Duncan: College Handled Jared Loughner's Strange Behavior Appropriately

Pima Community College acted appropriately in mandating that Tuscon shooter Jared Loughner obtain a mental exam, according to Secretary of Education Arne Duncan.

Loughner, 22, has been charged in the Saturday shooting of 19 people, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. He dropped out of Pima in October after the school told him he could not keep attending unless he had a psychiatric evaluation.

In an interview with the Washington Post, Duncan supported the college's handling of the case.

"If I was the chancellor of that community college, I think that would have been my response," Duncan said. " ... My question is, lots of folks have mental issues. How's he get a gun?"

Loughner's case raises complex questions of how colleges should handle worrisome students. The fine balance between supporting the mentally ill and abiding by the law presents a quagmire for colleges -- and larger society. "This issue has vexed society and psychiatry forever," said Columbia University assistant professor of clinical psychiatry David Leibow.

According to the New York Times, schools are to this day ill-equipped to handle students who exhibit potentially violent warning signs:

Even after the 2007 massacre by a student at Virginia Tech, institutions and employers are seldom set up to handle such potential threats, experts say -- even when the warning signs are blatant and numerous.

These institutions typically have no single person or center that tracks the sorts of complaints that teachers and fellow students were making about Mr. Loughner. Nor do they have the legal authority to force people into treatment against their will.

Loughner's odd behavior at Pima had raised flags with several of his professors and lead to a handful of run-ins with campus police. The school notified Loughner's parents that their son needed a mental examination to continue in school. Beyond that, according to Leibow, there was little they could do.

Still, many who came in contact with Loughner, including Kent Slinker, his Pima philosophy professor, say that the student did not exhibit conventional warning signs. "I never sensed violence from him," Slinker told Slate.

Comments

[VA Jill]

03:17 PM on 01/11/2011

I think the college handled it correctly. However, if what I am reading is also correct, he showed problems in high school too. Did the high school do anything about that (including his reported bullying of Jewish students) or not? And how about his parents? Could they not see something was not right? It's not just the college's responsibility.

[chiropter]

10:17 PM on 01/11/2011

Apparently, the father was antisocial in his own right. Clearly, this is not a case of developmental trauma or dementia and is simply a classic case of congenital mental illness. It is sad all around- including the fact that no one got this man on the medication he needed.

[sjlgirl]

12:35 PM on 01/11/2011

What a tragic incident. For those people who say that there is no right and wrong, and that there is no truth, I wonder what they say about what happened. We all have an inborn sense of right and wrong that God has given to us. And I would say that a definite truth would be that what this man did was completely wrong.

[SuperMex]

12:11 PM on 01/11/2011

America’s Sheriff: Clarence Dupnik

[Chico41]

11:53 AM on 01/11/2011

"My question is, lots of folks have mental issues. How's he get a gun?"

Really?? In the United States you ask how someone with mental issues could get a gun? From what I've seen and heard anyone can get a gun at anytime in most States, so it doesn't surprise me at all that he had access to weapons.

[HerrMonk]

12:00 PM on 01/11/2011

I'm curious where on earth you think it'd be difficult to obtain a gun?

If you're going to murder someone, I'm pretty sure you're not worried about breaking firearms laws.

[IndependentGadfly]

12:07 PM on 01/11/2011

He was never adjudicated to be mentally ill or criminally insane. So obtaining a gun was his legal right.

[Kiki1kat]

01:49 PM on 01/11/2011

It's always their "legal right" and that's the problem. It was so blatantly obvious that he was mentally unstable but anyone can get a gun and it's their legal right. That needs to be changed.

[Harpotoo]

11:25 AM on 01/11/2011

Right! It was the SHERRIF WHO DIDN'T!

Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County.

[SirenForSanity]

12:12 PM on 01/11/2011

The law is very limited in ability to respond to such situations. This is a wake up call for family members of the mentally ill to take the appropriate steps to legally commit troubled relatives. It is a very painful step but the greater kindness in the long run. The stigma associated with mental illness is the main reason that so many do not act.

[pomojane]

05:18 PM on 01/11/2011

The law also makes it difficult for families to get helped for loved ones. I have a schizophrenic relative I have tried to get help for repeatedly, calling social services and police on multiple occasions. Because he is an adult, there's little they can do. I've even been told I have to wait until he tries to hurt someone.

One alternative is to go to court and try to gain some sort of conservatorship or guardianship--no easy feat either. And even if you do win that and have the person committed, they will eventually be released. And it's tough, even for a family member, to physically force a full grown man/woman to take their daily medication or attend psychotherapy.

For the gravely mentally ill, the best solution is often some form of full time care in an appropriate medical facility. There's not many of those around. Especially for families that aren't wealthy.

[iconoclast6]

11:23 AM on 01/11/2011

I have, on occasion, had disturbed students pass through my classes, and since I only get them for three hours a week, it's not always easy to tell which ones may become violent at some future time. For example, I had a particularly difficult case last term. Every time he spoke in class, it was something incoherent about being traumatized by a ouija board. Clearly this kid wasn't seeing the right people.  I spoke to Student Services, and what I found was that the law is very clear. If the student isn't an immediate danger, he has to seek assistance on his own. Governor Ronald Reagan, remember, decided that mentally ill people should be able to manage their own health care.

[REDSTATEREFUGEE]

10:23 AM on 01/13/2011

Thanks for your anecdote, Iconoclast.....I met my first classes this week and one student confided to me that he/she ( gender non-specific for confidentiality ) might begin crying in class for no apparent reason, and that he/she has been diagnosed as bipolar. Since he/she is twenty years old and currently under treatment, there is little I can do, except try to make the class as non-threatening to him/her as possible.

To all Huffposters out there, please know that college and university professors are limited in intervening with adults who, as Iconoclast notes, are responsible for their own healthcare, including mental. This frustrating situation is especially true in open admissions community colleges, where I teach....

[vinny]

11:19 AM on 01/11/2011

did the community college provide Loughner with any in-house counseling services?

[IndependentGadfly]

12:08 PM on 01/11/2011

they did their job and informed his parents. What more could they have done?

[vinny]

12:10 PM on 01/11/2011

pima community like most colleges provide students counseling services to deal with personal issues.

how were these services extended to Loughner?

[Salanry]

12:13 PM on 01/11/2011

When dealing with a student situation such as Loughner's, the in-house counseling office can mandate an initial threat assessment along with a follow-up to ensure that the student is not a threat to themselves or others. If a student does not comply with this referral, they are asked to leave the school or could face other sanctions. It sounds like he did the former. At that point, the college cannot really do much to follow up with the student and any issues they might have been dealing with. He never really broke any laws while at Pima CC, he just violated college policy, probably something in regards to comments he made in class which interfered with classroom learning environment or failing to comply with reasonable directives of the faculty member. Because he did not break the law, the Police and Mental Health Services had no authority to become involved. Most Universities have been inundated with mental health issues recently. This, along with budget cuts, hinder a schools ability to offer in-house counseling services outside of these initial threat assessments. Most cases are usually referred to an off-campus specialists but this case never made it that far. A real tragedy.

[4GodandAmerica]

11:16 AM on 01/11/2011

This is the result of the empty, amoral liberal doctrine being shoved down there throats at government-controled community colleges, Privatize them all and sweep the liberals out of our schools.

[vinny]

11:26 AM on 01/11/2011

maybe you don't know, but Loughner posted a YouTube video saying pretty much the same thing you just did... ironic, eh?

[ecotorium]

12:00 PM on 01/11/2011

4godandamerica and that numbn.u.ts think alike???? no. ways.

[HerrMonk]

12:01 PM on 01/11/2011

He probably also drove a car which I'm sure you do sometimes. Ironic?

[db08]

11:47 AM on 01/11/2011

On wht basis are you making such a outrageous comment. Community colleges offer opportunities for all Americans. They give people a second and third chances to renew or change careers. Services offered to help students in a range of areas are better than those at university.
Pima did from what I can tell the best they could in offer a solution while protecting the educaltional process for all students. They could have had the campus police simply ban him from campus.

[janeInCA]

11:03 AM on 01/11/2011

when does the law allow intevention and removal of mental disturbed individuals off the streets and in mental institutions, if any still exists? especially in CA, most of homeless people have mental problems.

[iconoclast6]

11:25 AM on 01/11/2011

Short answer: It doesn't, unless the individual is an immediate threat. That was all deregulated under Governor Reagan, who saved us a bundle by releasing the vast majority of mental patients.

[Salanry]

12:30 PM on 01/11/2011

That is a slippery slope my friend. Loughner was also not homeless. He had not broken any laws previous to this either. I hope this tragedy is not used as an excuse to give authorities the discretion to make the determination that someone is suffering a mental disorder that warrents being committed. Especially in AZ which has already cut so many social services, including professionals who could adequetly assess an individual's mental state.

[jgzeger]

10:57 AM on 01/11/2011

Prior to the shooting, Pima Community College were the ONLY ones in Arizona who handled Jared Loughner appropriately. His former instructor summed up Loughner pefectly in saying that his brains seemed "scrambled."

[vinny]

10:58 AM on 01/11/2011

so you are happy with the result of kicking Loughner to the curb?

[jgzeger]

11:03 AM on 01/11/2011

They didn't kick him to the curb. They told him to come back after he got some counselling. In the meanwhile, they protected their students by expelling him from school.

[IndependentGadfly]

12:13 PM on 01/11/2011

Quite frankly, I am satisfied with what they did. Hindsight is 20/20.

[vinny]

10:55 AM on 01/11/2011

this article blowz

exactly what did this guy do at the community college to warrant a mental eval?

exactly how do school officials deny/hinder someone's educational opportunities based on "run-ins"?

(save your speculations/judgments, the article did that already, just provide the missing relevant information)

[Salanry]

12:27 PM on 01/11/2011

In an english class a fellow student was reading a poem she had written regarding a time she went to get an abortion. Loughner stood up and called her a terrorist/murderer. Though the debate about abortion could be made in a discussion course about current social policies, this was a poetry class and that student was sharing something very private and intimate. This was just one example of outbursts and student complaints that Loughner had while at Pima.
I work as an Adminstrator at a large public university. I used to work in AZ as well. It is extremely difficult to remove a student from an institution. Students are afforded due process in all proceedings regarding their education, including suspensions and removal. Loughner was informed that he had possibly violated the Code of Student Conduct (interfering with university teaching and the learning environment, creating a hostile environment, etc.), they gave him an opportunity to meet to discuss the charges, and they asked him to comply with universtiy sanctions.

[vinny]

10:43 AM on 01/11/2011

college washed their hands, duncan approves, blames guns instead. figures.

[Rita at Goldivas]

10:51 AM on 01/11/2011

The college has to act within a legal framework, don't you get that?

[vinny]

10:56 AM on 01/11/2011

please cite that legal framework below:

[AFunkyNight]

10:42 AM on 01/11/2011

wagons .....form your circle right here.

[queeraz]

10:38 AM on 01/11/2011

Sadly, mental health is swept under the carpet most of the time. There is a long line for people who seak help but, it usually takes an extreme incidence before most insurances allow you to be seen. Few people who are in need of help actually admit and seek help on their own. We wait for them to " hit bottom" before we intervene. Unfortunately, many others ended up being harmed because no one got him the help he needed.

[SomewhereInLeftField]

10:21 AM on 01/11/2011

Secretary Duncan is spot on.

We restrict driving privileges with respect to people with vision or hearing impairments because we fear that they pose a danger to others when behind the wheel of a car. We do the same thing with airline pilots. Adopting a child is a monstrous process, because we want to make sure that would-be-parents will not cause harm to the adoptee.

But when it comes to requiring permits to purchase firearms, to screen out those with mental health issues, the NRA says forget about it.

We can debate forever (and probably never reach consensus on) the extent to which the deterioration in our civic discourse and dialogue motivated this man to commit this crime. But it seems perfectly clear to me that he should never, ever have been allowed to have a firearm, and but for his possession of that weapon, this tragedy would never have occurred.

[Endotoxin]

10:30 AM on 01/11/2011

Funny because IF the NRA consented to having even a minimal battery of mental competence and psychological evaluations to acquire a gun and gun license, they would be able to defend against the majority of attacks when it comes to their opponents proposing a change to their favorite amendment.

[HerrMonk]

12:09 PM on 01/11/2011

What your suggesting is a "guilty until proven innocent" approach.

That's not how we deal with constitutional rights. You don't need to be evaluated to get your free speech card by demonstrating you're stable enough not to yell "Fire" every time you're in a crowded theater.

Whenever someone purchases a fire-arm, there's a background check. On of many ways to fail the check and be denied the purchase is to have a history of mental illness.

Your attacks are dis-directed. If you want it to be more difficult to people with mental illnesses to get a hold of fire arms, then you need to push for getting a higher % of those with mental illness institutionalized (against their will in many cases) so that they're in the system.

Argue that men in white-lab coats should have come and taken this kid away when the school because worried.