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Tishman Speyer Walked Away From Its Stuyvesant Town, Peter Cooper Village Mortgage. Why Can't You?

RACHEL BECK   01/30/10 12:00 AM ET   AP

Stuyvesant Town

NEW YORK — Tishman Speyer Properties walks away from 11,232 Manhattan apartments because it can't pay its mortgage. That's good business.

Rick Gilson, a college custodial supervisor in South Dakota, wants to walk away from the mortgage on his mobile home. If he does, he'll be a deadbeat.

Those two borrowers face the same financial dilemma: Their mortgages far exceed the values of their properties. Yet one gets to walk away without guilt, while the other can't.

Gilson is too scared to dump the mortgage on his mobile home. He owes $31,973, but the home is only worth about $14,000.

"I have 12 years of money put into this property that I will never get out," said the 50-year-old Gilson, from Rapid City, S.D. "But I am still paying because this is what I have been told to do. That's what I think is right."

Until now, the focus of the real estate crisis has been on individuals. One in four U.S. homeowners, or nearly 11 million Americans, are underwater on their mortgages. In some parts of the country – Florida, Nevada, Michigan, California and Arizona – the share tops 40 percent.

Some experts say it makes sense for some people to walk away if they're deeply underwater, even if doing so could wreck their credit score for seven years. It may not be worth it to keep paying a mortgage when they can find comparable rental housing for considerably less money.

The argument against walkaways is that they will wreak economic havoc if a lot of people do it. Banks will have more bad loans on their books. They'll make fewer loans. Home prices will plunge more.

The rules are different, though, for the walkaway of all walkaways.

That title is reserved for what happened to one of New York's trophy properties, the 56-building Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village complex. Spanning 80 acres on Manhattan's east side, it's the largest single-owned residential area in the city. Its red brick buildings, built by Metropolitan Life in the 1940s for World War II veterans, are still a haven for the city's middle class.

Commercial real-estate firm Tishman and its partner, investment firm BlackRock, paid $5.4 billion to buy the property from MetLife in late 2006 – right at the market's peak. They hoped to make money by converting rent-regulated apartments into luxury condos and raising rents.

Then the housing crash hit. The value now: $1.8 billion.

And you thought you overpaid for your house.

"They made assumptions that things would grow to the moon, and things certainly did not," said Len Blum, a managing partner at investment bank Westwood Capital.

Tishman said last week that it was turning the property back over to creditors to avoid filing for bankruptcy protection. In recent weeks, Tishman failed to restructure $4.4 billion in debt, and couldn't find another buyer, according to a statement from the company.

Tishman exits the deal with a ding to its reputation, but it will be fine. It still has Rockefeller Center and the Chrysler Center in New York, and dozens of properties in cities worldwide. The company has about $33 billion in assets.

Residential homeowners wouldn't get off so easy.

For most underwater homeowners, the thought of walking away from their commitment is impossible to fathom. After all, it's part of the culture. Pay your bills. Uphold contracts.

University of Arizona law professor Brent White, who has written about mortgage walkaways, says societal pressures often trump what's actually legal. He thinks individual borrowers believe they are obliged to repay their loans even when it isn't in their financial interest.

"The problem is that we have a structure whereby corporations can walk away with impunity but individuals can't," White said.

Gilson reads what's happening 1,700 miles away in Manhattan and gets angry.

His mobile home started depreciating the minute he moved in 12 years ago, much as a car loses value as soon as you drive it out of the dealer's lot.

Three years ago, he bought a new home that he lives in with his wife. Since he can't sell the mobile home for anything near what he paid for it, he rents it out in order to make the $300.36 mortgage payment every month.

"I get so stressed over this," Gilson said. "It's like the elephant in the room and there is nothing you can do about it."

Gilson is frustrated that real-estate tycoons can default on a $4.4 billion mortgage, but he's not supposed to do the same on his $31,000 loan.

How can you blame him?

___

Rachel Beck is the national business columnist for The Associated Press. Write to her at rbeck(at)ap.org

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NEW YORK — Tishman Speyer Properties walks away from 11,232 Manhattan apartments because it can't pay its mortgage. That's good business. Rick Gilson, a college custodial supervisor in South Da...
NEW YORK — Tishman Speyer Properties walks away from 11,232 Manhattan apartments because it can't pay its mortgage. That's good business. Rick Gilson, a college custodial supervisor in South Da...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
deepfreezevideo
Now with even MORE microbial micro-bio!
12:13 AM on 02/03/2010
Any system that does not value and enforce the moral credibility of both parties is illegitimate.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Siebenstein
both parties are worthless
02:12 AM on 02/02/2010
Why Can't You?

Well, we can !

And we do !
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porsche996
an inelastic scattering of photons
05:47 PM on 02/01/2010
A recent visit to Southern California found thousands of American citizens living in cars in the warm weather city of Long Beach.

Journalists speculate that this happening all over the USA, these "Economic Refugees" are multiplying but the MSM has done zero stories about them or us....

Here's one from a local paper detailing some actions proposed by the Long Beach City Council this past summer....wonder how these people are doing now???

http://www.presstelegram.com/search/ci_13207869?IADID=Search-www.presstelegram.com-www.presstelegram.com
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02:24 PM on 02/01/2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/26/goldman-sachs-approached_n_437041.html?page=6&show_comment_id=38864528#comment_38864528

speyer's partner blackrock was selected by geithner to manage TARP funds and was knee deep in goldman sachs manipulation of aig to siphon off billions of our tax payer dollars for its record profits and bonuses.

blackrock was founded by larry FINK the same guy who who pioneered the mortgage-backed securities market, i.e. what caused our financial crisis int he first place?

these guys are a den of thieves and Financial Terrori$T$.

we are being robbed blind in broad daylight.
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porsche996
an inelastic scattering of photons
06:17 PM on 02/01/2010
Over and over again they're going to the well....
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02:12 PM on 02/01/2010
therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/will-tishman-speyer-buckle

"As for the Archstone deal, both Lehman and Tishman Speyer have written down at least 25 percent of their investment, sources told The Real Deal. Those losses, according to the New York Times, "helped to bring down" Lehman, which filed for bankruptcy in September."

"The firm put up less than $112 million of its own capital on the Stuyvesant Town deal, and about $250 million on Archstone (1 percent of the total investment, for which it will receive 13 percent of the profits)"

"Tishman president Jerry Speyer has built his company into one of the city's most respected. He has cultivated ties with top city and national politicians. He has flown in business delegations with U.S. presidents, and has also served as chairman of the New York Federal Reserve. "

it's amazing how one garners respect in America.

madoff was the chair of the nasdaq, speyer was the chair of the ny fed!

both mercilessly shafted millions of American citizens in the most creative ways such as cratering lehman or casting ST-PCV residents into the streets while never put up more than 1% of their own money in these deals, earning at least 13% of the profits, Millions in management fees, and walking away leaving Fannie and Freddi, aka US Taxpayers, holding their dirty bag.

these guys are not American citizens, they are country less, pan national, citizens of their own world, literally they own their world.

Financial Terrori$T$
02:07 PM on 02/01/2010
"Them that's got shall get, them that don't shall lose. So the Bible says, and it's still news."
- Billie Holiday
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
patches12
02:05 PM on 02/01/2010
YOU CAN WALK AWAY!! WHO SAYS YOU CAN'T.. MILLIONS HAVE ALREADY.

WE ALL NEED TO WALK AWAY FROM OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND OBLIGATIONS if he rich can do it and get bailed out, WHY CAN'T WE DO IT TOO?.
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FoonTheElder
Always choosing between the lesser of two evils
11:47 AM on 02/01/2010
You can walk away too, but check out your state laws. Unless you plan on declaring bankruptcy, many state laws allow the mortgage company to come after you for any deficiency between what they sell it for and what you owed.
janereally
My micro bio is empty.
01:42 PM on 02/01/2010
No, Obama administration put a hold on this practice.
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Bluemax1
As thoughts manifest your Universe is created.
11:20 PM on 02/01/2010
I agree check your state in regards to bankruptcy and seek a
free consultation from an attorney. As far as deficiency it is
rarely done and they will not spend the money to sue you if
you have nothing.
10:59 AM on 02/01/2010
Buy high...sell low.
http://yieldpig.blogspot.com/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
blueken
Finger Picking blues man
10:54 AM on 02/01/2010
There is a huge difference here, one is a person the other a corporation. Corporations are not people. Hey, wait minute. They have the right to free speech! Ok, the person is struggling to make ends meet and trying to cut thier losses on the biggest investment of thier lives. The corporation is makeing money. See the dfference. A corporation can't feel shame.
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Aldyth
Advocating for those who cannot defend themselves.
11:25 AM on 02/01/2010
Interesting that corporations have been invested with the rights the Founding Fathers intended to be held by human beings. Of course, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and the other great minds behind the Constitution never envisioned what corporations were capable of becoming.

it is time to take our country back.

Which would be easier to do if the corporations didn't own it.
03:05 PM on 02/01/2010
oh yes they did, one of the major reasons for the revelution was the corperations.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/history_corporations_us.html
10:09 AM on 02/01/2010
Why is it so easy for Businesses to file for bankruptcy again and again, while changes in bankruptcy laws where changed at the urging of corporations to make it more difficult, if not impossible, for individuals to file for bankruptcy?
10:47 AM on 02/01/2010
Maybe because laws don't apply to those who write them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
vippy
Carpe Diem!
03:19 PM on 02/01/2010
Hillary Clinton voted for this bankruptcy law, yet I wonder did she ever pay back the 20 million she owed at the end of her campaign, I doubt it. They usually stiff the little people!
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09:51 AM on 02/01/2010
Over the past few weeks I've read many articles supporting the idea of walking away. But I haven't seen any mention about the deficiency lawsuits. If the bank forecloses on hundreds of thousand of "strategic defaults" (that is, people who could pay but choose not to), why isn't the bank suing for the difference between the mortgage amount and the sale amount? I can understand the banks not suing those who have no income or other assets; but, are the banks really not attempting to collect on the debt from those it deems capable of paying?

The article above about Tishman walking away and sticking it to the lender for 4 billion dollars is a perfect example of what should not be happening. Tishman has 33 billion dollars in other assets; I would think the lender would be willing to sue for the deficiency.

In most states, deficiency laws allow the lender to pursue deficiency trials several years after the foreclosure took place. I would imagine that lenders will pursue former home owners that have an income; and will pursue those who don't have an income now at a later time when they will have an income.

So, by simply walking away, not only does one loose the house and all the money invested in it so far, but there is a good chance that individiual will have to pay thousands of dollars later on.
kdp59
small business owner
10:04 AM on 02/01/2010
you are correct , which is why anyone should contact a real estate Lawyer in their state before doing anything.

here is a list of States where they cannot sue you for any difference, typically:

Anti-Deficiency / Non-Recourse States

Alaska

Arizona

California

Connecticut

Florida

Idaho

Minnesota

North Carolina

North Dakota

Texas

Utah

Washington



One Action States

In some states, lenders are only permitted a single lawsuit to collect mortgage debt. This plays out differently depending on the state’s laws. In New York, for example, a lender must choose between the actions of foreclosing on the property or suing to collect the debt. The following states have some type of one action statute:

California

Idaho

Montana

Nevada

New York

Utah
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02:03 PM on 02/01/2010
i guess you should get a lawyer especially since california, idaho, and utah are in both of your lists.
09:36 AM on 02/01/2010
Try returning that useless college degree to the bank when your job gets outsourced and see what happens.

In the student loan racket, private corporations make money off of zero-risk gov't-guaranteed loans with payments enforced by the IRS. Like the crimes of murder and rape, there's no statute of limitations on student loans and student loan debts are almost never, ever discharged. Even if you become paralyzed from the neck down, your social security disability checks will be docked for the rest of your life. (And we have no universal health care either. Nice.)

In the old days, indentured servants were guaranteed a passage to a better life, a job, room and board. Today's indentured servants (those forced to pay a for-profit college on their own) have no guarantee of a better life, nor of a job and certainly not room and board. You don't even have legal protection from outsourcing, bankruptcy or illness.
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09:03 AM on 02/01/2010
I'm a lawyer who does mortgage foreclosure defense work in South Florida, and one of the issues that those who tell people to just walk away seem to forget is the human factor. Meaning, someone's home is also their life. They have neighbohood friends to which they have personal attachment; if they move, their kids have to be uprooted from school; most chose their homes because of the location to work, other family members, church, etc.

Walking away from their homes is also walking away from a life that they've created for themselves. It isn't JUST a business decision. It is a life decision. Businesses don't have a personal attachment to worry about.
09:26 AM on 02/01/2010
True, and bless you for your work, but it's beyond the scope of the article: capitalism for individuals, socialism for corporations.
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Henk
I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians..
09:36 AM on 02/01/2010
"Businesses don't have a personal attachment to worry about."

This is exactly it, workers who have been with the company for 30 years? Dump 'em, its business. Pension fund, funded from employee payroll deductions? Take the money, file for chapter 11, its just business. Neighborhoods and town that have grown up around businesses, generations of employees, tax breaks given, adios amigos, its just business.

NO NO NO, Businesses do not have personal attachments and that Sir is the problem.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
maybealittlecommonsense
kick it root down
08:59 AM on 02/01/2010
This is a really lousy comparison. First off anyone can tell you that a mobile home never appreciates. Even in a good market. Secondly this guy's payments are probably cheaper than renting an apartment.

A much better example would have been a person that bought a house in the last 5 years that has depreciated 50%.
09:24 AM on 02/01/2010
I am a California homeowner who bought at the height of the market and am now close to 50% underwater. I would not walk away. It makes NO economic sense, and I am mystified why people think this is a good strategy. 1) It ruins your credit rating. If you think 5 to 15 years of a bad credit rating is a picnic, think again. Any credit problem is hard to erase, i.e., you don't magically emerge, like a business, whose bankruptcy rules are distinct from those for individuals. 2) Underwater shmunderwater. Housing values have plunged, but the market has plunged before, and it has corrected. I may be underwater 50% today, but presuming I can hang on, the market will recover, even if it takes 10 or more years. The important thing is to hang on. I would much rather have a home at the end of this very bleak time than be dependent on some avaricious landlord.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
maybealittlecommonsense
kick it root down
10:01 AM on 02/01/2010
If you're living totally on credit, maybe it's time to change your lifestyle. The only real things you should finance are; a house, education, or invest in a business. Everything else you should not buy unless you can buy with cash. Use Credit cards for convenience or an emergency. Never, ever, ever carry a balance.

Go try to borrow money right now. I have 2 houses. One is about break even and the other is $100,000 underwater. No one will borrow me money now for a car or my business. My credit rating is like 900. So what would I be giving up by walking away from the house that is underwater?

There also is the short sale option. You tell the bank you can't afford the house anymore. Maybe you lost your job, or you have a variable rate mortgage that is going up and the same bank that made you the original loan, now won't refinance you. You work a deal with the bank where you sell the house for less than what is owed, and the bank accepts that as full payment. it's only on your credit rating for 2 years.
10:03 AM on 02/01/2010
Do you know what they call folks like you in Michigan? We call'em nit-wits!