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Biden Condemns Israel's Approval Of Plan To Build New Settlements In East Jerusalem

Huffington Post/AP   First Posted: 05/09/10 06:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 04:45 PM ET

Biden Netanyahu

JERUSALEM -- Israel approved the construction of 1,600 new homes for Jews in disputed east Jerusalem on Tuesday - a move that immediately clouded a visit by Vice President Joe Biden aimed at repairing strained ties and kickstarting Mideast peace talks.

The Interior Ministry announced the construction plans just as Biden was wrapping up a series of warm meetings with Israeli leaders.

Biden issued the following statement Tuesday afternoon in response:

I condemn the decision by the government of Israel to advance planning for new housing units in East Jerusalem. The substance and timing of the announcement, particularly with the launching of proximity talks, is precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now and runs counter to the constructive discussions that I've had here in Israel. We must build an atmosphere to support negotiations, not complicate them. This announcement underscores the need to get negotiations under way that can resolve all the outstanding issues of the conflict. The United States recognizes that Jerusalem is a deeply important issue for Israelis and Palestinians and for Jews, Muslims and Christians. We believe that through good faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome that realizes the aspirations of both parties for Jerusalem and safeguards its status for people around the world. Unilateral action taken by either party cannot prejudge the outcome of negotiations on permanent status issues. As George Mitchell said in announcing the proximity talks, "we encourage the parties and all concerned to refrain from any statements or actions which may inflame tensions or prejudice the outcome of these talks.


Relations between Israel and the Obama administration have been chilly precisely because of the settlement issue.

The U.S., like the Palestinians and the rest of the international community, believes that Israeli settlements built on lands claimed by the Palestinians, including east Jerusalem, undermine peace prospects. President Obama has been more outspoken on the issue than his predecessors.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rebuffed calls from the White House to halt all settlement activity, agreeing only to a limited freeze that does not include east Jerusalem.

Israel captured both areas in the 1967 Mideast war and subsequently annexed east Jerusalem. Israel considers its east Jerusalem neighborhoods to be part of its undivided capital, but the annexation has never been internationally recognized and the neighborhoods are widely seen as settlements.

Interior Ministry spokeswoman Efrat Orbach said the new homes would be built in Ramat Shlomo, an existing neighborhood for ultra-Orthodox Jews. She noted that there is a 60-day appeals period, indicating that the decision could yet be changed.

But Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said the move was destroying trust needed to go forward with the new round of indirect peace talks, which the two sides agreed this week would take place under the mediation of U.S. envoy George Mitchell. Peace efforts have been stalled for 14 months, in large part because of Palestinian anger over settlement activity.

"With such an announcement, how can you build trust? This is destroying our efforts to work with Mr. Mitchell," Erekat said. "It's a really disastrous situation. I hope that this will be an eye-opener for all in the international community about the need to have the Israeli government stop such futile exercises."

The announcement threatened to embarrass Biden, whose visit is aimed largely at repairing the relationship with Israel. Biden's public comments throughout the day had clearly been meant to calm Israeli concerns that Obama has been less friendly to the country than past U.S. leaders.

The move also may have been the result of internal politics. A spokesman for Netanyahu said he was unaware of the announcement, raising the possibility that the Interior Ministry – run by a hardline religious party – had not coordinated the news with the Israeli leader or had even tried to embarrass him.

Interior Minister Eli Yishai's office issued a statement saying Tuesday's decision was a procedural step in a long process. "The timing ... has no connection to the U.S. vice president's visit to Israel," it said.

Earlier in the day, Biden made no mention of the settlement dispute as he assured Israelis they can count on strong U.S. backing as peace efforts finally resume. The resumption of talks, albeit indirect, is the first concrete achievement for Obama in the Israeli-Palestinian arena.

The relationship between the two allies, Biden told reporters as he stood beside Netanyahu, has always been a "centerpiece of American policy."

"Progress occurs in the Middle East when everyone knows there is simply no space between the United States and Israel," Biden said.

"The United States will always stand with those who take risks for peace," Biden said, telling Netanyahu, "you're prepared to do that."

Obama began his term with a push for Mideast peace, prodding Israel to freeze its construction of West Bank settlements that swallow up land the Palestinians want for a future state.

The insistence on a total settlement freeze is seen by many in the region to have backfired. Polls show that Israelis have largely come to see Obama as overly sympathetic to Israel's enemies, making it difficult for the administration to get Israeli public opinion behind any difficult peace moves.

Biden offered assurances that the U.S. remained committed to Israel's security. Iran appeared to loom large in Biden's discussions with Netanyahu. "We are determined to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons," he said.

Israel has been pushing for stricter international sanctions targeting Iran's nuclear program, and has refused to rule out a military strike if sanctions fail.

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JERUSALEM -- Israel approved the construction of 1,600 new homes for Jews in disputed east Jerusalem on Tuesday - a move that immediately clouded a visit by Vice President Joe Biden aimed at repairing...
JERUSALEM -- Israel approved the construction of 1,600 new homes for Jews in disputed east Jerusalem on Tuesday - a move that immediately clouded a visit by Vice President Joe Biden aimed at repairing...
 
 
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02:08 PM on 03/17/2010
We have been on the wrong side of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute from the beginning.
AIPAC is allowed to operate on American soil as a lobby of a foreign power without registering as a foreign lobby or accounting for where their funding comes from or where their money goes. General Petraeus and the Joint Chiefs realize that the fools errand the US Military has been assigned is impossible due to the factually accurate perception by the Moslem world of U.S. favoritism for Israel. If the US cuts all material & financial support (a million dollars a day) to Israel, then America will cease to be perceived as a tool of Zionist expansionism. But this will NEVER happen because AIPAC & Mossad have the "juicy dirt" on every influential member of the American political landscape. Doesn't anyone remember Jack Abramoff? He was one of the Zionist operatives that set up American politicians. What ever happened to Abramoff and the scandals he devised? The man & the scandals vanished from medial coverage because much of the American Media is controlled by Zionist sympathizers. Look what happened to Bill Maher! America has been called the "Empire of the Devil" for good reason. So our military will continue to be sacrificed for the safety & security of Israel and American taxpayers will pay for apartment blocks in East Jerusalem, whether the American public likes it or not.
04:25 AM on 03/14/2010
I sometimes wonder if the significant parts of Jerusalem should be made into a secularly governed National Park.
08:10 PM on 03/11/2010
Building housing in East Jerusalem on land already owned not by any Palestinians but by Jews is hardly a "settlement."
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Californian2020
04:18 AM on 03/15/2010
East Jerusalem is 100% Palestinian land... illegally annexed by Israel in 1967. NO country in the world has recognized this annexation. It's in direct violation of UN Security Council Resolution 242, which DEMANDS Israel to UNCONDITIONALLY withdraw from ALL of East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza and Golan Heights!! Read the Resolution. Not even your best ally the United States recognizes Israel's sovereignty in East Jerusalem.

Is it not enough for you Zionists that you STOLE ALL of historic Palestine in the name of some Biblical fallacy? Is it not enough that you drove out close to 1 million Palestinians of their homes in 1948 and more later? Is it not enough that you've been killing children, women, men, uprooting olive trees, building apartheid walls, stifling Palestinians on their land, stealing their water and dehumanizing them any chance you got? SHAME on you!
11:10 PM on 03/15/2010
There is a lot of blood to go around but don't fool yourself into thinking this land belonged more to one group than another. It was stolen back and forth between israels and palestinians countless times since the beginning of time. It is the core of the conflict that has been going on since the beginning of time and both sides have plenty of blood and crimes on their hands.
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campaignman
03:26 PM on 03/11/2010
In November 2009, Netanyahu announced there would be a construction freeze in West Bank communities. It was explicitly stated at the time that the freeze would not apply to Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem that lie beyond the pre-1967 borders.[7]

The Obama administration and Western diplomats had agreed to Israel’s request to remove Jerusalem from the settlement freeze.[8]

“In order to help move the peace process forward the current government of Israel, under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has adopted unprecedented limitations on growth in the settlements. But we make a clear distinction between the West Bank and Jerusalem." Mark Regev, government spokesman.

Ramat Shlomo, built in 1995, is a neighborhood of 20,000 residents.[10] Knesset (Israeli Parliament) Speaker Reuven Rivlin said Ramat Shlomo is just one of several Jerusalem neighborhoods that every Israeli government has considered an integral part of Jerusalem. “No government has even considered not building in them,” Rivlin said.[11]

Said Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat on Nov. 17, 2009, "Israeli law does not discriminate between Jews, Muslims, and Christians or between eastern and western Jerusalem. The demand to halt construction by religion is not legal in the United States or in any other free place in the world. I do not presume that any government would demand to freeze construction in the United States based on race, religion or gender and the attempt to demand it from Jerusalem is a double standard and inconceivable."[12]

-- The Israel Project
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
10:20 PM on 03/11/2010
Two questions campaignman,

First, When did US officials "agree to" Israel's "request" to exempt East Jerusalem from the settlement freeze.

As I recall it, Israel unilaterally exempted East Jerusalem form a "freeze" (which isn't even really a freeze) and at best, in the interest of getting ANY talks going, the US and Western leaders "tolerated" this move. They most certainly didn't AGREE to it.

Bear in mind, that to the US, and to the Western Powers, East Jerusalem (including the huge chunks taken from the West Bank and added to the city to triple its size) is considered Occupied Territory -- They do not, and never have "agreed" to the annexation of East Jerusalem.

Indeed, the only nation that recognizes this illegal annexation is Israel.

It is just that the US isn't pressing the issue right now, because the Obama Administration has higher priorities at the moment : namely health care, the economy, and re-regulating the financial industry.

Obama isn't going to spend any political capital on Israel and The Territories while trying to get these primary planks of his agenda through Congress.

That doesn't mean a confrontation won't come down the road. Netanyahu is making hay while the sun shines-- but he doesn't realize the harm he is doing to Israel's future as a Jewish state.
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campaignman
03:17 PM on 03/11/2010
With Biden in Region, PA Cancels Ceremony for Terrorist who Killed American; PA Will Still Name Square After Terrorist

Senior Palestinian Authority (PA) officials at the last minute canceled plans to hold a ceremony Thursday (March 11) to dedicate a square in the West Bank city of Ramallah commemorating a female Palestinian terrorist who led a 1978 terrorist attack that killed 37 civilians including a U.S. citizen.[1]

The event would have coincided with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden’s visit to the region. Biden is in the Middle East to support indirect negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians agreed upon this week. The United States will act as mediator in these talks.[2]

The PA canceled the ceremony[3] after Israeli Information and Diaspora Minister Yuli Edelstein requested Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ask the U.S. administration to put a stop to the event celebrating terrorist Dalal al-Mughrabi.[4] The square will still be named after al-Mughrabi.

Al-Mughrabi, who was a member of PA President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah faction, led a cell of terrorists that infiltrated Israel from Lebanon and hijacked a bus of vacationers. In all, the terrorists killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children and one a U.S. citizen. The American Gail Rubin, was the niece of former U.S. Senator Abraham Ribicoff, and a nature photographer.[7]

In the past two years, al-Mughrabi has been honored in numerous ways.

-- The Israel Project
05:29 AM on 03/14/2010
campaignman/israel project, the point of your posts is simply that Palestinians are bad
and Israel is good. What a bore you are. You, and people like you on the other side, add nothing to this problem. In fact, you and people like you on the other side of the conflict ARE the problem.

Congratulations.
11:52 PM on 03/10/2010
I agree that the Jerusalem building apartment announcement was unhelpful and a personal affront to Biden, who is a nice guy and a Bibi's personal friend. Bibi should apologize for the timing of the announcement, at least in private.
Unfortunately for Palestinains, utterly unforgivable steps they took since Camp David destroyed any chances Israeli doves will come to power any time soon.
While it is nice and laudable that Obama administration is trying their hand at peace making, it's largely a waste of time given the realities on the ground.
Comprehensive peace is not possible at this point. West Bank is enjoying limited autonomy and economic resurgence right now. And some form of autonomy should expanded.
But until IIsraelis vote in a more moderate government and Palestinains oust Hamas and present a united government this is all just a waste of time
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
10:29 PM on 03/11/2010
Oleg,

I don't think this will be resolved by "doves" coming into office.

I think peace will only come when some Israelis wake up to the fact that if they keep building those "realities on the ground" -- the point will come when it will be impossible to create a second state.

At that point, Israel will be in the bind that its current Defense Minister mentioned a couple of weeks ago:

It will be left with two alternatives-- either becoming an "apartheid state" or becoming a single, BI-NATIONAL state, with full citizenship and equality for the Palestinians.

Israel is missing a golden opportunity because they have -- right now-- a willing partner to FAIR negotiations with Abbas.

But he won't be around forever, and if he fails to deliver full statehood, then the Palestinians may just turn to Hamas as the only alternative.

Or it may just come to the point where the Palestinians, recognizing the de facto annexation of the West Bank, will call for the de jure annexation well. Israel will get what the settlers want -- "Greater Israel" - but they will have to take the Palestinians with it.

And you already know which way the demographic winds are blowing. Certainly Obama and Biden know this as well-- and if Israel won't even accept American requests for a settlement freeze, will let events take their course.
09:41 PM on 03/10/2010
The Jewish people has been scolded since time immemorial going back to the earliest days after the Creation ... scolded by the Prophets, by Moses, by the Almighty Himself.

I'm sure Joe Biden won't cause them to tremble.
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shivasquest
08:04 PM on 03/10/2010
Via Sullivan;

Israel Humiliates Biden

People seem to think I have been imagining a contemptuous attitude toward the US by the Israeli government, or that my concerns about its "Go Cheney Yourself" policy on the peace process are somehow a function of obsessiveness or something that isn't anti-Semitism but is somehow even "darker". But I am not imagining these things. They are real and they are dangerous:

Hours after Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. vowed unyielding American support for Israel’s security here on Tuesday, Israel’s Interior Ministry announced 1,600 new housing units for Jews in East Jerusalem. Mr. Biden condemned the move as “precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now.” ...
06:55 PM on 03/10/2010
GOOD for YOU vice President Biden!

He is 100% SPOT ON... & don't think for ONE MOMENT that Bibi didn't DELIBERATELY PLAN this announcement to coincide with his visit there.

These new settlements..in fact ALL SETTLEMENTS need to GO.

Israel AGREED to do this DECADES ago.. as well as their PROMISE to revert back to pre-1967 borders. They RENEGED.. & that is a SHANDA.

..and BEFORE anyone starts in on me as being an "antisemite" or an "Anti-Israel"..

As a J E W who's mother still sports numbers tattooed on her forearm, I FERVENTLY support the premise that The State of Israel MUST endure.

As a LIBERAL, I'm ASHAMED of some of the rhetoric.. some just simplistic.. some PLAINLY antisemitic by so-called "progressives" when it comes to Israel.

That said, I ALSO am ASHAMED that their neoconservatives currently in power are a bunch of THUGS that have committed atrocities in Gaza & the West Bank (turning Gaza into a GHETTO that can rival Warsaw)... & have treated the Palestinian People as WE had been treated in Germany.

The people of Israel MUST purge themselves of the same malignancy that WE had managed to do last November....

These animosities in the MidEast have been ongoing for MILLENNIA..but we CAN'T stop trying to end the insanity. .

http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/homepage.asp

http://peacenow.org/.
01:12 AM on 03/11/2010
The ONLY reason rgithwing government is in power right now is because the vision of peace brought forth by the Doves since Olso turned out to be a joke and dangerous one to boot.
Fact is that since Oslo more Israelis dies in terrorist acts then in all previous time.
Israeli electorate understand ( now) that setting up PLO infrastructure based solely on Arafat' promises was a catastrophic and naive mistake.
And it is the Doves who sold this idea to the country that are paying the price for it.
The formerly vigorous leftwing in Israeli politics i is unfortunately no more.
The party of heroic larger-than life socialists who build Israeli social welfare state and defeated its enemies is no more.
Granted, there are a few liberal parties but they're ineffectual politically correct types modeling themselves on petty bourgeois American liberal.
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NTT
Fighting rants with facts
08:26 AM on 03/11/2010
DocStrangeLove: I do not believe that you are a Jew - even less that your mother was in a concentration camp. You are obviously posturing and deceiving.
Gaza has nothing to do with the Warsaw Ghetto. I think it is shameful to suggest that and an offense to the people who actually died in Warsaw. Gazans certainly suffer from a harsh blockade. But they are not dying of cold and malnutrition and are not shipped to concentration camps to be gassed and otherwise systematically exterminated.
As for your "...treated the Palestinian People as WE had been treated in Germany", it only shows that you know nothing of what the Germans actually did to Jews, Gipsies, etc. They were systematically and deliberately butchered in their millions, in specially-designed "factories" of death, far away from any military conflict. Even if you believe the most outragious Arab propaganda, there is still no similarity there. If you wish to use this "claim" as an insult, that's fine. As an argument, it only shows ignorance or malvolence. You are doing Palestinians no favors: I (and many like me, I'm sure) will turn my face in disgust from anyone using that kind of rhetoric.
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10:12 AM on 03/11/2010
-1of2
"Gaza has nothing to do with the Warsaw Ghetto"
You are correct that there are differences but there are also similarities. The degree of intentional cruelty perpetrated during ww2 toward the victims is on another level and really baffles the mind. The ghettoization of the Palestinians, the way their food, electricity, water, you name it, is controlled is eerily reminiscent of any ethnic repression. I happen to know a thing or two about the horrors of ww2 and I agree that i had trouble with Doc Strangelov's mother has tattoo thing also. I wish i could tell you stuff but i bite my tong because it does not really belong in this type of conversation.
You use the "it's an insult" argument and that is wrong. Yet an other "we are the victims first" barraging. The Palestinians do not have citizenship. They have been encamped, ghettoised, whatever you want to call it. Their water and electricity use severely controlled, They have been removed from their land to be given to Israelis. These type of measures are racist and oppressive and based on the premise of religious birthright. This is the similarity. Ok not the type of atrocities such as deliberately starving the Jews by putting sawdust in the bread to lower it's nutrition value. Even the wearing of the star was more extreme. ->
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10:13 AM on 03/11/2010
2of2
06:30 PM on 03/10/2010
Again...

ALL of the Arab Nations are going to have to be MUCH more proactive in settling this dispute than they have done... the quasi-righteous indignation spouted by them regarding the Palestinians NEVER actually manifested as anything other than empty rhetoric..

For example, when Netanyahu is FINALLY bounced by Livni (she actually WON last time.. but Bibi pulled a "Bush" on her & stole it) the REAL process can restart.

Israel MUST return to pre-1967 borders, which means that the GOLAN HEIGHTS has to go back to SYRIA, who was controlling the territory when they attacked Israel. Like it or not, THEY have to have a dog in this fight as well... & allow the Palestinians to annex it as their own.

Gaza & the West Bank (along with Golan) should comprise the SOVEREIGN STATE of PALESTINE.

As much influence that the United States might have with Israel.. the ONE MAN in the region that is INDISPENSABLE is KING ABDULLAH of JORDAN... who is the ONLY PARTICIPANT that can make this work for ALL PARTYS.

In Islam, the Hashemite King of Jordan is the ONLY ruler in that region charged with the "Guardianship" over JERUSALEM...

NOT "Israel"...

NOT "Palestine"..

NOT the United States..

For me, Israel should once again adopt TEL AVIV as it's Capitol.. & Jerusalem should be designated an INTERNATIONAL CITY... Generally overseen by Jordan... with the disparate "zones" adjudicated by the different ethnicity's that live in them.
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10:00 PM on 03/10/2010
Tel Aviv has never been Israel's capital. It's capital has been Jerusalem since 1948.

Israel will never agree to the Hashemite king being the ruler of Jerusalem. They may agree to joint soveriegnty over the Old City with the Palestinians but never the entire city (especially, West Jerusalem) by anyone but themselves.

How can Israel return the Golan to Syria yet at the same time be part of the Palestinian state?

Bibi didn't pull a Bush. Nobody denies that Bibi's party received fewer votes than Livni's. In a parliamentary system if your party can't achieve a majority of seats (which was the case with Kadima and Likud) then each party is free to form a coalition with other parties in order to achieve a majority. Likud was simply able to attract more seats.
04:32 AM on 03/14/2010
Anyone who has been to Jerusalem knows by looking around them that West Jerusalem is off the map and will never be controlled by anyone other than Israel. The Old City and East Jerusalem, respectively, are different matters to deal with if you believe in a two state solution.

Still, my first sentence, which I am sure you would agree with of course, since it just reiterates what you said yourself, brings a few things to mind about Israel creating facts on the ground.

This is of course why people get upset about things like this article and the settlements in general, since they are fundamentally about creating, over time, a situation in those locals as well in which your average visitor would look around them and say "Well, sure, this is obviously off the map, no question about debating this, just look around you."

West Jerusalem was not always the way that it is now, needless to say. I'm sure you understand my point.
04:45 AM on 03/14/2010
Btw, I think West Jerusalem is a beautiful place and I enjoyed living there very much.
Of course my Palestinian friends didn't like to hear that sort of thing. Neither did my Israeli friends like to hear about my Palestinian friends or my time spent in Palestinian cities/towns. I thought it was very striking how neither one wanted to hear anything about the other. Too bad. They were all good people.
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12:53 AM on 03/11/2010
for a guy who doesn't like capitals, U sure use a lot of them
06:22 PM on 03/10/2010
2006 Hamas leader interview:

[BBC] Q:Let's get this clear - you are saying there's no problem with a two-state solution if Israel retreats, goes back to the boundaries that existed just before the 1967 borders?

A:If Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders and recognised the rights of the Palestinian people - including the right of those in the diaspora to return to their land and to East Jerusalem and to dismantle the settlements - Hamas can then state its position and possibly give a long-term truce
Truce would be long term but limited ."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4693382.stm
HA-HA--HA.
truce, not peace, possibly.... limited... This is delusional...

No wonder Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and others had to teach Hamas a lesson in humility.
Too bad civilians all around have to suffer.
06:31 PM on 03/10/2010
HAMAS must be OUT of the LOOP.
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09:26 PM on 03/10/2010
You can't do that
06:20 PM on 03/10/2010
How come the Tea Baggers and conservatives are no screaming Bloody Murder over how much money we send to Israel. Well where is your anger?
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07:01 PM on 03/10/2010
Excellent point. They know it'd be the end of their positive coverage in the MSM.
06:20 PM on 03/10/2010
"She [Hamas suicide bomber Re'em Al-Riyashi] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Associated Press, January 15, 2004
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09:30 PM on 03/10/2010
Yah yah, Do you honestly think that would be the position if you gave them the 67 borders?
11:43 PM on 03/10/2010
Obviously.
Most Islamic organizations reject 67 borders as a basis of total peace with Israel.
Proof-1 - read this Hamas interview:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4693382.stm

Proof2-. When Palestinian Arabs DID have full possession of the 67 borders, including E. Jerusalem, entire W. Bank and Gaza, the pace of attacks against Israel was greater than ever ( 1947-1967).
05:51 AM on 03/14/2010
Hamas is an unreasonable organization, to put it mildly. I don't see how Israel can negotiate with them. They are too militant, too fundamentalist. I will say straight-forwardly to you that I am sympathetic to the Palestinian desire for a state of their own, but I am entirely hostile toward Hamas and basically everything they represent.

I really don't see how anything can move forward with Hamas being in control of Gaza, aside from ignoring them for the time being and dealing only with Abbas/the West Bank.
Some kind of breakthrough there, however small, could work to undermine support of the militancy and fundamentalism of an organization such as Hamas, don't you think?
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03:06 PM on 03/14/2010
If Hamas is the representation of the people, then you must deal with them. Their militancy is a manifestation of a resistance movement. The settlements have radicalized them further. If you were to stop the settlements and dismantle half, put the 67 borders on the table, they would stop the violence, i am sure. To outlaw them is more an excuse to continue the repression of the Palestinian people and will only fuel further violence.
We must promote democracy by removing the extreme aggression and conditions against the Palestinians bringing a certain amount of normality. This will be required for moderate forces to dominate
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05:14 PM on 03/10/2010
For more detail on what transpired early on, read "Looting, Looting, and More Looting" from Israeli historian-journalist Tom Segev [http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story680.html]

[begin excerpt]

"Two days after the seizure of Jish, in the Safed district, the army surrounded the village and carried out searches. In the course of the search soldiers robbed several of the houses and stole 605 pounds, jewelry and other valuables. When the people who were robbed insisted on being given receipts for their property, they were taken to a remote place and shot dead. The villagers protested to the local commander, Manu Friedmann, who had the bodies brought back to the village. The finger of one of the dead had been cut off to remove a ring. ..." In the State Archives there are many files containing information about the plundering and looting, including the acts of Arab robber gangs. Some of these files are still closed to researchers. However, something may be learned from the index titles: Plunder of Abandoned Arab Property; Looting; Possession without Permit; Robbery. Yosef Lamm, MK (MAPAI) stated, "None of us behaved during the war in a way we might have expected the Jewish people to behave, either with regard to property or human life, and we should all be ashamed."
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Talossa
Liberal. Pro-Israel. Recovering atheist.
06:03 PM on 03/10/2010
And what does this prove?
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06:20 PM on 03/10/2010
It establishes that so much of what is considered the official narrative is less than accurate. Land and property were stolen, murders/massacres were committed, laws were changed to benefit the thieves, etc.

It means that the current excuses for Israelis taking more land not belonging to them should be viewed in light of how this was facilitated in the past. If no one speaks up they will again get away with it. The US should not be subsidizing such theft with their dollars.

Part of the reason why the link offered is important because any such historical accounts are generally dismissed if the source is an Arab one. This is an Israeli historian using Israeli records.

Your "And what does this prove?" question leads me to believe that you are not troubled by such actions as long as they do not happen to the side you support.

It must be insanely frustrating to be a Palestinian and to see how difficult it is to try to get an accurate depiction of events into the public consciousness.
01:30 PM on 03/10/2010
The most disgusting part of all of this is that there are people who would use the holocaust and all of the shame, pain and suffering associated with it to bully other people who disagree with them with the "anti-Semitic" label.

I'm not anti-Semitic. I lost family in the holocaust, and in Stalin's purges. You don't hear me crying about it and accusing everyone who disagrees with me of anti-Russianism.

The REAL anti-Semites are the Israeli people who think that theirs is the master race, who believe other Semitic peoples in the middle east are just subhuman slaves.
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Talossa
Liberal. Pro-Israel. Recovering atheist.
01:52 PM on 03/10/2010
Except that nobody in Israel (except perhaps a tiny lunatic fringe) believes this. And anyone who does believe that this is the prevailing attitude in Israel, is anti-Semitic.
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02:00 PM on 03/10/2010
To summarize: Basically, everybody is anti-Semitic as soon as they question anything regarding Israel or its rightwing government (which is not exactly the "fringe").

Anything but mindless support of each and every single thing done by the Israelis is anti-Semitic. We get that.
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02:10 PM on 03/10/2010
Is it possible to be against Israel's policies and not be anti semitic?
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01:53 PM on 03/10/2010
ditto
[i can't say that, they block me]