More

California Gay Marriage Ban: Court Hints It May Overturn Law, Legalize Same-Sex Marriage

PAUL ELIAS and LISA LEFF   12/ 7/10 06:49 AM ET   AP

Gay Marriage Ban

SAN FRANCISCO — A line of questioning at an appeals court hearing over California's gay marriage ban suggested the three judges could issue a decision that would legalize same-sex marriage in that state but leave intact bans in other western states under the court's jurisdiction.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals heard nearly three hours of arguments Monday during a televised hearing that reached a nationwide audience anxious for a final decision on whether voter-approved Proposition 8 and similar same-sex marriage bans violate the U.S. Constitution.

The judges appeared troubled over whether they could recognize marriage as a civil right for all same-sex couples or only those in states that already grant gays the rights of marriage without the title.

Theodore Olson – who argued a portion of the case on behalf of the two same-sex couples who sued to overturn Proposition 8 and persuaded a lower court to strike it down – said denying gays the right to wed constitutes discrimination that cannot be justified under any circumstances.

"What this comes down to, it seems to me, is that California has built a fence around its gay and lesbian citizens and it has built a fence around the institution of marriage, which the Supreme Court says, not based on procreation or anything else, is the most important relationship in life," Olson said.

His oratory prompted Judge Stephen Reinhardt, the panel's most liberal member, to ask if Proposition 8 were a unique case because it amended the California Constitution to outlaw same-sex marriages five months after the state Supreme Court had legalized them.

"Your closing speech would require a holding that any state that did not permit gay marriage would be in violation of the Constitution," the judge said. "There is a possibility, I think in this case, that Proposition 8's withdrawal of the right of marriage from gays and lesbians is unconstitutional under the circumstances that they enjoyed that right, that they are given every aspect of marriage and the only thing taken away is the honorific of marriage."

Attorney Charles Cooper, who represents sponsors of the 2008 measure, argued that same-sex couples can be treated differently when it comes to marriage without running afoul of the Constitution because "sexual relationships between men and women naturally produce children."

"Society has no particular interest in a platonic relationship between a man and a woman no matter how close it might be, or emotional relationships between other people as well, but when the relationship becomes a sexual one, society has a considerable interest in that," Cooper said. "Its vital interests are actually threatened by the possibility of an unintentional and unwanted pregnancy."

Mondays' hearing also focused on whether Proposition 8's supporters have legal standing to challenge a lower court ruling that the ban was unconstitutional. The issue surfaced after outgoing California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Attorney General Jerry Brown both refused to challenge the ruling that overturned the ban.

The panel appeared dubious about whether the ban's supporters were qualified to appeal but also seemed worried about allowing the governor and attorney general to effectively kill Proposition 8 by refusing to defend it.

Opponents of Proposition 8 contend it violates the due process and equal protection rights of gays and lesbians under the U.S. Constitution by denying them the right to marry the person of their choice and by singling them out for disparate treatment without a legitimate rationale.

C-SPAN's coverage of Monday's hearing gave the public outside the 9th Circuit headquarters in San Francisco its first – and possibly last – direct look at the debate raging in the landmark challenge that could impact gay marriage bans in other states.

Matt Walker, 60, of Los Angeles watched the hearing with about 20 other people at the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Center in West Hollywood and said the lives of many of his friends would be affected by the final decision. He found the hearing fascinating.

"Nobody from either side was getting a pass," he said.

___

Associated Press writers Marcus Wohlsen in San Francisco and Christina Hoag in Los Angeles contributed to this report.

FOLLOW HUFFPOST LOS ANGELES

SAN FRANCISCO — A line of questioning at an appeals court hearing over California's gay marriage ban suggested the three judges could issue a decision that would legalize same-sex marriage in th...
SAN FRANCISCO — A line of questioning at an appeals court hearing over California's gay marriage ban suggested the three judges could issue a decision that would legalize same-sex marriage in th...
Filed by Nick Graham  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 560
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Highlights
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (7 total)
  1 of 1  
COMMUNITY PUNDITS
photo
LiberalBuzz 03:48 PM on 12/07/2010
It's going to happen. Gay people are going to be allowed to marry sooner or later.

Either way, it's gonna happen. So fighting it is a waste of money and time.

Unless rightwingers too 100 percent  control of the country for a thousand year rule, it's still gonna happen. So which side of history do you want to be on?

The side that fought against gay marriage based upon a whole bunch  Read More...
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
gaydood
Denied HC? goto PCIP.gov
07:35 PM on 01/05/2011
I like gay people
07:20 PM on 01/05/2011
All this tomfoolery is just going to lead to Prop 8 being upheld by the Supreme Court. I'm glad.
03:09 AM on 01/07/2011
Can you read Justice Kennedy's mind or something?
01:02 PM on 01/07/2011
I doubt Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, and Ginsburg all find Prop 8 unconstitutional. Breyer and Ginsburg, but I'm not sure.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JakeHanson
Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America!
01:38 PM on 01/08/2011
Yes, because equal rights=tomfoolery.

Would you be singing this same tune if YOUR rights were put to a vote?
photo
Nelle
bah-weep-grahna-weep-ninny-bon
03:07 PM on 01/05/2011
This current legal system that grants rights to one group of American citizens and denies rights for others simply cannot stand. There is no logical argument that justifies marriage rights for heterosexuals only.

I respect the rights of the religious community, but I have yet to see any religious leader present ONE clear argument against gay marriage recognition by the state.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JakeHanson
Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America!
01:38 PM on 01/08/2011
Very well put.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SaburoHakaida
I am a Decepticon
07:57 PM on 12/24/2010
By the protester's arguments, the Constitution is an act of blasphemy because it does not follow the law of the bible.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DON McDONALD
Politics is NOT a spectator sport, get involved
02:09 PM on 12/24/2010
Frankly, I have no more interest or concern over some fundamentalist Christians preaching that the law might make marriage equality "legal" but it won't be "moral", than I have over the preaching of a fundamentalist Mohammedan that sending my daughters to college might be "legal, but not "moral"...

As long as the legal protection and guarantee marriage equality is secured, those who don't like it are welcome to preach till they turn blue in the face.

Keeping in mind of course that if they take any illegal actions based on that preaching that they will face a judge just like any other criminal...
11:47 AM on 12/24/2010
The Bible is clear that homosexuality in all its forms is sinful and those
involved in it will not inherit the kingdom of God (Leviticus 18:22; Leviticus 20:13;
Romans 1:24:28; I Corinthians 6:9-11; I Timothy 1:9-10).
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rob Halpin
07:54 PM on 01/04/2011
And your bible is a magic fable book written by stu*id men who wanted to control other stu*id men.

You're free to believe such nonsense. But we don't legislate based on nonsense.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ganapati
Don't you mess with my Wheel
08:49 PM on 01/04/2011
That's totally cool
In Alice in Wonderland, when you eat the pill that says EAT ME, you get bigger
You are free to believe in whatever fantasy you chose. Our constitution guarantees that you cannot impose it on me.
End of discussion, crawl back into your hole
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wee weed up
02:36 PM on 12/23/2010
“It will be legal not moral. God is not that bright giving two people that same sex organs and expecting them to have sex. Good thing humans invented the dil doo.”
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wee weed up
08:15 PM on 12/15/2010
I guess the population wants to sanction same sex marriage and the aberrant sexual behaviour that goes with it. It will always be a counterfeit form of marriage. Laws will make it legal not moral.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
08:49 PM on 12/15/2010
Says you, homohater. It is no less moral than heterosexual marriage. Maybe one day you will figure this out and can then join the rest of us in the 21st Century.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
08:50 PM on 12/15/2010
Repeating it will not make it true.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Big Game Hunter
03:02 PM on 12/14/2010
I guess if the only point of marriage is procreation, couples should be automatically divorced by the state upon the woman reaching menopause.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wee weed up
08:14 PM on 12/15/2010
I guess it you want to sanction same sex marriage and the aberrant sexual behaviour that goes with it. It will always be a counterfeit form of marriage. Law will make it legal not moral.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
08:50 PM on 12/15/2010
Repetition will work only in your own small mind.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JakeHanson
Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America!
01:44 PM on 01/08/2011
Only in your and your dying breed's eyes, lost soul.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wee weed up
04:34 PM on 12/09/2010
Homosexual marriage is a counterfeit form of marriage.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
12:49 PM on 12/10/2010
No it's not, homohater. Now go along to Free Republic where your hatred will be approved of.
photo
the crustybastard
I could be worse, and have been.
12:56 PM on 12/10/2010
Did Mommy not hug you enough?
03:22 PM on 12/09/2010
Opponents of marriage equality had their day in Court. They were given free reign to offer expert witnesses to prove their contentions. That were asked to provide scientific, empirical data supporting their beliefs, that marriage equality harms heterosexual marriage, that same-sex parenting is inherently harmful to adopted children, that marriage equality will cause the national birthrate to plummet.

They were unable to offer objective data or testimony to support their claims. But their failure to make their case went even farther. One of the chief expert witnesses for the defense testified that the well-being of children raised by same sex couples would increase if their parents were allowed to marry. Wow!

To those who continue to cling to the notion that Proposition 8 is necessary: your claims have been examined, they were considered by a conservative Judge, and they were found wanting, unsubstantiated, and without merit. Repeating them over and over, whether here or elsewhere, simply doesn't make them true.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Scott Zwartz
12:35 AM on 12/09/2010
Private Parties may not exercise governmental power. I cannot start selling driver licenses to illegal aliens because I believe that would be the right thing for the State to do. If my state does issue licenses to illegals, I cannot go around suspending those licenses. Private citizens may not exercise governmental power.

If the supporters of Prop 8, thought that the public officials had abused their discretion in not defending Prop 8, they had a clear remedy -- seek a writ of mandamus to compel the Gov and AG to defend Prop 8. They may not step into the shoes of defending the case andy more than they can steps into the shoes of the DA and prosecute someone the DA believes should not be prosecuted.

Whether the Court may now remand the case and provide the Supporters of Prop 8 the time to seek a Writ is another question. But at this stage, no private citizen may assume the role of Governor or Atty General.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mitzvah
Optimistic Realist
03:28 PM on 12/08/2010
For Goodness Sakes - OVERTURN IT!!! DO THE RIGHT THING!!! This whole thing has turned into a ridiculous sideshow that has adversely affected the lives of thousands of loving, caring people who want nothing more than to be treated fairly.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
05:52 PM on 12/08/2010
But-b-but that means the haters would have to legally treat us as equals. They know that when the legal prohibition against marriage equality falls, there will be even less grounds for their bigotry to be perpetuated. People will say "It's legal. So what?". They depend upon it remaining prohibited in law as one of the pillars of maintaining heterosexist priviledge and bigotry.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wee weed up
08:19 PM on 12/15/2010
It will be legal not moral. God is not that bright giving two people that same sex organs and expecting them to have sex. Good thing humans invented the dil doo.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
yoyo1900
05:24 PM on 01/05/2011
It's a mitzvah to pursue justice. Torah says '' and justice, justice you shall pursue.''
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
cinemaven
Mom, wife, social & political activist, writer...
01:37 PM on 12/08/2010
Stop hinting and just do it already.. from sea to shining sea

As a blissfully married hetero, I promise that my marriage is in no way compromised if our gay friends are also married. I know it for a fact because I'm Canadian and most of my gay friends are married now. Yeah, there was that few years where it was a pain having to buy all those wedding gifts but now that it's been going on for a while, the weddings have slowed down to a normal level.

To deny others the rights that I enjoy to appease religious zealots just isn't right.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bill J4321
08:11 PM on 12/08/2010
Regarding those wedding gifts...

...Payback's a bi*ch, no? ; )
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
cinemaven
Mom, wife, social & political activist, writer...
12:16 AM on 12/09/2010
I totally love it when my male friends marry each other since the food/music/decor is always beyond awesome and they put so much thought into where they register so gifting is fun and easy. Not so much fun when our female friends marry each other... they always want donations to the pound as gifts or donations of material to whatever art collective they're members of *lol*

Seriously though, it brought me so much pleasure when our friends were able to legally marry once Canada finally did the right thing. We'd been to commitment ceremonies and as happy as those occasions were, there was always that undertone of totally unfairness that they couldn't marry in the same way I could.
photo
BlackWidowPilot
"Fu! Rin! Ka! Zan!"
01:28 PM on 12/08/2010
Somewhere in the hills of Afghanistan there is an American citizen born and raised. They are a GI or a US Marine. They are crouching in a rock sangar or lying in a ditch clutching an M-16 rifle. Their last meal was an MRE eaten while lying down in the dirt, one hand on their rifle. They stay low because there's a sniper nearby.

They just saw a comrade fall from that sniper's bullet. They watched another who they called friend buy the farm last week along with others courtesy of a taliban IED. They don't dare move just yet...

They signed up because they loved their country, and answered her call to duty after 9/11.

They keep their personal feelings buried deep not just because its what a soldier or Marine must do to survive in combat, but because they have an additional piece of themselves they must protect from the very people around them that they have come to feel closer to than their own family, the very people they would give their lives for, the very people alongside whom they share daily hardship and risk of grievous injury or death.

They are our GIs. They are our US Marines. They are a Navy Corpsmen. They are Air Force combat pilot. They are risking their lives in the service of our country so we civilians do not have to carry that burden. They all volunteered for this duty.

They are gay.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
yoyo1900
05:28 PM on 01/05/2011
The most well said so far. I wish that I could write as well as many of you in these articles. Thank You .