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Prop 8 Case Sent To California Supreme Court

LISA LEFF   01/ 4/11 08:08 PM ET   AP

BERKELEY, Calif. — A federal appeals court said Tuesday it cannot decide if California's gay marriage ban is constitutional until the state's highest court weighs in on whether Proposition 8's sponsors have the authority to defend the measure.

A three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals issued an order asking the California Supreme Court to decide if ballot proposition backers can step in to defend voter-approved initiatives in court when state officials refuse to do so.

The high court does not have to respond to the 9th Circuit panel's order, but legal experts expect it will. The panel suggested that without the state court's input, it would have to dismiss the case.

"This court is obligated to ensure that it has jurisdiction over this appeal before proceeding to the important constitutional questions it presents, and we must dismiss the appeal if we lack jurisdiction," the judges wrote.

The panel indicated during oral arguments last month that it might seek the state court's guidance because the question of who is eligible to fight for Proposition 8 remains unsettled under both federal and California law.

After a San Francisco trial judge struck down the ban in August as a violation of gay Californians' civil rights, former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and then-Attorney General Jerry Brown both took the unusual step of refusing to appeal the decision.

"We are now convinced that proponents' claim to standing depends on proponents' particularized interests created by state law or their authority under state law to defend the constitutionality of the initiative," the panel said. "We therefore request clarification in order to determine whether we have jurisdiction to decide this case."

The panel also rejected attempts by officials from conservative Imperial County to intervene as alternate defendants.

If the state Supreme Court determines that the coalition of religious and conservative groups that sponsored Proposition 8 lack the prerogative to defend the measure, it is unclear whether the ban would be unenforceable or remain in effect.

Lawyers for the two gay couples who successfully sued to overturn the ban in the lower court have argued that the trial judge's decision overturning Proposition 8 would be binding statewide. That would allow same-sex marriages to resume in California, but would remove the case from its long-assumed course to the U.S. Supreme Court, plaintiffs lawyer Theordore Olson said Tuesday.

Gay marriage opponents argue that if they are ineligible to appeal, the lower court decision would have to be vacated since they were allowed to defend Proposition 8 at trial. If the 9th Circuit leaves the lower court decision in place, they could appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court on the standing issue.

"Politicians should not be able to nullify a democratic act of the people by refusing their duty to defend it," Jim Campbell, a lawyer for the ban's backers, said in a statement. "The people of California have the right to be defended, and thus the official proponents of Proposition 8 must have standing to defend that law."

Also Tuesday, Judge Stephen Reinhardt, who is handling the appeal along with Judges Michael Hawkins and N. Randy Smith, published a memo outlining his reasons for refusing to recuse himself from the Proposition 8 case.

Lawyers for the measure's sponsors asked Reinhardt to step aside because his wife has been an outspoken supporter of same-sex marriage in her role as executive director of the Southern California chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Reinhardt said he would have removed himself from the case if the ACLU of Southern California had been an active participant since it reached the 9th Circuit. But he said he did not consider the group's participation in a friend-of-the-court brief submitted to the trial court sufficient evidence of a conflict of interest.

California voters passed Proposition 8 in November 2008. The measure, which amended the California Constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, overrode a California Supreme Court ruling from earlier that year that declared the state's one man-one woman marriage laws unconstitutional.

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BERKELEY, Calif. — A federal appeals court said Tuesday it cannot decide if California's gay marriage ban is constitutional until the state's highest court weighs in on whether Proposition 8's s...
BERKELEY, Calif. — A federal appeals court said Tuesday it cannot decide if California's gay marriage ban is constitutional until the state's highest court weighs in on whether Proposition 8's s...
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conservicide
I don't play nice.
06:04 AM on 02/28/2011
And so I dance around in my magic underwear and sprinkle pixie dust on my shiny golden Jesus plates. Lalalalah!!
06:23 PM on 01/28/2011
Reading the signs in the captions bothers me because they feel it's ok to mock a religion but the reverse can't be true. To be civil both sides have to show civility
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eve mahar
09:13 PM on 02/03/2011
there wouldn't be any reason to mock a religion if they weren't actively persecuting and discriminating against our rights. When they stay out of MY life and my family and my rights, I will leave them alone.
09:48 PM on 02/03/2011
I'm not religious but I understand they *really* believe in their faith. I think gays are just as bigoted as the people they oppose. a bigot is a person who is intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, the gays are no different,
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PWM
Eisenhower Rep. The 1% started class warfare.
05:29 PM on 01/19/2011
Marriage is a right:
*Loving v. Virginia (1967) SCOTUS ruled: "The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men..."

*Universal Declaratio­n of Human Rights (ratified by the USA): Article 16 "Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationalit­y or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolutio­n."
06:23 PM on 01/28/2011
but were they including homosexuality? What I mean by that is lets say in the 90s/80s when gay rights didn't exist and was not even a debatable issue, if you time traveled and asked me what marriage is between a man and woman i would give a perplexed look because that is to be understood without any questions. It's hard to explain in type, simply If I read that ruling "Men and Women{}..w/o limitation due to race,nationality,religion" I wouldn't have even contemplated that it meant men/men and women/women marriages were included, along the same lines that i wouldn't have assumed they also meant sister/brother,cousins etc
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conservicide
I don't play nice.
06:09 AM on 02/28/2011
First of all, who cares what "they" meant. Discrimination is wrong. Quit trying to justify it.
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FormerReaganite
Government Regulations Save Lives
12:52 AM on 01/09/2011
If we allow the average doofus voter to decide others' constitutional rights, we would still have Jim Crow Laws, and they would be as strong as ever.
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FormerReaganite
Government Regulations Save Lives
12:45 AM on 01/09/2011
I think we need a referendum on outlawing DIVORCE (a *hetero* pandemic)
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FormerReaganite
Government Regulations Save Lives
12:41 AM on 01/09/2011
GOD is gay.
04:08 PM on 01/08/2011
I hope the CSC takes a look at the Proponent's motion to intervene in Strauss - the case that they are relying on here. In that motion, the Proponents basically make an argument that nullifies their claim in this case. Because, in Strauss, they were defending the fundamental right of the people to propose an amendment via the initiative process, they had a right to intervene as real parties in that case - which was true. They make this argument, however, by distinguishing themselves by this fact from those who simply have an ideological interest. In this case, the right of the people to propose an amendment via initiative is not implicated and the Proponents are no different from other ideological supporters of Prop 8. And they, themselves, stated in that motion that, "'a ruling about the constitutionality of denying marriage licenses to same-sex couples' would not directly affect the personal rights of... ideological supporters."

I bet the Proponents are hoping the CSC doesn't look back at their own statements.
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ancatdubh
02:06 AM on 01/08/2011
I have an idea, Jerry Brown defend it. Since he is clearly opposed, his defense would be weak anyway and he'll lose. AND, you don't have a nutty religious outfit claiming to represent the voters. Problem solved.
01:04 AM on 01/08/2011
Ever hear of "the tyranny of the majority"? That's what this case is about. The framers of the United States Constitution never intended to institute direct democracy for reasons that are apparent.

James Madison, among others, feared what would happen if direct democracy -- allowing the people rather than legislators to vote on issues -- were ever instituted. That's why we are a republic.

Those who proclaim that "the will of the majority" must prevail are degrading our heritage. The Founders simply did not trust the people to decide issues, and their lack of faith in the people is well justified. Either we have a republican form of government or not.
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ancatdubh
02:08 AM on 01/08/2011
Exactly! We need ballot initiative reform here in California, it has far exceeded its usefulness on specific issues that might be appropriate for such a process. When you get into taking away rights of minorities, you're headed in a dangerous direction.
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WheelsOnFire
Fiercely Independent
12:41 PM on 01/08/2011
Great comment!

Fanned and faved!
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Douglas Campbell
07:01 PM on 01/07/2011
Nullify the 2008 vote and retake the vote now.
No time for ad campaigns, just retake the vote.
09:35 PM on 01/07/2011
California voters have already voted on the definition of marriage...not once but TWICE. Both times the definition of "Between a man and a woman" passed.
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Douglas Campbell
09:51 PM on 01/07/2011
so? why would you be opposed to this?
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WheelsOnFire
Fiercely Independent
12:18 AM on 01/08/2011
It has been determined in federal court that the vote was illegal -- it violated California's state constitution.

Here's an excerpt from the decision that voided Prop 8.

"Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional."

The people of a state cannot override its constitution. Period.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
03:54 PM on 01/07/2011
So the lesson here is pure Clintonian; if it feels legal, do it, regardless of the law!

Is that right??

And if so, are we a nation of laws, or a nation run by the powerful few, whatever they want, regardless of the law?

And if so, then why did we fight the revolution?
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Flip75
What's wrong with my micro-bio?
05:23 PM on 01/07/2011
What in the world are you talking about?
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Douglas Campbell
06:55 PM on 01/07/2011
If it feels legal do it?

Please provide one example in this case where a law was broken.
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talkstocoyotes
08:41 AM on 01/06/2011
" 'Politicians should not be able to nullify a democratic act of the people by refusing their duty to defend it,' Jim Campbell, a lawyer for the ban's backers, said in a statement."

In Mr. Campbell's alternate universe, it would be acceptable for a state to vote take a vote on whether to reinstate Jim Crow laws, employment laws "protecting" women from getting certain jobs and/or restrictive covenants in residential neighborhoods forbidding residents to sell their home to Jews, calling it a "democratic act of the people.".

And if anyone is going to parrot the "homosexuality is a choice" line: by that reasoning we should do away with all tax exemptions for religious organizations. As a taxpayer, I don't want my money supporting someone else's lifestyle choice.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
02:36 PM on 01/06/2011
Amen to THAT! Religion IS a lifestyle choice--if it were not, you would not see people converting to other religions. Yet they want everyone to believe that being GLBT is a choice. Not in my universe--I have been transgendered and gay since very very young. Maybe all these people should ask themselves "When did I decide to be heterosexual". The sad part is they will never do this or if they do, they will still think that their sexuality is not a choice but being GLBT IS.
03:19 PM on 01/06/2011
I'd just like to add to this that we also have a plethora of scientific data about various animals that practice homosexuality and bi-sexuality.

"From the middle of October until next summer the Norwegian Natural History Museum of the University of Oslo will host the first exhibition that focuses on homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition."

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

I'd say this goes a long way to debunking the myth that homosexuality is unnatural or a lifestyle choice.
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WheelsOnFire
Fiercely Independent
11:36 PM on 01/06/2011
Bravo! Brilliantly said!
04:06 AM on 01/06/2011
Gays tout numbers in DADT repeal but ignore California vote. So democracy is only good when it goes your way?
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Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
09:50 AM on 01/06/2011
Majorities voting to deny equal rights to citizens for nothing other than religious reasons is not permissible. If you act unconstitutionally, it doesn't matter whether the majority support it, it's still unconstitutional.
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TBJ
Irrelevent Blurb
01:38 PM on 01/06/2011
The survey itself was not (or at least shouldn't have been) about whether or not it was popular. The rights of a minority should never be left up to the will of the majority.
09:15 PM on 01/05/2011
I live in Florida. My lover of 20 years makes his living based on Florida statutes -- we can't move unless we want to start an entirely new career, or after he retires. The bigots have firm control over the politics, here.

The only way Florida will ever have marriage equality is after the US Supreme Court affirms a ruling very much like Judge Walker's ruling in Perry v. Schwarzenegger. It isn't going to happen in the Florida legislature, or in the Florida courts. It has to come from the Federal courts, or not at all.

I would very much like to see that case get a ruling on the merits.. It's the best shot we are likely to have for the foreseeable future.
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Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
12:19 PM on 01/06/2011
Ditto for Texas...sigh.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
02:38 PM on 01/06/2011
Count my spouse and me in for Arizona...sigh. We legally married in Canada but have absolutely NO legal standing or protections here.
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03:28 AM on 01/07/2011
Well, hey, I'm married to my partner in Germany. I had to immigrate here. Honestly, at 48 years old I'm not sure we'll ever make it back there--I mean, immigration laws would have to change and I can't fathom total equality for at least 5-10 years. That's being optimistic. It's happening, but not fast enough. I mean, I have a good job here and have a wonderful life. But I had to give up my whole life for the one I love--with no option of bringing him to my culture. Part of me wants to denounce my citizenship in protest (and get out of filing those nasty, expensive tax returns every year). I may, for business reasons. Instead of retiring in California, we may retire in Spain... just as nice--but I would need to be an EU citizen! Lots to think about. I pray that marriage equality happens there. The U.S. seems so backwards.