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Rachel Corrie, Aid Ship, Seized By Israel With No Resistance

KARIN LAUB   06/ 5/10 10:18 PM ET   AP

Israel Ship

JERUSALEM — A defiant Israel enforced its 3-year-old blockade of Hamas-ruled Gaza on Saturday, with naval commandos swiftly commandeering a Gaza-bound aid vessel carrying an Irish Nobel laureate and other activists and forcing it to head to an Israeli port instead.

The bloodless takeover stood in marked contrast to a deadly raid of another Gaza aid ship this week. However, it was unlikely to halt snowballing international outrage and demands that Israel lift or at least loosen the devastating closure that confines 1.5 million Palestinians to a small sliver of land and only allows in basic humanitarian goods.

For now, the confrontations at sea are likely to continue.

The organizers of Saturday's sail said they planned to dispatch as many as three more ships in coming months and that four captains already have volunteered for the missions.

"What Israel needs to understand is that nothing is accomplished with force," said Greta Berlin of the Cyprus-based Free Gaza group, which sent the latest aid vessel, the Rachel Corrie.

Israel said it would block any attempt to reach Gaza by sea, in order to prevent weapons from reaching the Iranian-backed Islamic militant group. "Israel ... will not allow the establishment of an Iranian port in Gaza," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said.

At the same time, Israel signaled Saturday it is considering easing the blockade, although officials provided no details. Israel and Egypt closed Gaza's borders after Hamas seized the territory three years ago from Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

Saturday's takeover of the 1,200-ton ship was over in minutes.

After trailing the vessel for six hours across the Mediterranean, Israeli commandos boarded it from speed boats around noon, in international waters about 20 miles (30 kilometers) from Gaza, and forced it to sail to the Israeli port of Ashdod.

Footage from an Israeli aircraft showed the passengers sitting quietly in two rows on the top deck. A man described by the Israeli military as the captain got up, raised his arms and walked toward the soldiers.

The military said the crew of the Rachel Corrie dropped down one of the ship's ladders to make it easier for the forces to board.

The activists could not be reached to describe the events because communication with the ship was cut during the operation. Berlin called the takeover an outrage.

The 11 passengers and eight crew members will be deported, although those who object will be detained and given a chance to appeal, officials said.

Those aboard included Mairead Corrigan, who won the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize for her work with Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, and the former U.N. humanitarian coordinator in Iraq, Denis Halliday.

Sabine Haddad, spokeswoman for the Israeli Interior Ministry, said that all 19 were being held at Israel's international airport Saturday night, and that eight agreed to leave voluntarily on Sunday. The remaining activists, including Corrigan and Halliday, were challenging the deportations, though Haddad said she expected some of them to change their mind and leave voluntarily.

While in radio contact, the Israeli navy officers addressed the boat as "Linda" – the vessel's name before it was renamed for Corrie, an American college student crushed to death by an Israeli army bulldozer during a 2003 Gaza protest.

Saturday's nonviolent operation came nearly a week after a chaotic takeover of a six-ship flotilla by Israel, also in international waters. In that confrontation, Israeli forces rappelled from a helicopter onto the deck of the Turkish lead ship, clashed with club-wielding activists awaiting them and at some point opened fire.

Eight Turks and a Turkish-American were killed, and a preliminary autopsy report released by Turkey Saturday said they were shot a total of 30 times. Of the nine, five were shot in the head and back, and one was shot from close range, the report said.

Israel said its forces acted in self-defense against what it described as Islamic extremists.

However, the outcry over the aid ships has been a public relations nightmare for Israel, while giving Hamas a welcome boost.

Northern Ireland's deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said Saturday the Rachel Corrie should have been allowed to reach Gaza "without Israeli aggression." In Stockholm, the Swedish dockworkers' union said it would persuade members not to service Israeli ships for a week, starting June 15.

In Tel Aviv, a demonstration marking the 43rd anniversary of Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza turned into a protest against the blockade. "The government is drowning all of us," a sign read. Another protest by thousands in Paris included a large parade-style float representing an aid ship.

The United States, Israel's closest ally, on Friday joined other nations in saying the blockade in its current form is not sustainable. An infuriated Turkey said it would minimize relations with Israel, once a close regional ally.

The blockade, meant to dislodge Hamas, initially enjoyed the tacit support of many in the international community. Under the restrictions, Israel bars virtually all exports and most imports, including construction supplies.

Critics say the restrictions have been counterproductive, strengthening Hamas, wiping out tens of thousands of jobs and hampering U.N.-led efforts to rebuild what was destroyed in Israel's war on Gaza 16 months ago.

Most commercial goods, along with cash and weapons, are now funneled through hundreds of Hamas-controlled smuggling tunnels under the Gaza-Egypt borders. With unemployment high, many Gazans cannot afford to buy the smuggled merchandise.

Israeli Cabinet minister Isaac Herzog told The Associated Press that Israel is talking to its allies about possibly easing the flow of goods to Gaza, but provided no details.

The Obama administration had adopted a gradual approach of persuading Israel to ease restrictions, but National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer said Friday the U.S. was working "urgently" with Israel, the Palestinian Authority and other international partners to find ways to bring more goods into Gaza.

Israel fears steel and cement can be diverted by Hamas for military use but has said it is willing to allow in limited shipments if aid agencies take responsibility. Hamas and other groups have fired thousands of rockets and mortars on Israeli border towns in recent years. The U.S. and Europe, like Israel, have branded Hamas a terrorist group.

The Rachel Corrie carried hundreds of tons of aid, including electric wheel chairs, medical supplies and cement. Israeli officials said the cargo was to be unloaded in Ashdod, and items permitted under blockade rules would be taken to Gaza by land. Cement could be shipped in if the U.N. takes delivery, officials said.

The Free Gaza group, which organized Saturday's sail and other attempts to break the Gaza embargo, said Saturday it was closing its Cyprus headquarters and relocating, but won't stop sending ships to challenge the blockade.

Israel has allowed ships through five times, but has blocked them from entering Gaza waters since December 2008.

The fate of the cargo of Monday's flotilla remained in limbo, apparently because of disputes between Hamas, the U.N. and the Turkish aid group that was the main sponsor over who should receive them in Gaza.

The Istanbul-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief said it has no immediate plans to send more ships and is still trying to get back the vessels Israel had seized. All six vessels of Monday's flotilla remain in the Ashdod port.

___

Associated Press Writers Diaa Hadid in Jerusalem, Karoun Demirjian in Ashdod and Selcan Hacaoglu in Istanbul contributed to this report.

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JERUSALEM — A defiant Israel enforced its 3-year-old blockade of Hamas-ruled Gaza on Saturday, with naval commandos swiftly commandeering a Gaza-bound aid vessel carrying an Irish Nobel laureate...
JERUSALEM — A defiant Israel enforced its 3-year-old blockade of Hamas-ruled Gaza on Saturday, with naval commandos swiftly commandeering a Gaza-bound aid vessel carrying an Irish Nobel laureate...
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09:53 PM on 06/29/2010
P2
Jwcmass:

Israeli terrorists .. should their families -- their wives, children, and fellow neighbors ALSO be punished under the law? – all terrorists must be punished. Arab, Israeli, Irish, etc. Families/neighbors sponsor terrorism? Punish all. Say NO to terrorism.

What you are arguing is for guilt by association – no, crime of aiding, abetting and incitement.

To punish an entire population IS ILLEGAL, and IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY! – South Africa sanctioned for apartheid. All South Africans punished. Guilty, not guilty, all punished by sanction. Legal. Not crime to humanity.

And it is immaterial to me what the British did -- as someone of Irish descent, I can tell you that there have been many instances of the British punishing the innocent. – Material to me. British got rid of terrorists menacing my folks.

In summary, you are struggling to find justification to punish innocent civilians of Gaza. – Not struggling. Gaza deserves punishment for sponsoring state-led terrorism.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
04:14 AM on 06/30/2010
corillo,

If you are going to punish someone -- and in defending this blockade you are, unless I am misunderstanding you, claiming that the entire population of Gaza is actively supporting Hamas.

under any rule of law in a western system of justice (and now under international law), before you can punish an INDIVIDUAL (not an entire people), you have to follow due process of law.

That involves a TRIAL, and presentation of evidence to support your claim that every single individual in Gaza (including every child, right down to every infant) is ACTIVELY supporting or committing acts of terrorism.

That is a LOT of trials (the population of the Gaza Strip is 1.5 million) and a high burden of proof that I don't think you could meet in any impartial courtroom.

That is the LAW. (Even with regard to terrorism and war). YOU CANNOT COLLECTIVELY PUNISH AN ENTIRE PEOPLE -- It is ILLEGAL, and may constitute crimes that are worse than even terrorism - Crimes against humanity. (Remember the only individual EVER executed in Israeli history. He wasn't a Palestinian Terrorist. I am talking, of course of Adolf Eichmann.)

And I want to make it very clear that I don't equivocate the actions of the Israeli government -- OR Hamas, with the crimes that man committed.

My point in bringing it up is that legally speaking, crimes against humanity are among the most serious of crimes.

ctd.
01:08 PM on 06/30/2010
Collective punishment is illegal under Article 33 GCIV. By 'collective punishment,' this rule means 'reprisal killings.' It has nothing to do with a maritime blockade.

The same Article prohibits acts of terrorism, which means no one is allowed to dress up as a civilian and blow up public property taking civilian lives with it. So delivering a bomb suicide-style is illegal as well.

Israel is at war with Hamas. This isn't a civil case where you wait years dragging each person once by one to court to sue them. When nations go to war, no one talks about law suits and prosecutions in court.

The concept of war and the concept of a criminal trial are two different things. One is where a citizen is charged in court for breaking the laws of the land. The other is a group of persons from another race/nation starting armed conflict with an entire nation, in this case the Jewish state of Israel.

Are you suggesting Israel should sue Gaza or at least press criminal charges against the Palestinians one by one? That would take aeons and in the meantime, acts of terrorism are being perpetrated by the Hamas-led government of Gaza against civilian targets in Israel.

Haven't you heard of the concept of war?
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
04:24 AM on 06/30/2010
Also, while there were sanctions against South Africa, there was no blockade of essential necessities of life.

There were economic sanctions, which did create economic hardship, but you really don't understand the situation if you think white South Africans suffered the hardships Israel has imposed on the people of Gaza.

I don't know what point you are making about the British, but it is not enough for a government ot punish the guilty. It MUST safeguard the rights and liberties of the innocent, and must follow DUE PROCESS OF LAW in determining the guilt of an accused person and then depriving them of their lives.

And during the years of the British Empire this CERTAINLY was not the case. Even British Americans revolted against what they saw as tyranny, and they had lesser cause to revolt than did the Irish, the Indians, the Native Americans, Africans, (etc. etc. etc.)

And I believe in what Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration,-- when a government becomes destructive of the rights it has a duty to safeguard, it is the RIGHT and DUTY of the people to alter or abolish it.

I do NOT believe in violence, but I DO believe in nonviolent noncompliance with Israeli Occupation. Blocking (with their bodies if they have to) roads to illegal settlements, making every nonviolent effort to break an illegal blockade, blocking every attempt to destroy a Palestinian home or eviction.

In short, make it impossible for Israel to maintain the occupation.
01:19 PM on 06/30/2010
You may not believe in violence but Thomas Jefferson and America's founding fathers sure did and that's why the US has the 'right to bear arms' as a constitutional right.

America did not gain its independence from the British by sipping tea and playing noughts and crosses with the Empire. They fought with guns and cannons and about 25,000 American revolutionaries got killed in battle and another 25,000 seriously wounded/disabled.

The irony is in order to exist, Americans had to 'occupy' and 'dispossess' the native Americans.

You wanna give back the land now and go back to Ireland?
09:51 PM on 06/29/2010
P3
Jwcmass:

This blockade could have been carried out with the intent of simply preventing the delivery of weapons. – Israeli decision on parameters of intent. Not yours, not mine.

The goal, however, is NOT one of self-defense, but of collective punishment – good to punish rocket-smugglers, bus-bombers and suicide-attackers. 100% support. Sorry though for kids whose parent smuggle rockets, bomb buses and suicide-kill neighbors.

It is illegal, immoral, ineffective (Hamas has been able to get 5,000 rockets in despite the blockade) – w/o blockade, maybe 5 million rockets instead, maybe entire Israel bombed to smithereens. So blockade successful. Maybe need tougher blockade to cut smuggled rockets down to 500.

Can't eliminate the nagging feeling I have that the Israeli government's purpose all along has been to strengthen Hamas, so Israel has an excuse to avoid making the sacrifices needed to make peace – can’t blame Israel not comfortable to make peace with cunning old enemy trying to capture Jerusalem.

Netanyahu knows if he makes the concessions on the settlements, his government would likely fall ... may be kicking the can down the road. – can’t blame guy for wanting to keep job.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
04:34 AM on 06/30/2010
Yes I CAN blame "a guy' for wanting to keep his job.

A political leader is supposed to be just that -- a LEADER. That means making the tough decisions that may cost you your job.

I can also do what I can to persuade my Representative and Senators from enabling this collective punishment with my tax dollars.

And as I said above, (quoting the ideas of Thomas Jefferson, especially appropriate this week) when the evidence is clear (and the evidence is abundantly clear in this case) that the government of Israel's policies have been oppressive of the rights and liberties of the Palestinians, then the Palestinians have the right and duty to oppose them.

Now our founders believed that this included the right of insurrection --- of taking up arms.

But I am opposed ot violence in principle, and I also think it would be more effective for the Palestinians to resist their Occupation by every nonviolent means available. Make occupation so costly to the Israelis that they will finally see the wisdom of ending it.

Block homes that have been illegally occupied by settlers. Allow the squatters to leave, but no one to enter. Block the apartheid roads. Nothing gets into the settlements. Israel would be forced to drag thousands away.

And if the Palestinians ever got this organized, Israel would not have the means to imprison everyone.

It is already starting to happen, and even many Israelis are participating.
03:22 PM on 06/26/2010
jwcmass:

'But the decision was made ... by Israel AND western powers, to punish the Palestinians for voting in a way that they didn't like!'

If you vote for someone who wants to kill me, don't blame me for taking steps to restrain you.

'But the west, which insisted on the election in the first place .... doesn't have the right to punish the Palestinian people for the choice they made.'

You're asked to choose a rep who will negotiate for your rights to live IN PEACE with your neighbor. But if you insist on choosing a rep who wants to KILL your neighbor, don't blame others for abhorring your decision.

'That is how democracy works -- you have to live with the results.'

Mad men with murderous intents have come into power through all kinds of means - through the ballot box, military coups, sheer manipulation and ingratiating oneself with kingmakers. Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, CeauÅŸescu -- the world doesn't have to put up with it. We don't have to live with genocidal bullies, especially ones cunning enough to use 'democracy' to grab power.

'Collective Punishment IS ILLEGAL!'

So it is. But the Gaza blockade is not collective punishment.

'Worse, 50% of Gazans are under 15 .... more than 50% of the population that DIDN'T EVEN VOTE!'

Adults make political decisions, not kids. The political decisions have ramifications that affect kids. Short of removing these kids from their parents, there's no getting around this problem.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
04:23 PM on 06/26/2010
corillo,

Of course there is a way to get around the problem. LIFT THE BLOCKADE!

You accuse Hamas of wanting to go to war, and how evil that is, but you fail to see that a blockade is every bit an act of war as launching a rocket!!

Israel went to war in 1967 over a blockade, and that blockade was far from complete: Israel's Mediterranean ports were unaffected. Yet Israel saw it as an act of war, no different from an invasion.

Yet this blockade isn't about stopping rockets: -- it has been about preventing all but a trickle of humanitarian aid from getting through. And the ones suffering the most isn't Hamas -- they have demonstrably benefitted from it. The ones most afflicted have been the very young -- the most innocent of all the residents of Gaza!

You are failing to see that the blockade isn't preventing weapons from getting in -- the head of Shin Bet admitted as much. (He has stated that Hamas now has 5,000 rockets!)

Instead the blockade is about punishing innocent people. So the policy has been both ineffective AND immoral and illegal.

Frankly it is a STUPID policy, since such punishment only leads to more resentment and anger.

ctd.
10:41 AM on 06/27/2010
Of course the blockade is an act of war. That's why any 'activist' attempting to breach it is considered an 'enemy combatant.'
11:49 AM on 06/27/2010
'Instead the blockade is about punishing innocent people..'

What does 'innocent' mean?

A man who wishes his neighbor no harm. A man wants to live in peace with his neighbors. A man who sorts out disagreements with his neighbors using peaceful means - sitting down to talk, negotiating, being a good listener.

The innocent man does not send rockets into people's homes, children's schools, neighbor's backyards. He does not get into a bus strapped with explosives. He does not support political parties who vows to kill his neighbors. He does not sing cruel songs about old ancestors who brutalized his neighbors' forefathers. He does not teach his children to hate someone just because they are of another race. He does not gang up with other guys to jump his neighbor in the dark. He does not buy guns from arms smugglers and lie in wait for his neighbor.

He is not arrogant. He is not violent. He does not tell lies.
He loves his neighbor as himself.

That's an innocent man.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
04:33 PM on 06/26/2010
p2

Let me put it to you this way. Here's a hypothetical scenario to consider:

Suppose the US changed its policy and decided that the illegal settlements, and the activities of the IDF were so outrageous that the only policy was to completely blockade Israel -- not allowing ANYTHING but a tricke of food and medicine in, and also bombed Israel's military to render it ineffective. And in the process, killed a lot of Israelis, and caused conditions of great hardship by the depravation of basic necessities of life.

Let's for a moment reflect on what the effect would be on Israeli children, if they had no materials to rebuild destroyed homes. Little potable water was available, and malnutrition was rampant.

And lets take it one step further and say that the US justified this action because the Israeli people elected a far right government committed to expanding illegal settlements, and thus unwilling to recognize a Palestinian state.

How do you think Israel would react? Would they have a right to defend itself? Should it just meekly submit? Should the people of Israel be punished for the crimes of its government and military?

Now would you have more sympathy for Israeli children than the children of Gaza? don't BOTH have the same rights to adequate food, water, shelter, medical care?
11:28 AM on 06/27/2010
Matters not an iota if the US changes its mind on supporting Israel.

The fact stands Gaza is in the hands of Hamas and Hamas is threatening to annihilate Israel. This is immoral and reprehensible.

This isn't about Israel not recognizing a Palestinian state. There is no Palestinian state to speak of. It's about Arabs not recognizing the Jewish state of Israel.

Israel exists. It has existed for thousands of years, with a line of kings and rulers than can be traced through written history and archaeology, and the modern-day state of Israel gained its independence in 1948.

Palestinians are Arabs, mainly from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. There is no such thing as the Arabic kingdom of Palestine. The Arabs have more than enough lands and territories and it is bullying and unethical of them to attempt to force the Jewish people out of the Middle East by using this fiction of a 'Palestinian race.'

Arafat and Zahir Muhsin spoke the truth there is no such thing as a 'Palestinian.' They admitted openly Arabs were just using this tactic to force the Jewish people out of Jerusalem and ultimately, out of the region.

Children's rights to food, water and shelter are often affected by the unwise decisions of their parents.
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11:17 PM on 06/23/2010
The Political Observers raised a new question that though in fights among all religions is prevalent, even fighting is there between religious people of different religions. But different religious people live in side by side countries,. Even though there are skirmishes with one another often and on yet they are living side by side for centuries. However, they do not pose threat to one another like that of Israel.

First they were ousted from their original country, when they occupied others land and impose on them their might on what right? .Secondly why the JEWS cannot live with people in peace not only with Muslims but also with Christians and even within themselves. Lastly why is this that this JEW community is hated by the people in whichever country they are living, Consult the US State Department's report on it. It also states that in recent days Hate rate has increased. WHY? Answer.
11:20 AM on 06/19/2010
jwcmass,

‘The head of Shin Bet just stated that his assessment is that Hamas has 5,000 rockets in Gaza.’

Yes, Yuval Diskin has also just stated easing the blockade would be disastrous to Israel. Shin Beit security’s chief doesn’t want a repeat of Israel’s mistake with Lebanon where easing grips has lead to Hezbollah arming itself to the teeth. So while assessing Hamas has 5,000 rocket, Shin Beit is also clear it wants the blockade on Gaza intact and strong.

Mousab Youssef, son of Hamas’s leader Hassan Youseff calls his father movement ‘arrogant and evil’ so it’s misleading to keep proclaiming Gazans ‘innocent’ while they continue to indiscriminately support Hamas.

Regarding ‘the Occupation’ breeding ‘extremism’ among Palestinians, that’s a theory with as many holes as a colander. Iran isn’t occupied. Pakistan isn’t occupied. And yet the world has problems containing extremists being produced by these states.

As for Israel being an apartheid state, I’d like to see how Arab states welcome Jewish settlements within their own borders. How about Iran? How about Turkey - last we heard they weren't too kind to the Kurds and Armenians? How about Kyrgyzstan - the Kyrgyz won't even accept their fellow Sunni Muslims, the Uzbeks, will they accept Jewish folk?
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
12:01 AM on 06/23/2010
corillo,

I fail to see how the blockade can be called a success in any way, shape, or form.

As I have said, I have no problems with trying to keep weapons out-- the problem is with the list of other items not allowed in-- which IS collective punishment.

Also, you cannot blame the entire population of Gaza for the crimes of Hamas.

As I and others have pointed out SEVERAL times, 50% of the population is under the age of 15 -- and there is NO way you can claim they are responsible for Hamas being in power.

Ironically, Iran has a small population of Jews, and they are treated better than the Palestinians. They certainly aren't treated any worse than the remainder of the Iranian population.

The words "apartheid state" are those of Israel's own defense minister, Ehud Barak -- and he said that was where Israel is headed if there is no peace agreement. That or the other result will be that Israel will become a single state with a Palestinian majority -- the idea of a Jewish state will become obsolete.

You also don't seem to realize that it is occupation that directly led to the creation of BOTH Hezbollah AND Hamas. (It was also the location of American bases in Saudi Arabia which led to al Qaeda deciding to attack the US -- and bear in mind that the US TRAINED the leaders of al Qaeda in the tactics of terrorism. You have heard of
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
12:09 AM on 06/23/2010
To deny the reality of what the occupation has done, and the extremism it has bred is simply to be out of touch with reality.

If I were to deliberately try to foment extremism and create terrorists, I could not think of a better way to do it than in Israel's handling of the Gaza Strip.

When you deprive people of their basic rights: when you destroy their homes, terrorize and kill their children, when you deprive them of basic necessities such as medical supplies and food and water (or keep the level of such at BARELY subsistence levels), when you create a virtual prison from which there is no escape, when you deprive them of means to earn a living, when you in effect, have your "boot on their neck" then one shouldn't be surprised or shocked when some strike back in anger.

The children don't need Hamas propaganda. They have eyes with which to see, and they have seen their friends, or siblings, or parents killed, when they are terrified because of intense bombardment (and they don't have bomb shelters to retreat to) WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT TO GET AS A REACTION?

Now I am not saying that Israel alone is responsible for this. Hamas (ironically created with the help of Israel) bears its share of the responsibility, as does Egypt, and as does the US -- since we enable the acts of injustice and war crimes of members of the Israeli government and IDF.

ctd.
11:10 PM on 06/10/2010
jwcmass:

‘Now I have a natural instinct that tells me that when a government ....seizes all evidence and DOESN'T want an investigation, that government PROBABLY has something to hide....'

You’ve been watching too many X-Files episodes.

In the real world, when we break the law and are arrested or detained, everything on our person is confiscated.

This is standard operating procedure.

It doesn’t matter if you’re a journalist or Nobel Prize winner. In a a riot, a skirmish, a person can say, ‘I’m the Queen of England’ and still be breaking the law.

Cops and soldiers don’t care. You riot or attack a solider or cop, everything on you will be confiscated. US does this, EU states do this, Asian countries to this, Arab authorities (Hamas included) do this.

Now the flotilla gang told the Israeli navy they’re breaking blockade. This is announcing intention to engage in an act of war.

When the navy comes to intercept, there is a violent skirmish. This is war, also criminal behavior.

So the flotilla is detained, everyone is arrested, all possessions confiscated.

Why? Authorities will sieve through everything to see who has broken the law and if the offences are serious enough to warrant criminal charges.

Those activists are lucky Israel decided to just spit them out. They could've been kept under lock and key for a long time while the Public Prosecutor works out the case for criminal prosecution.

Your 'natural instinct' is misguided paranoia.
10:38 PM on 06/13/2010
Ya don't say!
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
02:02 AM on 06/15/2010
Corillo,

Once again, you are missing the point. I mistrust political power, because I have seen it abused all too often. It is one of the reasons Samuel Adams is my avatar (besides being from Massachusetts).

He STRONGLY mistrusted overweening governmental power, and strongly believed in citizen participation to check that power.

THough he lived before Lord Acton said it, he would have agreed, as I do with his famous quote,
"All power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

The other founders knew this as well. This is way they crafted a government with separation of powers. Checks and balances.

But it is not foolproof. We KNOW the government lied to us over Vietnam, -- even to the point of fabricating an event (The Gulf of Tonkin Incident) which LBJ used to deceive congress into authorizing him to use any military force.

More recently, we have the whole (and largely covered up) crimes centered around the use of torture.

I doubt we will EVER really know how vast this program was, but I can assure you there is strong evidence this policy was approved at the highest level of government, and was approved and implemented by high ranking officers in the military and the Intelligence Agencies.

Yet the only ones ever brought to trial were low level enlistees who served at Abu Ghraib.

We are talking about serious war crimes that were committed. I am not talking about foolish "Area 51" nonsense.

Still think I am paranoid?
02:43 AM on 06/16/2010
Short answer: yes

Long answer: be suspicious, mistrust government power all you like .... a healthy cynicism is a good thing, but don't be a kook. Don't be ignorant. Especially about police procedures and army procedures. Cops and soldiers are charged with protecting the country and they act within a framework of laws and regulations. These regulations and laws are fairly rigid. Why? Because these guys have been given the duty of shooting to kill just to protect us. The flotilla discussion is firstly a micro discussion, and then a macro one. Micro means you look at the case, the facts surrounding it, decide if the soldiers and activists acted right or wrong. You mix up and micro and the macro, you're just gonna spin round and round. A simple question of why the activists' stuff have been confiscated will become a five-hour discourse on the Magna Carta and the Boston Tea Party. Painful, dude.
10:58 PM on 06/10/2010
jwcmass:

‘…not one IDF soldier died, yet 9 passengers .. did. Something smells rotten.’

You have an idea in your head in order for a conflict to be legal or moral, the same number of people must die on each side.

This is nonsense. As in 'making no sense.'

Haven’t you ever heard people say, ‘I hope the good guys win?’

Decent and moral folks desire good guys to defeat bad guys. Many times, to defeat bad guys, good guys have to kill. If there are lots and lots of dead bad guys, it doesn't mean good guys are 'evil.'

More dead Palestinians doesn't mean Israelis are ‘evil.’ It just means one side is better at winning.

In the Marmara case, we have to decide who did wrong. Without being distracted by 'outside facts' like soccer and Hebron grafitti.

Why? 'Cos lots of folks accuse Israel of evil and want to lynch all the soldiers who opened fire.They want blood for revenge.

Now you must put yourself in the Marmara guy’s shoes.

If I did everything he did – announced on Arab/Turkish ‘I’m ready for martyrdom,’ chant ‘Khaybar!’, tell the navy ‘Go to Auschwitz!’, pull out metal bar, chair, knife and attack soldier …if I did all these, is it wrong for me to expect the soldier to open fire?

I’m saying it’s not wrong. If I did all these things, I can expect a soldier to shoot me. The soldier acted lawfully.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
02:13 AM on 06/15/2010
corillo,

You would have a better case if those ships were carrying Kassam rockets.

But they were not. They were carrying humitarian supplies only.

And we have an Israeli Prime Minister who openly insults the intelligence of his audience by lying so brazenly "There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza." (Rather like saying, "who are you going to believe, me? Or your lyin' eyes?"

So Netanyahu with that one line loses ALL credibility with me (to be honest, he hasn' really had any with me for a long time. I remember his presence and speeches at rallies where then Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was depicted as an SS officer. Those rallies, and the use of such images, amounted to an incitement to assassination -- which is just what happened. And the fact that a senior politician lent his presence and prestige to such an event is indefensible and grotesque. So as I said, I think I have had the measure of Netanyahu for a long time. And I don't say that lightly.)

Netanyahu prides himself on his knowledge of the US and his facility with English. I think he takes us for fools if he thinks he can get away with a whopper like "There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza"

Frankly, he is losing his touch.

Even from an Israeli perspective, this raid was botched, both politically and tactically, and already the accusations are flying among the Israeli government, the IDF brass, and the Israeli Navy.
02:33 AM on 06/16/2010
Read my reply to Ralph Boyd, just beneath this. He thinks it's about 'humanitarian supplies' too. You wanna be paranoid? Be paranoid about Trojan horses and don't forget this bit of advice from the sages: 'Be careful of Greeks who come bearing gifts.'
08:51 PM on 06/20/2010
jwcmass,

'Netanyahu prides himself on his knowledge of the US and his facility with English. I think he takes us for fools if he thinks he can get away with a whopper like "There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza." Frankly, he is losing his touch...'

Before calling Netanyahu a liar, I think you should study this statement published in the UK Telegraph on June 5, 2010:

'Hamas officials concede that the blockade has not caused a humanitarian crisis in its classic sense. "There is no starvation in Gaza," said Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Hamas's ministry of justice. "No-one has died of hunger."'

Coming from Khalil Hamada, this is strong corroboration indeed to Netanyahu's assertions.

I strongly agree with you we should send independent investigators into Gaza. Let the whole world in and let's have a look if the Internationational Solidarity Movement has been reporting honestly and factually the situation in Gaza. The ISM is claiming a 'humanitarian crisis' which Hamas now refutes. What the heck is going on? We better nail this down before we toss in another penny for the flotilla.
02:56 AM on 06/08/2010
jwcmass:

'To me the best solution is this: Israel stops and inspects each ship AS IT ENTERS TERRITORIAL WATERS.'

Israel agrees with you too. It's called: Please Take Your Ship To Ashdod.

Man, you've given me the best laugh today.

Ashdod IS 'territorial waters.' That's the whole point of the navy directing the flotilla to Ashdod. TO BE INSPECTED by Israeli authorities who have the proper facilities and the crew to do the job.

It's crazy to ask the navy to inspect the flotillas with 100,000 tonnes of cargo and 700 passengers in the middle of the ocean, crazy.

What happens if there's a storm? Everyone's green in the face and you're rummaging about for contraband? What happens if a weapons cache is really found and a gunfight starts in the middle of the ocean? (It may not be the Free Gaza guys but another flottilla from another 'humanitarian group' might do this, who knows?)

Hey, if the Marmara was so willing to be inspected 'in territorial waters' -- why pull soldiers down into the boat and start beating them up?
That's not how you greet an inspector!

Ok, here's Lesson One for your proposed curriculum on teaching activists how to behave on flotillas in the future:

DO NOT PULL SOLDIER OFF RAPPEL OR HIT HIM WITH METAL BAR.

(ROFL)
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Ralph Boyd
Look, . . right behind you!
04:33 AM on 06/08/2010
The purpose of the flotilla was to alleviate the humanitarian crises with goods Israel doesn't allow like cement, building materials, and seeds. Those items offloaded likely won't reach Gaza until Israel has a change of heart.

Not that it matters. Thanks to Netanyahu's strategic blunder those items are now flowing through the Egyptian side of the border so I guess they were successful. Hamas can probably use their smuggling tunnels for weapons now, and Egypt can't stop it without destabilizing their domestic situation thanks to Israel's show of force on the high seas.

Congratulations, you stopped a humanitarian aid flotilla Israel is sooo much safer.
07:58 PM on 06/08/2010
'Humanitarian?'

Here. In the words of the flotilla leaders:

"The only illegal presence in the area is Israel... This mission is NOT ABOUT DELIVERING HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES, it's about breaking Israel's siege..." (Greta Berlin, May 27, 2010, AFP).

'The purpose of the Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla was to literally break the Israeli blockade ... even if we take Israel’s word at it that Gaza is not a humanitarian crisis ....we still have the basic fundamental question of the freedom of the people of the Gaza to come and go, to pursue education and work opportunities... (Adam Shapiro, PBS, 31 May 2010).

“Our goal was to break the blockade on Gaza ... Israel tried to carry out a provocative military action....†(Hanan Zuabi, Iran PressTV, 2 Jun 2010)
.

You've been lied to. This isn't about supplies. It's about politics, about taking sides in a war.

Flotilla organizers used the 'humanitarian' bait to recruit a lot of people onto the flotilla. It worked.

Not many people realized they've been used.

These organizers view Hamas as benign, yet Hamas is an organization with genocidal tendencies. Its manifesto vows to destroy Jews and wage war against Israel until Israel ceases to exist. Berlin states unequivocally Israel's presence in the Middle East is 'illegal.' Doesn't this tell you something?
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
02:06 PM on 06/08/2010
I find it hard to be amused when 9 people are dead. Dead because of what even the IDF considers a bungled operation.

But I don't think you got my point.

What I am saying is that ANY ship approaching the shore of Gaza isn't stopped UNTIL it crosses the 3 mile limit. That is where Territorial Waters begin.

Beyond that point, a ship is in INTERNATIONAL WATERS, and any attempt to board (unless it is an Israeli flagged vessel is an act of piracy.

If you read more carefully, I stated that such ships should NOT be towed to an Israeli harbor.

If the Israeli Navy is incapable of conducting a search at sea, then they can simply escort the ship to a NEUTRAL port for examination.

This isn't rocket science. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US Navy was prepared to board and inspect ships as they approached the blockade line. (I might also point out that a) the cargo was much more dangerous; we're talking about nuclear missiles and warheads, and b) the US had the backing of the Organization of American States, so the US was NOT acting unilaterally, and C) the US took its case to the UN and proved to the world the existence of missiles in Cuba.

ctd.
08:07 PM on 06/08/2010
'Beyond that point, a ship is in INTERNATIONAL WATERS, and any attempt to board (unless it is an Israeli flagged vessel is an act of piracy.'

Who told you this is the meaning of 'piracy?'

I don't know which country you come from but where I live, and I don't live in Israel, the navy regularly patrols our waters -- territorial and extra-territorial -- and it has the authority to chase down, board and capture any vessel which is breaking the law.

Breaking the law means: smuggling, illegal fishing, breaching a maritime blockade, hijacking other vessels for loot and ransom (now that's piracy), etc.

Nobody, and I mean, nobody, dares to accuse our navy of piracy.

Where do you live? Gaza?
09:55 PM on 06/07/2010
I was really heartened to see this video the other day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjE_7uwA0I&feature=youtube_gdata

A young guy stands against a crowd of enraged pro-Palestinian protesters in Los Angeles.

The video is very telling.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
10:48 PM on 06/07/2010
Well, a few things.

First of all the video mistranslated the phrase: "Allahu akbar" does NOT mean "Allah is the greater God" -- it means "God is great"

Allah comes from the same root as the Hebrew "elohim" -- both mean "God"

Secondly, no one was physically attacked, and while some of the pro-Palestinian demonstrators were quite vocal, I noticed some of the organizers attempting to restrain their behavior when it became excessive.

Look, people hold strong views on this issue. There is going to be lots of disagreement. (Truth be told, I've seen more vocal meetings of the Israeli Knesset, where it is a regular practice to heckle whoever is speaking).

But while some opinions were strongly expressed, at least they were SPOKEN, and it never got physical.

I was also impressed by the professionalism of the police.

Although I would have set up areas for the demonstrators, so they wouldn't come into contact with each other. That is the usual tactic employed for crowd control.

So you would have one group of protesters on one side of the street, and the others on the opposite side.

And certainly not have them crossing the street back and forth.

The biggest danger the young Jewish man faced was that he could have been struck by the car he was passing in front of.
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jgarbuz
12:09 AM on 06/08/2010
God bless that young man. He is a Jew with honor and courage, which few of us Jews today can say about ourselves, unfortunately.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
01:00 AM on 06/08/2010
I would include ANYONE who peacably expresses their views.

That is the strength of a democracy.

Unfortunately in Israel expressing dissent is becoming more difficult. That should be a warning bell to anyone who cares about the future of Israeli democracy.
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RonRutherford
07:53 PM on 06/07/2010
Looks like this ship was treated more humanely than the IDF treated Rachel Corrie in the flesh. I truly wish more Americans knew her story... imagine how a 60 minutes story dedicated to her could change public perception of Pro-Palestinian activists profoundly.

http://therationalreport.blogspot.com/
07:30 PM on 06/07/2010
Seems like a lot of liberals who have been advocating ‘militant humanitarian interference’ are having second thoughts as a result of the Marmara tragedy.

On the issue, one ‘philosopher’ writes this:

'For a man like me, someone who takes pride in having helped invent, with others, the principle of this kind of symbolic action ... for a militant of humanitarian interference and the media fuss that goes with it, this pathetic saga has something of a caricature, a gloomy grimace of destiny.'

What exactly is he regretting one wonders?

Wasn't the Free Gaza flotilla 'militant' enough? Did they 'interfere' enough in destabilizing what is already a very unstable region? Wasn't the ensuing 'media fuss' which saw the world baying for Israel's blood intense enough?

Or is this a case of Dr Frankenstein regretting his monster?

One wonders if these liberals actually feel sorrow for their own culpability in sending innocents and the gullible into the clutches of extremists.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
08:46 PM on 06/07/2010
Perhaps he is regretting the loss of life. Shouldn't we all?

One misconception of nonviolent movements is that there will be no violence.

However, that is not the case.

In the American Civil Rights movements, while the activists practiced nonviolence, those who disagreed with them certainly didn't.

Many civil rights workers were attacked, many were killed.

It also takes tremendous discipline NOT to react when one is attacked, as the people on the large ship were. Most movements of this type do extensive training to teach the participants how to react. Because one has to go against the instinct to protect oneself.

As I recall, no IDF soldiers died, yet several of those on board the ship DID, some were shot multiple times; some were shot in the back-- a rather unusual place to be shot if one is attacking.

Usually, when one is shot in the back, that indicates they are trying to run away -- to get away from the attack.

Of course the only way to get at the truth of exactly what happened is to hold an inquiry. If the Israeli government has nothing to fear or hide, then lets get on with it.
09:55 PM on 06/07/2010
'.... some were shot multiple times; some were shot in the back-- a rather unusual place to be shot if one is attacking.Usually, when one is shot in the back, that indicates they are trying to run away -- to get away from the attack.'

Murderers, armed robbers, rapists and all kinds of criminals have been 'shot in the back' while attempting to escape arrest.

Been 'shot in the back' is not the way to tell is someone is innocent of violent behavior. All it says is, 'Dang, the fella tried to run away!' that's all.

The idea of the inquiry is great. The only setback is who will sit on the investigating committee. That's another headache. Put an Arab in there, he'd lynch Israel for sure. Put an American in there, well ... the way things are going, the American might lynch Israel too! Even Helen Thomas, a seasoned veteran journalist, lost her head this time, so emotive is the issue, and told Israel to 'go back to Poland/Germany...'

Given the state of everyone's emotions, Israel is making the right decision. You'd do the same in her shoes.
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
01:41 PM on 06/07/2010
"The activists could not be reached to describe the events because communication with the ship was cut during the operation. "

Yep. Always a move that needs to be taken by just governments.
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jgarbuz
02:47 PM on 06/07/2010
America fights for fun. Israel fights to survive. It hasn't time for the niceties that come with being huge, powerful and spoiled like America is.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
04:51 PM on 06/07/2010
I don't think a lot of US veterans would appreciate your categorization that America "fights for fun"

There are too many Americans who have died for what you consider "fun"

It is true that the last Administration began a war in Iraq that was completely unnecessary, and we rather stumbled into Vietnam, failing to recognize a war of national liberation, instead seeing it exclusively through the lens of the Cold War.

We are far from perfect. We make many mistakes.

But having a war for "fun" is not among them, and I find the remark incredibly ignorant and offensive -- especially for the familes of all who died, the casualties on BOTH sides of these wars, and for those who have suffered grievous injuries.

As superpowers go, when one looks at history, the US is one of the more reluctant nations to go to war.

If your understanding of Israel and the Palestinians is as superficial as your understanding of Americans, then I would say you need to do some research.

I try very hard to not engage in personal attacks or criticisms, jgarbuz, choosing instead to focus on the ideas being presented.

But the ignorance and prejudice and sweeping generalizations about peoples that I have seen in your posts in this thread are just too much to ignore.


To ignore them would imply an implicit agreement with them.

Please, PLEASE try to find more objective sources for your research.
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atlantis1star
SGC Atlantis
07:10 PM on 06/07/2010
Did the Jews take the cement and send it to the West Bank so they can build more illegal settelments?
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dlivtx
12:47 PM on 06/07/2010
They forgot to mention who else was on that ship. Joe Meadors was a survivor of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 in which 34 Americans were killed and 170 were injured.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/4/43_years_after_surviving_israeli_attack

It seems like everyone wants to forget this. Israel got away with attacking the US Navy in international waters 40 years ago which gave them the "authority" to attack other ships in international waters today. What they are doing is piracy plain and simple. When you board another ship without permission in international waters you are being a pirate or you are committing an act of war. Israel is not exempt from this. The world needs to remind them of this before it gets out of hand.
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jgarbuz
02:41 PM on 06/07/2010
Well, the US should investigate why the NSA was spying on Israel in wartime, and come clean about it. Maybe the US was embarrassed that was apying on an "ally" who was fighting all alone against 3 Arab armies. Of course, if ISrael had changed its name to South Korea, Kuwait, or South Vietnam, US marines would have come ashore to fight alongside the IDF "allies." But since the name of the country is Israel, and it happens to be Jewish, better to spy on them and see what the sneaky Jew are up to this time fighting all alone against 3 Soviet-supplied Arab armies.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
02:57 PM on 06/07/2010
With Jonathan Pollard sitting in a US jail for ILLEGAL espionage, I would not bring up the topic of spying on one's allies, especially if that ally is the one who gives Israel all that money.


Regarding the activity of the Liberty, there is nothing illegal about sitting in International Waters and monitoring events. The Soviets did this regularly with "fishing vessels" all throughout the Cold War. -- The US never attacked them.

And the NSA can grab things out of the air (literally, since most communications are sent via satellite).

But one MUST remember the context.


You see the conflict between Israel and her neighbors. The main concern for the US was the activity of the Soviet Union (remember, most of the major wars occcured during that time). There was more than one occasion during those conflicts when the US and the Societ Union cam close to clashing over a Israeli-Arab war.

That, I would surmise, was the main pre-occupation with the US, and thus was the primary reason the Liberty was stationed where it was.

I don't know enough about the incident to comment on it with any certitude, but my educated guess, based on the information I know, is that it was an accident, an incident of "friendly fire" -- which happens more often than people think in time of war, when people are lost in the "fog of war"

So on this, given what I know, I give Israel the benefit of the doubt.
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jgarbuz
10:58 AM on 06/07/2010
This is a 90 year old war, going on since 1920, and nothing else. And a huge part of any war is propaganda. Those who believe that Palestine is Arab land stolen by "phony" Jews will always be on one side of the conflict, and those who believe that the Land of Israel is Jewish land that was occupied by Arabs, and the Jewish people have the right to resettle it, are on the other side of this conflict. Nothing has changed since 1920. The Jews got a state. but the Arab side refuses to compromise and accept its right to exist.

Everything else is just blah blah blah.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
01:40 PM on 06/07/2010
jgarbuz,

You are creating a false dichotomy. you are presenting two false versions of history.

No one who seriously looks at the Jews who immigrated to Israel as "phony" (I am not even sure what you mean by such a statement-- what do YOU mean by "phony" -- that they weren't religious?)

But land WAS stolen - THAT HAPPENED. Hundreds of Palestinian villages WERE destroyed --I've seen some of the remains.

And other Palestinians lost their homes to new Jewish immigrants. IT HAPPENED. You can live in denial all you want, but, as John Adams said, "Facts are stubborn things"

Your other version of history is problematic also. You state that "Jewish land" was "occupied by Arabs"

Again, what does that MEAN? Are you claiming that the entire land of Israel "belonged to Jews" (and WHICH JEWS? Who held the deeds?) and was OCCUPIED BY "ARABS"


What REALLY happened was that the Palestinians have been living alongside a small Jewish population for CENTURIES. As far as POLITICAL SOVEREIGNTY, for most of the last 400 years, the land was OCCUPIED by the Ottoman Empire, then by the British.

At this point the story gets complicated. After the UN declared a "partition" (on what legal basis I have yet to hear -- it was never UN land) and Israel declared statehood.

There was a war, and then the land was divided. Most of the Palestinians who lived and owned land in what is now Israel were driven from their homes or land.
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jgarbuz
02:57 PM on 06/07/2010
Well, by "phony" I meant the usual charges that Jews are really all Khazar Turkic converts from the steppes of Central Asia, or whatever new nonsense the enemy propaganda will come up with next.

What happened was that the Council of the League of Nations in 1920 approved the restoration of a "Jewish National Home" in Palestine, and gave Jews the right to return and resettle the Jewish National Home. The San Remo conference text of the 1922 Mandate can easily be found and downloaded and read in ten minutes flat. The League of Nations did not ignore that various other groups of non-Jews were inhabiting the land, but it chose to return it to the Jewish nation in exile. So no matter how you want to interpret history, the return of this narrow piece of former Ottoman territory to Jewish sovereignty became international law, just as many other rulings of the League of Nations still remain law to this day.

The Arabs renounced and refused to accept the Mandate and 25 years of struggle, terrorism, and war ensued with the British catching it from both sides. Finally, in 1946 the Brits announced their intentions to give up the Mandate and dropped the whole ball of wax on top of the newly created United Nations that had replaced the now defunct League. In the end, the UN Gneral Assemblyi voted on Nov. 29, 1947 to partition Mandatory Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
01:48 PM on 06/07/2010
p2

And the rest of the land was occupied by FOREIGN Arab governments -- Jordan in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and Egypt in Gaza.

At NO time did the Palestinians -- again, who owned much of the land, and who lived there for centuries, EVER have Sovereignty over their own land.

You seem to be confusing the concept of SOVEREIGNTY with that of PRIVATE LAND OWNERSHIP.

You claim further that the Palestinians (a term you refuse to use -- and I think I know why-- because to do so would be to recognize that they exist as a people and have legitimate claims and property rights) refuse to recognize Israel. -- That IS NOT TRUE. (or almost completely untrue) Hamas has refused to recognize Israel (a mutual nonrecognition, by the way) but the PA has REPEATEDLY stated its recognition of Israel.

However, the current Israeli government (and most certainly the settler movement, which domintates this government) refuses to recognize a Palestinian claim to at least some of the land.

If there is going to be peace, then there must be MUTUAL recognition. For Israel, this will mean giving up those illegal settlements (which are unnecessary and actually are an impediment to peace). For the Palestinians, what this will mean PRACTICALLY speaking is that they will have to surrender the Right of Return to Israel proper (They SHOULD be allowed to settle in the West Bank.)
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jgarbuz
03:55 PM on 06/07/2010
No, the Arabs never had sovereignty over the land, because there was never a Palestinian nation. It wouldn't matter how many Jews lived in Ireland, or how much Irish land Jews owned, Jews would never be given sovereignty over Ireland. Nor would Arabs be given sovereignty no matter how much Irish land they owned. Even Scots-Irish landowners in Northern Ireland are denied sovereignty over that part of Ireland, which is technically part of the United Kingdom (UK). The "Unionists" consider themselves part of Britain. The Arabs living on Jewish land always considered themselves part of the Greater Arab Muslim Ummah (peoplehood). The idea of some separate Palestinian nation was contrived after the Mandate around 1920, to counter the claims of the Jewish National Home.Suddenly, the concept of a seperate Palestinian nation was hatched, and particularly after 1948, that idea began to be taught and take hold. The PLO was created in 1964 and the idea of Palestinian nationalism suddenly burst upon the world stage. But it is a recent fabrication from a historical POV. Nevertheless, even Netanyahu of the Likud (Whole Land of Israel) has reluctantly accepted the concept of a Palestinian state, but with caveats. It has to conform to Israel's security needs. But the Arabs don't want that.
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DrippingColors
10:13 AM on 06/07/2010
While I stand fully behind this peaceful attempt to alleviate suffering in Gaza, and call attention to the human rights disaster it is enduring, this episode kind of blows a lot of the criticism of Israel out of the water. If activists are bringing just relief supplies and act nonviolently, no one gets hurt and the materials get to their intended destination. I'm sure many feel Israel has no right to even inspect the ships, but its pretty clear how they feel about what others think. Its about solutions, not who is morally superior. I wish these pages were more about finding common ground than hurling insults.
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jwcmass
I dream of things that never were and ask Why not
01:54 PM on 06/07/2010
Dripping colors,

I agree with your statement.

THe only problem is that rocket and other wepaons are not the only items Israel refuses to allow into Gaza.

THe list includes: "sage, cardamom, cumin, coriander, ginger, jam, halva, vinegar, nutmeg, chocolate, fruit, preserves, seeds and nuts, biscuits and sweets, potato chips, gas for soft drinks, dried fruit, fresh meat, plaster, tar, wood for construction, cement, iron, glucose, industrial salt, plastic/glass/metal containers, industrial margarine, tarpaulin sheets for huts, fabric (for clothing), flavor and smell enhancers, fishing rods, various fishing nets, buoys, ropes for fishing, nylon nets for greenhouses, hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries, spare parts for tractors,
dairies for cowsheds, irrigation pipe systems, ropes to tie greenhouses planters for saplings, heaters for chicken farms, musical instruments, size A4 paper, writing implements, notebooks, newspapers, toys, razors, sewing machines, and spare parts, heaters, horses donkeys goats cattle chicks

http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf
"

As you can see, the object here is more than just not allowing weapons in.


I have suggested a compromise. Any approaching ship would be stopped by the Israeli Navy and searched. If such ships do not contain any weapons (like Kassam Rockets), then they should be permitted to proceed DIRECTLY to GAZA, NOT an Israeli port.

The fact is that the operators of these ships don't trust that Israel will actually delever the goods, and (considering the list) with good reason.

Thus my compromise.
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DrippingColors
02:10 PM on 06/07/2010
Clearly these items should not be embargoed and your compromise is entirely rational. I am curious about the explanation for these exclusions which seem to be entirely punitive. I could understand some regulation for things that might be used for tunnel making or weapons manufacturing. In general, though, I think Israel is making a huge mistake by inflicting economic hardship on the population as this will only harden their resistance. Thanks for the post.