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Rand Paul's Underground Electric Border Fence Baffles Cornyn, Libertarians

First Posted: 06/24/10 04:43 PM ET Updated: 05/25/11 05:55 PM ET

Rand Paul

Republican Senatorial candidate Rand Paul wants to build a fence along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a rather ho-hum proposition in the larger context of conservative ideas -- except that Paul wants that fence to be electric and he wants it built underground.

Among the variety of proposals to stem illegal immigration along the southern border, the construction of an underground electrical fence appears to stand alone on the extreme. There is little contemporary evidence of other Republican officials proposing such a project, even among the most conservative of the bunch. Indeed, when approached in the halls of Senate several weeks ago and asked about the idea (though not told who proposed it), National Republican Senate Committee Chair John Cornyn (R-Tex.) assumed it was a joke.

"I have not heard that," the Texas Republican said. "Underground? What would happen? How would that work?"

That's actually a good question and one that Paul's campaign won't answer. His website says only the following: "My plans include an underground electric fence, with helicopter stations to respond quickly to breaches of the border." The details of how it would be built, what it would take to make it work and how much it would cost are left unanswered.

Moreover, aides to the Kentucky Republican have refused repeated attempts to explain the idea to the Huffington Post. On June 14, Paul's former spokesman and current campaign manager, Jesse Benton, said he would call the following day to provide further details. He never did.

Some elaboration on the concept is needed because even respected immigration experts -- including those from libertarian backgrounds (as is Paul) -- say they're in the dark.

"Kind of an interesting idea," Daniel Griswold of the CATO Institute said sarcastically. "I haven't heard of it.

"I have never heard of it before," said William Frey a widely-respected voice on immigration policy with the Brookings Institute. "I know there were a lot of ideas floating around in 2007 when they were trying to come up with comprehensive legislation. But I have never seen anything about underground fences."

There has been, to be sure, some discussion of "virtual fences." But those would be above ground. The notion -- as with Paul's idea -- is to monitor where border crossings take place without actually having guards stationed at frequent intervals. During a time of heavy concern about illegal immigration in 2006, Congress contracted with Boeing Co. to build a "fence of cameras, radar and other technology." But the project was plagued by delays and massive costs.

Indeed, when lawmakers have considered constructing an electronic fence along the border, they tend to view the burial process as either redundant or economically prohibitive.

Take, for instance, Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), hardly a shrinking violet among conservatives. In July of 2006, the Iowa Republican took to the House floor to discuss a fence that he had "designed" for the southern border.

"I also say we need to do a few other things on top of that wall," King said, while putting together a model of the fence on the desk in front of him, "one of them being to put a little bit of wire on top here to provide a disincentive for people to climb over the top or put a ladder there. We could also electrify this wire with the kind of current that would not kill somebody, but it would simply be a discouragement for them to be fooling around with it. We do that with livestock all the time."

King's fence, according to an accompanying AP article, would have been 12 feet high, made of 6-inch think concrete panels and spanned the border. The congressman pledged to keep it in place "for perhaps a hundred years, if necessary."

King's idea never went anywhere. But in other countries, electric fences have actually been erected. An academic paper on how to control land borders written in November 2002, mentioned that a Norex electrical fence was constructed along the border between South Africa and Mozambique but suffered, occasionally, from an insufficient current. An Agence France-Presse article from April 1997, noted that: "Turkey is planning to buy Israeli-made electronic equipment including special fences and radars to seal its border with Iraq to prevent infiltration into the country of separatist Kurdish rebels."

Neither South Africa nor Turkey built their fences underground, in part because their plans for border security are conceptually different than Paul's appears to be. The Kentucky Republican, it appears, isn't placing his hopes in the act of literally preventing immigrants from crossing the border. He wants to provide law enforcement officials advanced tools to monitor when and where that crossing takes place and then crack down on the illegality.

But for a self-professed libertarian, the idea doesn't seem to fit with the broader policy platform. For starters, it requires plenty of government involement, including the reliance on law enforcement officials to carry out the strategy and the distinct possibility of taking private land.

"They are going across very sensitive land along the Rio Grande River," said CATO's Griswold. "They are going across land for ranchers -- it is running roughshod over private property rights which kind of shocks me that Rand Paul would embrace this concept with the eminent domain issues it entails."

But mainly, Griswold notes, it's incredibly expensive. Rep. King said that his proposal would have cost $1.3 million per mile and up to $680 million total. That was the congressman's own, rosy estimate. And that was for a fence built over ground. Paul's underground fest would, in all likelihood, range well over $1 billion.

Of course, Paul's proposal would have little chance of passing through the Senate even if he is elected to that body. Despite an ever-growing appetite for border security, serious restraints still exist as to just how far the government can and will go. But it is an important part of his platform and a telling illustration of how his views on immigration tend to put him far at odds with the libertarian community and even to the right of his fellow Republicans.

That said, Paul's views may not be the most extreme of the bunch. Tom Mullins, a Republican nominee for a New Mexico congressional seat was quoted ten days ago, expressing some support for a proposal to place land mines along the Mexican border.

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Republican Senatorial candidate Rand Paul wants to build a fence along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a rather ho-hum proposition in the larger context of conservative ideas -- except that Paul wants th...
Republican Senatorial candidate Rand Paul wants to build a fence along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a rather ho-hum proposition in the larger context of conservative ideas -- except that Paul wants th...
 
 
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Diskatopia
Zarathustra Sings the Blues
10:02 PM on 06/29/2010
Here is an idea:
1)open the borders (with walk-through buildings at set busy points where the border crosser can show valid Mexican/otherSouth/Central American ID and be screened against terrorist lists, and given a date-stamped entry paper with his name and a scan of his Mexican/other ID on it)

2) and then as they work here, tax them-- any day/migrant/contract laborer without either a US social security card and valid state/fed ID, or a valid green card, shall have 25%-50% of his wages withheld by the employer and sent in to state and fed as a tax--
25% withheld if they have a date-stamped entry paper that matches their ID,
50% withheld if they have nothing to show (i.e., they jumped the border).
Place punitive tax penalties on businesses or owners who don't collect/send in this... Foreign Migrant Worker tax.


Then border jumping will serve no purpose and will in fact cost the border jumper and extra 25% Foreign Migrant Worker tax if he works while here, and this also will encourage him to get a green card if possible to pay even less tax.
02:02 PM on 06/30/2010
I think that your idea is good, but the level of taxes is excessive.

Also there is under aged orphans that cross the border as well. The first solider to die in Iraq jumped the border when he was 14.

Wouldn't an underground electric fence just short to the ground?

If you own chickens you need an underground fence to prevent them escaping.
Perhaps he was preparing a small coop to hold all the chickens he would be getting for his medical services?
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Diskatopia
Zarathustra Sings the Blues
09:39 PM on 06/29/2010
Maybe he is imagining some kind of (expensive) underground sensor that would send a signal from where a person crossed. That or he imagines we can make everyone in Mexico wear shock collars.I'm kidding -- even Paul the minor is not that batsheet loony.

Of course, such sensors for a long expanse are a dumb idea, as those jumping the border would eventually figure out they could drive the "helicopters"/responders batty by having fake crossings all over the place and immediately return to Mexico, along with the problems of mistaking large dogs/coyotes/whatever for people crossing... etc etc.

And the concrete wall with 6 inch thick concrete panels along the complete border ideas make me laugh too-- I'd love to have the patch-the-holes contract for that project -- or own the sledghammer stands on the Mexican side lol.
08:17 AM on 06/27/2010
The answer to illegal immigration is simple.
Every illegal male and female over he age of 17 must be required to serve in the military for four years.
Then once we have them in uniform we invade Mexico with no exit strategy
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ZeraLee
A Citizen's View from Main Street
05:05 AM on 06/27/2010
An underground fence to stop an underground railroad?
11:22 PM on 06/26/2010
Back in the day, Libertarians were for open borders, as a goal. I mean straight up no borders at all, and free immigration and emigration rights. How things change.
10:57 AM on 06/28/2010
That's what every Libertarian I've ever talked to is for. Rand Paul, however, is not a Libertarian.
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12:40 PM on 06/28/2010
Rich NeoLibertarians are all for violating freedom of association by profiting off immigrant slavery.
03:15 PM on 06/28/2010
Libertarians also believe that government shouldn't be providing subsistence to citizens either. In this case, if we are to provide services outside of infrastructure and security then it should only be for citizens which requires preventing residence of illegal aliens which requires closing the border. Reduce or better yet remove subsistence and then no need to close the border.
04:59 PM on 06/25/2010
Stop with the hysterics and destruction. If elected, Paul will be a junior Senator from one state with one vote and no power. The coverage he is getting is not going to hurt him, it's going to give him name recognition and probably help him because of the anti-government attitude of the electorate right now. People are awake and informed, the demagogery does not work any longer.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
04:19 PM on 06/25/2010
Never pee on an electric fence.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Impishparrot
Evolved dinosaur
05:47 PM on 07/02/2010
Or under it?
04:12 PM on 06/25/2010
Why are you guys trying to make him out to be just another Republican? The Repubs are very split on Paul because of his stance on the war. Thats a win for the Democrats, or atleast it used to be. Since when did the Demo's become so hawkish!
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
LDF
That's me in the red coat
10:02 AM on 06/29/2010
Ber nice if that was the only issue to be concerned about.
mrmikes
music saved me
04:10 PM on 06/25/2010
Now all we have to do is fit wandering Mexicans with shock-collars. Brilliant.
03:51 PM on 06/25/2010
"Paul Says 14th Amendment Doesn't Apply To Illegal Aliens"

Did he just declare himself a constitutional lawyer now, too?
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George Global
Diogenes has left the building
03:41 PM on 06/25/2010
Part 2 of the plan:
Give every Mexican citizen magnetic tap shoes...
03:39 PM on 06/25/2010
Put bosses that hire illegals in jail. Problem solved.
03:05 PM on 06/25/2010
and these are the type of people that are stepping forward to be our leaders.
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George Global
Diogenes has left the building
03:43 PM on 06/25/2010
Not on the electric fence, they're not.
REDSTATEREFUGEE
Texan by birth ; Californian by choice
02:46 PM on 06/25/2010
A larger questions is this: Can the GOP erect an electrified fence between Rand Paul's mouth and the media up until the November elections? If not, his virtually insane outbursts will contaminate more neo-con politicians than himself............
02:25 PM on 06/25/2010
This is about as idiotic idea as the US Army's attempt to detect enemy combatants along the Ho Chi Minh trail(s) by placing fleas in boxes with microphones and transmitters. The fleas would become active when humans (and animals) came near the boxes and the buzzing would be transmitted to a nearby fire support base that would then bomb the location; obviously not knowing whether it was a VC soldier, villager or monkey. The ever adaptive VC began to place bags of human fecal matter near the boxes making the fleas go absolutely nuts and in that manner defeated the Army's technology. Electronic sensors were also tried but rendered useless by the VC. So the Army also ever adaptive began to spray defoliants to deforest the land and poison not only the Vietnamese but also our own troops so that still today we have veterans suffering and dieing from the now infamous Agent Orange. Now, Mr. Paul wants to place sensors along the border and dispatch helicopters to capture the trespassers and more significantly to abrogate trade agreements with Mexico if they do not cooperate. Mind you, Mexico buys more US products than any other nation in the world, if this were to stop then millions of people in the US would lose their jobs; so in a sense what Mr. Paul is suggesting is poisoning the American economy... Go Figure