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Alexi Giannoulias, Mark Kirk Exchange Harsh Words, Old Accusations In Final Debate (VIDEO)

Kirk Alexi

First Posted: 10/28/10 10:36 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 07:10 PM ET

BY: CHRISTOPHER WILLS

CHICAGO (AP) -- The candidates for President Barack Obama's former Senate seat assailed each other as immature, indecisive and dishonest Wednesday in a debate that revisited familiar disagreements in unusually harsh tones.

Republican U.S. Rep. Mark Kirk called Democrat Alexi Giannoulias "immature" for not giving a clear explanation of whether he would have voted for the financial industry bailout if he'd been a senator in 2008.

Giannoulias, the state treasurer, shot back that Kirk has often flip-flopped and changed positions. He said being lectured by Kirk on decisiveness was "the most remarkable irony in the history of Illinois politics."

Pressed on his strong support for the invasion of Iraq, Kirk claimed the Bush administration had lied to him about evidence that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The five-term congressman said a Central Intelligence Agency official "absolutely" lied.

Each candidate attempted to defend himself on a key issue that has haunted them.

For Kirk, it was the fact that he exaggerated his accomplishments as intelligence officer in the Navy Reserve, even claiming an award that went to his unit, not to him personally.

Kirk repeated his apologies for the false statements, saying he had been careless. Debate moderator Phil Ponce pushed Kirk to explain why he ever felt the need to exaggerate his record, but Kirk didn't answer.

Instead, he sought to go on the offensive by criticizing Giannoulias for making a political issue of the false statements.

"My opponent has based nearly all of his campaign on a military record - my military record. He hasn't served a day in uniform in his life," said Kirk, a commander with 21 years in the reserves. "I very much believe in this country."

Giannoulias ducked a question about his own political millstone - the fact that his family's Broadway Bank lent money to at least two men involved in organized crime. Giannoulias said the bank didn't do anything illegal or improper, but he would not explain just what he and other bank executives knew about the men's criminal history before deciding to approve the loans.

He, too, tried to turn the tables. Giannoulias read a list of criminals who have donated money to Kirk's campaign over the years. "If we want to play these guilt by association attacks, let's do it," he said.

Kirk responded that he had returned the donations from the people Giannoulias listed.

The two met on WTTW-TV's "Chicago Tonight" program. Green Party candidate LeAlan Jones and Libertarian Mike Labno were not invited to take part in the debate.

Kirk accused Giannoulias of encouraging class warfare by not supporting an extension of tax cuts for the wealthy. Giannoulias rejected that, saying he opposes the tax cuts because they would add to a huge deficit that ballooned when Kirk and other Republicans controlled Washington.

Giannoulias said Kirk has voted against legislation to make college more affordable, to help women get equal pay for equal work, to crack down on runaway corporate salaries.

"He has an indefensible record in Congress," Giannoulias said.

Kirk responded that Giannoulias has practically no record.

He noted the 34-year-old's position as treasurer is his first government job. He also said Giannoulias hasn't done that job well, noting part of the Bright Start college savings program lost about $150 million on Giannoulias' watch.

During a discussion of the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program, Giannoulias said he would have pushed for changes in the bailout legislation if he had been in Congress at the time. Kirk said he was trying to have it both ways.


"This is the sort of immaturity of my opponent," Kirk said. "In the end, a member of Congress is presented with a yes-or-no vote on an always-imperfect package. ... In the end, you have to cast a tough vote."

Giannoulias responded, "If Congressman Kirk is accusing me of flip-flopping, that would be the most remarkable irony in the history of Illinois politics."

When asked about his past claim that he knew with "moral certitude" that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, Kirk said he based that on a briefing in the White House situation room. Kirk said he was shown various pieces of evidence, such as tubes that supposedly could only be used to refine uranium, and was told they proved the existence of the weapons.

After the debate, Kirk would not provide details or explain why this seems to contradict a past explanation of the "moral certitude" comment. Previously, he had said he made that statement because Iraqi documents did not account for all of Saddam's old chemical weapons.

Pressed by the moderator, Giannoulias and Kirk did find a few kind words for each other.

Kirk said he appreciated Giannoulias calling to offer condolences when his stepfather died. Giannoulias called Kirk a hard worker and someone who cares.

Giannoulias repeatedly criticized the negative race and said he would run only positive ads for the rest of the campaign - less than a week.

WATCH the debate here:

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BY: CHRISTOPHER WILLS CHICAGO (AP) -- The candidates for President Barack Obama's former Senate seat assailed each other as immature, indecisive and dishonest Wednesday in a debate that revisited fa...
BY: CHRISTOPHER WILLS CHICAGO (AP) -- The candidates for President Barack Obama's former Senate seat assailed each other as immature, indecisive and dishonest Wednesday in a debate that revisited fa...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
maxtruthful
12:01 PM on 10/29/2010
Is Giannoulias a silver spoon crook?
11:34 AM on 10/29/2010
Kirk is an out and out liar and a phony. As a Vietnam Vet I find his lying about his military background in defensible!
Also between 2001-2008, Kirk voted 87% party line Republican. He was/is a Bush Loyalist.
He voted Against the Intelligence Authorization Act which would have prevented the
CIA from water boarding torture.
Kirk voted For wiretapping.
Kirk voted Against Extending Unemployment Benefits. (Regular folks aren't having a hard time!!)
Kirk voted Against Fair Pay for Women.
Kirk voted Against Obama's Stimulus Plan.
Kirk voted Against the helping Families Save Their Homes Act, 2009.
Kirk voted Against Curtailing Executive Bonuses for Large Corporations
Getting Taxpayer Funded TARP Funds.
Kirk also called supporters of Dan Seals, his Democratic Opponent in last
year's Congressional race,
"Goons and Crooks."
We don't need someone like him representing the state of Illinois!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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03:59 AM on 10/29/2010
harsh words, old accusations!!! oh my! so it's going by the script then. must not have been any punches thrown or faux noise would have shown interest. maybe they can get on the view.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
KevinOConnor
full-time citizen
03:19 AM on 10/29/2010
This debate was hosted by a non-profit TV station which runs on your tax dollars but refused to allow LeAlan Jones to participate. I think if he were there he could tell the two children fighting in the back seat that he was going to turn this thing around! It's a shame that a public broadcasting agency omitted credible views from the discussion. When our media fail to provide us with all our political options, it is impossible for voters to head to the polls with enough knowledge in order to make an informed decision.

When the media fail, so does democracy.

THANKS PBS. This will be remembered during your next pledge drive.
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Totto
Not "noises", One-Round, *music*!
08:42 PM on 10/28/2010
Y'know, Kirk, I wouldn't pi$$ off Giannoulias, if I were you.
12:33 PM on 10/29/2010
Suggesting what??? Go ahead, finish your thought, if you had one!
03:47 PM on 10/28/2010
Why do we have a choice between a mob connected rich-kid banker and a person who seems to embelish the truth about his own life achievements and aligned himself with the failed Bush policies?
Frankly, I blame the democrats who voted in the primaries for the rich trust fund mobster-banker rather than the other choices we had (Hoffman for example)
As for me, with Democrats like Alexi, I am fine with Republicans.....so I will vote for the third party.
03:59 PM on 10/28/2010
I am only going to correct you on one issue. You are repeating a false statement and unless you have some evidence to confirm that Alexi is mob connected, you should not be using that phrase. It is fine to write that his family bank ganted loans to individuals with mob connections. That is factual and you will not get an argument from me about that. But when you say someone is mob connected, you are implying something else.

Not trying to disuade you from your choice. I just want to keep this reasonably accurate!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamala4
04:09 PM on 10/28/2010
Thank you Mike.
07:33 PM on 10/28/2010
I think Justeden's take on Giannoulias is probably closer to the truth than yours, ChiTownMike. Sadly, I will vote for the kid whose family is banker to the Chciago Mob because he will likely do me less harm than will his opponent. And a vote for a third party is a vote for his opponent.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mahercrit
03:03 PM on 10/28/2010
not to mention that thanks to Giannoulias and his family of mobster banksters, who wouldn't loan $$$ to people who don't have nicknames like "Jaws" or "the Clown" or " shortshanks" the whole mentality of entitles arrogance and corruption that are Illinois Democrats are what went to DC in Jan 2009 and what has spawned the econ meltdown of the country that started in Jan 2007 when the likes of Pelosi and the Community organizer took control
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dan1902
United we bargain,divided we beg!
03:17 PM on 10/28/2010
Is your first name Brian?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamala4
04:10 PM on 10/28/2010
No but his last name is Kirk.
03:30 PM on 10/28/2010
There you go again!!! That mobster thing, which you know is a false allegation. Now you are doubling down on your LIES by stating: "...wouldn't loan $$$ to people who don't have nicknames like "Jaws" or "the Clown" or " shortshanks" That is more than hyperbolic, that is a LIE! Been hanging around with Mark recently?

Just to remind you...Bush was in office in 2007 and for the seven preceeding years!
02:41 PM on 10/28/2010
Allie G has reached the point of being a cartoon character. The lies, the corruption, the level of failure, the lack of competence.... This guy is a disaster. He is terrible in the debates and needs to be sent home.
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knightoftheroundtable
Old Knight without porfolio or armor
03:26 PM on 10/28/2010
As a dem I am ashamed of G being a candidate.
He is a criminal, that I believe.
03:33 PM on 10/28/2010
So, Alexi's "lies, the corruption, the level of failure, the lack of competence" are your reasons you will not vote for him? How do you justify your support of Kirk or have you not been paying attention to him, his lies, his incompetence and his failures???
02:31 PM on 10/28/2010
"We have links to all the candidates on our website" ...implying Labno and Jones aren't important enough to have a forum here...
What nerve!? The reality is both of guys are dipsh8ts, and that Jones and Labno represent REAL CHANGE.
Have we forgotten Blago?! Have we forgotten Ryan?!
DO NOT VOTE REPUBE or DEMAGOGUE, vote for REAL change in IL representation.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ItAintNoRocketScience
02:30 PM on 10/28/2010
I caught this interview when it reran this morning around 1am. I have to say, I wouldn't vote for Mark Kirk if he were the last candidate on the planet. I'm a Giannoulias supporter, 110%. However, I have to be honest and say that Mark Kirk looked polished, his answers were for the most part concise, he stayed on message and he was well-prepared. Alexi Giannoulias looked awkward, he stumbled through a good deal of his answers and he seemed defensive and ill-prepared. Giannoulias did himself no favors in this debate.
09:01 PM on 10/28/2010
Alexi is not ready for this level of office. But for, being Obama basketball buddy, he would not be here.

Shame on the Dems for giving us such a bad candidate in a race that should be a layup (sorry for the basketball pun).
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ItAintNoRocketScience
02:35 PM on 10/29/2010
Contrary to your statement, the Dems didn't "give" us Alexi Giannoulias. He is the Democratic candidate because he received the most votes in the primary. And if you want to use that thinking, then shame on the Republican'ts for giving us such an embarrassment in Mark Kirk. I'd be ashamed to say I was a Republican't right now.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mahercrit
02:08 PM on 10/28/2010
The MOBSTER BANKSTER,,,
And his family took $147 million out of their piggy Broadway Bank, when if they left half in it would not have collapsed and cost the FDIC $300 million
And his Democrat slime bags in Illinois allowed college bound families to lose $86 million
And his Democrat slime bags in Illinois to reduce Illinois to the 9th most likely government entity in the world to collapse
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamala4
02:26 PM on 10/28/2010
You ignorance and myopic perspective is typical of republicans who sent this country into the abyss with 8 years of Bush/Cheney....your opinion is worthless.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
loudneighbor
Now %10 Quieter
02:27 PM on 10/28/2010
Name-calling is not exactly the height of enlightened discourse.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
pjean
Consultant
01:47 PM on 10/28/2010
voted early and I certainly did not vote for Kirk.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamala4
01:50 PM on 10/28/2010
And you said that with pride! me too!
01:37 PM on 10/28/2010
The best IL has to offer. I wish we had Nevada's ballot that contains a line that allows you to vote for neither of these two idiots. Both of these guys lie, are crooked and appear completely incompetent to hold office.
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Kalie
Left of Center
01:20 PM on 10/28/2010
So Kirk, attempting to justify why he voted for the Iraq invasion, says the Republican Administration lied to him.....so we should vote for more Republicans? Not. Go away Kirk. You lose.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamala4
01:32 PM on 10/28/2010
He knows all too well about lies, doesn't he?
01:45 PM on 10/28/2010
Hes from Illinois, he has perfect examples, like Blago, Alexi, Mayor Daley and the President, all big liars.
12:02 PM on 10/28/2010
to be clear, this is a choice between a congressman with both military and legislative accomplishments, who has embellished some of those accomplishments, and a failed banker with no meaningful accomplishments as Treasurer, who has also lied about his role at the bank and about not knowing about the degree of implosion in the Oppenheimer funds, and who people close to the greek circle in chicago know comes from a dirt bag family... so who is worse?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamala4
12:13 PM on 10/28/2010
Kirk
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ChiBloger
And the truth shall set us ALL free
01:11 PM on 10/28/2010
Kirk. The do nothing Congressman who has been living off republican propaganda for far too long.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dan1902
United we bargain,divided we beg!
12:26 PM on 10/28/2010
I would say the man who has spent 20 years in DC and doesn't have his name as an author on any meaningful legislation or was a Bush Lapdog and lies so much that he doesn't know the truth anymore!! He is selling snake oil 30 year old Republican Hatchet Man snake oil pure and simple!! Kirknocchio is a Sham his district took 20 years to figure out what most of us already knew!! Shameless,activities like having an internet fundraiser with China just 24 hours before voting against closing loopholes for companies to ship jobs there!! He doesn't care about the PEOPLE who employ him US half as much as he cares about his embellished over inflated egomaniacal SELF!!