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Obama's Questions For Obama

First Posted: 03/18/10 06:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 03:50 PM ET

Obama

Just under three years ago, when another presidential administration was insisting that its military commitment in a faraway land was not open-ended -- but was refusing to explain what that really meant -- a young senator from Illinois asked the secretary of state some very good questions.

What if things don't go according to plan? What if the occupied country's government remains in shambles? What exactly are the benchmarks for success? And what are the consequences if they are not met? Is the United States really willing to walk away?

Those were the questions then-senator Barack Obama had for then-secretary of state Condoleezza Rice about President Bush's decision to send 20,000 more troops into Iraq.

Rice didn't have any good answers. Now it's Obama's turn.

As I wrote on Tuesday afternoon, before his speech, for President Obama to really deliver on his promise of an endgame, he had to do more than just describe an unsupported best-case scenario.

What Obama needed to announce was not just a timeframe for troop withdrawals to begin, but a detailed timeline all the way to complete pullout. He needed to put forth unambiguous benchmarks by which to measure success. And most importantly, he needed to explain precisely what happens if the benchmarks aren't met - i.e. if things don't go according to plan. Because they won't.

Instead, after announcing the deployment of 30,000 additional troops, Obama said that he will "begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011." He provided no sense of how quickly that would take place, or when the withdrawal would be complete, saying that would depend on "conditions on the ground."

A drawdown would be possible, he said, because 19 months from now the improved security climate and training of Afghan forces resulting from his temporary escalation would give rise to an Afghan government ready to start taking responsibility for its own country.

But what if everything doesn't turn out exactly the way he's hoping? Is Obama really willing to walk away?

Who knows?

Here's the back-and-forth between Obama and Rice at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in January 2007.

Obama: "You continually say that we've got assurances from the [government of Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki] that it is going to be different this time. What I want to know is, number one, what are the specific benchmarks and assurances that have been received? Where are these written? How can we examine them?


"Number two, why would we not want to explicitly condition, in whatever supplementals or appropriations or whatever it is that you are doing, that these benchmarks be met, so that the American people and legislators who are voting on them have some understanding of what it is that we expect, and it's not a backroom conversation between the president and Maliki?

"Number three, what are the consequences if these benchmarks are not met? What leverage do we have that would provide us some assurance that six months from now, you will not be sitting before us again saying, 'Well, it didn't work; [radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-] Sadr's militia has not been disarmed; we have not seen sufficient cooperation with respect to distribution of oil resources; we are still seeing political interference; we have lost an additional hundred or 200 or 300 or 400 American lives; we have spent an additional hundred billion dollars; but we still can't afford to lose, and so we're going to have to proceed in the same fashion, and maybe we'll have to send more troops in'? What leverage do we have six months from now?"

Rice: "Senator, the leverage is that we're not going to stay married to a plan that's not working in Baghdad if the Iraqis are not living up to their part of the obligation, because it won't work. Unless they're prepared to make the tough political decisions -- and frankly, we know why the sectarian violence didn't come down that's -- all had hoped would. It didn't come down because there weren't enough forces when these areas were cleared to actually hold them, because there were not enough reliable Iraqi forces, and we know that there was too much political interference in what was going on.

"That's been changed in this plan, both by the augmentation of the forces with our own forces and by bringing forces in from other parts of Iraq.

"So we're not going to stay married to a plan that isn't working because the Iraqis aren't living up to their end of the bargain."

Obama: "Madame Secretary, because I think the chairman appropriately is trying to keep our time restricted, I want to just follow up on this and be very clear. Are you telling me that if in six months or whatever time frame you are suggesting that in fact the Maliki government has not performed these benchmarks -- which, by the way, remain not sufficiently explicit, I think, for a lot of us to make decisions on, but let's assume that that surfaces over the next several weeks that this is being debated -- that at that point, you are going to suggest to the Maliki government that we are going to start phasing down our troop levels in Iraq?"

Rice: "Senator, I want to be not explicit about what we might do because I don't want to speculate. But I will tell you this, the benchmark that I'm looking at -- the oil law is important, the political process is extraordinary important -- that the most important thing that the Iraqi government has to do right now is to reestablish the confidence of its population that it's going to be even-handed in defending it. That's what we need to see over the next two or three months, and I think that over the next several months they're going to have to show that."

Obama: "Or else what? Mr. Chairman -"

Rice: "Or this plan -- or this plan is not -- this plan is not going to work."

Obama: "The question is not whether the plan is going to work or not. The question is: What are the consequences if the Iraqi government -- I'm out of time, but I have to ask this question.

"Are there any circumstances that the president or you are willing to share in which we would say to the Iraqis we are no longer maintaining combat troops, American combat troops in Iraq? Are there any circumstances that you can articulate in which we would say to the Maliki government that enough is enough, and we are no longer committing our troops?"

Rice: "I'm not going to speculate, but I do tell you that the president made very clear that of course there are circumstances. That's what it means when he says our patience is not limited. But I do think we need to recognize that the consequences for the Iraqis are also quite dire, and they are in a process in which their people are going to hold them accountable as well."

Obama clearly wasn't satisfied with the answers he got then; but now he's the one unable or unwilling to answer the tough questions.

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Just under three years ago, when another presidential administration was insisting that its military commitment in a faraway land was not open-ended -- but was refusing to explain what that really mea...
Just under three years ago, when another presidential administration was insisting that its military commitment in a faraway land was not open-ended -- but was refusing to explain what that really mea...
 
 
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03:21 PM on 12/04/2009
The Generals control the White House now. Obama is just to weak to stand up to them. War on, Garth.
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rabiddog6708
This Dog's bite is Worse Than his Bark
09:08 AM on 12/03/2009
Hey, Obama, keep up the good work in Afghanistan. And thanks for your continued support.


Sincerely,

Dubya, Rummy, Wolfy and Condi

P.S. Thanks for not signing on to that anti-landmine treaty, too. I like it when they go b00m!
07:16 PM on 12/02/2009
I just listened to the Pres. attempt to justify sending 32000 young men and women to die, albeit a justification based on the same rhetoric employed 40 yrs ago(War in Vietnam). Dems and Repubs are just two factions of the same party...the party of the ruling elite that exploit the poor and weak to serve their own interests. "Yes we can..." I scoff sir. I expected more Mr. President. I'm so disappointed and I will never vote again!!!!!!!!
06:32 PM on 12/02/2009
You may be disapointed or you may be overjoyed by the Presidents speech declaring the addition of more troops and an escalation of the war. I agree w/ the author there is something suspiciously equivalent in the 'double speak' put out by not just the Bush and Obama administration but by all previous ones as well. The fact is : like it or not : War will exist as long as it's profitable. It will be profitable as long as governments (people) are willing to pay for it ! It doesn't matter whether we are fighting for a garbage dump or the nobelest ideals someone is making the jack ! We have lost control , if we ever had any , over the pentagon and military. And , believe me, "they" pull stings with all that money ; behind the sceens and sometimes right out in broad daylight as well. As if this is the way it's all supposed to be ! Timelines mean nothing : that's for the pundits and politicians to bicker about. We will have war for a very , very , long time to come ! As long as there are two people left on the face of the earth and something to disagree about ...................
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sixchair
Always left, usually right
05:23 PM on 12/02/2009
Everybody check out Zbigniew Brzezinski's comments on Morning Joe b4 you post. He gave the best analysis (10 min) of the situation. You won't find it on HP, tho, for obvious reasons. Very edifying, as ever.

Executive summary:
1. Key to defeating taliban lies in tribes (as before with Northern Alliance)
2. Central government is unlikely and not necessarily the best strategy
3. AND, MOST WORRISOME OF ALL: Pakistan sees radicalized A-stan as a buffer to India.
05:05 PM on 12/02/2009
Never before has a speech by President Barack Obama felt as false as his Tuesday address announcing America's new strategy for Afghanistan. It seemed like a campaign speech combined with Bush rhetoric -- and left both dreamers and realists feeling distraught.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,664753,00.html

That's exactly what it was, a bad campaign speech.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Joe The Nerd Ferraro
Group IQ is inversely proportional to group size.
05:12 PM on 12/02/2009
yo - from a post before about your kid's unit.

i reached out to a local congressman involved in vet affairs.

i don't know if they tracked you down yet, since i gave a cryptic description.
can you put your details in an email to joe@joesestak.com

i would do this offline, but the system here isn't conducive to that...
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Joe The Nerd Ferraro
Group IQ is inversely proportional to group size.
05:14 PM on 12/02/2009
joe at joesestak dot com
05:27 PM on 12/02/2009
I will. You don't know how grateful I am for your response and that of a couple of others. I have dealt with inadequacy issues for him on a couple of occasions with my own congressman but it potentially creates problems for him. I will contact him immediately. Thanks again.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Joe The Nerd Ferraro
Group IQ is inversely proportional to group size.
05:13 PM on 12/02/2009
i am sorry joe@joesestak.com - brainfart...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
EdRea
Trees are our native friends.
09:10 PM on 12/02/2009
Hey!
Wait a minute!
Why is it that (many!) thousands of posters have posted links that were not complete and the links were false - but yet you post an incomplete link and it's good!
The first time ever!
Doesn't matter if you are a good egg!
Shouldn't be that way!

Thank you.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
05:03 PM on 12/02/2009
Are those posting here in support of this escalating war (not vets nor those on rotations in Iraq or Afghanistan), planning to join a branch of the armed forces to help relieve those who are doing tours of service? If you support this war even in the face of the Iraq fiasco and a US economic meltdown resulting in record unemployment, skyrocketing home foreclosures, mortgage delinquencies, bankruptcies, hunger, homelessness, poverty, and are of age but don't want to go fight the Taliban, it seems your support is conditional on others doing the heavy lifting. Those who did not and do not support the Iraq War and do not support this war want to bring the troops home. Americans have been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan for close to a decade and those who've consistently opposed these wars do so wanting to prevent any American from having to invade sovereign nations for specious reasons, the truth hidden behind threats of "mushroom clouds" -- "nukes" acquired by cave-dwelling mount tribes fighting the US along Afghan Pakistan border. If you back the war, go fight the war and give some troops a permanent break from the battlefield. Those who oppose these wars will continue to do so to bring all the troops home.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Joe The Nerd Ferraro
Group IQ is inversely proportional to group size.
05:15 PM on 12/02/2009
we can't just pull the plug.

we need to do the spin down properly.

we need to tax ourselves for this.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
05:58 PM on 12/02/2009
I'll pay a war tax, even though it means eating even less than my family eats now and believe me, we've made some huge cut backs. I'm talking about the people who support the war but who neither want to pay a tax for it nor sign up and fight in the war. I oppose the war. I opposed the Iraq war. I will continue to oppose this war but the war has to be paid for and if that means a tax, so be it. There should have been a war tax when Bush launched the Iraq fiasco years ago. But there are many who don't want a war tax and support the war as long as they don't have to go to Afghanistan and join the fight. How many of these people would still support the war if the government brought back the draft?
08:14 PM on 12/02/2009
You might think that's what O was saying "spin down properly"...and then believe all those erroneous dates, but I don't buy.

The troops in Afghanistan are not holed up somewhere, trapped by enemy fire.
Send planes and ships and they can jump on 'em.

The Karzai drug dealing government ain't going anywhere...they'll wink, wink, nod, nod at him like all the dictators propped up in Latin America by troops trained in the US at the School of the Americas.

The defense contractors and military industrial complex have money plans until 2020.
And until you all get your heads out of the clouds about the false "moral authority" claims that our own corrupt government spews out with each and every administration...

These troops and the troops tomorrow will be sitting ducks, trapped canon fodder.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
weebils
I like jalapenos and hot sauce
05:17 PM on 12/02/2009
I am related to people in the military and have friends in the military too. They are actually glad the president is refocusing on Afghanistan. They know it will be tough and they would prefer not to have a war anytime. But they are trained and ready. This is actually the fight they have been preparing for since 2001.
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06:07 PM on 12/02/2009
My brother-in-law served for 25 years in the armed forces and my sister, his wife served for 8 years and they opposed the Iraq war and this war. The Iraq war was based on false intelligence and this war is based on some labyrinthine rationale as justification for having 100,000 troops in Afghanistan while supposedly (because its never been confirmed), some leaders of al-Qaeda are in Pakistan.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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05:03 PM on 12/02/2009
Just one more thing before I leave:

"One should avoid wars"

(The above quote is bby Aan extremely famous person whose name i don't remember.)
.

.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
kdublya
This season, say it with a haiku
05:10 PM on 12/02/2009
Incorrigible.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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05:14 PM on 12/02/2009
I just read your reply Hume. I guess we will continue this conversation later.

Peace Out cool dude.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Chernynkaya
05:02 PM on 12/02/2009
I've got to do some chores, but it doesn't feel right to leave before I say something in defense of my friend, HumeSkeptic. I don't know what went down here before I came (scrolled back several pages but didn't find anything), but I can tell you this: Hume is a great poster and a stand-up guy. He is as far from a tro// as one can get. I look to his posts for a unique and thoughtful take, even if I disagree. He uses facts and logic, and if he got out of line-- which I didn't see-- he is entitled, as we all are time to time. These are emotional and important issues. I h8 for my friends to fight!

See you guys later.
05:04 PM on 12/02/2009
Peace. Nice talking to you.
05:17 PM on 12/02/2009
I don't enjoy it when my friends fight either as it's a weight on my heart.

I disagree with you on the Skeptic subject (but it didn't stop me fanning you). I do appreciate the logic in many of his posts but I don't care for how he often addresses others (that doesn't stop me from loving him anyway).

Later
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
treeshack
04:54 PM on 12/02/2009
Yes sir, Mr. Obama. That's a fine little war you bought there. The mileage is kinda high and the engine tends to blow up pretty regularly, but you are now the proud owner of a 2002 Afghan Fiasco.

Congratulations....
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JackRusselTerrier
sniff out the truth and chew on facts
04:53 PM on 12/02/2009
Short video and petition.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/?utm_source=rgemail#petition
04:54 PM on 12/02/2009
I was just coming to post that! You beat me to it.
: )
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JackRusselTerrier
sniff out the truth and chew on facts
04:55 PM on 12/02/2009
Post it again later. ; )
05:00 PM on 12/02/2009
Right on.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
tisfilm
04:46 PM on 12/02/2009
If McCain win president or Palin whever...
I'm sure that they will stay war for 100 years..
Do you like that????
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Chernynkaya
04:42 PM on 12/02/2009
Gawd! Not only did that *&&^&*_!*&$# Bush get us into this mess, he destr0yed our trust in any leader!! Because of his l.i.e.s he destr0yed the credibility of future Presidents. I am not saying we shouldn't be skeptical-- AT ALL-- but jeez, he left such a foul taste in our mouths and p0lluted the entire governing process that we are not merely skeptical, we are bitterly cynical. Maybe a healthy dose of that is needed, but I see it as destructive overall. Thanks, you pieceOfChit! ~~~screaming~~
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
ADONAI
04:45 PM on 12/02/2009
indeed
04:46 PM on 12/02/2009
Bush and Cheney have much to answer for, but apparently they are somehow immune to actual reprimand.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Chernynkaya
04:51 PM on 12/02/2009
I want them punished. but i want health care reform, jobs, cap/trade, card check, WallSt. reform fist. I'lll wait, then remind.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
ADONAI
04:34 PM on 12/02/2009
War is the failure of government to provide for it's people

it is the failure of nations to do what is right.

It is not a necessary thing, a tool of liberation

or a means of defense.

it is the last bastion of the cowardly and corrupt.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
kdublya
This season, say it with a haiku
04:33 PM on 12/02/2009
ConservativeHippie

It feeds bitterness and k!lls any debate, man.
Posted 04:24 PM on 12/02/2009

Strictly, my interpretation. Quoting famous people stifles debate as well because it couples a strawman argument with a logical fallacy (appeal to authority.)

Ergo,

"Hunger is bad."

(I forgot which famous person said that)
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
kdublya
This season, say it with a haiku
04:43 PM on 12/02/2009
Why do I feel like I broke the magician's code...
04:45 PM on 12/02/2009
Fanned for being a codebreaker!!!
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05:44 PM on 12/02/2009
Actually when quotations by famous people are directly tied to the subject of the debate, in this case, war, they provide powerful information. Then again they may reference history or some major historical event and since history is off limits, particularly in the US, where Americans hate their history lessons, it is understandable that the use of quotations in a forum for debate would be viewed as "stifling debate" about war. History is replete with lessons about war and one of the lessons is that hundreds of millions have died for political causes and foreign policies, many of them innocent civilians. And today most people do not even know what those people were fighting for nor do they care.