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Spain Burqa Ban: Spanish Parliament To Consider Banning Islamic Veils In Public

HAROLD HECKLE   07/18/10 05:36 PM ET   AP

Spain Burqa Ban

MADRID — Spanish lawmakers will debate barring burqas in public, joining other European countries considering similar moves on the grounds that the body-covering garments are degrading to women, the leading opposition party said Sunday.

Top officials of the ruling Socialist Party have indicated they will support the proposal by the opposition Popular Party, making a ban likely unless the country's highest court rules it unconstitutional.

A debate in Spain's lower house has been set by the Popular Party for Tuesday or Wednesday, the party said.

No vote will be scheduled until after the debate, and Spain's Parliament usually goes on vacation for a month starting in late July or early August.

Justice Minister Francisco Caamano said on June 15 that garments like the burqa are "hardly compatible with human dignity."

Head-covering veils would not be included in a ban as they form a part of traditional Spanish dress, with women often covering their heads with a garment called a mantilla, especially during church services in the south of the country.

Other European nations that have debated regulating the use of body-covering burqas or face-covering niqabs include Belgium, the Netherlands and France.

A notable exception has been Britain, where Immigration Minister Damian Green described calls to outlaw such garb as "un-British."

"Telling people what they can and can't wear, if they're just walking down the street, is a rather un-British thing to do," he told the Sunday Telegraph.

"We're a tolerant and mutually respectful society."

France's lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a ban on wearing burqa-style Islamic veils on July 13 in an effort to define and protect French values, a move that angered many in the country's large Muslim community.

The French ban on burqas and niqabs goes before Senate in September amid predictions it will pass, but its biggest hurdle could come when France's constitutional watchdog scrutinizes it later.

Britain and France have sizable Muslim minorities that they have sometimes struggled to integrate. Differences over dress – in particular the stark-looking niqab, usually an all-back garment which leaves only the eyes visible – often serve as touchstones for wider discussions about Islam, identity, and immigration.

A British Conservative lawmaker has just tabled a French-style bill that would outlaw the niqab, but the bill hasn't received any support for the ruling Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition and isn't likely to get very far.

Belgium's lower house approved a ban on face-covering veils, but it must still be ratified by its upper chamber.

The Netherlands debated banning burqas four years ago and may yet outlaw attire that is considered as demeaning to women.

Switzerland last year banned building new minarets from which Muslims are called to prayer, following a national referendum last year.

Spain has about 1 million Muslims in the nation of 47 million, with most living in the northeastern region of Catalonia and the southern region Andalucia. However, burqas are rarely seen.

Spain's second-largest city of Barcelona in June banned the use of burqas and niqabs in municipal buildings, joining a handful of small towns and cities nearby that have taken similar steps.

Mansur Escudero, spokesman for Spain's Islamic Commission, said in June that there is no religious mandate for Muslim women to wear burqas and the garment was "extravagant," but criticized government efforts to ban the outfit because he said women should be able to exercise free choice in how they dress.

___

Associated Press Writer Raphael Satter in London contributed to this report.

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MADRID — Spanish lawmakers will debate barring burqas in public, joining other European countries considering similar moves on the grounds that the body-covering garments are degrading to women,...
MADRID — Spanish lawmakers will debate barring burqas in public, joining other European countries considering similar moves on the grounds that the body-covering garments are degrading to women,...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
09:05 PM on 07/21/2010
Here is a recap of what was posted on this blog by numerous "well wishing" people:

Principle #1: Anyone who criticizes Islam has NO credibility.

Principle #2: No one can REALLY understand Islam before spending a lifetime learning about it.

Principe #3: Muslims all over the world are very frequently using violence against non-Muslims and Muslims alike, in the name of religion, but this has NOTHING to with Kuran.

Principle #4: Muslim women happily CHOOSE to be treated as sub-human by the men around them.

Principle #5: No one seems to agree on the REAL meaning of Kuran. Every school of thought has a different understanding of the same writings. But it's OK because, in the end, no one is accountable for anything since it's a religious matter. God only knows...

Are you guys serious?
09:46 PM on 07/21/2010
Principle #1:Anyone who criticizes Islam without reading the Qur'an and discussing with Muslims with an open mind has NO credibility.

Principle #2: No one can REALLY understand Islam before spending a decent amount in exposure to it.

Principle #3: Muslims all over the world are infrequently using violence against non-Muslims and Muslims alike, in the name of religion, but this is a result of deliberately or accidentally misinterpreting the Qur'an or simply ignoring some parts of it.

Principle #4:The media logically has no need to report peaceful people. They only report the actions of the extremists.

Principle #5: Muslim women happily CHOOSE to serve God in a different manner than the men around them.

Principle #5: Muslim men can do the same as women. Most choose not to.

Principle #6: Not everyone seems to agree on EVERYTHING in the Qur'an. Every person may have different interpretations on some parts, but 95% at least is indisputable.

Principle #7: Unlike other religions, divisions in Islam are not based on the holy book, but are based in their different views of history and differences in their view of how their Islamic faith, common to all Muslims, should be manifested in the world in response to social, political, and cultural factors.

Principle #8: People are the root of evil. They have the free will to do good or bad; they have the free will to heed the words of the Qur'an completely, partially, or not at all. In Islam, God judges them.
09:51 PM on 07/21/2010
Principle #9: Although Islam doesn't promote the problems of the world, people have, can, do, and will twist Islam to serve their ends.

Principle #10: People who completely disregard the feelings and beliefs of others can not possibly understand the views of Islam and thus can not effectively argue with people who are throughly educated in the matter

Principle #11: People who are openly hateful do the same thing as what they accuse extremists of doing.
03:53 PM on 07/21/2010
Whoever is flagging everything I say, flagging doesn't equal dislike. Only flag offensive things. You can't flag everthing I say.

I am guessing it is liquidzen11.
02:02 PM on 07/21/2010
Let us move our argument to:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/20/spain-rejects-burqa-ban_n_653254.html

We are done here.
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02:21 PM on 07/21/2010
GOOD IDEA!!!! The dragon in me was just about to unlease after reading your imbecilic posts.
02:27 PM on 07/21/2010
That is very rude.
11:02 PM on 07/21/2010
Can you hear yourself?
02:28 PM on 07/21/2010
How in the world is suggesting we move our argument somewhere else seen as abusive?

Who flagged me?
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02:43 PM on 07/21/2010
GET LoST!
04:05 PM on 07/20/2010
FROM: Western Muslims' Racist Rape Spree By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMag.com 12-29-5
"And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported that visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were raped. He added, "For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have shown good conduct." The number of rapes committed by Muslim men against women in the last decade is so incredibly high that it cannot be viewed as anything other than culturally implicit behaviour. It is overtly reinforced and sanctioned by Islamic religious leaders who blame the victims and excuse the rapists...
In three decades of immigration into Western countries, Islam has caused social upheaval and havoc in every one of its host countries. No other immigration program has encountered the problems of non-assimilation and religious ambiguity... July 2005, Melbourne Sheik Mohammad Omran told Sixty Minutes that "...we believe we have more rights than you because we choose Australia to be our home and you didn't."
In the same interview Sheik Khalid Yasin warned "There's no such thing as a Muslim having a non-Muslim friend, so a non-Muslim could be your associate but they can't be a friend. They're not your friend because they don't understand your religious principles and cannot because they don't understand your faith...
HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE MUST BUILD UP BEFORE YOU WAKE UP?
06:52 PM on 07/20/2010
Quotes from PEOPLE don't prove anything about Islam. Only the Qur'an as a whole does.
11:18 AM on 07/21/2010
"Quotes from PEOPLE don't prove anything about Islam."

Here's the proof about Islam and its followers lately -- 7/7;.9/11 Theo Van Gogh, Major Malik Hasan, John Mohammed, London, Mumbai, Beslan, Moscow, Bali, Madrid etc...etc...etc...etc...

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, general manager of Al-Arabiya news
channel:"

"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is
equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists
are Muslims.

The hostage-takers of children in Beslan, North Ossetia, were
Muslims. The other hostage-takers and subsequent murderrs of the
Nepalese chefs and workers in Iraq were also Muslims. Those involved
in r a p e and m u r d e r in Darfur, Sudan, are Muslims, with other Muslims
chosen to be their victims.

Those responsible for the attacks on residential towers in Riyadh and
Khobar were Muslims...

Osama bin Laden is a Muslim. The majority of those who manned the
s u i ci d e b o m b i n g s against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and
buildings, all over the world, were Muslim.

What a pathetic record. What an abominable "achievement." Does all
this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture?

But let us start with putting an end to a history of
denial. Let us acknowledge their reality, instead of denying them and
seeking to justify them with sound and fury signifying nothing.".
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09:52 AM on 07/21/2010
From the same magazine with an article entitled, "Barak Obama's War Against the Jews". Try again, Joe.
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03:57 PM on 07/20/2010
here is a second try at thinking this through:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/beyond-the-veil-a-response/?ref=opinion
03:49 PM on 07/20/2010
Read what other Muslims have to say about their own culture with this article written in 2000:
It's time to face an uncomfortable truth: Muslims can be racists too
By Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, e-mail: y.alibhai-brown@independent.co.uk,

http://www.themodernreligion.com/racism/racism-muslims.html
06:23 PM on 07/20/2010
Only addressing the racist part: Everyone knows Muslims, as people (not following the Qur'an, where does the Qur'an prove racial superiority?), can be racist. Like against Isrealis.
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10:01 AM on 07/21/2010
This article only illustrates what everyone who has half a mind should already know - Muslims are human, just like everyone else. They will commit crimes, will murder, will steal, will rape, will do everything any other human of any religion or nationality will do.

Being Muslim does not excuse you from wrong doing - nor does it provide an excuse for it.
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01:13 PM on 07/21/2010
Islam is not worth the trouble it causes.
01:40 PM on 07/21/2010
"People are not worth the trouble they cause" would be more correct.
03:12 PM on 07/20/2010
To Raigerzero's comment: "You can not criticize what you don't know. You don't know Islam until you have read the Qur'an and discussed with Muslims. "

I HAVE studied the Qur'an; read it for many years; studied the history of Islam. All in my curious youth. I thought I would convert but could not come to terms with all of the hatred and violence advocated within it. The Qur'an and the culture did not fit my feelings of love for all life on this planet.
As Jose Marti said, "There are TWO groups of men in this world: Those that hate and destroy and those that love and create."

Islamists fit into the hateful group. Those that aren't hateful are creating a better world. The Islamists aren't creating, they are just destroying. They are emotional infants.

It's not rocket science....er, ah, ah, I can't think of a term that people from the 8th Century would understand.
06:21 PM on 07/20/2010
No one who has read the Qur'an and discussed with many Muslims can say what you have said with a straight face.

Someone like you, who only spews hate, would never take the read the Qur'an. You support (I can't say proves, like Occam123 likes to abuse) this by your repetition of one-sided quotes, completely false attribution of traits to the Qur'an (Where does the Qur'an promote rape, torture, and killing for no reason as morals values?),

Or you can't read. Or you ignore the 95% of the Qur'an that agrees with your morals. It seems that you have a Anti-Islam website bookmarked that can provide quotes out of context. Anyone who has read the Qur'an should be able to separate Islamic based facts from what corrupt people do. Then make some arguments. You, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, clearly don't do this and base it on your own readings (you probably read Robert Spencer's "The Infidels Guide to the Qur'an", a bias book), and the misconceptions of every one else.

Where does the Qur'an promote random violence? Why do you also ignore the verses that explicitly say that Muslims should be peaceful? If you have read the Qur'an open-minded and still disagree, you would have addressed those verses in your argument, as some atheist kindly take the time to do .

Thus, until you show some more open-mindedness and less hate, I will assume you are being completely untruthful in your claim.
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11:46 AM on 07/21/2010
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is ten times the person you'll ever be.
06:30 PM on 07/20/2010
Seriously, Joe Stack,even if I believed you, what about the good parts of the Qur'an? If you say there are no good parts, I will have no doubt of your ignorance.
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11:47 AM on 07/21/2010
What about the "good parts" of Mein Kampf or the Bible or an Archie comic book?
03:00 PM on 07/20/2010
Islam is a backward cult. Either you believe in the values of the Western world and subscribe to them and defend them or you don't. Take a look at what some of you are defending by calling Islam a "religion" :
The link below shows an example of "Islamic Law"; a society where there is NO due process, NO innocent until proven guilty in a court of law with a jury of your peers....

http://asiapacific.amnesty.org/apro/aproweb.nsf/pages/appeals_pakistan_ASA330122007
06:28 PM on 07/20/2010
That's not Islam. That's Shariah, which is human made and thus susceptible to error.
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11:48 AM on 07/21/2010
Excuse me, are you claiming that Islam isn't human made and susceptible to error? That's outrageous. You should be ashamed of yourself.
12:19 PM on 07/20/2010
Once, Occam123 said:

mmerteuil posted:" Just explain why is it offensive to you that some women choose to cover their faces? "
This is an interesting question.
I would like to address it.

IN my opinion some of the reasons: find veiling disconcerting and frankly repulsive:
Communication with a faceless person is difficult and rather disorienting, without facial clues we depend on so much.
Face veiling is an evidence of total slave-like subjugation to someone else's will ( in this case religious, tribal,familial authorities).
Face-veiling is a one of the representations of religious fundamentalist movement in open and direct belligerent opposition to our way of life.
These outfits are hideous and constitute visual blight.
Burqa is a clear proof of severe subjugation of women we find wildly out of sync with our own way of life. Proof-- fundie men conveniently interpret Koranic edict of modest dress to allow t-shirts and sandals."

Even if I disagree, it was somewhat logical.

Why are you being racist (relionist due to your hate of Islam) now?
12:20 PM on 07/20/2010
Now, you keep saying "fact".
11:05 AM on 07/20/2010
You say the burqa is oppressive. Prove that to be true in the case of the willing.
01:31 PM on 07/20/2010
Salafism is an islamic cult. those who join it do so becuase they're indoctrinated in its dogmas.

Think about it.
12:04 PM on 07/21/2010
Also, I siad burqas don't only exist in Salafism.
06:07 PM on 07/20/2010
You haven't proved anything.
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01:26 PM on 07/21/2010
You're a fanatic. Of course you'll oppose anything that conflicts with your dogmatism.
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10:07 AM on 07/20/2010
"This really is about positive discrimination, in women's favour. Our religion says there should be no public contact between men and women, this modesty barrier must not be broken."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6584661.stm
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jweider
I know where my towel is
10:30 AM on 07/20/2010
All of these religious people need to snap out of it and evolve into thinking human beings.
01:31 PM on 07/20/2010
Precisely, Jweider!!!. Fanned.
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09:49 AM on 07/20/2010
"Head-covering veils would not be included in a ban as they form a part of traditional Spanish dress, with women often covering their heads with a garment called a mantilla, especially during church services in the south of the country".
This statement does away with any pretense of secularism or security being the root of this ban. It's obvious - if a head covering is used by Christians, it's allowed; otherwise it's banned.
02:30 PM on 07/20/2010
Argue about a totally unrelated point which has nothing to do with the issue,
No surprise. CyberJiahdsits like this one would lie about anything, just to stay in practice.

Child, he ban is on face covering , not head covering. No one is banning anyone from covering their head. it is the faceless bags that are being banned all over Europe.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StealGeorgia
I am not boycotting the walrus
10:56 PM on 07/20/2010
Of course the tradition of veils in the south of the country came from the conquerors of it perhaps? What was that invasion? Lets see. Was it the moors? In the year 711, what religion were the Moors? Was it ... oh I don't know... the so-called "religion of peace"?
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12:09 AM on 07/21/2010
All Orthodox Christians all over the world cover their heads in Church.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
nubret2008
09:02 AM on 07/20/2010
If they were authentic about their motives and reasons to ban the burqa they wouldn't have banned the cloth but put the domestic force to wear one under penalty. To call a ban a means of freedom is paradox and absurd. Putting pressure on islamists obviously is looking different.
09:32 AM on 07/20/2010
Yes
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07:45 AM on 07/20/2010
"The state is much clearer: It is the political directorate of the nation. How the leaders are selected and how they govern varies widely. The relationship of the state to the nation also varies widely. All nations do not have states. Some are occupied by other nation-states. Some are divided between multiple states. Some are part of an entity that governs many nations. And some are communities that have developed systems of government that do not involve states, although this is increasingly rare."

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100719_geopolitics_nationalism_and_dual_citizenship?utm_source=GWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1007020&utm_content=readmore&elq=8f755c0fde414680a908db9ba23617b9

For sharia compliant Muslims, Islam is a nation that commands the loyalty of "love of one's own" and a state with its own constitution and legal system. Hence the conflict the observant Muslims feel between their faith and their citizenship.
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07:31 AM on 07/20/2010
The burqa issue is so hot because it touches on cultural identity. Every person has more than one cultural identifier for sure, but the conflict between religious and national identities often creates the deepest conflict.

"The idea of nation is not always clear. At root, a nation is a group of people who share a fate, and with that fate, an identity. Nations can be consciously created, as the United States was. Nations can exist for hundreds or thousands of years, as seen in parts of Europe or Asia. However long a nation exists and whatever its origins, a nation is founded on what I’ve called elsewhere “love of one’s own,” a unique relationship with the community in which an individual is born or to which he chose to come. That affinity is the foundation of a nation."

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100719_geopolitics_nationalism_and_dual_citizenship?utm_source=GWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1007020&utm_content=readmore&elq=8f755c0fde414680a908db9ba23617b9