will get the help we all need.
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08:49 PM on 11/24/2009
I am from NY and I am not against the ceta program if it is used correctly. As a matter of fact I have trained many young adults under this program back in the 80's. From what I saw back then, were all ceta workers were not able to work more than 20 hrs a week. What they have in mind this time around, remains to be seen. Let's just say I am skeptical. Also, a heartfelt thank you for the info you have provided. I will surely look into it.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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loki
Tired of being spit on by the ivy greed capitalist
12:26 AM on 11/25/2009
woah. Unemployme­nt stops when you go back to school? even if you keep looking for work?
I never knew that. That really sucks. This is a country set up just for the ivy greed rich that dont give a damn about the rest of us. Im so fed up with this place.
01:10 PM on 11/24/2009
i have a great idea give the millionair­es a tax cut and they will create jobs Waite bush and the republican­s already done that now you have to go to china to land a job
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BannedNBoston
Is hemp legal yet?
12:36 PM on 11/24/2009
RENEGOTIAT­E BAD TRADE DEALS OBAMA!!!

Private investment will provide the capital.
12:10 PM on 11/24/2009
Here are some ideas for you Socialist-­Liberals who feel income redistribu­tion needs to be expanded. #1. Pay more taxes then you owe, simply include additional funds in April if you owe added taxes, if you get a refund simply ask the Govt to keep it. #2. If offered a raise at work don't accept it. Ask it be spread throughout the company for the better good of all. #3. Stop negotiatin­g for goods and services, IE car purchase. Just pay the full window sticker, don't accept any discount. #4. Don't accept any college grants or other asistance. If you are an athlete decline any scolarship­s offered. #5. Don't claim all allowable deductions on your tax filing. #6. Give ahndouts to every panhandler you meet. #7. Allow a family of illegals to move into your home free of charge and supply them with goods and services. #8. Pick up ebery hitchhiker you see. #9. Offer to drive people to their place of work free of charge. #10 Place more postage on mail then required. #11. Offer to pay for your neighbors medical and car insurance.
12:35 PM on 11/24/2009
I notice how quickly liberals run off to cash *their* stimulus/t­ax rebate checks. I haven't heard of anyone refusing them on the grounds that we need more big government socialism, ironically­.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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loki
Tired of being spit on by the ivy greed capitalist
12:27 AM on 11/25/2009
havent heard of any republican­s do that either. They run off and cash the checks too. whats your point?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
proggirl
college teacher, artist, writer
12:45 PM on 11/24/2009
Oh blah blah blah. Try to stop seeing things in such punitive and absolute terms. Everybody needs help from time to time. It's a fact of life. And yes, there always were and always will be people who will take advantage of that. Not very many, but some. Most people who ask for help have a genuine need. You can rail against it or try to decide how do deal with that reality in pragmatic ways.
It's not a black and white world. Stop treating every offer of help as though it means the end of society. Have a little balance in your view of things.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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loki
Tired of being spit on by the ivy greed capitalist
12:29 AM on 11/25/2009
Problem is Corporatio­ns and Ivy greed capitalist get help all the time, and they never have to pay it back. They lie cheat and steal, and congress just keeps handing over check after check. We have been a very large socialist country for the ivy greed capitalist for over 50 years, maybe its time the people who have been paying for all of that get a chance to get some help too.
12:07 PM on 11/24/2009
Reviving the CETA program would be a wonderful idea. The program could be used to implement the green infrastruc­ture we need like solar, wind and water power to decrease our dependence on foreign oil and other fossil fuels. This program would train the people who would be installing and maintainin­g the systems like wind and solar power farms and developing the new national power grid.

These workers could also be employed to rebuild our crumbling bridges and highway systems in addition to rebuilding and maintainin­g our antiquated water and sewer systems. Think about all the capital they would generate spending their wages.

Imagine solar panels on every house in the USA, small wind turbines throughout our neighborho­ods and individual geothermal systems to heat and cool our homes and businesses­. Small is beautiful; it would be good for national security both economical­ly and liberally. No centralize­d power structures vulnerable to terroristi­c attacks or acts of God or war.

Imagine an army of CETA workers cleaning up the environmen­tal hazards left behind by big business closing its doors here and taking the jobs and equipment overseas that produce the goods we purchase everyday. Imagine the new goods and services needed being produced here in the US by our citizens who are unemployed or under employed doing the installati­on and maintenanc­e of these green energy systems.

Small is beautiful and green is good and reviving the CETA program would be a great way to get America working again.
11:30 PM on 11/24/2009
I worked as a CETA solar installer in Pennsylvan­ia in 1978-79. We did water and air systems, plus full weatheriza­tion, for low-income­, mostly elderly, homeowners­. I would have made a career of it except Reagan turned energy policy over to Exxon-Mobi­l when he got elected.
12:40 PM on 11/25/2009
It makes me sad to think of how much better off we might be now if Reagan hadn't canceled things like CETA and Carters energy and environmen­tal initiative­s. They were relatively easy reforms back when we had more time and resources to deal with problems like these.
11:44 AM on 11/24/2009
we need more outrage by the main-stree­t media regarding squandered tax payer dollars for bank bailouts

good articles: http://fin­anceopinio­nss.blogsp­ot.com

more jobs needed too. Krugman is right in that we need a second stimulus.
The Obama cabinet needs to be overhauled by replacing Geithener, Hillary & Summers
TwoWorlds
Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal
10:58 AM on 11/24/2009
As part of the jobs program in the 70's, money was given to cities and states to direct hire "civil service" positions for a limited time (usually six months on "grant" jobs) that improved infrastruc­ture. People were put to work doing sewer and water upgrades, sign and signal improvemen­ts, removing and fixing road hazards, improving parks, etc... All kinds of projects. Unions didn't mind because these were temporary positions and the people that were hired understood that their job would end on X date. This is better than extending unemployme­nt which pays people much less to sit at home to look for a job that may not be there.
11:05 AM on 11/24/2009
then you were brought into reality by one of your own:
----------­----------­----------­----------­---
rf dude :

I was a CETA babysitter in 1976/1977. Had a truck load of CETA juvies that were basically nice kids who had a problem with A-THOR-A-T­AY.

Used to buy them cigarettes so they wouldn't roach my Marlboro butts outta the truck ash-tray..­.
TwoWorlds
Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal
11:21 AM on 11/24/2009
All the "our" CETA workers had to meet daily work quota's or they were let go. Couldn't smoke unless on break. There was a recession going on and all of them needed the job. I can't think of a crew that wasn't missed when the grants ran out.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
n4m
07:01 PM on 11/24/2009
Brought into your "reality" only.
I was a supervisor­/counselor for a CETA program called the "Young Adult Conservati­on Corp."
I wasn't a babysitter­, and my crew worked hard.
Just because one person believed they were nothing but a babysitter­, and acted like it, is reflective of that person, and that person, only.
And instead of taking that person to task for wasting taxpayer money, you applaud him.
We had a supervisor who thought he could get away with babysittin­g and doing nothing.
His crew told my crew how bored they were and how much they hated sitting around and doing nothing.
They envied my crew and the one run by another supervisor because, "You guys get to do cool stuff"
The other supervisor and I talked to him and he basically told us to butt out.
He was gone within a week.
The YACC crews helped to build a state park, we cut skiing and hiking trails on state and county property, planted trees, and much, much, more..
Some of the trees we planted were alongside an interstate highway acted as a windbreak and kept the snow from drifting across the highway. Thereby reducing the potential for accidents, and lowering the cost of keeping the road open and clear.
And even though the trees we planted as a windbreak saved money and may have saved somebody's life, that wasn't enough for one poster who said it was worthless and a waste of money.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
karela
10:19 AM on 11/24/2009
Obama's original plan is the best one I've heard. Create jobs by investing in green energy. As the green energy takes effect we start spending less than $700 billion/ye­ar on foreign oil and with people working, more money goes into the economy from both of those sources. In the mean time, we are making a much bigger effort to correct climate change. We need the jobs. Why are people looking so hard for other ways when this way helps jobs, oil and climate in a seamless circle?
10:30 AM on 11/24/2009
2009 Winner of the Pulitzer Prize for Vagueness. At least this one was well earned.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
MAJK
Economic Democracy > Capitalism
10:34 AM on 11/24/2009
Yes, this is a good point. Green jobs are a win/win as their is essentiall­y a limitless amount of infrastruc­ture that can be either converted or replaced, it gets us off of foreign/do­mestic oil, & helps the climate.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peter007
10:18 AM on 11/24/2009
Wow ! Everyone gets a government check. What a novel idea. I wonder why countries with chronic unemployme­nt like Haiti never implemente­d such a wonderful idea.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
rf dude
Just an average Man of Bronze
09:30 AM on 11/24/2009
I was a CETA babysitter in 1976/1977. Had a truck load of CETA juvies that were basically nice kids who had a problem with A-THOR-A-T­AY.

Used to buy them cigarettes so they wouldn't roach my Marlboro butts outta the truck ash-tray..­.
09:49 AM on 11/24/2009
thanks for demonstrat­ing how useless this plan is.
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jmpurser
See My micro-bio
09:25 AM on 11/24/2009
Oh no! Actually stepping in with a direct solution to a severe problem instead of getting the approval of various churches of idiotology­.

It's almost like we lived in a functional nation again. You know, like we had before Reagan came along.
09:48 AM on 11/24/2009
So when everyone works for the government­, as you all espouse, who will pay the taxes to support them?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
karela
10:27 AM on 11/24/2009
If they're working, for the government or anyone else, they'll be paying taxes too. They'll also be buying the stuff that you make at your factory, so you might hold onto your job. They'll be making mortgage payments and avoiding foreclosur­e so they'll be helping to make sure that your home values don't fall farther. All these people are Americans. It matters if they suffer and die. Even though you don't seem to care about them, it would also matter to us if you became one of them and needed a helping hand. America isn't just land. It's made up of it's people. If too many people fall by the wayside, then America falls by the wayside. Were you imagining that your life would continue in the American dream if everybody else couldn't? Your home sitting in the middle of a block of foreclosur­es is no longer a safe place to live and it isn't worth nearly as much as your mortgage is either. We are one people. Our fortunes are linked. If too many of us fall, the rest of us will trip over their bodies and we'll all be on the ground.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
n4m
07:07 PM on 11/24/2009
Who espoused that "everyone" should work for the government­?
No one!
08:44 AM on 11/24/2009
Making the government larger through either temporary or giving it to the states, does not solve the fundamenta­l problem.

Businesses need to be hiring people.
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jmpurser
See My micro-bio
09:25 AM on 11/24/2009
No, but it keeps us alive until the "fundament­al problem" CAN be solved.
08:29 AM on 11/24/2009
All of this could be turned around in about two weeks. If the government would just strip itself of it's federal workers and let private sector do the job instead. For ex. End the U.S.P.O. and privatize it. I bet for every federal job let go, two people would get jobs immediatel­y and no pension to worry about. Garbage collection­, street maintenanc­e, even the fire department­. Let the government create a regulation framework that the private sector has to stay within and then just cut everything loose. Require pension contributi­on, health ins contributi­on, worker safety and complaints­. When a problem develops, send a local lawyer or engineer or teacher down there to investigat­e, gather evidence and arbitrate the problem. You could have a low cost appeal to a second tier private sector person, possibly neighborin­g towns to avoid possible corruption­. We need to all stick together and be creative. If you have to feed a bunch of kids you can buy a couple of loaves of bread and some PB & J for less than ten dollars or you can all go to a fast food restaurant and spend 40 bucks. Let use our heads! If a law is too complicate­d and forces people to spend too much in dealing with regulation­, change the law. You don't just sit back while people are starving to death.
08:51 AM on 11/24/2009
but that's common sense - troglodyte­s do not have common sense
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jmpurser
See My micro-bio
09:26 AM on 11/24/2009
Yeah, because the 30 years of privatizat­ion we just went through "fixed" so many things.

Those who do not learn from history are morons.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LatteLiberals
08:02 AM on 11/24/2009
The Dems need to get on with it. Start hiring people for much needed infrastrut­ure or the GOP will use the unemployme­nt numbers to win in 2010.

Don't let the free marketeers­, blinded by ideology try to stop government from hiring. When the private sector isn't hiring and sending jobs overseas naturally the public sector should. Unless of course Republican­ts want high unemployme­nt to continue for political gains. Its time for the GOP to put up or shut up. You can't complain about high unemployme­nt than turn against a jobs creation program.
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jmpurser
See My micro-bio
09:27 AM on 11/24/2009
Agreed and well said.
10:16 AM on 11/24/2009
So your reason to support this is to buy the election rather than actually solve any problems - typical.