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France Gay Marriage Ban Is Constitutional, Top Watchdog Rules

French Lesbian Couple

JAMEY KEATEN   01/28/11 01:36 PM ET   AP

PARIS — Paris' mayor is openly gay. Personalities like the longtime lover of late fashion guru Yves Saint Laurent play high-profile roles in French society. Gay rights groups are as vocal as they come in France.

But the country whose motto is "Liberte, Egalite and Fraternite" and whose name rhymes with romance hasn't given the love and commitment of same-sex couples an equal legal standing to that of heterosexuals.

An ongoing debate over the issue is now gathering steam.

A trigger point came on Friday when the Constitutional Court – an esteemed body that counts former Presidents Jacques Chirac and Valery Giscard d'Estaing as members – ruled that laws banning gay marriage don't violate the constitution. They said any change is for parliament to decide.

Supporters of same-sex marriage say France is behind the curve of societal change, and playing catch-up to other European nations that already legalized it: the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Portugal and Iceland.

Even without the legal right to the word "married," same-sex couples don't enjoy equal rights in France. They can form civil unions, but those do not confer inheritance rights or joint custody of goods, among other things.

In its decision, the council noted that lawmakers had agreed that the "difference in situations of same-sex couples and couples made up of a man and a woman can justify a difference in treatment concerning family rights."

The ruling puts the issue at the doorstep of the governing conservatives of unpopular President Nicolas Sarkozy ahead of presidential and legislative elections next year. A poll released Friday shows growing public support for the idea of gay marriage – and the leftist opposition immediately pounced.

The Communist Party criticized the ruling, saying "France has retained its dunce cap over the right for people of the same sex to marry, when many other European countries remedied this inequality a long time ago."

Some countered that legal tradition in France, which also has a solid strain of family-values supporters, was upheld.

"We can only hail this decision, which respects our political-judicial tradition," said Christine Boutin, head of the small Christian-Democratic party. "The right to marry for homosexual couples would only be the first step before adoption follows."

Gay rights groups say "Le Coming-Out" is making progress, crediting improving media coverage and role models like Mayor Bertrand Delanoe of Paris, who came out publicly years ago. Pierre Berge, the longtime partner of Yves Saint Laurent, cultivates a high-profile as an activist and philanthropist and recently became a co-owner of top-drawer daily Le Monde.

But "coming out of the closet" is always "a personal decision," said Stephane Corbin, a spokesman for Federation LGBT. In a statement Friday, the advocacy group said its members "plan not to be sub-citizens any more."

Even Boutin, long a bete-noire for gay-rights groups, has "eased up" on her positions on issues of homosexuality over the years, Corbin said.

Gone are the days during the social upheaval of 1968, when gays in France opposed marriage as a "bourgeois" institution – now, they simply want to enjoy the same rights as everybody else, he said.

The LGBT is one of an array of gay rights groups in activism-friendly France, whose foot soldiers waved placards and shouted slogans outside the Constitutional Council office when the ruling came down Friday.

"The Constitutional Council missed its date with history," the Association of Gay and Lesbian Parents and Future Parents in a statement said. "It has punted the job of changing the law to the lawmaker."

Emblematic of the dangers gays still face in France, hours after the council's ruling, a court east of Paris was handing down its verdict against four men on trial for attempted murder and "barbarity and torture" against Bruno Wiel, whom they allegedly lured into a hotel room after he left a gay bar in Paris in 2006, an attack that prosecutors called a homophobic crime. Wiel was beaten, stabbed with a lit cigarette, and sodomized with a stick.

The appeal to the council was brought by Corinne Cestino and Sophie Hasslauer, who have lived together for 15 years, have four kids and want the right to wed. They challenged the constitutionality of the civil code's stipulation that marriage must be between a man and a woman.

Cestino, speaking on France-Info radio, acknowledged the ruling was "clearly a big disappointment."

"French society is ready (for gay marriage)," she said. "The block rests with politician."

Polls suggest she is right. A poll published Friday by Canal Plus TV found 58 percent of respondents believe gays should be able to marry – a double-digit percentage point increase from a similar poll five years ago – while 35 percent believe they should not.

Against the backdrop of such figures, Corbin said his group is looking forward to the election-year debate.

"We are far from the end, but the fight is continuing," he said, "and 2012 is going to be the culmination."

___

Sophie Tetrel and Catherine Gaschka contributed to this report.

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PARIS — Paris' mayor is openly gay. Personalities like the longtime lover of late fashion guru Yves Saint Laurent play high-profile roles in French society. Gay rights groups are as vocal as the...
PARIS — Paris' mayor is openly gay. Personalities like the longtime lover of late fashion guru Yves Saint Laurent play high-profile roles in French society. Gay rights groups are as vocal as the...
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Yank in France
Rien se cree tout se transforme
10:44 AM on 03/09/2011
What seems to be missing from all the noise here is a recognition that French gays already have civil unions in France, which amount to marriage in all but name anyway.

However, if it would make people happy, I propose that we ban marriage for straight people and reserve it for gays.

After all, gays are the only ones who are rushing to a long antiquated stereotype, known as marriage, anyway!!
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chaya
Another proud veteran
03:49 PM on 02/06/2011
""difference in situations of same-sex couples and couples made up of a man and a woman can justify a difference in treatment concerning family rights."'

Yeah. So like my friends John and Maggie shouldn't be allowed to marry or inherit because they're single and never had children. Same with Bruce and April.

Rightwingers in this country constantly screech about France and socialism, but the French seem to having just as hard a time thinking their way out of a paper bag as they do.
09:04 PM on 02/03/2011
When I think of France I don't think of 'family values'. The fact that gay marriage is outlawed there is absolutely mind boggling! Out of all the various countries, one would think liberal France would have a progressive stance on this topic.
03:57 PM on 02/03/2011
The 'rights of homosexuals' are irrelevant IF you believe that every human being should have equal rights. As this article states, France, the country that promotes itself as the bastion of Liberty, Equality and Brotherhood, same-sex union or PACS, is allowed under civil law but it is not akin to heterosexual marriage, it is important to note .
The French stance is quite absurd as my story will show. I PACSed with my boyfriend who is from Thailand. We asked for a visa so we could remain together in Paris but were refused by the Police who administer visas. Although, we fulfilled all the criteria requested by the police, they refused to change their minds, even when we requested the intervention of the Prefet de Police de Paris, the Police prefect.
Had we have been a heterosexual couple, the law would have protected us and the visa would have been granted.
So we applied for a visa to live in London, where same sex partnerships are recognized as marriage, by the UK. The insanity of the situation was that the British accepted our visa application based on the fact that we were PACSed in France. They accepted the PACS granted under French law that the French didn't accept themselves.
The hypocrisy of the French administration is surpassed only by the absurdity of the situation.
11:29 AM on 01/31/2011
Can someone help me out with this: in the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights, under Non-discrimination, paragraph 1 reads: "Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex...or sexual orientation shall be prohibited."

My question: is anyone trying to chase this up to the highest court in the EU? That seems like it would be a guaranteed strike-down of any gay marriage ban across the EU, wouldn't it?
03:13 PM on 01/31/2011
Hello splinky I am sorry to disapoint you but the highest court will not follow you. They rulled that same sex wedding are not unconstitutionnal, they do not affect wedding right, and are not discriminating.
and I am sorry but under french law, homosexual and heterosexual have the same right regarding wedding,
To mary in france you should
* be over 18years (for both)
* not to be married
* not to be third degrees parent
* not to be of the same sex.

So nothing about sexual orientation, two homosexuals can be married even together if they want, as long as they respect the rules.

Gay marriage is legal in France, not same sex marriage.

Damien
03:50 PM on 01/31/2011
I think we're having a language problem, here.

That's not what the article says:

"laws banning gay marriage don't violate the constitution"
"Even without the legal right to the word 'married,' same-sex couples don't enjoy equal rights in France. They can form civil unions, but those do not confer inheritance rights or joint custody of goods, among other things."

You say it yourself:
"homosexual and heterosexu­al have the same right regarding wedding. To marry in France, you should...not be of the same sex"

Therefore it is impossible for homosexuals to be married to each other.

And "gay marriage" is the same thing as "same sex marriage."

Thanks, for the response, though.
03:59 PM on 02/03/2011
I don't understand. Gay marriage and same sex marriage is the same thing and it is illegal in France.
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Florida1966
Why are you reading my micro-bio?
10:14 AM on 01/31/2011
Viva Le France, at least they have a backbone.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
J Michael Norris
02:51 AM on 02/04/2011
Want some freedom fries with that?

Yep, a backbone to say that they will treat people as less. Allowing civil unions, but not allowing complete equality. To me that's disgusting.

"Seperate but equal is always seperate but never equal."
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
palisades02
Keep Calm and carry on
10:08 PM on 01/30/2011
When individuals say that Marriage is a sacred institution and gay marriage violates that sanctity, It's based on the assumption that the state has the responsibility to "sanctify" marriages - a fundamentally religious idea.

Here we're dealing with people trying to enforce their religious doctrines on someone else, but they are doing it through weakening the separation of church and state and by undermining the Bill of Rights. Not that there's anything new about this, of course. But the attempt itself runs against the grain of everything the First Amendment stands for - one does not truly have freedom of religion if one does not have the right to freedom from religion as well.
It would seem to me that anyone who feels that the sanctity of their marriage is threatened by a gay couple down the street having the right to marry, is mighty insecure about their religion anyway.

Even if one accepts the presumption of the United States as a bible-believing, Christian nation as an acceptable legal doctrine, as many conservative Christians insist, and the bible should be the basis for the sacred institution of marriage, perhaps those Christians should get out their bibles and actually read them for a change. Including all the inconvenient passages that not only permit but can even require polygamy, involuntary marriage and the like.

The institution of marriage as it is practiced in the real world is a culturally defined institution, not biblically defined.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jasel
Nurse
09:58 PM on 01/30/2011
After that ridiculous Burqa ban (which ironically got a lot of support) can't say I'm really surprised at this.
05:06 PM on 01/30/2011
The way people on this website talk about the "restrictive institution" of marriage most of the time, I'm surprised you support marriage rights for anybody. Everyone seems to hate marriage unless it's for gay people.

I support gay marriage, but the hypocrisy is stunning.
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chaya
Another proud veteran
03:54 PM on 02/06/2011
Everyone? Why on earth are you putting me in your "hate marriage" category?

I have to admit I'm confused. Every time HuffPo runs an article about gay marriage, rightwingers flood in and ironically enough, wind up complaining about how awful marriage is.

Now you're accusing ALL liberals, including gays, of hating marriage, too? Even though that is all we want?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DrObvious
No more business as usual
04:57 PM on 01/30/2011
France, like the USA,  is a democracy still improving on itself.   So, if the ruling that laws banning gay marriage don't violate the constitution is a reasonable rulling,  the French people can still change this bigotry through an act of parliament.
 
Eventually the anti-gay bigotry will fade,  as the bigots lose their hatred over time because there is no legitimate beef between gays and non-gays
03:28 PM on 01/31/2011
Hello Dr Obvious, it is exactly what the "Constitutionnal Court" said. The law against same sex marriage is not unconstitutionnal, so if it is up to the Parliament to change the law, it is not a "power" of the "Constitutionnal Court" to pass laws

And we just had a pool in France about same sex marriage.
58% are for
35% are against
and the favorable opinion is more developpet among women(63%), and people below 35(74 %)

further, as time goes it is more and more people in favor of it.
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Amryxx
politeness rules, but with sharpened edges
04:54 PM on 01/30/2011
I can honestly say that this is a surprise for me. You'd expect this from Ireland, for example - but France?
12:26 PM on 01/31/2011
The court only ruled that there is nothing in their constitution that would make a ban unconstitutional. Not whether is a good or bad law. However it will be interesting to see what happens if the opponents of the ban take the issue to the EU human rights court. The EU charter specifically mentions sexual orientation.
07:08 AM on 01/30/2011
They want to get married in Notre Dame cathedral?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DrObvious
No more business as usual
05:01 PM on 01/30/2011
undefined
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DrObvious
No more business as usual
05:04 PM on 01/30/2011
Who wants that?   Where did anybody bring up French church buildings?    You do know that there are "Notre Dame" cathedrals through out France, not just the one on Paris that gets a lot of tourist attention.
 
Doubt the Catholic Church will sanction gay weddings at the time France finally comes to their senses as a political society
 
aside - the "undefined" post was one i tried to cancel .... instead it posted with just the contents undefined.   maybe my browser is not functioning correctly  - any way "undefined" is a post to ignore and delete
11:13 PM on 01/30/2011
you don't think two people of the same gender are going to want to have a ceremony in the Notre Dame Cathedral of Paris? Don't they have weddings there?

If so, then yes, the Catholic church will have to face the pressure from the activists.

We might even see GLBT protests outside the vatican like we are seeing in Egypt.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Luke Friesen
12:13 AM on 01/30/2011
if you consider it a marriage but the state/country consider it a civil union or by another name, but the rights are equal is that so bad or is the word really so important. Don't get me wrong I completely support gay rights including marriage and adoption but as long as they are equal in everything but name, is it really so bad?
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WheelsOnFire
Equality Crusader
10:00 AM on 01/30/2011
It's bad because it continues to relegate gays into a separate class.

Straights get marriage.

Gays get something else.

It's divisive.
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Luke Friesen
11:56 AM on 01/30/2011
thank you for clarifying, yes it does seem divisive and seperate and that no place in modern society.
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nikanj
free the fnords
07:44 PM on 01/30/2011
Well, since by definition gays are not straight,
your argument really doesn't make any sense.

Personally, I would like to see Domestic Partnerships
for any couple / group / whatever who share a household.
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JeanVA
Wolves - the mother of all dog-kind.
04:10 PM on 01/30/2011
At least in France, the 'civil union' does NOT convey the same rights as 'marriage'.

The article says: "They can form civil unions, but those do not confer inheritance rights or joint custody of goods, among other things."
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joeyfoto
“Écraser l'infamie!”
08:34 PM on 01/29/2011
There is a legal point of view that says this will be more strongly and convincingly changed when it is done by elected legislators and not decided by a few judges... That worked for President Obama when the US Senate finally voted to end DADT. The rumblings about reversal died almost immediately except the predictably hysterical ones from religious zealots.

France is a very democratic country; politics is the home-team here. This will change.

PS. I'm not sure that I agree with any of that... I could easily argue that it is the duty of judges to protect civil rights... but the above explanation is the most optimistic response I could offer to what is basically a bad decision.
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Cameron Hodge
"Liberal Elitist" ;)
05:10 PM on 01/29/2011
Ironic that the one country the right loves to mock and denegrate the most are actually almost right in step with them when it comes to backward hillbilly judicial decisions.

Now that they've curtailed peaceful Muslim religious practice and legislated gays into a second class of person, all they're missing is the gun fetishism and the cramming of Jesus down everyone else's throats.