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Drawing The Line Between Religious Inspiration And Insanity

First Posted: 12/13/2010 8:08 pm Updated: 05/26/2011 5:05 pm

Inspired Or Insane

By Peggy Fletcher Stack
Salt Lake Tribune

(RNS) A teenager says God and Jesus appeared to him in a grove and told him to start a new Christian church. Another person claims the Almighty talks to him through the radio.

A French girl gets messages from heaven to lead an army against the British, while a Utah woman thinks she is meant to have Jesus' baby and 12 husbands.

Some of these figures were considered prophets and saints, while others were judged insane. The question is: How do you tell which is which?

Brian David Mitchell, convicted Friday (Dec. 10) of kidnapping and raping Elizabeth Smart, insisted that God gave him license to do so, though his attorneys argued he was mentally ill.

The main difference between a prophet and a psychopath, says Ralph Hood, who teaches psychology of religion at the University of Tennessee in Chattanooga, is "whether or not (they) can get followers."

Historic figures who started new religious movements -- including Martin Luther (the Reformation), Joseph Smith (Mormonism), Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science), Ellen White (Seventh-day Adventism), Jim Jones (People's Temple) and David Koresh (Branch Davidians) -- were viewed by outsiders as delusional.

But followers, ranging from the millions to the hundreds, found each of them to be credible guides to divinity.

"There is ample research to suggest that, for the most part, religious people are no more inclined to mental illness than nonreligious people," says Wendy Ulrich, a Mormon and founder of Sixteen Stones Center for Growth, a small group of mental-health professionals, in Alpine, Utah.

The pathology arises, Ulrich says, when a person's search for meaning "goes into extreme overdrive" and people "lose touch with vital aspects of reality."

From the start, psychologists must weigh a person's religious and cultural expectations. The more important faith is, the more prominent a role religious language will play in a person's mental process.

Maybe the person is speaking in tongues, communing with the dead, sensing the presence of a guardian angel or getting messages from milk cartons.

So the first question becomes: Does the experience fit with some religious tradition that is dominant in a culture? Does it make sense to a particular faith community, or is it out of the norm? Is it consistent with the faith's scripture, practices and beliefs or does it challenge
them?

As a clinical psychologist, Brent Slife might bring in a pastor or priest to help answer that question.

"I would want to know how contextually appropriate their behavior or the things they are espousing are," says Slife, a Protestant who teaches at Brigham Young University. "Are they able to adapt to different contexts?"

Unbalanced people may repeatedly quote scriptures or obsessively perform rituals or adopt a grander, more spiritual identity such as King David, Moses, Muhammad or Jesus.

"If the pope says he's the Vicar of Christ, that's OK because it fits with a centuries-old tradition," Hood says. "If I think I am, I'm in trouble."

There are at least two common ways in which mental patients describe their delusional experiences with God, Ulrich says. Schizophrenics hear voices or see things that are not there. Those suffering from paranoia, meanwhile, see conspiracy in everyday events or think God is speaking specially to them.

"They over-interpret common experiences to mean either someone is out to get them or God is out to help them," Ulrich says. "Ideas of grandiosity and thinking of themselves as special or chosen in some way are not uncommon."

But it never is easy to assess the authenticity of another person's spiritual experience.

Ulrich has known people whose behavior could be inspiring or could signal a muddled mind. Many of them take part in church services without fellow believers even being aware.

She has known some religious folks who are unusually clairvoyant, with a penchant for and openness to revelatory experiences. They largely are calm, highly functioning, rational people, who are socially engaged but don't call attention to themselves.

"They pretty much play by the rules of society and don't think of themselves as special," she says. "They know their 'gifts' are not always believed in or valued, so they have a sense of humor about them."

She's also seen people who are "very high-functioning in some areas of life and can be quite charismatic, intelligent and charming," but they begin to "over-interpret impressions or events as messages from God in ways that make other people nervous, even people within their own
value system or religious system."

Such people think the "rules" of the community don't apply to them and may start to feel that others are out to get them, she says, and they don't understand why.

If you ask a religious person how God communicates, she might say through impressions or a kind of whispering. But if you ask a mentally ill person that question, he might say, "I shook hands with him yesterday."

Studies show that reasoning with schizophrenic patients about God never works, Measom says. They cannot be convinced of any other interpretation. It's a matter, he says, of core beliefs and brain chemistry.

For a believer such as the Rev. Gregory Johnson, the line between genuine religious experience and madness sometimes is blurred.

Johnson, who directs Standing Together, a Utah group of evangelical pastors, is not a charismatic Christian, so he doesn't speak in tongues or engage in the more ecstatic practices. But he does believe God heals, speaks and leads.

"I see a range of healthiness and levels of extremity within the confines (of Christianity)," he said. "I see people who are zealous but not insane."

One of the tests, Johnson says, might be the "fruits" or outcomes of the divine communication. Does the experience lead a person into more altruistic actions, greater caring for others and deeper relations, or does it simply draw the recipient further into narcissism?

As a pastor, Johnson says, he would worry about actions that are "destructive to other people or to themselves."

Mormons are urged to seek and receive God's guidance for themselves and their families. But only the church's "prophet, seer and revelator" can receive messages for the whole faith and the world. Such institutional controls may inhibit individual experiences, but they do prevent mentally ill members from distracting or confusing the faithful.

Even as a young Mormon teen, Elizabeth Smart says she knew the difference between a genuine religious leader and Mitchell.

"God would never tell someone to kidnap a young girl from her family's home in the middle of the night from her bed that she shared with her sister ... and sexually abuse her and give her no free agency to choose what she did," Smart testified. "I know (Mitchell) was not called of God because God would never do something like that."

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By Peggy Fletcher Stack Salt Lake Tribune (RNS) A teenager says God and Jesus appeared to him in a grove and told him to start a new Christian church. Another person claims the Almighty talks to him ...
By Peggy Fletcher Stack Salt Lake Tribune (RNS) A teenager says God and Jesus appeared to him in a grove and told him to start a new Christian church. Another person claims the Almighty talks to him ...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bob Kellerman
Let's have more sanity toward each other
07:05 PM on 12/19/2010
Some would say that INSANITY was

Funding anti-Gay causes and messing in the private lives of strangers in order to try to keep the lid on your own flocks.
http://nomexposed.org/

When MILLIONS of children go hungry and could benefit from the many tens of millions of dollars and the huge effort expended to stop what is fair and inevitable.

Some would say that insanity was continuing to call a hateful old bxstard like this a "prophet" and not move into the modern era
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZ5YYfuSZQ
(anyone PROUD to belong to a church which could allow this in 2010, not 1950?)

Some would say that Jesus weeps to see hatred, control, and greed used in His name.
10:11 AM on 12/17/2010
"There are at least two common ways in which mental patients describe their delusional experiences with God, Ulrich says.

Schizophrenics hear voices or see things that are not there."

And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
-Exodus 3:2

How many thousands of years of misery could have been avoided if only we had this "Line Between Religious Inspiration And Insanity"?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
06:11 PM on 12/22/2010
Michael:

Do you think it's possible for a sane person to experience a divine manifestation?

What separates the crazies from those genuinely touched by God (IMO) is observing secondhand how their alleged experiences affect them.
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Eilis27
The soft minded wo/man always fears change. MLK
07:03 PM on 12/16/2010
There are several high profiled offshoot sects from the mormon religion that have lead to criminal behaviors- generally it is usually tied to marrying child brides, such as Warren Jeffs and the Kingston Clan. Some are not such as Ervil LeBaron, Church of the Lamb of god, who and his was convicted of ordering the murders of several people. One of Ervil's Blood Atonement hits was on a rival Rulon Allred who was the head of another polygamy group, Dr. Allred survived the attempted murder but some of LeBaron's other blood atonement hits were not. The one thing all of these fundamentalist groups do have in common is the practice of polygamy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
06:13 PM on 12/22/2010
Interesting...

Where to draw the line between insanity and demonic influence?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
05:57 PM on 12/16/2010
m.m. o.hare suggested a warning label on the Bible saying, "Caution! May be hazardous to you mental health." That and similar signs posted at church entrances should be considered.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
06:15 PM on 12/22/2010
"m.m. o.hare suggested a warning label on the Bible saying, "Caution! May be hazardous to you mental health." That and similar signs posted at church entrances should be considered­."

Pretty soon, there would be signs like that everywhere. The whole world would drown in mental health hazard signs.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
09:45 AM on 12/23/2010
Good point! LOL
05:12 PM on 12/16/2010
RE: Drawing The Line Between Religious Inspiration And Insanity


I suggest having an eraser handy as this may take a while....
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TYRANNASAURUS
UGH!....people don't taste good.
05:02 PM on 12/16/2010
Drawing The Line Between Religious Inspiration And Insanity....

There is no line........................they both absolutely believe in fantasies as if they're reality and it's all in their mind.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RedDogBear
01:14 PM on 12/16/2010
I think the whole notion of "not guilty by reason of insanity" needs to be reconsidered. The truth is that psychology is a very immature science. We don't have a well defined theory of what consciousness is yet so we can't really make valid decisions about when someone is or isn't responsible for their actions due to insanity. Until we can we need to just stick to whether or not they committed the crime.

The only exceptions I would make would be in clear cut cases where we know that a physical problem such as a brain tumor exists -- in those rare cases where there is some unambiguous test that shows the defendent had the illness and where there is solid science that shows that the illness can result in behavior that the same person would never commit otherwise. Certain kinds of brain tumors qualify but very little else.
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soisay
Angry? Scared? Thank a Republican.
11:24 PM on 12/16/2010
The X-Ray/CT-Scan test for mental disorders? Have you met clinically delusional, schizophrenic or paranoid people? The existence of idiopathic mental illness is not that hard to make or accept. You cannot fake these without being a sociopath (another maladaption) and even then, to what end? Life in a state mental hospital instead of a prison?

Now, as for criminal defenses, appropriate treatments, housing in lieu of homelessness; I will not venture to even suggest solutions, but many respond to current pharmaceuticals. The mentally unstable often will not be sufficiently disciplined to follow the necessary indefinite daily regimens.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RedDogBear
11:41 AM on 12/17/2010
"Have you met clinically delusional­, schizophre­nic or paranoid people?"

Yes I have. I worked in a psych hospital for several years. My point is about the whole notion of when people are responsible for their actions. For example as you probably know there is research now that shows you can determine the chemical changes going on in a brain before the conscious decision to do an act (e.g. pick up a glass) are actually made. (Steven Pinkus describes this research in the section on free will in The Language Instinct)

So since we are just beginning to understand exactly what consciousness is from a scientific standpoint, I think its way too soon to have a general notion of "not responsible for reasons of mental defect". We have no solid science yet for understanding what constitutes a "free" choice vs. one coerced by environment, genetics, etc.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
DJ Jaffe
Founder, Mental Illness Policy Org.
09:07 AM on 12/20/2010
I wrote on the issue of NGRI in Wall Street Journal article called "The Trouble with the Insanity Defense" http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704896104575139801575696436.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
thawalkingman
08:13 AM on 12/16/2010
When you ask the question: What is the difference between someone who is spiritual and someone who is delusional you make a fundamental error. There is no difference.

There are only differences in what people use their fantasies to justify doing. One man kidnaps and rapes another feeds people in a food kitchen. The impulse to both actions comes from the same sender and arrives at the same inbox. Just as one man uses his arm to strike another while one man uses his arm to help those in need. So to does one man use his ration of madness to hurt while another uses it to help.

Religion is a make-believe blanket that we cast over reality. The instinct for religion is intrinsic to the human animal, but the religions we create are not intrinsic to the world we live in. The many gods humanity has created over time have all lived within the human mind alone. They are not written in nature. The planets do not circle the sun, guided by scripture. Atoms do not dance any differently to the utterance of any of the syllables we have decided to call god.

Religion has it's place in our world. It can bring us together. It can give us the hope that keeps our minds open to opportunity. It can salve the suffering of the over active mind. But, it is always madness. It is always the denial of what is for what we wish something to be.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Muhtadi
12:46 AM on 12/16/2010
“Historic figures who started new religious movements – [insert list]-- were viewed by outsiders as delusional” –Salt Lake Tribune.


We all know there is one historic figure in particular who started a religious movement who is conveniently, as well as understandably, not included on that list. As the psychologist quoted in the article, states, the [Difference between a pro.fit and a psychopath is] “whether or not (they) can get followers”.

Regardless of whatever people want to believe, that definition is a fact by in fact the very definition of the fact. If I go into a room with 20 people - proclaim that God personally spoke to me and kill 5 of the 18 people who don’t believe me, I will be deemed a psychopath. However, if I was a total and complete psychopath and killed all 18 of the people who didn’t believe me, then, the 2 survivors who do believe whatever I say without question would make up a 100% consensus thus making me a prof-it. Tada!

What would happen when I walked into the next room of 20 people who just heard the news of what happened to the last room of 20 people I just walked into? Really… Honestly.. What would you do?? Now you beg for your life by agreeing with whatever I say – TADA! I just became a Saint. After all, I just spared the life of 20 people - did I not?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
06:19 PM on 12/22/2010
That's an extremely cynical way of putting it, but I agree with you here. And I am a God-fearing man.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
clduckett
10:43 PM on 12/15/2010
IMHO, All of it is a type of insanity (or as Bill Maher avers: a neurological disorder). "God" is simply a word. Remove the word--and all the other abstract terms invoked to make up it's definitions--and "God" is nowhere to be found. In the closing of our books and the silencing of our mouths, "God" suddenly vanishes from the 'real world' while the real world stays exactly the same. Religion relies on words to be disseminated and experienced, reality does not.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
10:33 AM on 12/23/2010
Words only descrbe what religion is and what the religious impulse is. Purging the language of all religious language is pretty Orwellian, if you ask me. You can't control people like that, anyway.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Pamela Lake
Pushing onward, forward and ahead.
10:45 PM on 12/30/2010
There have been those who have tried erasing the religious impulse and all have failed. It appears to be hardwired into us...so you can attempt once again removing all reference to God, but don't be surprised when it doesn't work.
08:47 PM on 12/15/2010
Draw a timeline,
post the date and the town on every street corner, with the year...
get to know your constituents
because
its out there
and we CAN handle before it occurs it if we DON'T turn the other cheek.

I had always intended to be a psychologist but was steered away from it in later years because it is one of the surest ways of NOT working through something..to label it as a PROBLEM.
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
05:43 PM on 12/15/2010
Those we call saints did not kidnap a child and force her into sexual slavery. When I feel like maybe God is poking me to a given action, the first question I ask is, "Am I being asked to act, or am I being asked to force others?" If it is just me, then I choose. If I feel like I should coerce others, I assume the impulse is from the devil.
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01:01 AM on 12/16/2010
Nonsense!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
06:22 PM on 12/22/2010
"Those we call saints did not kidnap a child and force her into sexual slavery. When I feel like maybe God is poking me to a given action, the first question I ask is, "Am I being asked to act, or am I being asked to force others?" If it is just me, then I choose. If I feel like I should coerce others, I assume the impulse is from the devil."

Very good post, been2there! Very good insight.
04:44 PM on 12/15/2010
"God would never tell someone to kidnap a young girl from her family's home in the middle of the night from her bed that she shared with her sister ... and sexually abuse her and give her no free agency to choose what she did," Smart testified

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves­."

DT 21: 11-12 "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

People are dilusional
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AZLibDem
If you're speeding, you're an "illegal"
06:29 PM on 12/15/2010
Numbers 31:17-18:
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PMJ79
Gloria in excelsis Deo
06:26 PM on 12/22/2010
Are you not a person?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
aqueryan
Neo-gnostic, radical centrist
11:55 AM on 12/15/2010
This is such a maddeningly sensitive issue to speak about at any length in LITERAL terms. Because the religiouSpiritual realm/dimension/world/etc. requires one possess (or be possessed of ) a FIGURATIVE perspective/mindset to navigate sanely (as opposed to our mundane, default, sense-oriented, literal one).
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
aqueryan
Neo-gnostic, radical centrist
12:42 AM on 12/15/2010
"I've been mad for f---king years, absolutely years, been over the edge for yonks, been working me buns off for bands..."

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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ghostrider57
Unable to find reality.sys Universe halted
08:39 AM on 12/15/2010
F & F for the Pink Floyd reference.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JayMonaco
09:49 AM on 12/15/2010
F/f--wasn't expecting that at all, and now I know what I'm going to listen to today.