After Katrina, New Orleans Cops Were Told They Could Shoot Looters

ProPublica:

In the chaotic days after Hurricane Katrina, an order circulated among New Orleans police authorizing officers to shoot looters, according to present and former members of the department.

Read the whole story: ProPublica

Comments

[luziannagirl]

12:56 PM on 08/26/2010

Well, argument over whether NOPD misbehaved or not and the degree of misbehavior aside...

I just happened to hear a caller to WWL 870 AM's "Think Tank" with Garland Robinette say that his brother, Chris Stevens, age 50, resident of the Mid-City section of New Orleans, has been missing since Hurricane Katrina. The caller said he and his family had enlisted the aid of the Red Cross and every other agency they could think of, but no trace of Chris. Someone claimed to have seen him in New Mexico in the years since, but the caller said they can find no evidence his brother was ever in that state.

If anyone wants more information, or thinks they might have information about the whereabouts of this missing New Orleanian, I'd say to contact the show. Contact information should be on the WWL website.

Especially after seeing the most recent "Frontline" about what happened to a Mr. Glover in Algiers, uncovered by ProPublica, and hearing many rumors about people just "gotten rid of" in the days of civil breakdown following Katrina, it doesn't sound good for Mr. Stevens.

[urfree2speak]

07:46 AM on 08/26/2010

The interesting thing is that they are focusing on only ONE agency, Take it for what its worth.

[PCMinistry]

05:23 PM on 08/25/2010

These "people" really handled their situation well. First they ignore warnings to evacuate. Then they get flooded and proceed to try and steal TVs and and other goods, probably Jordan sneakers...and then when they get in the dome they rob and rape each other silly until officers could restore some order and get them shipped out. And it was everyone else's fault.

[luziannagirl]

11:48 PM on 08/27/2010

A) Few ignored warnings to evacuate. Many if not most had to stay because they had no car. GW Bush didn't send buses to get them until five days after the levees broke. Would you have had 40-50 thousand people including the disabled, infirm, pregnant, infants, and elderly, walk 30 miles across the causeway? Or, maybe swam?

B) No one raped or killed anyone at the Dome. That was rumor, unfortunately spread by mainstream media, attempting to further juke up an already sensational story. It was then picked up by local officials. All it did was spread the impression that N.O. had become a war zone. It was bad, and yes there was lawlessness and looting, but it was not as bad as portrayed on TV.

C) The main fault with the citizens of New Orleans was for decades not having voting for better elected officials. Otherwise...they were let down terribly by this country's federal government.

[jayevans20]

05:06 PM on 08/25/2010

Or vise versa!

[D8TA]

04:02 PM on 08/25/2010

"The accounts of orders to "shoot looters," "take back the city," or "do what you have to do" are fragmentary. It remains unclear who originated them or whether they were heard by any of the officers involved in shooting 11 civilians in the days after Katrina".

Questions to be asked:
Did the Police/National Guad initiate or give the order?
Did the Police/National Guard take matters in their own hands?
Answer: No.

Who did?
Answer:Kathleen Blanco(D) then governor of Louisiana.
And may I point out the article did not even mention her name, when many sources did?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1451906.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=901
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/02/katrina.impact/

[glockman]

03:40 PM on 08/25/2010

Interesting video to watch at this link:

http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/2553783-Were-NO-cops-told-to-shoot-looters-after-Katrina/

[luziannagirl]

03:25 PM on 08/25/2010

I will say just one more thing to the folks who broadly proclaim the shooting of looters to be "murder for property".

The average American will not so much as give up his/her place in traffic, so don't tell me if it were YOU, you'd willingly give up all your possessions (all you couldn't carry to a public shelter that is) to a stranger who simply wanted them for whatever reason.

Hungry? Take food out the kitchen. Thirsty? Take all the canned drinks and bottled water. Need clean clothes? Help yourself to whatever you can wear. Diapers? Same.

But TV's, electronics, guns, jewelry...nope. That's just stealing.

And you know what, it's really, really difficult to have a functional, thriving city when every couple of years, all its residents realize they may well lose all they own to a bunch of roving criminals.

Looting is a scourge. Those who aren't threatened with it on a regular basis have no idea what it's like to live with that hanging over your head. The fear of losing everything to looting can bleed the life out of an entire city.

I don't blame our Algiers relatives one bit for staying put, either.

[afrodesia]

02:25 PM on 08/25/2010

The nerve. N.O.PD. With their less than stellar reputation to begin with.
Yippee! Legalized, open season on as many 'dark ones' as you can find!

It was not enough that Black folks took the brunt of the disaster and were left stranded for days on end in the hateful heat. "By any means necessary kill off as many as you can by with holding help for a s long as possible, and then kill the remaining hold outs still alive and trying to stay alive. "Here is our chance at a finale solution to the Negro problem in New Orleans."

[luziannagirl]

03:51 PM on 08/25/2010

afrodesia I do agree that the NOPD needs cleaning up. Badly.

I don't agree that NOPD declared an "open season on ... 'dark ones'" . Some of the officers doing the shootings were black, too.

It's more a negative police culture---knock heads and sort them out later--- than anything. It does tend to fall along racial lines, but whites get hammered by NOPD, too. I have stories.

As far as the ..."final solution to the Negro problem"...---that's a harsh statement, for sure. I do think there's some truth to it, however, but not on the part of NOPD, but the Republican Bush/Cheney administration. "Death by politics" for over 1000 Americans.

Pre-Katrina New Orleans was a poor city, with per capita income far below national average. Poverty and class divisions tended to fall along racial lines, but the lines aren't necessarily the same ones most people think. There are three main "races" in New Orleans, and they all have their different dynamics issues, histories, and points of friction.

It is a nuanced situation, but one I have hopes will finally be addressed.

I do think things are changing for the better, which is another topic, but these old wounds need to be opened up and aired out lest they keep festering.

[afrodesia]

07:09 PM on 08/25/2010

F & F..Thank you for filling in the gaps. Especially regarding B & C. It had long been rumored that dismantling the Civil Rights act was high on the Republican parties hit list.

As to Black officers taking part. I never had any doubt about that when I made the statement. Police culture is a law unto it self. You are always going to have self haters and the corrupt proving they are 'one of us' by taking part in this kind of thing.

Clearly these are men that get joy in the kill. I pray that all of the police departments across America with the worse human rights violations (murders of unarmed citizens)
come under all kinds of pressure to end this kind of culture within police departments.

[D8TA]

05:22 PM on 08/25/2010

Kathleen Blanco, the Democrat governor of Louisiana, threatened looters with a shoot-to-kill policy. "These troops are battle-tested. They have M16s and are locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=901

The nerve of who again?

[afrodesia]

09:40 PM on 08/25/2010

It's Louisiana for gosh sakes.

[Y2KCockroach]

02:25 PM on 08/25/2010

"If you can sleep with it, do it,".

That's the credo of the New Orleans Police Service, isn't it?

[Marnie1]

02:14 PM on 08/25/2010

There are a number of things about this issue that are deeply disturbing.
What bothers me most is that a city that has, in any given summer, a high probability of being hit by a hurricane apparently had not bothered to prepare for one.
No emergency plan, facilities, materials, procedures or training.

Rick Perry (the AxxHxxx governor in Texas) was more prepared for New Orlean's emergency than New Orleans or Louisiana was. Little Galveston Island with only one road to escape by is better prepared than the whole state of Louisiana.

That's just pathetic.

It's mind boggling.

[luziannagirl]

03:41 PM on 08/25/2010

BS Marnie.

People actually died evacuating the TX coast. No contra-flow, no preparation. It was a disaster.

Louisiana did a much better job pre-storm, with the givens.

TX coastal towns and cities like Galveston and Houston are all vehicle-oriented and spread out. New Orleans isn't. It is a real city, an urban environment like Manhattan, Old San Francisco, London, Brussels, or Paris. Residents walk and use public transport. Most of those stranded in the city did not have cars, partly because they did not need them and found them a bother. Cars have to be parked somewhere, and if every New Orleans resident had one, it would look like any other ugly sprawling American city.

America failed in protecting these urbanites who were vulnerable in this instance, BECAUSE of their sustainable urban lifestyle.

Of course most Americans have never BEEN to any of those real-city places so they have no idea what I'm talking about...and that's what's really pathetic.

[Morganster]

01:36 PM on 08/25/2010

Sorry, but this story does not wash!

No one can authorize a sworn Police or Peace Officer of the United States to violate the Constitution - and the officers know this.

Under US law, officers CANNOT shoot someone to protect property.

The only way an officer is justified to shoot someone is if that person is presenting an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury, to the officer or another person.

Stealing property does not place anyone's life in danger and shooting to prevent stealing is never justified under US law.

[Zero2Sixty]

01:02 PM on 08/25/2010

I pray that the truth will reveal itself as it always does!

[Lyr]

12:48 PM on 08/25/2010

Shooting people for looting? excessive much? This just lays bare the fact that the government is just an armed band of thugs that demand obedience...or else.

[afrodesia]

09:50 PM on 08/25/2010

Well, try and tell the ignorant people.

[AndyWright68]

12:22 PM on 08/25/2010

Cops already have authority to murder unarmed citizens. They do not need an order. Cops are out of control. They tazer 3 year olds to 89 year olds just for not complying. Anyone capable of defending themselves from these abusive bullies they shoot dead.

[Totto]

12:32 PM on 08/25/2010

Exactly. A young learning driver smashed into my car while it was in my driveway. She became hysterical and started sobbing. When police arrived, one cop looked at her, then looked at me and assumed that I must be at fault. Ordered me to sit on the ground in front of my own home, while he put his hand on his taser. Luckily, he figured out that she had caused the whole mess, and I'm still here.

[afrodesia]

09:56 PM on 08/25/2010

And Anglo perhaps...

[kiddub]

12:35 PM on 08/25/2010

hmmmm. No. Individual police officers have done everything you have described, but police as a whole are not represented by that type of behaviour. And if there were time machines, I would invite you to return to a far more peaceful time, where police were not violent, nor were there members who were beholden to certain groups. Look at the role of police in union breaking chicago at the turn of the last century. Cops are more professionalised, educated and trained than they ever have been.

[AndyWright68]

12:09 AM on 08/26/2010

Cops are more controlling, abusive and militarized than ever before. Anyone who disobeys a direct order gets abused and charged with catch-all charges like disorderly conduct or the mysterious lone charge of resisting arrest. Cops are out of control with power and they have the highest rates of domestic violence, alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide and murder suicide. The crimes they get away with will never be tracked as their victims fear their unfettered power. Even cops that are blatantly guilty of serious crimes walk free. No. Power corrupts and that is a fact. These bullies with badges have the poorest training in history. They are told that we are their enemy. Cops protect and serve the state, not the people. Cops control the people with fear and intimidation just like the mafia except cops are above the law. Cops have the same code of silence as the mafia, street gangs and drug cartels do. This makes all cops bad. If people fear people having power over them then the answer is not to give people power over them. When you create a position of power those who seek power will gravitate to that position. We would be much safe and much better off without cops.

[carolo]

12:19 PM on 08/25/2010

Stealing food, diapers and water to sustain your life is one thing. To steal a new purse, a stereo or a wide screen TV when you had no home standing was stupid. Medical doctors broke into a pharmacy to get medication to treat the injured. Should they be treated the same as drug addicts stealing for themselves? How can you tell which ones should be shot and which one are trying to keep their family alive?

Strange that so many of the lotters only saw this as an opportunity to get their crubby hands on something for themselves.

[Zero2Sixty]

12:45 PM on 08/25/2010

Agreed! There's a big difference between carrying a loaf of bread, a bottle of water and carrying a flat screen out of the store.

[Lyr]

12:52 PM on 08/25/2010

Should looting a TV cost someone their life? without a trial? How in the world does stealing anything justify summary execution?

[Zero2Sixty]

01:01 PM on 08/25/2010

Looting anything should NEVER cost anyone their life. They should be allowed due process. The point is that these officers did not use common sense and had an excuse to kill other human beings. SAD!! Common sense would be bread/water equals survival and a flat screen clearly does not!

[caffeineod]

04:44 PM on 08/25/2010

It is not uncommon for looters to be shot and it is a policy most people who have lived through tragedy will agree with. Now, that more people have guns, the next earthquake in LA will be interesting, as, immediately after the last big one, the looting was massive and done, hate to say, by immigrants of the Latino persuasion....Korean immigrants with guns showed the rest of us how to deal with looters...