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France BURQA BAN: French Parliament Approves Ban On Face Veils

ANGELA DOLAND   07/13/10 04:02 PM ET   AP

France Burqa

PARIS — France's lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a ban on wearing burqa-style Islamic veils Tuesday, part of a determined effort to define and protect French values that has disconcerted many in the country's large Muslim community.

Proponents of the law say face-covering veils don't square with the French ideal of women's equality or its secular tradition. The bill is controversial abroad but popular in France, where its relatively few outspoken critics say conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy has resorted to xenophobia to attract far-right voters.

The ban on burqas and niqabs will go in September to the Senate, where it also is likely to pass. Its biggest hurdle will likely come after that, when France's constitutional watchdog scrutinizes it. Some legal scholars say there is a chance it could be deemed unconstitutional.

The issue has been debated across Europe, and Spain and Belgium have similar bans in the works. In France, which has Europe's largest Muslim population, about 5 million of the country's 64 million people are believed to be Muslim. While ordinary headscarves are common in France, only about 1,900 women are believed to wear face-covering veils.

The main body representing French Muslims believes such garb is not suitable in France, but it fears the ban will stigmatize all Muslims.

Malika Hamidi, director general of the European Muslim Network think tank, said she is very worried. The ban's backers are "playing up a feeling of fear of Islam" at a time when Europe is concerned about its changing identity, struggling to manage its diversity and dealing with an economic crisis, she said.

In Tuesday's vote at the National Assembly, there were 335 votes for the bill and just one against it. Most members of the main opposition group, the Socialist Party, walked out and refused to vote, though they in fact support a ban. They simply have differences over where it should be enforced, underscoring the lack of controversy among French politicians on the issue.

The bill passed Tuesday bans face-covering veils everywhere that can be considered public space, even in the street, but the Socialists only want it in certain places, such as government buildings, hospitals and public transport.

France's government has insisted that assimilation is the only path for immigrants and minorities, and last year it launched a grand nationwide debate on what it means to be French. The country has had difficulty integrating generations of immigrants and their children, as witnessed by weeks of rioting by youths, many of them minorities, in troubled neighborhoods in 2005.

At the National Assembly, few dissenters spoke out about civil liberties or fears of fanning anti-Islam sentiment.

Legislator Berengere Poletti, of Sarkozy's party, said face-covering veils "are a prison for women, they are the sign of their submission to their husbands, brothers or fathers."

The niqab and burqa are also seen here as a gateway to extremism and an attack on secularism, a central value of France for more than a century.

Discussions in France have dragged on for more than a year, since Sarkozy declared in June 2009 that the burqa is "not welcome" in France.

There has been some concern the bill could prod terror groups to eye France or its citizens as potential targets. Following Sarkozy's comments, al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb issued a statement on Web sites vowing to "seek vengeance against France."

The legislation would forbid face-covering Muslim veils in all public places in France and calls for euro150 ($185) fines or citizenship classes, or both.

Socialist Senator Bariza Khiari, one of France's few Muslim politicians, fears some women targeted "will withdraw into themselves, stay in the house, and instead of doing education projects, we're doing a ban, which I regret."

The bill also is aimed at husbands and fathers – anyone convicted of forcing someone else to wear the garb risks a year of prison and a euro30,000 ($38,000) fine, with both penalties doubled if the victim is a minor.

Officials have taken pains to craft language that does not single out Muslims. While the proposed legislation is colloquially referred to as the "anti-burqa law," it is officially called "the bill to forbid concealing one's face in public."

It refers neither to Islam nor to veils. Officials insist the law against face-covering is not discriminatory because it would apply to everyone, not just Muslims. Yet they cite a host of exceptions, including motorcycle helmets, or masks for health reasons, fencing, skiing or carnivals.

In March, France's highest administrative body, the Council of State, warned that the law could be found unconstitutional. It said that neither French secularism nor concerns about women's equality, human dignity or public security could be legal justifications.

Anticipating a ban on the veils, an entrepreneur who tried to run for president in 2007, Rachid Nekkaz, is creating a fund to pay the fines of anyone caught wearing a niqab or burqa.

While he says he opposes the full veils, he says a ban would be anti-democratic, and he is creating the fund "so that my country is not the disgrace of the whole world."

In Cairo, Islamic scholar Abdelmotie Bayoumi said a French ban would not violate Islamic law, but would violate personal freedoms.

"The niqab has no strong legitimacy based on the Quran or in examples from the Prophet's life that makes it a religious imposition on women. A Muslim woman wears the niqab not because of religious duty, but as a personal freedom," said Bayoumi, whose books include "Contemporary Testimonies," about the full-face veil.

___

Associated Press writer Maamoun Youssef in Cairo and Rafael Mesquita in Paris contributed to this report.

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PARIS — France's lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a ban on wearing burqa-style Islamic veils Tuesday, part of a determined effort to define and protect French values that has di...
PARIS — France's lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a ban on wearing burqa-style Islamic veils Tuesday, part of a determined effort to define and protect French values that has di...
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07:45 PM on 08/10/2010
The true objective of Burqa bans is not to protect Muslim women but to discourage the spread of Islamic fundamentalism to free and open democratic societies. A healthy host that takes no steps to remove a growing parasite from its body will eventually be consumed by the parasite.
10:12 AM on 08/11/2010
Burqas and Islamic fundamentalism have no correlation.
02:57 PM on 07/19/2010
No matter what reasons a person might have for wearing a burka, it is, in effect, a complete disguise of identity. There are many good reasons why most societies do not permit disguises and masks to be worn in public. Even on Halloween, banks and other businesses do not permit masked persons to enter. The security problems caused by allowing this kind of disguise are obvious.
06:11 PM on 07/19/2010
Ok
04:30 PM on 07/18/2010
To everyone: What is wrong with my "They have different values that you should respect as long as no one is hurt" argument? Seriously, no one can see it?
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09:42 PM on 07/18/2010
Define "no one is hurt"...
11:26 PM on 07/18/2010
On a objective level, the women who chose to wear it are happy, and the seculars are not physically harmed.

What the seculars are"perceiving" as harm shouldn't supercede the views of burqa wearing women.
02:59 PM on 07/18/2010
Each society has a right and an obligation to regulate its mores and morality standards.
We, as Europeans are reaching consensus that buirqa is offensive to us and violates our sense of morality and justice and is constitutes visual blight.
Any Salafist family that disagrees is free to depart for countries were burqa is accepted. I suggest Dearborn, Michigan and/or Somalia.
04:02 PM on 07/18/2010
Europeans are making that consensus based on faulty or biased information though. In my post, I have explained that many of these things are cultural or extremism, not Islam. Or, in the case of the burqa, it is a case of misunderstanding. I can say that seculars are focused on the superficial, aka the face, with the religious are focused on actions and internal beliefs. Both can exist in the same society as history has shown.
01:30 AM on 07/19/2010
"many of these things are cultural or extremism, not Islam. "
Wrong.

Face-veiling in a Islamic phenomenon.
Fact: The ONLY people who practice veiling are Muslim.
Factl Buqa wearers include people of many divergent cultures: French, Turkish, German,Arab, Indonesian,. Pakistani, Somali, Moroccan etc.
The ONLY shared trait these burqa wearers of various cultures have is NOT culture ONLY Islam.

Fact: In Europe veiling is not part of the culture.. only religious Muslims wear face veils. It is certainly not a cultural thing.
Fact: In Indonesia veiling is not part of the culture. Only religious Muslims wear it.It is certainly not a cultural thing.

Game Over.
Next subject...
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09:43 PM on 07/18/2010
As I understand, Syria has banned the burqa too. It's not just Europe that is concerned.
11:28 PM on 07/18/2010
Giving me countries that agree with you doesn't disprove my argument.
02:26 PM on 07/18/2010
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
03:59 PM on 07/18/2010
"That doesn't make sense". Haha. Very funny.
01:31 AM on 07/19/2010
It doesn't make sense?
PRECISELY
it is because religion doesn't make sense.
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01:31 AM on 07/18/2010
My father used to say, "Keep your sex in your pants, and keep your religion in your home."

Or was it, "Keep your religion in your pants, and your sex in your home."

?????? :D
01:21 AM on 07/18/2010
“"Islam was like a mental cage. At first, when you open the door, the caged bird stays inside: it is frightened. It has internalized its imprisonment. It takes time for bird to escape, even after someone has opened the doors to its cage."
— Ayaan Hirsi Ali (PUBH)”
10:20 AM on 07/18/2010
1) She was raised in a society that used female mutiliation and forced marriage as a cultural trademark. She can't tell religion from culture in that environment. For example, not one Qur'anic verse or hadith encouraging beating up woman and raping them as a means to silence them. Yet this has occured in her home region by people who claim to be Muslims. If they are not submiting to God's words, they are not Muslim.

2) She studied in the Netherlands, which assuming you guys only hate the Burqa and not Muslims or Islam, is arguibly racist (or religionist... I say racism because it is the same hatred of a certain group) against Muslims. It has been made clear by many there that they want Muslims out of the Netherlands. All the books she would have read are one-side. She says that she was exposed to western values there. Yes, but to the exclusion of respecting other values. Her slandering of Islam isn't even correctly supported. She has the same misconceptions as many Westerns do.
02:55 PM on 07/18/2010
Islamic antediluvian nonsense.
10:54 AM on 07/18/2010
3) She states that after 9/11, her faith took a blow. I can easily say
that this shows her weakness in faith since the begining. I know 9/11.
But I didn't question my faith. I questioned those flawed humans who
committed the act. If they use the Qur'an to support their terror, why
should their opinion lead yours? Read the Qur'an yourself. Read those
quotes IN CONTEXT. The meaning is different if you ACTUALLY READ THE
DAMN BOOK and stay open-minded.

4) She wore transperant clothing with Qur'an verses in that racist
(religionist) movie. Even a feminist would agree that it is both
demeaning of Hirsi and a kind of (I say completely) psycho idea.

5) Why is Hirsi more important than the Muslims and non-Muslims who
defend Islam? Also, how would you or Hirsi explain a large net
INCREASE of Muslims after 9/11. Clearly, they see something she doesn't.
02:25 PM on 07/18/2010
It is silly to allow the writings of a 7th century alleged porphete who ehhh. consumed marriage to a 9 year old girl, dictate to the world s how to raise kids and behave in a modern society.
Think about it, if able, Raiger.
11:15 PM on 07/17/2010
@Helen; Regarding your deleted comment:

The comparison was to show that just like the bra has a biological purpose, the burqa has a religious one.

Some men do wear it. Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say they can't. Again, some men actually wear the burqa.

Also, I am simply providing many arguments from many different directions to strengthen my argument. If I am "moving the goalpost", it is to my advantage.

Again, your insistence that it is a sign of servitude to men is mistaken and is based on what your background considers to be true. Why are you and your cultural beliefs more important than the burqa-wearing women. If you say it is in your home country, fine. But don't go after the burqa if it doesn't hurt anyone.

So far, I have answered all of your questions or responded to your statements. My arguments, with the exception of the 100 lashes, has used legitimate arguments that can at least be seen or understood from a secular level. Don't you agree?
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12:42 AM on 07/18/2010
I have no idea why my comment was deleted.
12:48 AM on 07/18/2010
Neither do I. You didn't offend me at all. Except the "OMFG you keep changing goalpost" thing. That doesn't really count though.
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12:47 AM on 07/18/2010
In debate we call this moving the goalposts.

I have been consistent in that the burqa codifies inequality.

You have not challenged this. You have stated it's for modesty. You have stated it's because women are special. You have stated that Islam views men and women as equals.

If so, and if all these things are true, then men should be wearing the burqa too.

But alas, they are not. Which speaks to the codified inequality.
09:14 AM on 07/18/2010
Some men do wear it. Don't say terrorist. I am serious.

You cannot PROVE to me that based on absolute reality that the burqa is unequal. You can only use your opinion and values. If we need to use values to show that something is unequal, why are your values superior to the values of others? It is now considered a bad thing to subjugate another culture if it isn't harming you. If you consider your morals superior, fine. But don't inferfere with others willingly partaking in the alien culture if the home culture is unharmed.

Both men and woman can and do wear the burqa as a means to show devotion. It is just rarer to see men do it because men tend to use other lifestyle changes in order to do so.

Also, I say that a man can wear a burqa because:
1) I have seen a man put one on
2) The qur'an doesn't forbid it

I can't say google search it, since you can't tell gender under the burqa. You would assume it is a woman, which is mostly true. If you look for news, you would only see terrorist. Why would they talk about random burqa wearing men?

What is your response?
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ramsha
07:12 PM on 07/17/2010
If you have done nothing wrong, why would you want to cover your face anyway? If I was a Muslim woman I will quote the saying" what is good for the goose is good for the gander" Only the genitalia are markedly different for the two sexes. But for the facial hair, the face is essentially the same for both sexes, so why the discrimination? It looks like the men want to exert their power over women in the name of the religion.
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Christophe
05:36 PM on 07/17/2010
Progressive Muslims who are an overwhelming majority of French Muslims appovre the ban on Burqa and have made it very clear though their religious leaders.
Burqa is the symbol of a very marginal movement within Islam called SALAFISM.
Salafis reject not only Western ideologies such as Socialism and Capitalism, but also common Western concepts like economics. They have NO PLACE in a Western society.
05:54 PM on 07/17/2010
1) I already gave an explanation for the support of the bill in a previous post.
2) This is an assualt of the freedom of religion and freedom to choose.
3) Burqas are not only for salafis. Any Muslim can wear it.
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Christophe
05:59 PM on 07/17/2010
You are welcome to respond with facts.
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tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
05:12 PM on 07/17/2010
But what about women who choose to wear a Burqa? Forcing them to have their heads/faces uncovered accomplishes what, exactly?
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Christophe
05:18 PM on 07/17/2010
Why am I not allowed to go naked on the nearby beach here in CA?
What are the US laws forbidden nudity accomplishing?
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JPalka
05:22 PM on 07/17/2010
it's a good law. are you female and double D? otherwise you are ugly, fat, and you smell :)
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tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
05:25 PM on 07/17/2010
Are you really comparing nudity to wearing a burqa?

Are you capable of answering my question?

Plenty of places you can go nude in CA....here in Eugene Oregon, women can go topless....educate yourself on the laws
mbrownNY
There's only one party... and we're not invited!
11:01 PM on 07/16/2010
Sorry to say... but not all countries have the same rights Americans do under the first amendment. If France wants to ban the burqa because they are a secular society and they want to be able to track potential terrorists... that is their choice. If you don't think it, don't move there. Many muslim countries ban alcohol, kissing in public, certain clothing, homosexuality, etc. That's their business, and I don't visit (and wouldn't move to) those countries. Fact is, no person (or government) has to respect or accommodate anyone's religious beliefs - especially when they are not compatible with modern society.
11:32 PM on 07/16/2010
They are compatible and the French government has to accommodate because their laws establish the protection of freedom of religion.
12:18 AM on 07/17/2010
"They are compatible"
Only aperson entirely divorced from reality would suggest that mainstream Islamic dogma whcih requires execution for leaving Islam, adultery and apostasy, practices female genital mutilation and child marriage is compatible with modern European secular perspective.

Not to mention the more radical aspects of European Islam which include women containment units (aka burqas), militant Jihad, terrorism, death fatwas against European artists and efforts to build European Caliphates.
10:29 AM on 07/17/2010
Secular law takes precedence over freedom of religion. In fact, individual freedom comes after the public good.
France says public good is to show your face in public.
04:07 PM on 07/16/2010
France and Netherlands, the two European countries that suffer most from Islamic fundamentalism, are in the vanguard of the struggle against political and fundamentalism Islam. No surprise here.
Germany is catching up.
It is hoped that UK is not entirely lost. But the hope grows dimmer.
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tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
03:01 PM on 07/17/2010
Oh please. Teabaggers malign Europe to suit their teabagging paranoid fantasies ( socialist)..and now you defend them?

Have some Freedom Fries, patriot.
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Christophe
06:16 PM on 07/17/2010
I disagree with that.
England has become a hotbed for Salfism (read medieval Islam) in Europe.
You can hear Jihad preaches in the Streets on London.
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tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
06:59 PM on 07/17/2010
Christians do the same in the US.....
03:30 PM on 07/16/2010
Say what you will about the French, but they're not stupid. Banning the burqua is an excellent solution to deterring the radical Islamist's presence in Franch not to mention the gigantic drain on the welfare system. And they can take their burqua's, headscarves, jihads, violence, honor-killings, & stonings with them. I just wish the USA would do the same. Wake up world - these radical's are a major threat to world peace. Vive la France!
10:42 PM on 07/16/2010
It hurts moderate Muslims and encourages radicals.
06:16 AM on 07/17/2010
we never hear moderates condemn extremist crimes .thefore there is no such thing as moderate muslim
12:33 PM on 07/16/2010
This is a silly question I guess but: Since woman have to wear bras to cover their breasts in public, should that be viewed as demeaning to women since men don't have to do it? What is your reasoning. Please be logical and understanding the opposing argument's view when you respond. Also, read my previous posts so that you don't repeat anything that has already been explained.
12:50 PM on 07/16/2010
Bras are to keep breasts up so the fine tissues that make the skin do not break.
You are running out of arguments... and either too young to know what bras are about or too old and you have forgotten or gay and you don't care, which is understandable, but especially do not look up to radical Islam for solace because you won't find any!
02:58 PM on 07/16/2010
And they are worn because women have different physical structures than do men. Islam just happens to recognise those differences and respond in kind. If you don't like how Islam works, that's good and fine, but it sure would be nice if we could practise our religion as we please (a basic human right) without outside interference except when someone actually does get hurt.
mbrownNY
There's only one party... and we're not invited!
10:55 PM on 07/16/2010
That's a BS argument. If men are able to go topless, so should women. Women did just fine for tens of thousands of years without bras. The current laws (and social norms) concerning this issue are blatantly sexist. That being said... banning the burqa is a totally different issue.
12:52 PM on 07/16/2010
... but especially in that latter case..
02:00 PM on 07/16/2010
So you agree that there is a logical reason for woman to wear bras. Muslims have a logical reason to wear burqa in the sense that they want to show their piousness. In that sense, I think that it is logical to wear a burqa if one wants to do so.

Also, I already knew about the biology. Thats why I said it is a silly question, but hopefully a question that leads to discussion.