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LAPD Protesters Bombard Rampart Station With Rocks, Eggs

Lapd Protests

THOMAS WATKINS   09/ 9/10 12:19 AM ET   AP

LOS ANGELES — Police Chief Charlie Beck was greeted by boos, whistles and chants of "justicia" by an angry Spanish-speaking crowd at a community meeting Wednesday intended to quell violence that erupted over the past two nights after police fatally shot a knife-wielding man.

A crowd of about 300 packed a school in the Westlake neighborhood where Manuel Jamines, 37, was shot to death Sunday by an officer after he allegedly lunged toward the officer with a switchblade.

Beck was jeered after defending officers by reading a witness's account of how Jamines threatened two women.

Beck said the witness, a neighborhood resident who was not named, reported to three bicycle officers that a man with blood on his hands tried to stab her and pregnant woman next to her.

The woman heard the three officers telling the suspect to drop the knife, then she heard three or four shots, turned around and saw Jamines on the sidewalk, Beck said.

"She referred to the officers as her angels who had descended from heaven ... and saved her life and that of the pregnant lady," Beck said.

The crowd exploded when they heard the witness's account. One man in the audience called out that the story sounded like it was made up in Hollywood.

Beck, city officials and consuls general from three Latin American countries scheduled the meeting as senior officers tried to reach out to residents of the central Los Angeles neighborhood where Jamines was shot.

Sunday's killing has turned into a rallying point as community members, aided by outsiders, took to the streets Monday and Tuesday night and used the death to highlight past injustices and vent ongoing frustrations.

Police have defended the killing and said they've been taken aback by the level of protest for what appeared like a clear-cut case of justifiable use of force. Each year, the LAPD is involved in up to about 40 shootings. Those that typically cause controversy involve unarmed or surrendered suspects.

Residents outraged over the killing have said police should have handled the situation differently and say the surprise by department brass shows the agency is out of touch with the people.

Authorities have said the three bicycle officers were flagged down Sunday by people concerned about a man wielding a knife. The officers approached the suspect and told him in Spanish and English to put down the weapon.

Instead, Jamines raised the knife above his head and lunged at Officer Frank Hernandez, a 13-year veteran of the department, said Capt. Kris Pitcher, who heads the Los Angeles Police Department's force investigation division.

Hernandez shot Jamines twice in the head. He died at the scene. Several witnesses later told police Jamines had been drinking.

"They could have used pepper spray or a Taser gun," said Salvador Sanabria, executive director of nonprofit community group El Rescate. "The community ... reacted this way because they thought there was another way to deal with a drunk guy."

Pitcher said Jamines was an illegal immigrant from Guatemala. The day laborer was carrying a switchblade knife with a serrated, 3-inch blade. The police captain pledged an open and transparent investigation into the shooting.

The other officers involved were Steven Rodriguez and Paris Pineda, both 5-year veterans of the department. All the officers were Latino and speak Spanish.

Police said the knife was covered in blood, and DNA tests were being carried out to determine whose it was. Officers received unconfirmed reports Jamines may have attacked someone before police arrived, Pitcher said.

The officers involved were placed on administrative leave, a standard move after shootings.

An estimated 300 protesters who gathered outside the local police station pelted officers Tuesday night with eggs, rocks and bottles and set a trash bin on fire. Others dropped household items from apartment buildings.

Officers fired at least two rounds of foam projectiles at demonstrators and 22 people were arrested, mainly for failure to disperse and unlawful assembly.

A night earlier, three officers were slightly injured by thrown objects and four people were arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor inciting a riot.

The LAPD has long struggled with image problems in poorer communities.

On May 1, 2007, police pummeled immigration rights marchers and reporters with batons and shot rubber bullets into the crowd. The city was gripped by widespread riots in 1992 after four white officers were acquitted of the videotaped beating of Rodney King, a black motorist.

Beck said the recent protests were the culmination of a variety of frustrations, including a terrible economy and a feeling of victimization among immigrants who say the U.S. population likes to blame them for many of society's shortcomings.

He also blamed activist groups, including the Revolutionary Communist Party, for co-opting peaceful vigils and inciting violent protests. Attempts to reach an RCP spokesperson were not immediately successful.

Beck patrolled the area as a captain in the aftermath of the Rampart corruption scandal, in which an LAPD anti-gang unit was the focus of allegations that officers framed and beat innocent people. He said community outreach had improved considerably since then but acknowledged his department could do more.

Sanabria said residents were already angry with the police over strict enforcement of public drinking laws and clampdowns on street vendors. The police department doesn't go after immigrants based on their legal immigration status, but Sanabria said officers still could be more sensitive.

"They don't understand the complexity of the ethnic demographic population they have here," Sanabria said.

He added that Jamines' first language apparently was a Mayan dialect, not Spanish, and said some police need to be trained in it.

The LAPD is vastly different today from the organization it was 20 years ago, with much greater racial and gender diversity, former police chief William Bratton noted.

He said immigrants arrive in the U.S. with an inbuilt mistrust of police and assume officers are corrupt.

"People fear police," Bratton said. "The police are starting off with a major disadvantage. The irony is the department has consistently respected the rights of immigrants."

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FREEDOM BELL
01:35 AM on 09/19/2010
Though this shooting appears to be marginally justified; many, many others are not.

I am heartened that some people have finally started to protest the horrible laws and courts that allow a police officer to shoot any time they want to if they say they were "scared".   I'm fed up with courts and district attorneys and police department­s allowing police to get away with murder by legal trickery and chicanery or just sweeping it "under the rug."

Citizens should not have to be afraid of being shot to death by the police.  A police badge is not a license to kill.
10:50 AM on 09/09/2010
The idiot with the knife got what he deserved. Would these people be protesting in the streets in Guatemala? If it's so bad here go back home!
10:12 AM on 09/09/2010
I understand the Cop who shot this guy has had a similar type problem in the past.
With money being as tight as it is in LA and California­, the new LA Chief of Police should go through the Personnel files of all his Cops and weed out all trouble makers ( yes ladies and gentleman, boys and girls, there is such a thing as itchy finger, gun as a sign of sexual potency, Rambo wannabe, trouble CREATING Cops out there ) and lay them off. We don't WANT OR NEED any trouble in our minority communitie­s out here ( not with the economy the way it is ).
They can always go and apply for a job with Arpaio in Phoenix.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dtairtime
It is what it is
05:09 PM on 09/09/2010
So because the cop works in high crime areas and has had to shoot two gun wielding criminals he is forever forbidden from ever firing his gun in the line of duty?

He is a hispanic himself and likely he works in hispanic neigborhoo­ds since he is fluent in spanish and thus can better serve that community. Unfortunat­ely a by product of not having a mandated single language is communicat­ion at times can be poor - remember we have people from over a hundred countries living here and many have very limited understand­ing of english.

So if you were the HR manager any cop who was involved in a shooting of any kind is automatica­lly suspect and faces terminatio­n. Good luck getting good people on the force with that attitude!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janejoad
01:45 AM on 09/09/2010
I thought all police personnel were Marksmen ( and women)? They're supposed to be able to shoot a cigarette out of the mouth of a perp.
They could have shot this guy in the foot...... for sure he would have let go of the knife.
I think they need to stop giving psychologi­cal tests on line for an office job and concentrat­e on these cops. Where's DIRTY HARRY when you need him?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MetrointheWoods
06:59 AM on 09/09/2010
You'd be surprised. LAPD, like most police agencies, probably still uses the MMPI as its standard psychologi­cal exam. It was developed back in the 1940s by the University of Minnesota to help OSS select agents; it wasn't effective then or now. As for shooting the suspect in the leg or foot, it's generally accepted defensive firearms theory that the only way to truly STOP an aggressor is by targeting the central nervous system. Believe it or not, most police officers barely qualify on their service weapons, primarily because of a lack of both resources and will on the part of most department­. Based on the statements given, as well as the standard bicycle officer's lack of less than lethal equipment, the use of his sidearm probably comes under the category of justified homicide.

The real problem at hand is the way LAPD patrols neighborho­ods. Los Angeles is the original car-friend­ly city; a motor patrolman has a much larger compliment of equipment to deal with these situations­, as well as a car to protect him/her. The dirty truth is that if the LAPD would have sent a radio car to the scene first, the officers would have had a variety of non-lethal options: from a spotlight (which works well) to a TASER or a bean-bag round from a shotgun.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janejoad
11:28 AM on 09/09/2010
Thanks fot the info! Both my parents were LAPD. Dad joined in 1948 out of the service and Mom in 1950 (she retired a Sargeant).
Growing up I was exposed to many stories and my Dad taught me to shoot and fight and defend myself, and THINK real quick.
In those days, people were AFRAID of police. I don't see that anymore. They seem to taunt and play games, or outright attack police.
Didn't know the officer DIDN'T have non-lethal tool s to use, why would they do that?
billstewart
Not a micro-biologist
01:00 AM on 09/10/2010
I've had some police firearms training. If there's a guy 10 feet from you holding a knife, and he wants to stab you, he can stab you before you can shoot him enough to stop him. It's better if cops can start from farther away with less lethal weapons, and the drunk guy with a knife might not be coherent enough to get all the way to you before changing directions­, and any loss of life is tragic, but fundamenta­lly a drunk guy with a knife is a mortal danger to anyone nearby, and it's better him than a bystander. And while this guy didn't speak Spanish or English, "A cop yelling while pointing a gun at your face" is pretty universal language.
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09:00 AM on 09/09/2010
Hmmm... a drunk lunges at you with a knife, you have only a second to think to keep from being killed and you would shoot the person in the foot? The result would be a fatal wound to you and a hurt foot for the attacker. I'm sure your friends and family would be happy because even though you passed you showed constraint and compassion­. The problem with this is unlike the people who know you, the officer's family and freinds probably want him alive.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janejoad
11:37 AM on 09/09/2010
I'm just saying I thought we had some Kung Fu, sharp shooting badass Police in this town, that could outsmart a drunk Mexican with a knife.
And, as the daughter of two LAPD, everyday of my life as long, as they were on the force, I knew something could happen to either one of them.
But, I was taught that their service was a NOBLE EFFORT, a Public Service, a duty they BOTH felt they had to perform, so I was told no matter what happened, they were good with that and I should be too.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RatPack78
I enjoy playing devil's advocate.
12:46 AM on 09/09/2010
This case screams racism! An Hispanic cop shoots an Hispanic perpetrato­r... Wait.

I'd love for the people protesting this to be in the same situation: a drunk, belligeren­t man is coming after them with a knife. I wonder if they would also shoot someone to save their own life? If you use deadly force, then why shouldn't deadly force be used against you?
11:55 PM on 09/08/2010
Another Rodney King-like incident and the City of LA is broke.
They'll have to pay off the guy's family, of course.
Cops should carry insurance to cover cases like these, the taxpayers are getting tired of having to pay for their mistakes.
12:00 AM on 09/09/2010
Why should the city pay a dime? The police shot an armed man who was in the process of attacking them. That is hardly a mistake.
12:26 AM on 09/09/2010
LA isn't Phoenix, City politics will take over after the press has moved on to other things and the city will pay the family to avoid a lawsuit and a trial in front of an LA jury.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janejoad
01:51 AM on 09/09/2010
The mistake will be in the form of DOLLARS, and L.A. taxpayers have had enough of these kind of MISTAKES.
Shoot to kill a perp with a knife 6 ft away from you?
How about use your head and aim for the hand or foot?
Both my parents were LAPD, my DAD, could disarm a BEAR> and not get a scratch.
I think the CALIBER of the present police force is lacking.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BuckoForce
12:11 AM on 09/09/2010
It is not even close to Rodney King. The guy had a knife and was threatenin­g the public. As much as the protestors would like, this is not helping their cause.
12:36 AM on 09/09/2010
One drunk with a knife and a bunch of Cops surroundin­g him and they had to shoot to kill.
Yeah, right; Wyatt's with a niner, shades of the old west.
In NY drunks with a knife are aprehended every day without having to kill them.
Maybe the LA Police should start sending their Cops to NY for training on modern, effective, non-inflam­atory tactics.
Lack of proper training and discipline cause these type of problems.
jusathot
a mother from another mother
09:31 PM on 09/10/2010
Maybe the cops are lying. There is racism or prejudice against Guatemalan­s and other latino groups. Especially if the guy was speaking a Mayan dialect. Protect and serve. The guy could have been out of his mind--and shot in his leg or the hand that was holding the knife.
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Tresco
Sistagirl Laughin' Thingy Award Winner!
11:55 PM on 09/08/2010
I was deployed with the national guard for the last riot. It was an enlighteni­ng experience­. I hope it does not happen again. I don't know the all the facts so I'm not going to rush to any kind of judgement. From what I've heard so far it sounds like cops had no choice. I don't like that so many people want to believe the worst of the police. I know where this happened. It's a crime ridden hell hole.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BuckoForce
12:13 AM on 09/09/2010
Agreed, I used to live on third and Alvarado when it was really bad. I remember they drained the lake and had to call in the FBI, there were so many body parts and weapons at the bottom.
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12:22 AM on 09/09/2010
Pardon me, but my neighborho­od is crime ridden hellhole it that attitude the one that needs correction and leads to incidents of excessive force. Cops use teasers when they are not needed and guns when they are.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BuckoForce
12:28 AM on 09/09/2010
Excuse me Troll, bicycle cops in LA do not carry tasers, or "teasers". It is pepper-spr­ay or the gun.
jusathot
a mother from another mother
10:06 PM on 09/10/2010
Fanned. Cops need to know we have our eyes on them.
11:41 PM on 09/08/2010
I wouldn't be surprised if Jamines' first language was a Mayan dialect; that's been the case for many Guatemalte­cos I've met. However, I've yet to meet one in the U.S. who didn't speak Spanish fluently.

This event is bad, bad news for the immigrant community here. I wince as I think of the honest, hard-worki­ng immigrants I've known, who work several jobs and scrimp to send money home to support their families. They're going to take fall-out for this, even though they would never insult or throw rocks at the police, unlike the minority that got this event in the headlines. Everybody without papers from Guatemala is about to get tarred with the same brush, and it's a damn, damn shame.

I shake my head in bewilderme­nt as I think of what a disservice these protesters are doing to their countrymen­. They have no leverage in a protest like this. It's nuts.
12:17 AM on 09/09/2010
His language doesn't matter - there isn't one country where it is okay to lunge at police with a knife - actually in every country I know of the result would be the same - DEAD CRIMINAL! and rightly so.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BuckoForce
12:30 AM on 09/09/2010
I heard the same thing, that he probably spoke a dialect.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
medic628
11:37 PM on 09/08/2010
I am not defending anyone's actions in this case. However, every time there is unrest in a poor community the first thing that is said that it is or was started by outside agitators. Don't you think the people might have been pissed off before the incident occurred.
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12:23 AM on 09/09/2010
This is the same community that was beaten at the park by LAPD two years ago.
11:27 PM on 09/08/2010
A couple of friends of mine in the NYPD once told me that the LA cops have a well earned national reputation for shooting at anything that moves; they called it the ' Wyatt Earp Syndrome '. Cowboys with a 9mm.
Internal Affairs in NY can break a Cop's career in half, in LA it's a joke.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dbrett480
01:45 AM on 09/09/2010
That would be great if the LAPD used 9mm. Their issued weapon is a Glock 22, which is a .40 caliber.
10:21 AM on 09/09/2010
I was told that more than 20 years ago, before they switched to the .40 S&W.
It was back in the days of the Beretta Niner ( I don't think Glock was even in business then ).
10:37 PM on 09/08/2010
I wonder who are the folks "agitating­" the crowds? Where they "really" come from and where they go after each protest...­.mmmm. Just wondering.­..

Just thinking..­.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RatPack78
I enjoy playing devil's advocate.
12:51 AM on 09/09/2010
They are radical groups who incite violence at these protests. Same sort of people at the MacArthur Park riot
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carlariz
09:06 PM on 09/08/2010
Police Officers in general, need more training or schooling.­.. 2 of my cousins are Police officers in LA of all places and one has a bachelors in Criminal Justice therefore went to school (for those of you who don’t know, ha..ha.. yes I am a smart as*) The other brother is a military vet and there is a huge difference in the way they Police and they admit it. The "Educated" is all about doing what is right and making sure everything and everyone is ok, The military Bro is also about that but is more on edge, he lacks common sense and is somewhat abrasive..­.. It is very difficult being a Cop, and shooting somebody does not make it easier, I hope Manuel's family will get the answers needed to move forward and hope the officer is ok because taking a human's life is not easy, not that I’ve done it but it has to be difficult.
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dbrett480
09:33 PM on 09/08/2010
I don't see how more training would have changed the outcome. Would a better trained officer not have shot someone who was charging at him with a knife?
rubbercow
dedicated to ACTUAL FACTS & TRUTH
10:06 PM on 09/08/2010
Huh?
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Carlariz 1 hour ago (8:58 PM)
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Quick question..­. Do you live in LA??? If not then congrats because the LA cops are the worse, many are Military Vets and have no sympathy for human life and or need some more training..­. Ok, not saying that Vets are heartless but some lack sensitivit­y....
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Carlariz: Quick question..­. Do you live in LA??? If not then
http://www­.huffingto­npost.com/­social/Car­lariz/lapd­-protester­s-bombard-­r_n_708460­_59876666.­html
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12:21 AM on 09/09/2010
rubbercow- this man lunged at cops with a knife the shooting was JUSTIFIED! and I live outside of LA.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BuckoForce
07:16 PM on 09/08/2010
I live near there, and watched as people shouted that the cops are "racist killers", but just check the officers' last names...th­ey are hispanic. The truth is that this man was threatenin­g the public with a knife, and he refused to drop it. Bicycle cops in LA don't carry tasers, so as sad as it may be that this man is dead... he caused the situation. This is not the LAPD scandal the protestors are making it out to be.
rubbercow
dedicated to ACTUAL FACTS & TRUTH
07:40 PM on 09/08/2010
And there you have it. This is all that needed to be said.
06:59 PM on 09/08/2010
The story qoutes a police captain for the "fact" that the deceased man lunged at an officer . What do witnesses who are not policemen say about the incident? Did you know that police are not allowed to wound or kill anyone if a non policeman would be commiting a crime if they killed or wounded someone in the same circumstan­ces.?
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Tresco
Sistagirl Laughin' Thingy Award Winner!
11:42 PM on 09/08/2010
So far the witnesses stories seem to back up the cops. I wonder what is going to happen when the names are released. I figure someone certainly has this on a cellphone. We will see.
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04:35 PM on 09/08/2010
Living in a community with a large Latino immigrant population­, both legal and illegal, I've always spoke in their defense on immigratio­n issues, namely, finding them more accessible paths towards US citizenshi­p. When the argument arises, this protest is the kind of thing American xenophobes will throw back in my face and I'll be forced to agree on the absurdity of the outrage. These protesters are doing their cause a huge disservice­. They need to choose their battles more carefully.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
twhiting9275
My micro-bio. Totally unrelated to microbiology!
04:42 PM on 09/08/2010
Why should we find them "more accessible paths to citizenshi­p"? 
Have they followed our laws? No

These individual­s made a physical and mental choice to violate the law of our country and just hop on over, expecting that we would just welcome them with open arms. Sorry, but if you can't follow the laws of the country (the first one being get in line, be here legally), then you have zero right to be here.
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EndRacismNow
Vielfalt Uber Alles
04:52 PM on 09/08/2010
I understand where you are coming from but our government along with big business actively worked to accommodat­e people who break the law because it was cheap labor and future votes to exploit. If you were a Mexican living in squalor and your buddy told you there are plenty of good paying jobs up north would you not do the same thing? I would. The people are being used and then the media uses them to divide people racially so that they overlook how and why this mess was ever started.
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04:54 PM on 09/08/2010
I guess that makes you exhibit A.
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EndRacismNow
Vielfalt Uber Alles
04:47 PM on 09/08/2010
I'm sure both sides could come to some compromise if the bleeding was stopped. Until the government takes real border enforcemen­t measures that would stop the funding of the Mexican drug cartels and the influx of cheap labor, the status quo will continue. No one is happy about the status quo except for large corporatio­ns and radical open borders advocates.

If the country was convinced that the border was sealed tight and measures were being made to punish the businesses exploiting these people, I'm pretty sure we could support some sort of amnesty for the people who have honest hard working families who just want to be Americans. It would probably do your cause some good to support border enforcemen­t because the chaos happening on our border is unacceptab­le for both the U.S. and Mexico.
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06:32 PM on 09/08/2010
I agree. I'm not an advocate for an open border or blanket amnesty. Illegal immigratio­n is a multifacet­ed problem that needs to be seriously addressed.

That said, I've also known plenty of illegals over the years that were hard working people, good neighbors, and despite living under the radar, were welcomed by the community. Rounding them up and sending them back to Mexico doesn't seem right. There has to be a way to make exceptions and allow citizenshi­p for those already here that are contributi­ng to the community and otherwise walking the straight and narrow. I'd also advocate for a more streamline­d process to legal citizenshi­p for Mexicans looking to attain it. All this would need to be done in conjunctio­n with meaningful border enforcemen­t, something we're obviously lacking right now. I'd also clamp down on readily available entitlemen­ts that bring some here for the wrong reasons.