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Supreme Court Extends Rights Of Gun Owners Across The Country

MARK SHERMAN   06/28/10 03:50 PM ET   AP

Supreme Court Guns

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court held Monday that Americans have the right to own a gun for self-defense anywhere they live, expanding the conservative court's embrace of gun rights since John Roberts became Chief Justice.

By a 5-4 vote, the justices cast doubt on handgun bans in the Chicago area, but signaled that some limitations on the Constitution's "right to keep and bear arms" could survive legal challenges.

On its busy final day before a three-month recess, the court also ruled that a public law school can legally deny recognition to a Christian student group that won't let gays join, jumped into the nation's charged immigration debate by agreeing to review an employer sanctions law from Arizona and said farewell to Justice John Paul Stevens, who is retiring after more than 34 years.

A short distance from the court, the Senate Judiciary Committee began confirmation hearings for Elena Kagan, nominated by President Barack Obama to replace Stevens.

In the guns case, Justice Samuel Alito said for the court that the Second Amendment right "applies equally to the federal government and the states."

The court was split along familiar ideological lines, with five conservative-moderate justices in favor of gun rights and four liberals opposed. Roberts voted with the majority.

Two years ago, the court declared that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess guns, at least for purposes of self-defense in the home.

That ruling applied only to federal laws. It struck down a ban on handguns and a trigger lock requirement for other guns in the District of Columbia, a federal city with unique legal standing. At the same time, the court was careful not to cast doubt on other regulations of firearms here.

Gun rights proponents almost immediately filed a federal lawsuit challenging gun control laws in Chicago and its suburb of Oak Park, Ill., where handguns have been banned for nearly 30 years. The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence says those laws appear to be the last two remaining outright bans.

Lower federal courts upheld the two laws, noting that judges on those benches were bound by Supreme Court precedent and that it would be up to the high court justices to ultimately rule on the true reach of the Second Amendment.

The Supreme Court already has said that most of the guarantees in the Bill of Rights serve as a check on state and local, as well as federal, laws.

Monday's decision did not explicitly strike down the Chicago area laws. Instead, it ordered a federal appeals court to reconsider its ruling. But it left little doubt that the statutes eventually would fall.

Chicago Mayor Richard Daley said he was disappointed with the ruling, adding that officials already are at work rewriting the ordinance to meet the court's gun rights guarantee and protect Chicago residents from gun violence.

Alito made plain that local officials still have some leeway in crafting gun laws. He noted that the declaration that the Second Amendment is fully binding on states and cities "limits (but by no means eliminates) their ability to devise solutions to social problems that suit local needs and values."

Justices John Paul Stevens and Stephen Breyer, joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor, each wrote a dissent. Stevens said that unlike the Washington case, Monday's decision "could prove far more destructive – quite literally – to our nation's communities and to our constitutional structure."

The ruling seemed unlikely to resolve questions and ongoing legal challenges about precisely what sort of gun control laws are permissible.

The response of the District to the court's ruling in 2008 is illustrative of the uncertainty.

Local lawmakers in Washington, D.C. imposed a series of regulations on handgun ownership, including requirements to register weapons and to submit to a multiple-choice test, fingerprinting and a ballistics test. Owners must also show they have gotten classroom instruction on handling a gun and have spent at least an hour on the firing range. Some 800 people have now registered handguns in the city.

Anticipating a similar result in their case, Chicago lawmakers are looking at even more stringent regulations.

But the new regulations themselves are likely to themselves be the subject of lawsuits, a fact noted by the dissenting justices Monday. Already in Washington, Dick Heller, the plaintiff in the original case before the Supreme Court, has sued the city over its new laws.

Heller argues that the stringent restrictions violate the intent of the high court's decision. So far, a federal judge has upheld the limitations, but the case has been appealed.

Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, said his politically powerful group "will continue to work at every level to insure that defiant city councils and cynical politicians do not transform this constitutional victory into a practical defeat through Byzantine regulations and restrictions."

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an ardent proponent of gun control, said the ruling allows cities "to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists while at the same time respecting the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens."

New York does not ban guns, but restricts who can have them.

The court also was split between liberals and conservatives in its 5-4 ruling against a Christian student group that sought official recognition from the University of California's Hastings College of the Law.

The Christian Legal Society requires that voting members sign a statement of faith and regards "unrepentant participation in or advocacy of a sexually immoral lifestyle" as being inconsistent with that faith.

But Hastings said no recognized campus groups may exclude people due to religious belief or sexual orientation.

The high court upheld the lower court rulings saying the Christian group's First Amendment rights of association, free speech and free exercise were not violated by the college's decision.

"In requiring CLS – in common with all other student organizations – to choose between welcoming all students and forgoing the benefits of official recognition, we hold, Hastings did not transgress constitutional limitations," Ginsburg said in the court's majority opinion. "CLS, it bears emphasis, seeks not parity with other organizations, but a preferential exemption from Hastings' policy." Justice Anthony Kennedy joined the four liberals in the outcome.

Justice Samuel Alito wrote a strong dissent for the court's conservatives, saying the opinion was "a serious setback for freedom of expression in this country."

"Our proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom of express 'the thought that we hate,'" Alito said. "Today's decision rests on a very different principle: no freedom of expression that offends prevailing standards of political correctness in our country's institutions of higher learning."

In his final appearance on the bench, Stevens read aloud a brief letter to the other justices, after Roberts read one to Stevens.

The 90-year-old justice pointed out how times had changed since he joined the court in 1975. Then, he said, he would have addressed his remarks to his brethren.

Now, with two women as justices, he called them his colleagues.

___

Associated Press writers Jesse J. Holland and Jessica Gresko contributed to this report.

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WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court held Monday that Americans have the right to own a gun for self-defense anywhere they live, expanding the conservative court's embrace of gun rights since John Rob...
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court held Monday that Americans have the right to own a gun for self-defense anywhere they live, expanding the conservative court's embrace of gun rights since John Rob...
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nothing2fear
They only call it Class War when we fight back.
04:24 PM on 07/05/2010
Washington, D.C. Verses Arlington

Well I am here to tell you a story of two towns back east. They were both filled with a competitive spirit and the Mayors of both made grand speeches about how wonderful their particular town was. Each boasting and braggin’ telling all kinds of lies about how great his town was.

Well this all went on for quite a time until one day at a gathering of local mayors these two came face to face and started in on boosting the reputation of their own little community, till the lies were flying and no one could tell what was true and what had been made up.

Well I am here to tell ya that them two got nose to nose each a braggin’ and a fumin’ and a fussin’, almost came to blows when finally someone stepped in between them with the idea of havin’ a contest. A contest to see which of the two was a better place to live, a safer place to live.
nothing2fear
They only call it Class War when we fight back.
04:26 PM on 07/05/2010
Well all them mayors and stuff started in ta figurin’ till finally they came upon the idea of usin’ the toughest test of all. That test was homicides to test to see which little place was the safest to live in.

Well the Mayor and town council of the town of Arlington, VA got together and decided that they were going to safen up their town by arming all their citizens. They passed laws to make havin’ a gun just about as easy as havin’ a soda pop.
Now the Mayor and town council of the other town, Washington, D.C. got together thinkin’ that those darn fools in Arlington had put their foot in a pile of horse manure by makin’ it so every citizen had a gun and came up with a different approach as you might guess.

Well, being the capitol and all where the defenders of the Constitution of these here United States gather to protect our freedoms and our citizenry. Their idea of a different approach was to disarmed all their citizens makin’ it darn near impossible for anyone to own a gun or if they did jump through all them hoops so that finally got to own a gun, they made it so that gun was darn near impossible to use. Can’t commit muder if ya can’t get to a workin ‘ gun was the theory.
nothing2fear
They only call it Class War when we fight back.
04:26 PM on 07/05/2010
Now each of these two groups of politically savvy politicians after settin’ all these laws into place sat back in order to admire their particular work, and each said it was good now all anyone had to do was wait.
A
The outcome of the contest:
Well 25 years past and over that time it became pretty darn apparent that them ol’ fools in Washington had done papered their little town with laws that had crippled their citizenry, though they wouldn’t admit it.

Over that time their murder rate had gone up 51% while that of the rest of the nation (who weren’t even in the competition) had gone down 36%. But they had hope ‘cause they were still thinkin’ with all them guns in Arlington (were by the way my grandfather who fought in both world wars is buried) must be overrun with murders. Well they got a big surprise when they checked government records and found out the truth of the matter.
City Murder rates: 25 years after DC's ban
Washington, DC 46.4 per 100,00050
Arlington, VA 2.1 per 100,00051
(Arlington is just across the river from D.C.)

Well the citizens of Arlington got to be safer and the town of Washington, DC got a fancy name, they got to be the “Murder Capitol” and all. It just don’t make no sense now does it?
12:57 AM on 07/03/2010
What concerns me about this ruling is that 4 of the justices were so idealogically biased that the 2nd amendment was basically ignored by them.
02:05 PM on 07/04/2010
Or, that 5 of the justices were so ideologically biased that the 2nd amendment was basically ignored by them.

That sword cuts both ways friend. It all depends on how one interprets the amendment. The sign of true ideological bias is in not seeing that.
03:32 PM on 07/05/2010
dab--the 2nd amendment always has protected an INDIVIDUAL RKBA
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09:00 PM on 07/02/2010
And I'm done with this thread. Ciao!
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08:58 PM on 07/02/2010
Lobbyists are usually wrong. This is another case in point. Piling up meaningless "statistics" that are irrelevant and that nobody here is going to read, including me, will do you no good. But I suppose you get paid nonetheless. I'm happy that you are employed but it would be great if the gun industry went out of business.

My only suggestion: Read bradycenter.org with an open mind.
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
09:21 PM on 07/02/2010
I agree that the statistics you supplied were irrelevant and meaningless. You seem to emote rather than argue your point logically. Perhaps with a little more study, you will be able to keep up.

To offer raw numbers like you did is intellectually dishonest, as the entire picture of violence in other countries cannot be measured in a vacuum. But you knew that, and just didn't want to support your thesis.

I see that you have decided to abandon this thread. Farewell.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
09:35 PM on 07/02/2010
"Read bradycenter.org with an open mind"

It is hard to keep an open mind when the is some much propaganda, h8 speech, and incorrect information on their website.
02:07 PM on 07/04/2010
Hate speech? What are you talking about?
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12:22 PM on 07/02/2010
Pardon me, but I'll not be able to accept the judgment of "intellectual dishonesty" from anyone who supports such a corrupt industry as gun manufacturing. As far as I'm concerned, that's like a drug dealer chastising me for poor hygiene.
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
12:29 PM on 07/02/2010
Yet, I will call it as I see it. The countries you referenced already have an amazingly low homicide rate, and to neglect that fact is to distort and skew actual data and present a false image. Gun deaths are no more qualitatively different than those caused by knives, bats, machetes, or a big rock. People are still murdered with a vast assortment weapons, and to present guns only is intellectually dishonest.
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
12:40 PM on 07/02/2010
These are the non-firearm related homicides in 32 countries. If I may direct you to the numbers below, you will definitively observe that these countries have extremely low homicide rates, regardless of of firearms availability.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_non_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop

Per 100,000 population
# 1 Colombia: 62.74
# 2 South Africa: 51.3901
# 3 Guatemala: 25.4737
# 4 Mexico: 14.1112
# 5 Paraguay: 12.0451
# 6 Estonia: 10.4456
# 7 Belarus: 10.13
# 8 Latvia: 10.0337
# 9 Lithuania: 10.0135
# 10 Ukraine: 8.9253
# 11 Thailand: 8.4679
# 12 Moldova: 8.127
# 13 Barbados: 7.4906
# 14 Zimbabwe: 7.2381
# 15 Poland: 5.6072
# 16 United States: 5.5
# 17 Uruguay: 4.6149
# 18 Côte d'Ivoire: 4.0688
# 19 Bulgaria: 4.0652
# 20 Azerbaijan: 2.8078
# 21 Slovakia: 2.6473
# 22 Portugal: 2.4788
# 23 Macedonia, Republic of: 2.3141
# 24 Hungary: 2.05
# 25 Slovenia: 1.8109
# 26 Czech Republic: 1.6893
# 27 Australia: 1.5729
# 28 Chile: 1.5461
# 29 Spain: 1.2506
# 30 New Zealand: 1.1747
# 31 Germany: 1.1679
# 32 Singapore: 0.9209
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10:29 AM on 07/02/2010
"In one year, guns murdered

17 people in Finland
35 in Australia
39 in England and Wales
60 in Spain
194 in Germany
200 in Canada
9,484 in the United States."

For accurate information about the danger of guns and the gun lobby, go to
bradycenter.org
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
10:55 AM on 07/02/2010
You failed to mention that the overall homicide rate in the listed countries were also much lower than in the US. To simply throw up numbers with no background or references is intellectually dishonest. Without all information being referenced in relation to homicides, an informed decision cannot be formulated.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_ove_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop
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11:01 AM on 07/02/2010
But there are violent countries like Scotland with high assault rates that don't come near our murder rate. Guns just make killing easier. That's why we invented them.
08:10 PM on 07/08/2010
In one year, offensive speech hurt the feelings of

150 people in Britain
76 in France
150,000 in the United States

We have got to do something about hate speech and disagreeable talk.

Oh wait, i was trying to be sarcastic and just realized you are working on diminishing the right to free speech as well.
04:00 AM on 07/02/2010
misfiring a gun in self-defense while inside your Chicago apartment could result in the accidental death of a neighbor. Who is responsible?

The Supreme court upholds "the People's" Constitutional right to "Keep and Bear Arms". But it does not protect the right to "discharge" arms.

At the very least, incarcerate perpetrators of gun violence for life.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
09:14 AM on 07/02/2010
"misfiring a gun in self-defense while inside your Chicago apartment could result in the accidental death of a neighbor. Who is responsible? "

The person who pulls the trigger is responsible for the bullet. Always has been, always will be.

"But it does not protect the right to "discharge" arms."

NOBODY on the RKBA side says that it does (this is a fevered anti-gunner notion). However, you do have the right to discharge the arm in the process of lawful self-defense.
11:55 AM on 07/02/2010
Where in the Constitution/2nd amendment do the People have the right to "discharge arms in the process of lawful self-defense"? It only stipulates that the "right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infinged.".

The people supplement/augment the supply of weapons and the Commander-In-Chief (Governor) of the "well-regulated" state militia gives the order to "Fire!" in defense of the "Free State" when the militia is called into service.

Individual right to "keep and bear arms"...sure. The individual right to "discharge in the process of lawful self-defense"...nope.

I mean, who determines what is "lawful" but the law makers (regulators). The legislature can not stop you from possessing weapons, but it can make it "unlawful" to discharge the weapon for any reason without direct orders from a civilian/military commander.

No one has the right to use arms to fight the tyrannical national government (i.e. civil war).
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CelticMajic
The answer lies in each of us individually
11:18 AM on 07/02/2010
Actually, if there was a felony in progress and the person fired in self defense, the perpetrator of the felony would be charged even if that person did not pull the trigger. It is very rare that fault is found with true self defense.
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02:16 PM on 07/01/2010
@THINKBEFOREUSPEAK

You said: "more cars = more death ... your point?"

That's correct. The New Urbanism movement in urban planning is arguing successfully that cars must be removed from the urban environment. They should not be used indiscriminately but only when and where they are absolutely necessary. Americans have been foolish to sacrifice their environment, their cities and their economy to cars. Car-free areas are growing rapidly across Europe, and are now spreading into other parts of the world. Even in the US cars are starting to be restricted.

Guns mirror cars. They are manufactured, sold and used indiscriminately like cars. They are useful tools like cars but only in certain limited contexts, and nowhere else.

We need to grow out of that simplistic "more is better" thinking. Salt is good, even essential, but too much isn't. I don't know what kind of food gun lobbyists eat but I wouldn't trust their sense of taste.
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07:40 AM on 07/01/2010
And another thing: Why do we never - ever - hear anything from the gun manufacturers? It's because they are running scared, trying to keep their heads down.
12:11 PM on 07/01/2010
sorrry to tell you silly one--this case concerns individual rights, not corporations
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12:34 PM on 07/01/2010
Gun manufacturers had a huge stake in the outcome. It is noteworthy that they remained silent. Thanks anyway for the pointless clarification.
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02:02 PM on 07/01/2010
Yes silly little old me.
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07:39 AM on 07/01/2010
Let's see... what other bait can I throw at the gun fanatics to get them all riled up and excited about an opportunity to rehearse their arguments? Hm... It's hard to top jiffy squid. Well, here's a truth:

Drinking + driving doesn't kill, people kill.

So now the formulaic "guns don't kill, people kill" makes all the sense in the world? That slogan alone proves how desperate and futile the gun lobby is.
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
08:49 AM on 07/01/2010
"Drinking + driving doesn't kill, people kill."

Thank you for formulating the correct formula. However, your conclusion seems to be slightly off. The factor of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS seems to be missing. If you drink and drive, you are responsible for any harm you may cause. Likewise, if you use a weapon irresponsibly, you are responsible for your actions. The deaths are just as horrible, and I would hope the punishments as severe with each.

I hope we can agree that personal responsibility should be considered in all aspects of our lives. Because deaths can be caused by other stupid things people do all because of a lack of responsibility.
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09:00 AM on 07/01/2010
If everything was based solely on personal responsibility then we wouldn't need laws in the first place.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
09:40 PM on 07/02/2010
drinking and driving are deliberate activities engaged in by people, indicating a conscious decision by a enti.ty with a will. Drinking, and driving, being activities, can act on the environment around them. A firearm is an object. It can do nothing by itself. It cannot act on its environment by itself.
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jackbutler5555
04:45 PM on 07/03/2010
me: "The introductory phrase -- for which you offer no rationale --"

you: "The phrase tells us a reason why the right shall not be infringed, not why/when the right exists."

me: The Bill of Rights -- ten amendments and only one needs a "reason?" There just had to be another purpose for those words.

Some of these amendments are rather important and yet none of them have a "reason." Just the Second Amendment needs a "reason?" It doesn't ring true.
02:39 PM on 07/04/2010
This is a very weak argument as you're drawing a distinction that doesn't exist. A car, like a gun, is an object. Driving like shooting are (generally) deliberate actions.

If you want to draw a distinction between guns and cars, ask yourself what they are both intended for. What's their primary purpose? Clearly they're both dangerous, but how are they different?

Car = useful and efficient device for transportation
Gun = useful and efficient device for killing and maiming
07:19 PM on 06/30/2010
What I don't understand is the anger at the Supreme Court. Scalia and the majority clearly outlined the historical rationale for their judgement. It is the duty of the Court to accurately interpret the Constitution, nothing more nothing less. If you don't like it amend it.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
demsrsilly
Proud supporter of workplace freedom.
06:38 PM on 06/30/2010
Checking the news, still no raging gun battles going on in the streets anywhere.
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05:55 PM on 06/30/2010
Somehow I just can't see gun lovers actually defeating any of their so-called enemies. Sure, I can see them speeding downs highways in their pickups with rifles in the racks and ammo stocked in the back, trying to outrun apocalyptic conflicts, ready to pull the trigger at a moment's notice. But I can't see them actually achieving their goal.

I think they've already lost whatever it is they hope to win.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
06:57 PM on 06/30/2010
Most of us firearm owners don't own pickups, let alone pickups with firearm racks. But feel free to continue showing your ignorance by employing stereotypes if you must.
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07:12 PM on 06/30/2010
OK, good. So stereotypes are bad, right?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
09:12 PM on 06/30/2010
I love the generalizations and assumptions based on personal bias that we see in threads such as this.. I personally drive a VW and utilize a retention holster.. no gun rack in the window (since back in high school when it was no big deal).
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
03:37 PM on 06/30/2010
HEADLINE:
"Supreme Court Extends Rights Of Gun Owners Across The Country"
Should read:
"Supreme Court Recognizes Pre-Existing Rights Of Gun Owners Across The Country"
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Pilatunes
Best described as miscellaneous
01:45 PM on 06/30/2010
Funny, a friend just sent me this link, and it is somewhat apropos of the whole discussion of inner cities and gun violence.

The case itself is standard Judge Judy fair, but the incidental discussions blew me away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk--1VD2e2s&feature=related