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Afghan Civilians Attacked By NATO Troops: Four Killed, 18 Wounded In Kandahar

Afghanistan Civilians Nato

KATHY GANNON and NOOR KHAN   04/12/10 10:19 PM ET   AP

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Afghans burned tires and chanted "Death to America" after U.S. troops fired on a civilian bus near Kandahar, killing four people and wounding more than a dozen. Afghanistan's president accused NATO of violating its commitment to safeguard civilian lives.

The attack Monday enraged Afghan officials and the public in Kandahar, the Taliban's birthplace, and dealt a fresh blow to U.S. and NATO efforts to win popular support for a coming offensive to drive the insurgents from the biggest city in the south. NATO expressed regret for the loss of civilian lives and said it was investigating.

Nearly 200 Afghans blocked highway where the shooting occurred, burning tires, firing weapons and chanting "Death to America" and other slogans. They also called for the ouster of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a Kandahar native who has been appealing for the people here to support the U.S.-led campaign against the Taliban.

"The Americans are constantly killing our civilians and the government is not demanding an explanation," protester Mohammad Razaq said. "We demand justice from the Karzai government and the punishment of those soldiers responsible."

There were conflicting accounts of the shooting, which took place before dawn in the Taliban-infiltrated Zhari district along the main highway linking Kandahar with the western provinces of Helmand and Nimroz.

NATO said the bus approached a slow-moving military patrol from the rear at a high speed. Troops opened fire after the driver ignored flares and other warnings – including flashlights and hand signals – to slow down, NATO said in a statement. It confirmed four people were killed, adding the alliance "deeply regrets the tragic loss of life."

The alliance statement did not identify the soldiers' nationality, but witnesses and local Afghan officials said they were Americans. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they did not want to create problems with the NATO command.

One of the survivors, Rozi Mohammad, told The Associated Press at Kandahar hospital that the bus had just left a terminal when it pulled over to the side of the road to allow an American convoy to pass. Shooting broke out as the third or fourth American vehicle passed by, he said.

"They just suddenly opened fire. I don't know why. We had been stopped and after that I don't know what happened," said Mohammad, his left eye swollen shut and his beard and clothing matted with blood.

Karzai, who has often criticized the NATO force for endangering civilians, condemned the attack, adding that "this shooting involving a civilian bus violates NATO's commitment to safeguard civilian life."

Kandahar, a city of about a half million people, is nominally under government control, but the Taliban have stepped up infiltration, staging attacks and intimidating inhabitants.

Three suicide bombers attacked an Afghan intelligence compound in the city Monday, wounding 10 people, officials said. One of the bombers was captured, they added.

Nevertheless, much of the public anger was directed Monday against foreign forces as word of the pre-dawn shooting swept the city.

"These foreigners have their enemies, but killing Afghans is not the answer," said Abdul Hadi, who sells homemade herbal remedies in a public market. He said international forces should publish a schedule of their patrols so Afghans can keep out of the way.

"Better yet, I would like to see them leave Afghanistan," he added.

The top NATO commander in Afghanistan, U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, issued strict guidelines last year limiting the use of force in an effort to reduce civilian casualties and curb public anger.

At least 2,412 Afghan civilians were killed in fighting last year, an increase of 14 percent from 2008, according to the United Nations. But the U.N. found that the percentage of civilian deaths attributed to NATO and Afghan government forces had dropped. About two-thirds of the civilian deaths were a result of actions initiated by the insurgents, including ambushes, assassinations and roadside bombs.

Nevertheless, civilian deaths remain a source of friction between the Afghans and the international forces.

Earlier this month, NATO confirmed its forces were responsible for the deaths of five people, including three women, killed Feb. 12 in Gardez, south of Kabul.

An Afghan government report said U.S. Special Forces attacked the wrong target and sought to cover up the mistake by digging bullets out of bodies, according to Afghan investigators who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak with the media.

___

Associated Press writers Rahim Faiez, Slobodan Lekic and Christopher Bodeen contributed to this story from Kabul.

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KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Afghans burned tires and chanted "Death to America" after U.S. troops fired on a civilian bus near Kandahar, killing four people and wounding more than a dozen. Afghanist...
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Afghans burned tires and chanted "Death to America" after U.S. troops fired on a civilian bus near Kandahar, killing four people and wounding more than a dozen. Afghanist...
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12:07 AM on 04/14/2010
I don’t remember the French, or the Dutch, or others coming out to chant “death to America” when one of our bombs missed its Nazi target and killed local innocent civilians. Believe me it happened every damn day during the war. Maybe it’s just me but these Afghan people don’t seem at all worth the price we are paying to liberate them.
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02:05 PM on 04/14/2010
"... these Afghan people don’t seem at all worth the price we are paying to liberate them."


The reason why the U.S. is in Afghanistan is to liberate the Afghans?
11:42 PM on 04/13/2010
Personally I am so sick of the Afghan people I could puke. Sometimes NATO soldiers shoot each other up. Do they do that on purpose too? It is called friendly fire. It’s scary to be in a war zone where the enemy wears a burqa and then runs up at the last second and detonates himself. Of course the good guys are on hair trigger. Wouldn’t you be? The Afghan people sit back and do nothing to help us to liberate them. They hate the Taliban but are too cowardly to join us and drive them out. They expect us to have magic bullets that only hit the Taliban among them and never hit an innocent. Even when we kill Taliban the locals will claim they were civilians so they can try and collect the compensation money. These people need to stop complaining so much while doing absolutely nothing to help us liberate them.
05:13 AM on 04/13/2010
Rob Kall Speaks to Veteran of "COLLATERAL MURDER" Company WikiLeaks Reported
Josh Stieber, a former U.S. Army Specialist, is speaking out. A member of the Bravo Company 2-16 whose acts of brutality made headlines this week with the Wikileaks release of the video "Collateral Murder," Stieber says such acts were not isolated incidents, but were commonplace during his tour of duty. "After watching the video, I would definitely say that that is, nine times out of ten, the way things ended up," says Stiebe....................................From OpEdNews
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05:09 AM on 04/13/2010
YouTube - Afraid To Shoot Strangers,.....
02:48 AM on 04/13/2010
Comrades, the source is the US soldier whose lecture a couple of days ago was on how "we open up in all directions if there's a (bomb by Afghans) goes off near us""We light them up" also "our sergeants tell us to do that" That's close enough for a paraphrase. If you want to , you will find a source. The source, if you don't, that's life. The video of the thugs in the helicopter, what does that tell you? ...rules of engagement. ? That's just "lawyerspeak"for the same thing that happened at Malmedy. The Fuhrer told his soldiers " I take responsibility". so their atrocities were not their sins, but his. We will see what the tribunal of history says in a few years. How a country can justify invading another for oil gluttony. Someone sais "It's Obamas war" , some said "It's Bush's war. Guess what, a glance at easily available open sources will tel you the Americans have been in Afghanistan since before the Soviets invaded. The CIA created the Taliban and Al Qaeda to drain the Soviets of blood and men and money. The US gave Stinger missiles, and when the Soviets pulled out, the Americans left the Afghans dry. The only reason Americans stayed was to buy the Stingers back for $100,000 each. These stories can be found in any library, and the one about the Stingers was written by a US special ops soldier. In Abu Grahib, there's no need to line anyone up
08:00 AM on 04/13/2010
Malmedy?

If you don't see the difference between lining up hundreds of captured GI's and murdering them with machine guns, to engaging armed men in battle, then I can't help you.

No one can.
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Jannsmoor
11:30 AM on 04/13/2010
And if you can't see the difference between machine gunning a busload of innocent civilians and engaging armed men in battle, then no one can help you.
01:27 AM on 04/13/2010
Open up on a bus? You have to be sh*tt*ng me! THese clowns are either nervous ninnies or g*dd*mn trigger happy murderers!

Its high time we got out of Afghanistan and left the country to its own devices. Anything that can happen from here on out is bad!
12:23 PM on 04/13/2010
Well, our forces open up on hospitals and schools as well. Apparently are no limits involved in annihilating civilizations, the only limits are in the disclosure and accountability for our deadly deeds.
If an occupying force was perpetuating these crimes on our soil there would be armed pandemonium on the part of our citizenry - and rightly so.

"We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and the Officers Would Take Care of Us"
http://www.truthout.org/iraq-war-vet-we-were-told-just-shoot-people-and-officers-would-take-care-us58378

http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3-articles/963-tears-of-rage-tears-of-grief-mass-death-returns-to-ishaqi.html

http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3-articles/1405-dead-souls-the-pentagon-plan-to-create-remorseless-qwarfightersq.html

U.S. Ge.no.cide in Iraq
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_25218.shtml
12:32 AM on 04/13/2010
A huge problem here is very few non-Muslims, ESPECIALLY THE US MILITARY AND PUBLIC, simply do not grasp that grudge bearing is the Afghanis' national sport.

I am not Islamic but I've read Qu'ran translations (silly me, it was the first thing I did after 9/11, thinking everyone would, of course, consider it the wise and responsible thing to do, HA!) and so much of what the book teaches about the world and the groups in it stems directly from offenses—and favors—committed by a bunch of Balkanized but entangled by alliances tribes running around the Arabian peninsula before 1000AD. Believe me, according to the Qu’ran Allah, STILL hasn’t gotten over the Jews and that whole thing with the gold calf idol they made while waiting for Moses. And since Allah is still steamed at the Jews WE ALL MUST BE AS WELL. I am not kidding.

People don’t get it that the whole war was likely lost by the end of the first year. By then we had gone all over the place randomly scooping up detainees like a vacuum out of control, beating them up, humiliating them, and often keeping imprisoned for months with no cause and in doing so irreversibly hardened Afghan hearts and encouraging blood vendettas. No improvement since.

At this point we could coat the whole frigging country in good leaf, and it would not make a difference. The damage is done.
12:49 AM on 04/13/2010
I think Iraq may come out of this positively. Of course the terrorists and sectarians still have a vote.

Afghanistan I am not so sure. Karzai doesn't sound like much of a leader. The enemy is utterly ruthless. Pakistani border is open practically speaking.

There is no way to fix and destroy enemy.

We dont have millions of soldiers to secure population.

Maybe back out and retain a big stick if they try to restart any terror bases for AQ/etc.
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Jannsmoor
11:32 AM on 04/13/2010
You mean Iraq may come out of this positively as long as you don't expect a democracy, and don't count the hundreds of thousands dead and disfigured, right. You have to take them out of the equation.
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Acharn
08:31 PM on 04/13/2010
"There is no way to fix and destroy enemy." Well, duh! It was the same in Vietnam, except not so many of the peasants had guns. For all the talk about counterinsurgency and winning hearts and minds, that's really really hard, but shooting people isn't so that's what our soldiers do. Also, of course, there's the claim that our merry special ops boys are still running around scooping up people and disappearing them into interrogation centers for months or years. Some of them have never been seen again. How do you suppose their families feel about how we've come to "help" them?

In this case we don't even know from day to day who the enemy is. "See, there are these people who want to kill us, so we kill them, and sometimes we accidentally kill people who don't want to kill us, and then their friends and families all want to kill us."
12:22 AM on 04/13/2010
a speeding bus in a war zone. wont stop?

yep, id prob shoot too, better safe than dead from a suicide bomber. blame the suicide bombers who dress as civilians first!
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02:07 AM on 04/13/2010
Why wouldn't you blame the invaders first?
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Jannsmoor
11:28 AM on 04/13/2010
Because you have no respect for the life of another person. You are a lost soul. I suggest you drop everything and begin a 15 year religious quest with the goal of finding enlightenment.
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12:06 AM on 04/13/2010
Eye witness testimonies. Each and every one contradicting the Iies told by the US Army:

“An American convoy was ahead of us and another convoy was following us, and we were going to pull off of the road, and suddenly the Americans opened fire.”

“We were not close to them, maybe 60 yards away from their convoy.”

“This bus wasn’t like a s.uicide b0mber, and we did not touch or come close to the convoy. It seems they are opening fire on civilians intentionally.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/world/asia/13afghan.html?ref=world
12:21 AM on 04/13/2010
your an igorantt libtardd

i gues you hate this country and those that provide for your freedom. shameful.
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12:24 AM on 04/13/2010
Since those were quotes from the NY Times article, obviously you believe THEY h.ate your country, right?

Thanks for a wonderfully thought up reply. I'm always impressed with the intellectual depth of those who cheer for US military war crimes...
01:05 AM on 04/13/2010
the right to buy something from w@l-m@rt at 3 am in the morning?-no where else was there so much airport security waits in lines hours long paranoia and mean people behind the security checkpoints than HERE IN THE GOOD OLE USA
i have traveled all over the planet-we are hated among nations-YOU HAVE TO ASK WHY?????????????????????????????????????????????? THAT IS??????????????????
WHY IS AMERICA HATED SO MUCH??????????????????????????
WHAT HAS AMERICA EVER DONE TO DESERVE SUCH HATRED????????????????????
it is a shame how the world views our corporatocracy-why we have spread freedom and democracy throughout the world-WHY WOULD ANYONE HATE THE USA GOVERNMENT?
ask yourself that one LIBERAL CRUSHER-maybe your cpu will implode because your mainframe will scream does not compute at itself till meltdown
12:31 AM on 04/13/2010
i have seen video after video of military and private contractors opening fire indiscriminately and killing civilians and laughing about it-it is like a video game over there-war crimes for sure!!!!!!!!!!
let me guess i dont really know what is really going on?
my dasd was military i lived on base most of my life no way was i joining-war is damned!
11:49 PM on 04/12/2010
Please for give me if this a stupid question, but I am curious... The difficulties communicating and just getting out the message notwithstanding, is there a stated protocol for what to look for and what to do—a “new rules of the road” if you will--that has been issued to troops and city dwellers alike? I mean, have locals and soldiers been given the steps to follow when a local vehicle encounters a convoy? For example should everyone know or been told something like

“1) In the event an Afghan driven vehicle approaches a slow moving NATO convoy from behind, the driver should keep his distance and wait for a member of the convoy to acknowledge the Afghan with a (insert signal here) followed by a (signal) which means permission granted to pass. If the Afghan accelerates or the convoy gives a (signal) then kiss your ass goodbye cuz you are 3 secs from being lit up like the 4th of July…blah blah blah.”

What I’m getting at here is there even an established procedure that one could say one party did or didn’t observe therefore they are guilty or do the NATO guys just hope wild gesticulations and frantic screams will be obvious.
11:52 PM on 04/12/2010
Good question.

Can any vets respond?
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12:01 AM on 04/13/2010
A moot point.

You're starting from the assumption that the US Army is telling the truth when, in fact, each and every eye witness claims they're LYING and that the bus was, in fact, pulling over and stopping as the convoy approached.
12:11 AM on 04/13/2010
LOL. Mandy, weapons expert, pilot, combat tactition, and now afghan war vet chimes in with another enlightening tidbt...
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11:53 PM on 04/12/2010
Please don't call them NATO guys so that mindless drones may believe it was foreign troops doing the kiIIing. They were AMERICAN soldiers. The only ones guilty of such unspeakable war crimes.
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Acharn
08:37 PM on 04/13/2010
Don't be silly. At lest the Brits have done similar things, and I suppose other national contingents, too. I don't have time to research it now, but there are several different national contingents. Some of them do not carry weapons to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen.
10:09 AM on 04/17/2010
Oh and the German and british troops never had civilian casualties??? Your a fool.
11:00 PM on 04/12/2010
Obama is responsible for this massacre. You don't clean Bush's mess by escaIating wars. Now ignorant W. Bush is biking in Crawford. He has nothing to to with this.
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Acharn
08:41 PM on 04/13/2010
Actually, he's living in Dallas. After leaving office he didn't need the public relations value of the ranch, and I suspect he never really enjoyed clearing the brush.
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09:52 PM on 04/12/2010
redrock008:

"Also, amazingly you chopped this part off the top of your quote:
"Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the American and NATO commander in Afghanistan, has made reducing civilian casualties a priority, and they have gone down over the last year.""

I omitted it because it was IRRELEVANT. Unless, of course, you believe everything you hear from the US Army, which I'm sure you do. In that case, why even try to argue with me, just believe the ABSURD story of the driver wanting to kiII himself and everyone else on board. Or, even more ridiculous, believe that the driver and the children were AI Qaeda. Don't worry, it wouldn't surprise me if you decided to go that way.

If you want an intelligent debate, stop with your silly diversions and address my point.

You have stated that we don't know whether the bus was had no weapons on board.
WE ACTUALLY DO! And that's because ALL SOURCES (including the US Army) agree on that, as per NYT article.

I'll ask you again:

Explain me WHY on earth the driver would do something as stupid as what the US Army alleges he did. Also explain me why numerous eye witnesses who swear by the bus being parked would all Iie, but the US Army would never ever do that (even if FACTS prove otherwise...)

You didn't even try.
10:04 PM on 04/12/2010
Ridiculous.
Ok, as simply as I can, the driver, while seeking a better afterlife, believes the easiest way to attain this is to become a martyr in the eyes of Allah. Meaning he kills himself and everyone else on the bus, making them martyrs too. This is just ONE possible explanation. Transferring your values to anyone but yourself is incorrect.

Please show me where the Army specifically addresses that there were no weapons found. I read a bunch of articles and the closest anyone comes is talking about civilians killed over the course of months. Like I said, the NYT talks about events SINCE LAST SUMMER. I am looking for a press release. Not 3rd party press. Also, I am not diverting anything. I've addressed everything you brought up, see below and read again. You read the first sentence of my first point and then stopped there... diverting attention. Practice what you preach.
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10:11 PM on 04/12/2010
"Ok, as simply as I can, the driver, while seeking a better afterlife, believes the easiest way to attain this is to become a martyr in the eyes of Allah. Meaning he kills himself and everyone else on the bus, making them martyrs too. This is just ONE possible explanation."

You clearly don't know ANYTHING about martyrdom. The last thing a martyr wants is his action mistaken for an accident.

"Please show me where the Army specifically addresses that there were no weapons found. "

Here you go, ONCE AGAIN:

"****not one of the dead was found to have been a threat****, military officials say."

Now try and answer my question or just shut up and go on the freeper site where you belong.
10:17 PM on 04/12/2010
Is there a language barrier? Same article:
"More than 30 people have been killed and 80 wounded in convoy and checkpoint **SHOOTINGS SINCE LAST SUMMER**, but not one of the people killed was found to have been a threat, military officials say." Simple english analysis shows the dependent clause modifying the phrase before it (denoted in caps).

Is that just your interpretation of martyrdom?
"The concept of martyrdom (shahada) in Islam can only be understood in the light of the Islamic concept of Holy Struggle (jihad) and the concept of jihad may only be appreciated if the concept of the doctrine of enjoining right and discovering wrong (al-amr bi'l-maruf) is properly appreciated, and good and bad, " (A. Ezzati, The Spread of Islam, (1976), p. 55).
Right and wrong, good and bad... mistake is never mentioned. Its about the individual's act and his relationship with Allah.
10:09 PM on 04/12/2010
Driver was sleepy and wasn't paying attention, or soldiers were sleepy and not paying attention, or both.

Article says it happened before dawn.

To me that means the darkest wee hours.
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10:18 PM on 04/12/2010
Read the article. Each and every witness backs the driver story. The bus was stopping when the soldiers fired on it.

Now tell us they're al "AI Qaeda" deliberately having their children kiIIed to make the American "heroes" look bad...
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09:40 PM on 04/12/2010
Direct from Baghdad, footage of Iraq vid children, family victims
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/12/families_of_victims_of_2007_us

This Is How These Soldiers Were Trained to Act”–Veteran of Military Unit Involved in 2007 Baghdad Helicopter Shooting Says Incident Is Part of Much Larger Problem

Former "Collateral Murder company" soldier speaks out
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/12/this_is_how_these_soldiers_were
wikileaks

STOP SPINNING. Permission to kill everyone in Iraq vid was asked for,and granted,BEFORE any mention of "RPG".

wikileaks
STOP SPINNING. Permission to kill everyone in iraq attack was asked for, and given, BEFORE apache crew saw reuters camera.”
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09:56 PM on 04/12/2010
"STOP SPINNING. Permission to kill everyone in Iraq vid was asked for,and granted,BEFORE any mention of "RPG"."

Not to mention that there's no proof whatsoever it was an actual RPG. The guy was most likely the photographer's assistant. The photographer was carrying a heavy 500mm lens. The tube you see is not an RPG, it's a TRIPOD CASE!!
10:14 PM on 04/12/2010
Take a few deep breaths and let this sink in Mandy:

The legality of their action is in no way dependent on your imaginary requirement that the soldiers 'prove' there was an rpg. You are just making that up. Maybe you wish that were the case. But it isn't.

No imaginary special super duper HD cameras are required.

Now breathe.

Stay relaxed.

And read it again:

The legality of their action is in no way dependent on your imaginary requirement that the soldiers 'prove' there was an rpg.

I'm not saying anyone has to like what happened.

As long as they thought they saw weapons - and especially an rpg, then they have the right to engage.
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11:04 PM on 04/12/2010
Why do you think Obama is continuing the occupation?
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08:51 PM on 04/12/2010
American soldiers are not vicious killers but so far I don't recall too many US military personnel suffering the consequences of any rape or killings in Iraq or Afghanistan. I mainly hear them being found not guilty by American courts.

I also did not like what I heard in the video tape of American soldiers killing civilians in Iraq. It went something like "......well that will teach them not to bring their kids to a war zone." The war zone? They did not ask for the war zone. Their country has been turned into a war zone by us. It was clear by what the American soldier said that he did not regard them (Iraqis) as equal humans to us. In a way he was justifying killing them in his mind. That's dangerous for the mental well being of American soldiers. We will have to deal with their issues upon their return to USA.
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09:12 PM on 04/12/2010
"American soldiers are not vicious kiIIers"

Not all, but some definitely are... Until Americans keep worshiping the military like a sacred altar, they'll be free to do whatever they want and they'll never be held accountable for their actions.
10:54 PM on 04/12/2010
if they started finding them guilty ,enlistment numbers would drop-they cant have that-got to keep morale up
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Acharn
08:51 PM on 04/13/2010
That's a consideration, I'm afraid, but you don't want to have undisciplined, sadistic thugs in the unit with you, either. They put you in even more danger, and can't be relied on when the shit hits the fan. The reason you don't see more stories bout convictions is the fault of the MSM. They're too lazy to dig information out, and the DOD doesn't hand out press releases about court martial results. I can't give you any hard numbers, but from my experience in a peace-time garrison environment in Germany and Thailand, and in Vietnam, I can assure you people are being convicted every month of serious crimes.
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Balzac
08:20 PM on 04/12/2010
For what it's worth, I offer my condolences to the civilians killed here, at the home of the police chief and the helicopter strike in Iraq.

The death of these Iraqi and Afghan civilians going about their daily lives is just as tragic as the deaths of the miners in West Virginia. We should mourn them.

Being aware of the human cost takes nothing away from the readiness of the military personnel to do their duty.

If Americans want to see an end to incidents like these, precautions must be taken, and justice must be done for the inexcusable choice of the last administration.
08:25 PM on 04/12/2010
That was beautifully said.
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Balzac
08:45 PM on 04/12/2010
I also offer my condolences to the families of those recently killed in the Harrier crash, and the other recent casualties suffered by our military personnel. We must remain grateful for their courage and always be aware of the stakes of their service. They risk their lives for our national security.
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Talab
I tot i taw a putty tat
09:44 PM on 04/12/2010
Very well said sir , i am a Vet but not Iraq , it was a long time ago , and these things do happen , but we can never become complacent about them . The truth is CYA wont cut it , the "investigation" needs to be real and with consequences or it will keep happening . I do salute those that stand up for us daily but there do have to be standards in how we act as soldiers or we do more harm to our country than good
01:09 AM on 04/13/2010
No arguments.