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Honey, I Shrunk The Credit Score

Bank Of America

First Posted: 01/05/11 08:58 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 07:20 PM ET

Steven Marks knew he was wasting thousands of dollars every month paying the mortgage on a home he bought during the housing bubble that will never be worth that much again.

But he'd read plenty of horror stories about people having serious trouble modifying their mortgages due to bank confusion and misbehavior, so before he started looking for debt relief on his Reno, Nev. home, Marks sent a simple request to Bank of America: Could they tell him who owned his mortgage? And could they document it?

Marks didn't get the type of response he was expecting. After initially declining to tell him who owned his loan, Bank of America provided a form letter with the name of the current investor a few weeks later. But they also appear to have lowered his credit score, the preeminent measure of creditworthiness that will principally determine his ability to obtain loans in the future.

"I just asked to see my note, and they dinged my credit score. My insurance premiums have already gone up," Marks told HuffPost. "I went to see a lawyer, we're trying to figure out what my options are. After this, we're thinking about some forced mediation. Why keep paying if my credit score gets battered anyway?"

Marks asked the bank for documentation through a "Where's The Note?" website created by the Service Employees International Union and the African American grassroots-advocacy group Color of Change. Amid reports of widespread fraud in the foreclosure process, resulting in everything from illegal fees to improper evictions, the site's stated purpose is to offer borrowers legal leverage to challenge bank wrongdoing.

"To protect myself and my family, I need to know who owns my mortgage," the "Where's The Note?" request template reads. "Furthermore, in light of the recent allegations of foreclosure fraud, I demand to see the original mortgage note proving ownership over my home loan. If you fail to produce a mortgage note proving that you have a right to collect my mortgage payments, I will be forced to consider all options available to me to ensure that my family and my home are protected."

Marks, whose situation was first described by finance blogger Barry Ritholtz, wasn't used to financial instability. He said he's never missed a payment on his home, or even sent one in late. Right before sending a letter to Bank of America, he'd checked his credit score -- a near-perfect 780. He continued to pay on his mortgage after sending the request, only to find that his score had dropped 40 points to 740.

"That is astonishing," Ritholtz wrote.

A bank spokesman said it may have interpreted borrower language as a dispute, but would fix any problems created in its borrowers' credit reports.

"Certain wording used in the letters brought to the bank's attention may have been interpreted in some cases as raising a possible dispute. The bank is taking steps to clarify the handling of these requests, and when and if a dispute coding should be placed on the account," the spokesman said. "In any case, once a possible dispute has been researched and the findings result in the removal of the dispute coding, it should no longer be reflected in the customer's credit profile. Bank of America will review files that may have been impacted and make any necessary corrections in credit reporting."

SEIU spokesman John VanDeventer said the union has received more than 100 complaints similar to Marks' since the launch of "Where's the Note?" While Wells Fargo and GMAC have been the subject of a few complaints, he said, the overwhelming majority have come in regards to the activities of Bank of America.

Another of those complainants, Leigh Dasinger from Milbrook, Ala., received a form letter nearly identical to the response Marks received. The similarities in the document, which Dasinger provided to HuffPost, suggest that the bank is deploying an automated process to handle the requests.

Bank of America doesn't own either Marks' mortgage or Dasinger's -- it owns the right to "service" their loans. In good times, a loan servicer collects payments and forwards them to the investors who own the loan, skimming a little bit off the top for their services. In bad times, BofA and other servicers charge late fees, negotiate new terms with troubled borrowers and, frequently, foreclose.

Servicers report borrowers' payment history to the so-called "Big Three" credit-reporting bureaus -- Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax -- who plug that data into algorithms for determining credit-worthiness. Borrowers can raise disputes over items on their credit reports, which, apparently, is what the bank told the bureaus Marks and Dasinger were doing.

"Further as a member of the credit granting community, Bank of America, like most creditors, relies on the accuracy and validity of the information obtained from the various reporting agencies," the bank said in both its letter to Marks and its letter to Dasinger. "Therefore, we will not remove the negative credit reporting from your credit file."

HuffPost asked several credit and servicing experts to review the letter.

"When you dispute information to a creditor like BofA ... they're supposed to say 'account disputed by consumer.' But they're not disputing the information on the credit report, they're asking, 'Who owns my mortgage?'" said credit-reporting expert Evan Hendricks, editor of the newsletter Privacy Times. "Bank of America responds wrongly to this by interpreting it as something that has to do with credit reporting, and something to do with the way they're reporting a consumer's information to credit-reporting agencies."

It appears that the credit-score trouble can only affect borrowers in good standing on their mortgages. For a borrower like Marks who had never missed a payment, reclassifying his mortgage from an account in good standing to a disputed account removed good information from his credit report. As a result, his credit score dropped.

"They're treating these letters as credit-reporting disputes, but the request is not actually a dispute," said National Consumer Law Center Attorney Chi Chi Wu. "If it's retaliation -- threatening to damage someone's credit report for making a good-faith request -- that certainly raises questions about the legality of the practice under several consumer-protection laws."

Targeting a borrower's credit score could be classified as retaliation, according to Wu and other consumer lawyers, and it's illegal for banks to retaliate against borrowers for exercising their rights under many consumer-protection laws, including the Truth In Lending Act. Both TILA and the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act require banks to tell borrowers who owns their mortgage.

In fact, banks are required to notify borrowers whenever their mortgage is sold to another bank or investor, but as banks went into mortgage mayhem over the past decade, this obligation was routinely lost in the shuffle, along with other paperwork requirements -- some mere technicalities, others that lead to banks throwing the wrong people out of their homes. Bank of America has been cited for forging documents in the foreclosure process, and for improperly breaking into the homes of its borrowers.

It's not clear whether BofA is intentionally attempting to intimidate borrowers, or whether this is a mistake created by a high-volume business that is not above cutting corners in order to reduce costs.

"They tend to really automate everything they can so they don't have to use staffing resources on disputes," says Wu. "Whether it's a screwup or something more malevolent, it's definitely a problem on Bank of America's end."

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Steven Marks knew he was wasting thousands of dollars every month paying the mortgage on a home he bought during the housing bubble that will never be worth that much again. But he'd read plenty of ...
Steven Marks knew he was wasting thousands of dollars every month paying the mortgage on a home he bought during the housing bubble that will never be worth that much again. But he'd read plenty of ...
 
 
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12:12 PM on 01/21/2011
Credit scoring is a complete crock because it completely ignores and retaliates against people who chose to live debt free and not use plastic. A good friend of mine just went to buy a house he'd been living in a trailer on relatives property. He paid cash for his f350 pickup 3 years ago. He has 50k in the bank always pays cash for everything he makes good money he's a union pipefitter. He didn't have a credit score so he couldn't get a loan. Which is bull, he's living how we are all supposed to be living with in our means. He told the bank were to go and bought some property off a relative, who hold the note and is now building his home himself, bit by bit. But if the banks would have looked at the fact that he pays his rent, power bill and the propane bill on time and in cash, that should count just as much as a credit card. They'd have a nice profit making mortgage.
11:09 PM on 01/06/2011
Credit scores are for POOR people that live beyond their means and buy above what they can afford. This is the American slave , he watches football , works for his fake lifestyle , pretends it means anything . He/She works to provide a marketed to lifestyle wanting the trivial trinkets that the marketing companies tell them they need to have at the end of the day. Our food has become crap,filled with BS drugs and terrible and disgusting feed to animals that we murder for our food. Our products and life style is tiring and is making america fat and stupid . The kids are without hesitation the dumbest generation . They are short on family, education , health, and simple brain function , They have no loyalties to anything, or anyone, taking a lesson from the bankers of this country . The market is going up ?? WHY ? are we actually making anything here in this country except lies ?
10:52 PM on 01/06/2011
Really " its a bofa issue " are you sure ?? For gods sake , if you as a BANK call the police and remove a home owner in the USA from a house that they own in full , and a person that has no business with this bank is thrown into the street or put at jeopardy in the event they defend their own home from a wrongful act by Law enforcement . And this is a little mistake or issue???
The NRA needs to get their heads out of their butts , THIS IS A REAL TAKING OF THE RIGHTS OF A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WITH NO CONSEQUENCE : Oh Sorry.You were busy asking for hand guns in schools.
07:29 PM on 01/06/2011
It is our government's job to protect us from criminals. Instead of doing that they sell us to them wholesale.

And what do the reps want to do? - What is their core agenda?

SHRINK THE GOVERNMENT!!!

Yea, right. I guess murderers would also like to fire judges.

Problem here is: the murderers pay the judged so they fire themselves.

Washington fought and killed the likes which call ithemselves our government today.
08:04 PM on 01/06/2011
Expanding the govt isn't the solution , the govt is in bed with the bankers. We need invesigative journalism to expose the crooked banks and we need to sue these banks because the only way to reduce their fraudulant activity is by making them pay for their fraud. We also need to communicate with eachother and to stop doing business with Bank of America and other similar banks . Some are not nearly as corrupt as BofA.
NoBlueDogs
FIGHT Offshoring!!!
09:05 PM on 01/07/2011
How are we going to make them pay for their fraud without getting the Government involved?
06:49 AM on 01/06/2011
Credit scores are the biggest racket perpetrated on the American consumers. Think about it folks, if credit scores were a meaningful judge of who is credit worthy the real estate debacle would not have occurred. Credit scores are a means to gouge middle and lower class consumers with high interest rates.
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11:03 PM on 01/06/2011
Amen to that!!!
01:25 AM on 01/14/2011
So true. People are so fixated on getting a high credit score. Don't they get it that it's just a game to make you behave like an addict who will do anything to just keep a perfect score. Stop living beyond your means and you'll begin to see that a high score doesn't make you or break you. We have got to move beyond these systems that have been developed to trap our greedy minds.
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pjwrites
06:14 AM on 01/06/2011
Isn't your credit score all about retaliation by businesses? Guilty until proven innocent, that's the consumer.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MyResponsibility
Action over hope
07:27 AM on 01/06/2011
No, it's not. Credit reporting (both how the bureaus are supposed ti behave and how creditors are to behave re: Reporting) are governed by the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Retaliation is prohibited and there is expressed legal recourse for the consumer for such retaliatory actions (most retaliatory reporting is fine by collection agencies). Is it retaliation for a creditor to report that you paid 30 days later than what your credit agreement requires? Is it not true that a person that uses more credit as a percentage of total credit available (as in 'maxing' the credit cards) poses an added risk to a potential new creditor compared to a consumer who has low credit balances as a percentage of available credit?
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05:19 AM on 01/06/2011
"Targeting a borrower's credit score could be classified as retaliation"

B of A is the worst, IMO, from previous experience.

Lets stop letting them write the laws and lax the regulations of our government, I say. That would be a good place to start. (Barney Frank, you know what we're talking about).
01:17 AM on 01/06/2011
Maybe it is time to do banking with a local bank or credit union.

These big multinational banks do not have any ties to the local community.

We may need to think about doing business with local business that care about
the community and it's people.
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Stewart Goss
Evil requires the sanction of the victim -Ayn Rand
05:24 AM on 01/06/2011
Credit unions operate under different rules, they are subsidized by tax payers so technically you are already paying for them even if you don't have an account with them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MyResponsibility
Action over hope
07:08 AM on 01/06/2011
Credit unions are not subsidized by the taxpayer, at least not through the government taking money put into the treasury by tax payers and then sent on to CU's. They are supported by members (who are tax payers) accounts.
01:28 AM on 01/14/2011
Already have. Don't just talk about it folks. Just Do It! How about FEBRUARY 1, 2011 is Change Your Banking To Credit Union Day!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MyResponsibility
Action over hope
10:22 PM on 01/05/2011
What a ridiculous assertion.  Credit scoring is not performed by, nor controlled by creditors. The credit scoring system to which many creditors subscribe to determine credit worthiness of an applicant is the Fair Isaac Corporation, and the scoring is widely known as the FICO score.  The FICO score adjusts up/down based on many factors including frequency and age of requests for new credit, payment history, public records, and debt to available credit ratios. Had he simply requested a new utility account, or cell phone account, it would reduce his credit score. Or had he carried a higher balance on revolving credit during a month, his score would decline.  Credit scores fluctuate every month. And ones FICO score will rarely every be the same from one credit reporting agency's data to another (there are 3 primary - Experian, Equifax, TransUnion).  The data from each file is fed through the FICO scoring system, and it spits out a score - a numerical figure that represents one's overall credit risk.  High number good, low number bad.

So when Steven Marks claims BOA "dinged his credit" for simply requesting to see his not, and for his assertion to be reported as though it is fact is laughable. And for anybody here on this forum to accept it as fact needs to do a bit of research.
12:05 AM on 01/06/2011
Sounds like the FICO is a jacked up mess that really doesn't tell you squat about a person's credit worthiness. Just another shell game.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MyResponsibility
Action over hope
12:26 AM on 01/06/2011
No, not quite. Those who have a high score have that score because they pay their bills on time, do not ask for new credit often, carry low balances on their revolving credit accounts and have no liens, foreclosures, bankruptcies, or repossessions. The score removes the need for credit grantors from having to analyze each credit report and make a decision based on the judgement of the reviewer. Now they merely have to set the minimum FICO score required to get credit and it's all done. Without it, one could not apply for a cell phone account or credit card, or even a car loan and get a quick decision. The real problem with Fait Isaac is that their scoring algorithm is proprietary and is held as tightly as the recipe for Coca Cola. Difference is I don't have a right to Coke's recipe, but I should have a right to know how my credit score is created and specifically how I can improve it.
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jmyoung666
04:45 AM on 01/06/2011
So why would it have dropped? If BOA reported the request and that caused the drop, isn't BOA responsible? Or do you believe the victim is not disclosing other actions that may have lowered his credit.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MyResponsibility
Action over hope
07:00 AM on 01/06/2011
I know that scoring is complicated. Because a credit score will drop simply by there being additional debt added to revolving accounts as a percentage of total available (ie $9125 used of $20,000 available as opposed to $7150 of $20,000), or perhaps they had applied for new credit like a Sprint cell phone. Credit scores change monthly. Requesting the note would have zero affect on credit score. It's not that they aren't telling the while story, it's that they misunderstand cause/effect. It's also worthwhile to note that it is also uncommon for credit scores to be the same from bureau to bureau - this is why
09:06 PM on 01/05/2011
Honey, I shrunk your shirt again.
08:48 PM on 01/05/2011
Bvccef from planet Ohoh said: “Let me make sure I have the American people’s rage O meter properly calibrated… You pay a grown man millions of dollars to play football games”. Uh huh/
“He kills a few Pit Bulls.” Right. “Dogs, so “vicious”, they are in some communities all over America outlawed, feared and hated on, every single day.” Yep. “So now this guy is a scourge, outlaw, pariah?” As he should be. “Sensibilities offended society calls for him, a human, to spend three years in a cage.” We accept as the norm humans in cages.
“ So another man, paid millions of dollars to voice “his” opinion on TV is calling for the murder of the first guy who killed the killer dogs.” Well Tuck ain’t clocking that kinda dough but I get your drift.. So the Alien sitting next to me at the dinner laughed at the whole thing pointed to the paper headline regarding the latest bank atrocity and says .. “The educated fella on the TV is calling for the wrong guy to be executed. And if any corporate crook gets anywhere near 3 years”; Well you get where he was going… This from an alien.
08:33 PM on 01/05/2011
I don't get it -- Who dreams up these useless schemes?

Credit Scores are useless. It essentially turns people into corporate slaves. Most people's lives now revolve around their Credit Scores; which in some cases, represent that person's life's worth, because they can't live without credit.

CREDIT = DEBT. DEBT = SLAVERY, therefore...
It is easy to understand where this equation leads to.

-- America has gone from manufacturing things of real value, to manufacturing worthless financial schemes.
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laaambchop
Cheerfulness is a sign of wisdom
12:08 AM on 01/06/2011
You are indeed a wise goat.
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Stewart Goss
Evil requires the sanction of the victim -Ayn Rand
05:25 AM on 01/06/2011
America is not alone like it was in 1950, the rest of the world has caught up. Stop living in the past, we cannot be the dominant manufacturing country we used to be. Focus on where we still have an advantage.
NoBlueDogs
FIGHT Offshoring!!!
09:10 PM on 01/07/2011
And that advantage would be what, exactly?
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Freenation
08:30 PM on 01/05/2011
Sickening...
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08:16 PM on 01/05/2011
The credit scoring system is ALL fraud. And most of the banks are ALL guilty of fraud.

A friend of mine has a house that will go to foreclosure auction and the mortgage company (GMAC) won't take it back, with a deed in lieu of foreclosure. These criminal banks prefer to let it sit for months and go though foreclosure auction (which will cost money and lower everybody's property values), even though there has been no payment activity for months.
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Motorgoon
08:12 PM on 01/05/2011
Wait till assange releases his information. All I have to say is...pull your business from Bank Of America as soon as possible. From what I'm hearing, it's going to reveal the serious internal corrutption of the bank.