WATCH: Tim Pawlenty On The Daily Show: Should There Be An iTunes Model For College?

Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty visited the Daily Show last week and brought with him some distinct views on the direction of American higher education.

Inside Higher Ed reports:

"Do you really think in 20 years somebody's going to put on their backpack, drive a half hour to the University of Minnesota from the suburbs, haul their keister across campus, and sit and listen to some boring person drone on about econ 101 or Spanish 101?" Pawlenty asked Stewart, host of "The Daily Show."

"Can't I just pull that down on my iPhone or iPad whenever the heck I feel like it, from wherever I feel like it?" he said. "And instead of paying thousands of dollars, can I pay $199 for iCollege instead of 99 cents for iTunes?"

Pawlenty has advocated for amped-up online education for some time now. In 2008, he called for Minnesota colleges to increase the credits it gives for online classes.

Read Inside Higher Ed's full report here and watch part one of the Daily Show spot below. What do you think of Pawlenty's ideas? Leave a comment with your opinion.

WATCH:

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
Exclusive - Tim Pawlenty Unedited Interview Pt. 1
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor Tea Party

Comments

[hagagaga]

04:13 PM on 06/20/2010

We shouldn't have anything influenced by Apple.

[Redskies]

02:33 PM on 06/19/2010

Education is not just content delivery, as with online music, movies, etc. If it were, people would simply exchange online courses for free on peer to peer networks, just as do with other files. Heck, you can buy textbooks on your own anyway. Why bother with courses and degrees?

To put it in bluntly economic terms that even people like Pawlenty can understand, the "value" of education resides not so much in the content, but largely in the evaluation of students (not just in grading, but also in admissions standards). The more students there are, and the more online courses/degrees there are, the more important evaluative standards will become. But online advocates, who seem to believe that education is simply a delivery system, almost never address this issue (probably because it isn't easy or cheap to do so). The result will be a lot of worthless degrees.

[formerroadie]

04:16 PM on 06/19/2010

Thank you. Fanned.

[Lucifuge]

09:57 AM on 06/21/2010

Totally agree with you. Another thing to keep in mind is how much students benefit from hands on, face to face interaction with professors and teachers. I think that it is a small percentage of people that can, say, take online courses, or use MIT-type courseware, and actually learn without the benefit of real interaction. As a grad student, working with students, I can attest to how many of my students need help with their writing and critical reading skills; something that can't really be picked up by taking online courses where there is no (or limited) interaction between students and teachers. This is just one example. Also, we can't underestimate how much students learn from other students. I think online universities and courseware are a long way from really being viable options for most disciplines.

[JustlikeMercury]

12:50 PM on 06/19/2010

it sounds like internet college. I had an entry level online math course that I finished in a week. It took time, yes, but I liked the fact that it got that class out of the way so that I could concentrate on something that required more time - like English with its papers to write. I can see how some people would benefit from an eye-college type thing, but some people are more independent learners.

[doctor4kids]

07:05 PM on 06/19/2010

Sounds like a great idea for a math class. But if you were taking a political science, religion, philosophy or literature you'd be missing a lot if you couldn't participate in class discussions or learn from other students who may come from different backgrounds and have ideas that you might not otherwise encounter.

[JustlikeMercury]

12:08 AM on 06/20/2010

true that. I was just saying for some entry-level courses, and other more independent research-based courses that an icollege credit/internet class type thing can be sensible. there are ways for internet courses to be more peer-to-peer interactive with video conferences and such, but i see the value of bouncing ideas off of others and getting opinions from profs more experienced.

[Lucifuge]

10:03 AM on 06/21/2010

Agreed. I made a similar point above. Online universities and courseware are, to date, a niche industry. They are great to have, and serve a purpose, but are just not a viable option for most people and for most disciplines.

[formerroadie]

12:15 PM on 06/19/2010

One of my favorite quotes:

Favorite Quotations
"We must not then dishonour education, because some men [women] are pleased to do so, but rather suppose such men [women] to be boorish and uneducated, desiring all men [women] to be as they themselves are, in order to hide themselves in the crowd, and escape the detection of their lack of culture."

~ St. Gregory the Theologian

“To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.”
...~ Amos Alcott

"The GOP activists can get away with wishing it was 1776 because they don't actually have to go home and face angry electorates after acting out an anachronistic fantasy. Congressional leaders like Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., can't afford to play pretend all the time. Back in 1776, nobody needed Medicare, because the average lifespan was around 35. In 2010, just citing "self-evident" truths ain't going to cut it."

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity."
~ George Carlin

"The rise of Idiot America ... is essentially a war on expertise ... In the new media age, everybody is a historian, or a scientist, or a preacher, or a sage. And if everyone is an expert, then nobody is, and the worst thing you can be in a society where everybody is an expert is, well, an actual expert."

-- Charles P. Pierce, "Idiot America"

[formerroadie]

12:38 PM on 06/19/2010

Sorry, I only meant to post the last quote, but enjoy the others too.

[doctor4kids]

08:13 PM on 06/19/2010

They're all good though. Maybe not all relevant to the discussion at hand, but all good.

[wm1066]

12:03 PM on 06/19/2010

Don't be fooled by this guy, he wants to destroy education not make it better!

[formerroadie]

12:29 PM on 06/19/2010

Most Republicans do.

[wm1066]

12:46 PM on 06/19/2010

One of the first things he did when he came into office was cut funding to the Public Libraries, they have been hurting ever since.... but he gave tax breaks to his campaign contributors!

[formerroadie]

12:00 PM on 06/19/2010

Thanks Republitard. As a future Professor, I am incredibly insulted by his insinuations about having an expert in the room. Furthermore, education is a two way conversation. The students need to interact with the teacher and each other. It creates an effect learning environment and can lead to better questions in the future. Online education, while I see some value in it, is a distant second in quality to an actual classroom. But, I wouldn't put it past Republicans to put money before quality education.

[bronzehorse]

05:56 PM on 06/20/2010

Exactly. It's not just content delivery. And an iTunes model wouldn't work very well on a number of fronts, including mimicking the structure of a decent college education that emphasizes exposing students to new ideas, new views, a range of disciplines and topics, and cross-discipline comparisons that might not necessarily stand out at first glance. I can go out and buy half a bookstore worth of texts, but that doesn't provide structure, guidance on determining what is reliable scholarship, or the communal experience of learning and interacting with one's peers.

[Democommon Sense]

07:42 AM on 06/19/2010

Sweet....now we can just outsource actually learning something to India as well. Online classes are not an end all answer. It is just the drivel that people who want to "predict" the future are hanging on this week. This is the same as saying I have porn on my computer why do I need a girlfriend. What a tool.

[Redskies]

05:11 AM on 06/19/2010

Why do people always think that education is simply for students, that students are the main consumers? I think what gets forgotten in these discussions is that public education, including public higher education, was implemented in large part because it served the needs of employers, without employers having to pay for it directly.

First, that's why we have "research universities"--a fact that is almost always ignored in discussions of online education. Faculty don't just teach, at least not at elite schools.

Secondly, universities have always served a filtering/ gate-keeping function for employers, which is why the prestige and standards of a university have always been important. Online education advocates always conveniently forget the evaluative and gatekeeping functions of universities, thinking of them as purely content delivery systems. But universities don't just (or shouldn't just) test the memorization of content, but the ability to apply knowledge to different situations (i.e, thinking). As yet, there is no software for assessing knowledge application, or even writing ability, much less creative skills, artistic ability, etc. Sadly, students sometimes simply want to know "what do I have to know." Pawlenty's idea of education as content delivery fits that idea nicely.

While some employers may be happy with that approach, I think that more highly paid jobs will continue to go to students from schools where the standards (online or not) rely on higher level skills. But the future is probably an even more steeply tiered educational system than we already have.

[formerroadie]

12:01 PM on 06/19/2010

Faculty have to do research at smaller schools too, but it's to a lesser degree. Sadly, it is becoming harder as schools force professors to teach massive overloads.

[Redskies]

02:10 PM on 06/19/2010

Yes, agreed.

But isn't it, then, precisely those who are good teachers who are most endangered by such an idea? No doubt, a few will become online stars, as has already happened with certain online "tutors" in Korea and Japan, but the future will likely be bleak for many.

Frankly, I would suggest that most academics should copyright everything in their courses from this point forward. If academics banded together in a copyright pool, they would be better equipped to deal with online courses, rather than allowing the government or corporations to dictate what will happen. Professional associations should be working on this right now.

[Tweet]

10:29 PM on 06/18/2010

What do you get from attending college as opposed to taking online courses?

1) Networking opportunities
2) Exposure to ideas and perspectives not a part of your own experience
3) Social contacts
4) Ability to think on your feet
5) Ability to discuss issues and learn from others
6) Contacts with professors which could lean to career opportunities

Online education leads to stunted growth.

[bluejoni2525]

12:21 AM on 06/19/2010

I agree completely !!!

[Biteyboo]

11:26 AM on 06/19/2010

You can get that all online. If I take an online course nothing prevents me or other students in the course from meeting physically. We can hold meetings and share our work. I can also talk to the professor in real time on the internet. The point is that colleges and universities cannot justify their high tuition costs. Many students like our current college set up because they are lonely, want a social life, and want to feel like they are actually "gaining knowledge" just by rubbing shoulders and talking BS with others. But we know what quality, overall, our current higher educational system turns out.

[Jschober]

06:59 PM on 06/18/2010

As a student of the University of Minnesota, Pawlenty has had a major hand in cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from the higher education system in this state. Yes, I understand we have a massive deficit and corners needed to be cut. Now explain this to our legislature that is proposing a $800 million new Vikings stadium in place of the Metrodome when our tuition is going up next year.

Thanks guys.

[formerroadie]

12:03 PM on 06/19/2010

It's the Republican way. I mean, Ronald Reagan cut half the federal government's education funding when he took office. It's amazing that these people bark about taxes being evil but refuse to pay for what people need.

[bronzehorse]

06:02 PM on 06/20/2010

And that, for all their clamor about the need to reduce spending drastically, they are never willing to even consider trimming a penny from the most bloated and massive area of spending...military spending. Despite the fact that the US spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined.

[Biteyboo]

06:58 PM on 06/18/2010

Almost all college courses are lecture courses. If you have studied the material, the lecture is just going to repeat what you already know. If you have not studied it, the lecture won't do you any good. The idea that you go to these college courses and ask the professor questions and engage in intelligent discussion with other students is laughable. I have done both undergraduate and graduate work, and that just does not happen. Colleges and university courses consist of you sitting in your apartment, studying, then walking on campus to hand in a paper, or take an exam. All the rest is just to justify screwing the students out of their money--by making it look like there is really something substantive going on by having the students and the faculty "hang out".

[Tweet]

10:30 PM on 06/18/2010

You, unfortunately, went to the wrong schools.

[Biteyboo]

11:13 AM on 06/19/2010

The schools I went to, the expensive private ones, were better at avoiding what I described above. But even in these schools with a good teacher/student ratio, the tuition is so high you have to be very wealthy to justify what they have to offer beyond what you can provide to yourself by just studying hard. What I described above holds for the majority of colleges and universities in the USA.

[jackstpaul]

07:09 AM on 06/19/2010

False. Lecture courses that I took as an undergrad and those that I was a TA for while in grad school went far beyond what was in the reading. The lectures were the main source of infomation and generally didn't repeat what was in the reading; that's what the reading was for. Missing lectures meant missing out on the meat of the courses.

[Biteyboo]

11:13 AM on 06/19/2010

A lecture course is an instructor or TA talking in front of students for 1 or 2 hours. There is no reason they cannot write down that lecture and let the students read it online. If the lecture was your main source of information you didn't gain much knowledge while in college. If you are presented with a course of study the bulk of your time in college will be sitting in your room studying. Only a small portion will consist of you seeking out answers to questions you have on the material. That can be done via email.

[Moe Sislak]

06:02 PM on 06/18/2010

I like taking a few of my classes online, but honestly to me online classes give me so many optinos to make things easier that I don't put as much effort into them because I don't meet fellow students in the class, I don't have to worry about looking dumb because I don't know an answer I'm asked and everything I need for a quiz or test is on the book next to the computer. Which is why for classes that I think I'll enjoy or want to take, those I do online because I think being in a class is a lot more productive than spending an hour or two a week looking for all the answers through a book and not looking back on the class till more things are due.