Abdulmutallab Investigation Makes The Case For Lawful Interrogation Instead Of Torture

Last week, I was puzzled to read Marc Thiessen make the claim that the Obama administration was getting too good at eliminating terrorists with drone strikes, and that this was putting the country at risk because it was, per Thiessen, draining the available pool of terrorist operatives that we could capture and torture. It was a strange thing to say, considering the fact that even as he wrote those words, the FBI was carrying out a highly effective investigation into Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's connections to al Qaeda. And if you want to get a a picture of just how effective it is, check out Eli Lake's piece in this morning's Washington Times.

U.S. and allied counterterrorism authorities have launched a global manhunt for English-speaking terrorists trained in Yemen who are planning attacks on the United States, based on intelligence provided by the suspect in the attempted Christmas Day bombing after he began cooperating.

U.S. officials told The Washington Times that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, facing charges as a would-be suicide bomber, revealed during recent cooperation with the FBI that he met with other English speakers at a terrorist training camp in Yemen. Three U.S. intelligence officials, including one senior official, disclosed on the condition of anonymity some details of the additional bomb plots.

I think the Pete Hoekstras and Susan Collinses of the world had hoped that the Abdulmutallab case would go a long way toward demonstrating the shortcomings of law enforcement agencies, the rule of law, and constitutional constraints in the war on terror. As it turns out, it's quite the opposite: the law enforcement approach proves to be fleet, actionable, and effective. Says Lake: "The White House has defended the decision to treat Mr. Abdulmutallab as a criminal on the grounds that the suspect's family has coaxed him into cooperating, something that likely would not have occurred had he not been afforded access to counsel."

RELATED:
U.S. hunts for English-speaking bombers [Washington Times]
What We Wouldn't Have Learned By Torturing Him [Attackerman]

PREVIOUSLY, on the HUFFINGTON POST:
Marc Thiessen Suggests That Killing Terrorists Poses A National Security Risk
Public Support For Obama's Counter-Terror Policies On The Rise

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Comments

[RiceStarz]

06:49 PM on 02/16/2010

I beg to differ. T0rtu.re was used in this case. Prez has tort. ured the opposition by effectively doing what they failed to do in 2 unpaid for wa@s and their so called w@R on T@RR@R. Taking outenemies and getting solid information, all without the failed methods of the last admin. Prez wants to end this, and they want to keep profiting from it.

[Erzsebet Gilbert]

01:30 PM on 02/16/2010

Apart from my repulsion at those who somehow manage to rationalize the torture of other human beings, for whatever purported cause - with dubious "success", as is proven again and again) - I'd also like to note that the highly touted "effectiveness of drone attacks" incorporates an increasing number of "efficiently" killed civilians. These innocent lives are destroyed through America's actions, and left to fall out of memory in the name of our own safety. Fewer terrorists to torture in an illegal prison, but more and more people tortured by the loss of loved ones and of themselves.

[newjerseybadger]

11:50 AM on 02/17/2010

Until the day that we no longer need make war against those who would blow up trains, fly airplanes into buildings, and put bombs on aircraft (all filled with innocents just as much as those who we kill when we drop drone-fired missiles on them)... there will be innocents killed on both sides of the war. "War is hell" is not just a pretty poetic phrase.

But the alternative to killing innocents on that side of the line... is vastly increased death of innocents on _this_ side of the line. I can understand that you find all death of innocents repugnant. But don't forget that it takes two to make peace, and only one to make war.

[Erzsebet Gilbert]

12:25 PM on 02/17/2010

But try telling a civilian "I find the deaths of all innocents repugnant... but the death of innocents in my country is far worse than the death of your wife, husband, child, parent, teacher, friend, you....."

[DemocraticStraits]

01:30 PM on 02/16/2010

I'll make all you guys a deal.

I'll submit to being waterboarded if you'll get rid of unconstitutional government programs and legislation. I'd rather be tortured than watch the country and its freedoms go up in smoke based on liberal ignorance of the Constitution and the founding of the country.

[newjerseybadger]

11:52 AM on 02/17/2010

It'd be nice if it was that easy to fix, wouldn't it? Sign me up for that, too. (Why do you think it's only "Liberals" who ignore the Constitution?)

[DemocraticStraits]

12:36 PM on 02/17/2010

I don't. I just think Democrats are far more blatant. Republicans often at least seek amendments and fail. And Republicans *largely* are guilty of tepid or politically motivated support for breaking the Constitution. Except for when it comes to giveaways to farmers and the military, in which case they love it.

But there are also a lot of Republicans that would become super conservative with respect to the Constitution if Democrats would start fighting to preserve it, for things like people who want to get high in the privacy of their own homes. And I don't do drugs, but I believe people should have the right to do it if they want and aren't robbing people. Our war against drugs is destroying Mexico and much of Latin America. And it's mostly illegal.

Lincoln was actually the first president to really snap the Constitution in two. He had an entirely incorrect view of the Constitution and what it meant. Now, when Jefferson took office, he said, to paraphrase "hey, any of the states that don't like me and want to secede, feel free" A completely different attitude than "we own you and we'll keep you if we have to kill over half a million people to do it". Lincoln was a totalitarian who took away states' rights and freedoms and also threw people in jail. He was actually VERY much like Bush. Except that he freed far fewer people, killed far more Americans and violated the Constitution far more freely.

[ReedYoung]

03:27 PM on 02/17/2010

You're on!

Just remember that "promote the general welfare" and "provide for the national defense" are both clauses of the same sentence, so the first step when we "get rid of unconstitutional government programs and legislation" will be to prohibit private contractors from ever working for the military, law enforcement or espionage in any capacity, and we will still provide a public health care option, possibly even single payer medical care, to everybody in the United States, funded 100% by a millionaires tax.

[k6007]

01:26 PM on 02/16/2010

I guess those learned, visonary founding fathers, even then, knew more about how to handle justice than the repub crew of the bush adm.

Trying to turn gitmo into a concentrationcamp in the name of the american people. Subversivebastards!

[pecosdog]

11:13 AM on 02/16/2010

dick cheney: "To Mirandize a terrorist, shkkkkkkk (mouth breath) is to invite more terrorism, shhkkkkkkk. Obama, shkkkkkkkk, is aiding, shhkkkkkkk, terrorists.

[k6007]

01:27 PM on 02/16/2010

lmao! fanned!

[dems08]

09:55 AM on 02/16/2010

"Undie Bomber Investigation Makes Case For Lawful Interrogation Instead Of Torture"

also...

"Illegality of Torture Makes Case For Lawful Interrogation Instead Of Torture"

[spandautoseattle]

10:02 PM on 02/15/2010

After thousands of years of barbarism someone comes to the conclusion that torture does not provide reliable information? Again?
How many "interrogated" detainees were send home as proven innocent? What year do we write? 1410?

[lastcallmd]

12:22 AM on 02/16/2010

Interesting to hear liberals touting the benefits of the FBI. Situational priniciples?

[Bozwellian]

01:05 AM on 02/16/2010

..MORE interesting is the HIGH HYPOCRISY being blatantly spouted and touted in favopr of TORTURE ads a means to an end that would somehow serve our nation best no matter it goes against basic principles which we all thought were embraced and treasured and those that upheld those principles the TRUE PATRIOTS rather than the gibberishings of the GOP and their assorted consorts braying in the wind and calling FOR torture and too afraid to let the world see our system of justice upheld !!!

[spandautoseattle]

03:35 AM on 02/16/2010

How about talking about the benefits of having a justice system that does not allow a ruler to break national and international laws? And what happens when executive power knows no boundary?
Instead of political labeling you might want to read up on the bloody history of feudalism and absolutism, the age of the authoritarian regimes of the 20th century and how WE do not want to be like these societies who for many decades returned into the dark ages. You do live on THIS planet, I assume.

[spacecreep]

08:50 PM on 02/15/2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU2fAnOWjqY........ president obama once stated that "we are the change that we have been waiting for"........................

[CPAwADD]

11:33 PM on 02/15/2010

and we are the people you're parents warned you about! Jimmy Buffett

[Erzsebet Gilbert]

01:25 PM on 02/16/2010

I blew out my flip-flop & stepped on a pop-top! :-)

[VikingQuest]

08:26 PM on 02/15/2010

You know what, I would say that every situation is a little bit different . . . You can't toss a cookie cutter plan together and expect each situation to be the same.

I mean I don't expect this to be the same for a little kid that was brainwashed vs a hardened terrorist.

Look at what we had in this kid, parents and famly members willing to help the Government pressure the kid to give up info . . . how many times do you think we'll get that opportunity.

"The U.S. officials later traveled to Nigeria's capital city, Abuja, and eventually gained the trust of two unidentified relatives of the suspect.

On January 17, the FBI agents secretly flew back to the U.S. with the two relatives in order to work with the suspect.

One senior Obama administration official said the family members privately conveyed to the suspect they "had complete trust in the U.S. system."

[Gidster]

09:53 AM on 02/16/2010

True, some interrogations take time and much effort.

However torture is not, and never was a way to get real intelligence. That has been known for decades!

[DemocraticStraits]

08:16 PM on 02/15/2010

Another way of headlining this -

"Obama falls Bush era procedures and gains valuable intel"

[DemocraticStraits]

09:47 PM on 02/15/2010

"follows"

[Gidster]

09:55 AM on 02/16/2010

Yet the Repubs are shrieking that somehow this is different that Richard Reid, and that he should have been tortured for this information......

[Gover]

01:54 AM on 02/16/2010

Except the Bush era procedure was to drown him until he had finally accepted his own death and then bring him back from the brink over and over and over and over until his mind shattered and he started making up s*** up so they could give a bunch of bogus intel to people to waste their time on.

So, actually, no, that's not really a good way of headlining this at all.

[guntotinganglion]

02:20 AM on 02/16/2010

I don't think the Bushists were even vaguely interested in intel. They simply wanted to hurt someone, and weren't particularly choosy in picking one to torture. Sadists, that's really all they are.

This motif continues with the scurrilous accusations of reading Miranda rights being a sign of weakness. Just about every GOP talking head in DC has expounded on what a waste of time Miranda rights are. What they are saying is, Miranda rights should never have been allowed to begin with. It's kind of in the spirit of Trent Lott commenting on how much better we all would have been had Strom Thurmond become President...on a white supremacy ticket.

Playing the Miranda rights con is just their way of saying that law enforcement is for girly men, not real men! Real men don't need no stinking liberals laws, just a kick butt attitude and natural tendency to want to torment small animals, and anyone else they can get under their control.

[DemocraticStraits]

10:13 AM on 02/16/2010

Only in 3 out of hundreds or thousands of cases. And not with people that were cooperative.

IOW, Obama handled it the same way it would be done under Bush. What's the news?

[jeanwny]

07:45 PM on 02/15/2010

Can someone pick up the phone, call the former VP and explain this to him in words he can understand.

[arrgh]

08:33 PM on 02/15/2010

He'd just stick his fingers in his ears and hum loudly. And off-key.

[ReedYoung]

04:27 PM on 02/17/2010

"Mr. Cheney, you're under citizen's arrest for high treason."

You got his phone # ?

[realpolitic]

05:43 PM on 02/17/2010

Hey Reed, Fumes is bragging to me about his physics formula again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/17/san-franciscos-characteri_n_465579.html?show_comment_id=40397213#comment_40397213

[zakon]

07:38 PM on 02/15/2010

The PROP-A-GAN-DA is coming fast and furious in order to slip KSM into Dick Cheney's cover up 'military' system: Christmas T3rror Event, CIA saying a new a-t-t-a-c-k could happen within 6 months, Obama insincerely picking NYC instead of in a non-controversial federal criminal court, English-speaking t3rrorists, etc.

KSM is at the heart of the 9-1-1 plot and circumstances--he's a big fish. His civilian criminal trial would confirm an already open-secret: US involvement in 9-1-1. An inevitable push into a cover-up system created in 2006 is a bi-partisan effort.

For instance, they never want Ali Mohamed to take the stand (he is in US ghost custody). He was a radical Egyptian commando who worked out of Ft. Bragg for the Pentagon's Special Forces, was an FBI informant, and CIA asset...

...AND OBL's chief of security, escorted Al-Zawahiri in the US on 'fund raising' trips in the 90's, trained the WTC 93 cell, and took the photo surveillance of the African Embassies. To the 9-1-1 Commission's discredit, this SMOKING-GUN link was not published. (Source: Triple Cross, Harpers Collins, Peter Lance).

Corrupt governments never allow real court cases to proceed that would fundamentally discredit themselves.

THE DAY THEY DECLARE DICK CHENEY'S 'MILITARY' TRIBUNAL FOR KSM, IS THE DAY I AM SILENT ON POLITICS. THE REPUBLIC WILL BE PROVEN D-E-A-D. bye bye miss american pie.

[DemocraticStraits]

09:47 PM on 02/15/2010

Oh good god, break out the tin foil hats.

[newjerseybadger]

11:56 AM on 02/17/2010

Seconded.

[zakon]

10:00 PM on 02/15/2010

Read the source material before making ad homenium attacks dear citizen

[hagagaga]

11:23 PM on 02/15/2010

We did. It's a load of crap.

[zakon]

09:58 PM on 02/16/2010

In what regard? Be specific, about Ali Mohamed.

[Sue-in-Jersey]

06:46 PM on 02/15/2010

Funny how so many pro-torture posts cannot help but insert the old, "they deserve it" coda. You Rambos can't even maintain the illusion that torture is 'sadly necessary' to prevent future attack. Nope, always gotta give away the ugly truth that you lust for VENGEANCE not intelligence. Payback, not national security. It's pathetic, really.

[Nonpartay]

07:27 PM on 02/15/2010

Exactly. It's pathetic and true all at the same time. They have to know that torture doesn't get us anything but vengence. It doesn't get us good intelligence, it doesn't get us a good reputation, it makes us dishonorable because we go against agreements we signed in order to do it, and it is morally reprehensible, breaking a fundamental religious law common to all religions: The Golden Rule. This from a perspective that claims to be on the right side of God. I don't think so!

Fanned, btw.

[Gidster]

10:02 AM on 02/16/2010

Agreed.

It is also against US law.

The zealotry for torture, or for furthering the war against Muslims is identical to the rhetoric Al Qaeda uses to recruit suicide bombers.

We have become that which we fear.....

[Bozwellian]

01:11 AM on 02/16/2010

The assine absurdity that such sorties even dare to declare themselves THE TRUE PATRIOTS out to safe guard this nation is long beyond the pale of the atrocities they attempt to encourage and lust for with ingrained / innate vengence and NOT to be tolerated !! THEY ARE MAKING OUR SAFETY A SCAPEGOAT for their partisan hackery and flackery that keep flying as they continuously fling such assinine repulsive, destructive and egregious opines !!!

[DemocraticStraits]

06:29 PM on 02/15/2010

Liberals are so uninformed.

Waterboarding was always the method of last resort. If people will talk willingly, there's no reason. But waterboarding isn't real torture, which not only harms you, but often permanently. It just scares your body on such a profound level that you will cooperate. Hell, I'd crack before they did it just to avoid it. Not because it hurts, but because it scares your body down to the cellular level. And it's something you can't just calmly think your way through. They had a few big fish that wouldn't talk. They waterboarded them. They talked. We got what we needed. Case closed. Back to normal interrogation techniques.

[Sue-in-Jersey]

06:38 PM on 02/15/2010

Giving our enemies an excuse to torture, because we tortured.
Fueling enemy recruitment efforts by ignoring international law and moral decency.
Showing America to be a "Great Satan" indeed.

Yeah, case closed.

[DemocraticStraits]

12:12 AM on 02/16/2010

Naivete Police, please pull over.

These people hate us, they want to kill us. They think we're weak. Liberals keep showing them we are. They cut off heads, we argue and bicker over what constitute torture and what doesn't. How many terrorists have stopped trying to kill us since Obama banned waterboarding?

[SusanStoHelit]

06:56 PM on 02/15/2010

Nope. It doesn't work. That's why we didn't use it.

When you are waterboarded, you say anything to make it stop - lies, stories, fables, wild goose chases - you've got no incentive to tell the truth to the vile creatures who are hurting you. That's why it is a horrible method.

[DemocraticStraits]

07:17 PM on 02/15/2010

Uh, yeah. It apparently works very well. It cracked Kahlid Mohammed like an egg.

It isn't necessary when someone is willing to talk, but it's a helluva backup.

These people kill people for a living. Do we really care if they feel scared for once in their life? It would do them a bit of good to feel like some of their victims fee.

[jaslyn]

06:07 PM on 02/15/2010

Cheney's continued presence in the press is all about keeping out of jail by continually defending the results of the kind of torture he approved during his reign of terror and abuse. He and the Repubs refuse to recognize that there are better, less primitive measures to get important information from a suspect. Torture has been PROVEN to NOT work, yet there he is, out in public, blathering his nonsense an nauseum.