Maureen Dowd: The Odd Couple Defending Gay Marriage In California

New York Times:

As the sun set on the Bay Bridge behind him and the curtain dropped on the first week of the dramatic trial to challenge the constitutionality of the state's ban on same-sex marriage, Olson reviewed the case: "We're going to explain why allowing same-sex couples to have that same right that the rest of us have is not going to hurt heterosexual marriages. It has no point at all except some people don't want to recognize gays and lesbians as normal, as human beings."

Read the whole story: New York Times

Comments

[RButler]

10:19 AM on 01/18/2010

A good solution would be for all marriages, gay and straight, to be civil unions in the eyes of the government. Churches or other houses of worship would perform gay 'marriages' or not depending upon their particular beliefs. If a churches performing gay marriages wanted to also call their civil unions marriage, they could. But, for legal and government related issues, the term would be civil unions only for everyone. Problem solved.

Marriage has undergone many changes over the centuries and for those who don't approve gay marriage, they have to let go of the notion that the current design of marriage in this country was not set in stone thousands of years ago. There was no 'no fault divorce' then nor community property and alimony as we know it. The notion of marriage being only for procreation should be thrown out since many married people don't have children or intend to. Plus, so many children are born out of wedlock, marriage doesn't doesn't support that notion. Marriage and procreation have become disconnected from each other.

[Kurtico]

12:23 PM on 01/18/2010

I agree with you if people want to get married and be legally bound to each other ( A completely stupid idea if you ask me, I am not the marrying type) then let them do it in a civil union. As a single tax payer, I do not want married couples getting any tax breaks or anything that single people do not get. Also, if they want to have kids , let them pay the school taxes and not all people...>>> single people don't have kids in school why should we pay? Oh, I have heard the argument that single people should pay cause the school system raises the property values for all people. LOL yeah, right, tell that to all the people in low income areas that have lousy property values but still pay out school taxes.

[RButler]

12:08 AM on 01/19/2010

I also agree with you about single people paying the same taxes as married people. However, although I am single without any children, and would prefer not to pay taxes for other people's children's education, I realize that someone helped pay for my schooling when I was a child. It's only fair that I do the same for the next generation.

I wish that our culture emphasized that people who have children be more responsible for the costs of raising their children and act appropriately. That might mean getting married, postponing having children till the parents were established financially and limiting the number of children to what they can afford. We seem to have it backwards in this country. People have kids first , then have to catch up when it comes to developing the resources required to raise them. Even birds, related to ancient dinosaurs, build next first before laying eggs and committing to raising their young. Sometimes, it seems like many people are like the cuckoo bird which lays it's eggs in another birds nest for the other to feed and take care of to the detriment of its own young.

[Kurtico]

10:50 PM on 01/17/2010

My love for all of you is overflowing, but I must go to sleepy bye now. I will see you all tomorrow.
Hugs, as you all say.

[Kurtico]

10:38 PM on 01/17/2010

You know I love you all, and I think gay marriage will become legal by a federal mandate,

[Kurtico]

10:37 PM on 01/17/2010

You know I love you all, and I think gay marriage will become legal by a federal amendment, but I don't think gays should be out there having a hissy fit kicking sand at people with their loafers. Tone it down, try to look honorable and respectable-that wins support. Running around bashing into churches and screaming "It's ok to be gay, its ok to be gay" and hanging an effigy of Sarah Palin does not endear the masses.

[StevenWells]

11:34 PM on 01/17/2010

Tone it down, indeed.

[proggirl]

09:24 PM on 01/17/2010

It's ironic this issue being discussed right before MLK Day, as King had serious problems coming to terms with gay rights. His ousting of Bayard Rustin from his organization was largely due to Rustin's being gay, according to a documentary shown on Logo.
I've no desire to slam Dr. King's noble work, but historical context is interesting.

[Kurtico]

09:27 PM on 01/17/2010

Listen my little bunny rabbit, this issue is discuss everyday of the year, it is just Martin Luther Kings bd that is once a year.

[Kurtico]

09:23 PM on 01/17/2010

Think of it like soup.
Most people like clam chowder, but some people like cream of chicken. Not all people like cream of chicken, but most people like clam chowder. Any company in the soup business would have to focus most of their effort to make more clam chowder to please the people that prefer that over cream of chicken. Sure, sure, they will focus some effort on the cream of chicken, but most will go to the biggest seller. Hence, gay marriage is a lot like ordering cream of chicken soup in a store that mostly specializes in clam chowder.

[oldgeek1]

06:52 PM on 01/17/2010

The core issue is caring about people and their right to live and be happy as Americans.

The so called "tea party" are a bunch of people frustrated by Government spending, tax's or whatever who expressed themselves with no where else to turn. The Tea Party is now being over taken by those who desire to use that frustration as a republican political tool.

Back on point, people who are gay as Americans should have the right to marry, raise children and face the joy and troubles that others do. Frankly Gays are being provided special protection by having problems getting married.

[Kurtico]

09:18 PM on 01/17/2010

Nice how you slam the Tea Party Americans and then go on to ask for fair treatment of Americans.Are you people for real?

[RButler]

06:44 PM on 01/17/2010

For those who don't think gay rights and gay marriage should be compared to civil rights for blacks, I want them to consider this. Of course they're not exactly alike but there is an extra dimension to the plight of gays and especially gays in the black community. How many blacks have been disowned or kicked out of their homes and condemned by their parents and families FOR BEING BLACK?



I think Wanda Sykes made a joke about that on her HBO special but I can't remember the details. But, it was very funny and made some excellent points.

[Peter Danbridge]

08:08 PM on 01/17/2010

As an African-American woman who is gay, Wanda said she thinks being gay is harder in that when you're a person of color, you know where you stand with people. When you're gay, you have to come out to the people you hold most dear, fearing rejection and abandonment.

I've had several experiences where I've met someone and all was going well, then the person indirectly discovered I am gay and they simply stopped interacting with me.

We live each day knowing that at any given moment someone in our life, whether that be a coworker of a friend of a friend, might just suddenly disregard us based on our orientation.

Being able to hide who you are to avoid being discriminated against is not necessarily a good thing. It can be a very stressful, oppressive way to experience daily life.

[RButler]

08:35 PM on 01/17/2010

Thank you for you're reply from someone who has only had half the problem you had. I went through a difficult period with my folks that actually came out well eventually. But, it wasn't easy.

When I was in high school in the early 60s, no one came out that I knew of and I would have rather died than do it and I didn't. It took another decade. Many friends were fine with it and we really didn't discuss much but I sure was surprised. When I told a friend back in the 70s (she was famous among our group for keeping confidences) that I was gay and my first real experience was with a black guy I went to college with, she said 'Boy, you jumped 2 fences at the same time'. She was great.

I love Wanda and her tremendous ability to deal with both issues publicly, humorously and in a way that it endearing. Even though she can be wickedly funny, she's almost childlike at times in an innocent way.

[guytaur1]

06:13 PM on 01/17/2010

Kurtico

It appears you did not read the article. It appears you do not see the logic of the argument of these two experienced and pre eminent trial lawyers. Two whom are experts in Constitutional Law.
It appears that your hate of gays runs so deep that rational thought escapes you.

[sounder55]

05:54 PM on 01/17/2010

I am a tea-partier. I know many, like me, that are not of the Religious variety. I want all you crazy Progg's to know that many like me are against any effort by Government to limit who can marry who. We all as individuals must have the liberty to pursue those things that make us happy. Most of us are not Bible thumpers. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[Phreaked]

06:22 PM on 01/17/2010

I would agree that the ORIGINAL tea party people were not the bible thumpers but once they got taken over by groups like freedomworks and became an extension of the conservative movement 99% of the people you saw at the rallies, especially the more "vocal", ones are

[StevenWells]

07:03 PM on 01/17/2010

"...many, like me, that are not of the Religious variety...are against any effort by Government to limit who can marry who...individuals must have the liberty to pursue those things that make us happy."

That's all good, and I'm glad to hear it. In fact, from those ideas and principles excerpted above, you sound very much like one of we "crazy Progg's."

Regardless of how you label yourself, welcome aboard.

[Kurtico]

05:45 PM on 01/17/2010

Clearly, we are not going to agree on the correct "tactics" to promote equality and gay marriage across teh country. Maybe this CA Supreme Court case will make gay marriage legal by federal mandate, at least I hope so. However, it would serve the protesting gay groups well to look at the recent decisions in different states such as NJ, NY, and ME to get a temperature as to how their efforts are working. So far, gay marriage last been lost in almost every state where it went up on the ballet. Game change? Anybody??

[mag68]

06:02 PM on 01/17/2010

You are so tiresome, go hate yourself somewhere else for a while.

[Peter Danbridge]

08:10 PM on 01/17/2010

I've got a game change.

How about people take ownership of their bigotry and just let people live their lives?

I resent being put in the position to enlighten other people who refuse to cure their own willful ignorance.

[Kurtico]

10:28 PM on 01/17/2010

LOL, Nobody wants you to push your agenda in their face and call it "enlightening"
Just go get married in MA or CT and leave straight people alone. Gosh!

[Kurtico]

05:27 PM on 01/17/2010

I happen to know many gays that wish the far left radical gays would "knock it off" and acting a fool by bursting into Catholic Churches or other churches, parading in bizarre outfits, and etc. These are regular everyday people that think this way from all walks of life and professions. In fact, the far left wing zealots represent a very small percentage of gays out there but they are the most vocal. What ever happened to the theory "You can more flies with sugar than vinegar?"

[525600Minutes]

05:30 PM on 01/17/2010

Ohhhhhhhhhh Wilbuuuuuuuuuur!

[525600Minutes]

05:32 PM on 01/17/2010

Would these be the same "Catholic Churches" that paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in sexual abuse law suits?

[Kurtico]

05:16 PM on 01/17/2010

For a "straight" person, you certainly seem to think you know all about us "gays" and our relationships. Too bad you are so ill informed.

I'm sure you have links to prove your comment of; "True, many of those marriages do break up, but many people think it is better to fix that problem than go further down the path of destruction with Gay marriage."

Boy that's a new one for me to have heard.

*** That was a "new one" for you? Really? For a gay person, you seem to express that you know all about Straight people and our relationships. Your logic is flawed.

[525600Minutes]

05:19 PM on 01/17/2010

really? Where did I once lay claim to knowing about straight people and their relationships for my logic to be flawed. How many gay relationships have you even been around to justify your flawed analogy? I've been around many straight relationships from the various ones in my immediate family. At least I've got experience behind me, what's your excuse?

[Kurtico]

05:33 PM on 01/17/2010

You have "Jumped the Shark" in your logic. Just by virtue of you blogging here about what "straight" people think about gays proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. I cannot respond to you anymore if you will not see your part in a discussion.

[YoMama]

05:36 PM on 01/17/2010

Needing some gay attention tonight?

[525600Minutes]

05:42 PM on 01/17/2010

{{fanned & faved}}

[Kurtico]

04:58 PM on 01/17/2010

If gays continue to act as if they are on the "outside" looking in then it will take many years for 100% inclusion. People must act as if they are in the "inside" and adapt their behaviors and mores to that culture. Otherwise people ask "Why do they want to be part of us when they do not like us?"

[525600Minutes]

05:14 PM on 01/17/2010

Boy you would have been a riot speaking out on civil rights issues of African Americans in the 60's. I wonder how far your same analogies would have gotten you at that point in time.

[Peter Danbridge]

05:24 PM on 01/17/2010

Until I was 26, I adapted to the behaviors and mores of our culture by remaining in the closet and using and manipulating good women who didn't deserve me manipulating them and using them as a tool to win society's approval.

I am a more moral person now, at 41, refusing to adopt to those societal mores that would deny me my personal authenticity and demand that I continue to protect myself at someone else's expense, than I was as a closeted gay man.

Having said that, and doing the right thing to do, the socially responsible thing to do, I am not going to go back to trying to win the approval of people who don't wish to educate themselves.

Our allies are legion. We are aware there are also scores of people who will simply NEVER accept us, even when science once and for all proves that homosexuality is not "a lifestyle choice." We realize we are never going to win some people over. So, we seek our civil equality in the courts.

[Kurtico]

05:29 PM on 01/17/2010

Peter using people, whether you are gay or straight,is not right. Many gays do adapt to society, but they do not think they have to get married or date women to do it. I think your perception of being gay is very different than mainstream American gays.

[patsydecline]

04:46 PM on 01/17/2010

!!!!!!!!
as a mass voter now i'm receiving calls this weekend from this 'lovely ' organization
National Organization for Marriage
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/c.omL2KeN0LzH/b.3836955/k.BEC6/Home.htm
when i didn't answer their, survey came back with terse remarks...
then when i called the number on caller id to tell them to stop calling,
the org they hired to make the calls, have the number always ring busy...
i suggest anyone in mass or elsewhere ring the headquarters and tell them to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!