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Fed Economist To Greenspan In 2005: Discovery Channel's 'Flip That House' Should Cause 'Existential Crisis'

First Posted: 01/14/11 12:33 PM ET Updated: 05/25/11 07:25 PM ET

Greenspan Flip That House

In late 2005, as the housing bubble that would ultimately pop and bring down the economy continued to inflate, Federal Reserve economists briefed the central bank's then chairman, Alan Greenspan, on the state of the economy during a meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee.

Amid an onslaught of data showing a cloudy forecast, one economist raised a point at that Dec. 13 meeting that could have brought home the case that the Fed had let the housing market spin out of control.

"I offer one more piece of evidence that I think almost surely suggests that the end is near in this sector. While channel-surfing the other night, to the annoyance of my otherwise very patient wife, I came across a new television series on the Discovery Channel entitled 'Flip That House,'" economist David Stockton said, prompting a roomful of laughter according to the transcript. "As far as I could tell, the gist of the show was that with some spackling, a few strategically placed azaleas and access to a bank, you too could tap into the great real-estate wealth machine. It was enough to put even the most ardent believer in market efficiency into existential crisis. [Laughter]"

The Fed, the home of many of the most ardent believers in market efficiency, did not go through an existential crisis, however, and did little to slow down surging prices or warn consumers that "the end is near." Instead, many consumers continued to purchase homes under the mistaken impression that housing prices would continue to rise.

In those homebuyers' defense, elite economists were saying the same thing. "[I]t is hard to say that the housing market is anything but robust," Roger Ferguson, a Fed governor, said at the same 2005 meeting.

Earlier that year, during its June meeting, the Fed heard evidence that the market could be overvalued by as much as one-fifth, and Stockton's presentation to Greenspan and the FOMC cited evidence other than cable shows that the housing market was overheated.

"[R]eports of cooling in the housing markets seem to me to be more frequent and more widespread than was the case six months ago," Stockton said. "As we noted in yesterday's Board briefing, a variety of indicators of housing activity have turned down in recent months. Household attitudes toward home buying have dropped sharply; builder ratings of new home sales have deteriorated; the index of mortgage applications for home purchase has fallen off; and the inventory of unsold homes has moved up. Taken in isolation, none of these measures has an especially reliable statistical relationship to housing activity. But taken together, they could be indicating that we are at the front edge of some cooling in these markets."

Dean Baker, an economist who had spotted the housing bubble long before the Discovery Channel did, said that the wrong people have lost their jobs as a result of the Fed policy's failure. "It's amazing that it somehow never occurred to him/her that house prices would actually fall," he said in response to the "Flip That House" comment. "They should be fired for not recognizing this possibility and its implication."

Stockton is still at the Federal Reserve, where he serves as the division director for research and statistics. He did not return a request for comment.

HuffPost readers: If you find anything else noteworthy in the newly released transcripts, email ryan@huffingtonpost.com, indicating the month of the meeting.

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In late 2005, as the housing bubble that would ultimately pop and bring down the economy continued to inflate, Federal Reserve economists briefed the central bank's then chairman, Alan Greenspan, on t...
In late 2005, as the housing bubble that would ultimately pop and bring down the economy continued to inflate, Federal Reserve economists briefed the central bank's then chairman, Alan Greenspan, on t...
 
 
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11:04 AM on 01/18/2011
It is not just the housing market that has been overworked. Food prices continue to rise as more and more brokers, factors and distributors get between producers and consumers. Every one is taking a cut, and passing the increase on to the end buyer. We need more producers and fewer middlemen.
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GlobalCtzn
WE are creating our world
10:55 AM on 01/17/2011
I wonder how big Greenspan's GOLD holdings are?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ed Haskell
Sometimes too much drink is barely enough...
12:03 AM on 01/17/2011
Not sure that this is really relevant, but it's interesting (?) who Greenspan went form being the Einstein of the Financial world, to being arguably one of it's most disparaged failures ever.

There's got to be some sort of lesson in that...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ed Haskell
Sometimes too much drink is barely enough...
12:05 AM on 01/17/2011
er, "how", not "who"...
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FoxIslander
Fox Island...no relation to Fox News
12:12 PM on 01/17/2011
..its a post comment...not a thesis.
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read matt taibbi
Neither left, nor right. Forward!
11:19 PM on 01/16/2011
How on Earth is it possible that in the 21st century we still believe that interest rates should be set by a group of "impartial" men who make learned statements like "subprime is largely contained" and other pearls of wisdom.

(In 1990 as we slipped into recession, Greenspan opined "Those who argue that we are already in recession I think are reasonably certain to be wrong")

Fed needs to be seriously reformed. It is a unholy amalgamation of an insider trading ring
and big corporations' sugar daddy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ed Haskell
Sometimes too much drink is barely enough...
11:55 PM on 01/16/2011
So how do we reorganize the "partiality" and incestuous self-dealing out of the system? Change the way we pick the people who run it? Whoever you give the power to, or however you reorganize, the big financial institutions are going to be pulling their strings. So why bother.

The problem is you're aiming to low. We don't need to reorganize the Fed. We need to reorganize our election system. Publicly finance our elections, ban corporations from any form of campaign spending or donations, and limit the amount of money any individual can spend in a year on political purposes to a number the average person might spend - say $500 or so.

Do anything short of that and all you're doing is reorganizing the deck chairs on the Titanic.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
blueken
Finger Picking blues man
03:02 PM on 01/17/2011
But then you are going to be putting a lot of media people out of business. I think we are the only country in the free world that uses politics for entertainment. That would explain Palin.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sposton
right to tell what they don't want to hear
01:54 PM on 01/16/2011
The most important fact to remember is that the Fed is owned by the banks and will act in their favor. American people usually do not play much of a role in their deliberations.

Read Ellen Brown's pieces:

http://www.truth-out.org/the-fed-has-spoken-no-bailout-main-street66820

Americans must get educated on the nature of their money creation system if we are ever to extricate ourselves from the clutches of the thieving system. The Fed is at its core. We must first nationalize the Fed and bring it under the Treasury department. All other badly needed reforms can then follow.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ed Haskell
Sometimes too much drink is barely enough...
11:48 PM on 01/16/2011
The Fed board of governors is appointed by the President. The banks don't "own" the Fed - nobody really owns it - it's more of a regulatory body, endowed with powerful tools it can use to manipulate the money supply.

The fact that they didn't act to lower rates before the housing crises broke is a failure of leadership, not structure. Remember Greenspan's comment about being in a "state of shocked disbelief" that banks didn't act in their own self-interest? This as explanation for why he didn't step in to raise rates and cool off the market when whispers of a bubble first started back in `04, `05.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sposton
right to tell what they don't want to hear
12:13 AM on 01/17/2011
The Fed is a hybrid organization but it was set up to serve the banks because it preserves the power of private banks to create our money from nothing. The same could be done with our own government without incurring any debt whatsoever.

Regional Fed branches are heavily controlled by the member banks. The propaganda around the Fed is impressive but it cannot hide the fact that the Fed is a thieving scheme of the first order - institutionalized thievery.

Of course, you are free to believe the official story. ;-)
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Valerio della Porta
Entrepreneur and Web Developer
11:59 AM on 01/16/2011
Every economist knew what'was happening; the problem is that the Republicans have created a great confusion in the public between Free Markets and Unregulated Markets for political reasons.

Unregulated Markets oscillates in a cycle of boom and bust as small and big speculative bubbles form and burst.

Free Markets are highly regulated markets so that the participants operate on a level playing field: the tension between demand and offer sets fair prices. Transparency and rule enforcements are key to avoid bubbles to form.

We used to have Free Markets up to the 80's but the excessive deregulation of the Reagan administration and the repeal of Glass-Steagall removed most of the forces that kept the markets free and moved us towards unstable Unregulated Markets.

Since the political narrative is totally controlled by the Republicans and their clients there is no avenue to explain to the American public these simple concepts.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ed Haskell
Sometimes too much drink is barely enough...
11:30 PM on 01/16/2011
Actually, it was the commodity futures modernization act of 2000 (which it seems most people never even heard of) that was the real culprit. That's the legislation that allowed all these derivatives to traded without regulation as securities or futures - essentially removing these instruments from any real oversight. And it was the implosion of the derivatives that really killed the market.

Ironically, those banks that took advantage of the reorganizational avenues created by the repeal of Glass-Steagall fared, on average, much better than those banks that didn't.

I don't understand how Graham-Leach-Bliley (the repeal of Glass Stregall) became the focus of blame for the financial crisis, while the CFMA slid under the radar, but that's all anybody ever seems to want to point fingers at.
outnow
Ban the bomb
11:01 AM on 01/16/2011
The free market rheory assumes that every buyer and seller has "perfect knowledge" and that "banks will police themselves." His own son, Ron, saying that Ronald Reagan was suffering from Alzheimers during his second term. Greenspan is a demented old fool, too. He was delusional or a crook or both.

America has been demolished by these "trickle down" thinkers. Churning out fraudulent loans and bad paper is not an economy to support the hundreds of millions in this country. Glass-Steagall prevented the commercial banks from doing anything except banking, not investing and acting as insurance companies or brokers. The removal of that separation destroyed the country's finance and economy. Nothing can get better without that one step IMHO.
iridium53
Semper Fi
10:49 AM on 01/16/2011
So THAT'S what Greenspan's fed during their meetings - made jokes about the housing bubble.

Good stuff.
Maybe Greenspan will go on his wife's television show and do standup?
He can make jokes about the unemployed, the homeless, the poor - that he and his brethren helped to create.
Or, maybe he can make jokes about how those same homeless, and poor had to pay so that their banking buddies could stay rich.

What a hoot!
outnow
Ban the bomb
10:37 AM on 01/16/2011
When the music's over, turn out the lights.

- The Doors

With real wages falling and real estate prices climbing, anyone could see the disconnect from reality.

There have been a couple of dips back in 1991 after the Gulf War in Southern California. I knew that it was unsustainable back in 2006 because it was increasing build on subprime, interest only loans, false appraisals, off-balance sheet transactions by banks, too many investors in the market, liar's loans, Triple A credit ratings to derivatives and MBSs.

The offshouring and outsourcing effects were deferred by credit expansion and an artificial increase in the market. Bankers got their bonuses and unloaded the bad paper in Europe.

It was all a total scam which has destroyed the country. Re-enecatment of Glass-Steagall is the only remedy because (they) the bankers are bankrupt because they won't buy each others bad paper in the repurchasee market. Hm...I wonder why.
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local21
33% recall rate, Walker is next
07:14 AM on 01/16/2011
In the early 80's my company transferred me from Chicago to LA. I was dumbfounded in the difference in housing price and yet wages were pretty close. It defied all business/common sense to me and I was convinced the prices couldn't be sustainable. It took close to 25 years for the bubble to burst, I'm lucky I was transferred out of California in the early 00's.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carolab
Walking an 87-year-old in the sand isn't easy
05:40 AM on 01/16/2011
Dean Baker, an economist who had spotted the housing bubble long before the Discovery Channel did, said that the wrong people have lost their jobs as a result of the Fed policy's failure. "It's amazing that it somehow never occurred to him/her that house prices would actually fall," he said in response to the "Flip That House" comment. "They should be fired for not recognizing this possibility and its implication."

I wonder which economist that was.

Baker wrote recently in The Guardian

America's Housing Bubble Still Deflating

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jan/03/useconomy-economics
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PhilipTaylor
Legalized Bribery is an Oxymoron - must END
05:18 AM on 01/16/2011
GREENSCAMMER!
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JacksonAndy78
Usury Interest FEEDS BANKSTERS
05:25 AM on 01/16/2011
Exactly!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
02:31 AM on 01/16/2011
Our entire economy has become one giant fraud. As for the housing market? Prices will fall till they meet a real level of value, and hopefully stay there. We don't need any more bubbles.
http://socyberty.com/economics/murder-of-the-middle-class/
12:32 AM on 01/16/2011
They can say whatever they want but I don't think the U.S. will EVER enjoy another housing market like it once did. Not in my life time anyway. Gone are the days of purchasing a home, staying in it for a few years and then making a profit. You'll be happy to close and not owe any money when selling the house.

At this point I don't even encourage any 20 something person to even buy a home unless he plans to live there for life. Hate to sound like Doomsday but the writing is clearly on the wall. Don't believe any of the stories about rebounding. We've had so many builders go out of business here and people who are now upside down on their mortgages--owing $350,000 but can't sell their home for even $240,000. It's even worse in other states--homes built for $400,000 now worth $100,000.
Even where my brother lives, executive homes starting at $700,000, his builder has gone out of business. Those homes are now worth half.
After we sell our home, I don't know if we'll ever be home owners again unless we find a very good deal.

Over a 1,000,000 home foreclosed on in the U.S. in the last year! Don't believe the hype. The housing market isn't going anywhere.
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southingtonian
"I'm a Capricorn and you can't make me do sh*t.."
03:06 AM on 01/16/2011
I hope we don't see such a market again. Only speculators and naifs were buying near the end. The naifs got burned badly, and many of the speculators too. In the end, the taxpayers are footing the bill, while the big players walk off laughing.
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read matt taibbi
Neither left, nor right. Forward!
11:23 PM on 01/16/2011
Well said. Profits should be made by hard work or innovative ideas.
Not by staying in your house.

F&F
11:30 PM on 01/15/2011
Many of my friends believed the housing lie. They said, there was no bubble, prices were market driven, buyers were coming in from Asia, etc. Some did well, while others got caught holding the bag. None I believe, knew that the government, banks, and financial entities were fraudulently packaging and passing off these horrible instruments as AAA. This fraud sustained and expanded the market bubble to a Hindenberg size. Many new they were junk, yet none were prosecuted.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
USNDC
Smartest President ever ? ... not even close.
09:34 AM on 01/16/2011
Obama and his DOJ don't see any problems here.