Do Egyptians Want Both Democracy And A Role For Religion In Their Government?

Reza Aslan via WaPo On Faith:

The dramatic images streaming out of Egypt over the past week suggest that the 30-year dictatorship of America's close ally, Hosni Mubarak, might be coming to an end.

The world is watching closely to see what kind of country may emerge from the latest popular revolt to rock the Arab world. Yet in the United States, the conversation -- as usual when it comes to the Middle East -- seems fixated on the singular issue of Islam, and more specifically, on the role that the Muslim Brotherhood may play in Egypt's future. GOP presidential hopeful Rick Santorum is already drawing parallels between the young protesters calling for an end to the brutal and repressive Mubarak regime, and the popular protests that, three decades ago, brought down another despicable dictator and former American ally, the Shah of Iran. "We abandoned [the Shah] and what we got in exchange was ... a radical Islamist regime," Santorum said. Mike Huckabee, another GOP presidential hopeful, joined in the hysteria, warning Americans that, "If in fact the Muslim Brotherhood is underneath much of the unrest [in Egypt] every person who breathes ought to be concerned."

Read the whole story: Reza Aslan via WaPo On Faith

Comments

[LMPE]

08:21 PM on 02/02/2011

Is it just me or does that photo look like an add for a porno movie?

[HeevenSteven]

09:55 PM on 02/01/2011

Isn't it rich that religious activist fan atics like Santorum and Huckabee are worried about religious fan atics.

[HeevenSteven]

09:54 PM on 02/01/2011

Isn't it rich that religious activist fanatics like Santorum and Huckabee are worried about religious fanatics.

[ManuOB1]

08:44 PM on 02/01/2011

Why not? Italy, Spain, Greece, Israel, India, Indonesia, Thailand and Turkey have strong religious underpinnings and are doing quite well democratically.

[glockman]

06:23 PM on 02/01/2011

"Muslim Brotherhood will have a significant role to play in post-Mubarak Egypt. And that is good thing."

I will resoundingly disagree. Religion mixed with politics is utterly anathema to individual civil liberty and true freedom. Religion seeks to control, coerce.

There simply is nothing you, or anyone can ever say to me to convince me otherwise. Ever.

[Richard Aron]

02:45 PM on 02/01/2011

Jews are sympathizing with Egyptians and praying for them!

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/2011218490882163.html

[Bill Sampson]

03:04 PM on 02/01/2011

Robert Spencer! That is one objective loony!

http://spencerwatch.com/2009/08/27/robert-spencer-loonwatch-one-half-of-the-leftist-mooslim-alliance/

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2010/6/10/robert-spencer-leads-bigots-in-protest-against-staten-island.html

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/washington-post-neutral-on-anti-muslim-bigots-robert-spencer-and-pamela-geller/

http://trueslant.com/charlesjohnson/2010/06/11/this-moment-of-pure-bigotry-brought-to-you-by-robert-spencer-and-pamela-geller/

http://spencerwatch.com/about-robert-spencer/

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/07/sioa-is-an-anti-muslim-hate-group/

[Doug Sandlin]

04:53 PM on 02/01/2011

No kidding, right?

http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2010/10/06/reza-aslan-serves-robert-spencer-overdose-of-truth/

[HANNAH TYLER]

04:46 PM on 02/01/2011

Go figure you're a Robert Spencer fan. It explains so much.

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

09:04 AM on 02/01/2011

Analysis from Daniel Pipes:

http://www.danielpipes.org/9391/turmoil-in-egypt

[Bill Sampson]

02:40 PM on 02/01/2011

Analysis of Daniel Pipes

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4606.htm

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Poisoning_Wells.htm

http://www.mpac.org/programs/anti-terrorism-campaign/the-truth-about-daniel-pipes.php

[Gbox]

09:01 PM on 02/01/2011

Mark Glenn? The professional anti-Semite? The guy who wrote "Islamic Extremism May Save Western Civilization" ?
Ok Bill, thanks for that very revealing link.

[Doug Sandlin]

04:58 PM on 02/01/2011

There's a lot of opinion floating around about Egypt and Muslims, from those, rather ironically, who are neither Egyptian, nor Muslim.

If we could ask an actual Egyptian about the situation, I wonder what his or her perspective might be, vis a vis religion, and the current shift in government?

Here's one Egyptian's overview ..... delivered at 0:45 in the video.

Succinct, clear and seemingly quite sincere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55UwgdUkERg

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

05:04 PM on 02/01/2011

Or you could ask a recognized expert who has spent his life studying the region--Dr. Pipes.

[Blodo]

11:35 PM on 01/31/2011

The bottom line is that you cannot defend democracy by supporting dictators. Revolutions are always gambles. There is no guarantee what will come out of them. All anyone can do is stay true to democratic principles and try to promote them. Ultimately, each country must find its own path to freedom.

[glockman]

06:23 PM on 02/01/2011

"The bottom line is that you cannot defend democracy by supporting dictators."

Nor can you do so by supporting religion in politics.

[Doug Sandlin]

10:30 PM on 01/31/2011

"The fact is that democracy cannot take root in large parts of the Middle East without the participation of religious factions who are willing to put down their weapons and pick up ballots instead.

That is precisely what the Muslim Brotherhood has done over the last few decades, as it has diligently transformed itself into a legitimate political party and a force for democratic change in Egypt.

In 2006, when members of the Brotherhood were first given the opportunity to run for elected office, they proved themselves perfectly capable of responsible governance. Far from trying to transform Egypt into a theocracy, as Arab rulers and western ideologues predicted they would, the Brotherhood fully embraced the principles of democracy by creating political alliances with liberal intellectuals and secular democrats in the Egyptian to lobby for greater political freedoms, including freedom of religion, assembly and speech.

Their actions convinced even their staunchest critics that, given the opportunity, they could become a legitimate political force in Egyptian politics, which is why Mubarak turned so violently against them, rounding up their democratically elected members, jailing, torturing and murdering them inside his dank, sadistic prison cells."

From the Full Washington Post piece by Reza Aslan, in case anyone missed it.

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/reza_aslan/2011/01/religion_politics_and_american_hypocrisy_on_egypt.html?hpid=talkbox1

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

08:42 AM on 02/01/2011

Remember the fable of the turtle and the scorpion, Doug.

For Islamists, democracy is like a train--when you come to your destination, you get off. So says Recep Erdoğan.

[Doug Sandlin]

05:10 PM on 02/01/2011

I don't know all that much about the Muslim Brotherhood, other than that the "demonized" version seems slightly at odds -- at least slightly -- with facts, per the update above.

Do I think that makes them "just another democratically-oriented political party"? --- certainly not.

Just because a group has proven that it can work within a democratic or parliamentary system doesn't mean it is either inherently democratic or parliamentary.

I just found that update to be pertinent to offer as an alternate point of view, not because I believe it wholesale ... but because I feel that providing alternate viewpoints, sometimes simply because they are alternate, can be useful to the overall discussion.

That's all.

[Mr Sandbox]

10:03 PM on 01/31/2011

I suppose Eqypt is stuck with the Muslim Brotherhood. However, we in the USA need to make sure that no MB members or their sympathizers are allowed into our country.

[CarmenCameron]

11:26 PM on 01/31/2011

Right. They wouldn't be able to hold their own against our own homegrown religiously-rooted politicians, anyway! lol

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

09:09 PM on 01/31/2011

After the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate, two intelligent and capable Muslims set out to build a future for the leaderless Muslims of the former empire.

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk decided that what was needed was to separate Islam from political power completely; to create a secular form of Islam. Hassan al Banna decided to go the opposite direction and rebuild the Caliphate from Egypt through an Islamist organization, the Muslim Brotherhood.

The entire reason for the existence of the Muslim Brotherhood since 1928 has been to create an Islamic state wherever Muslims live. They use any tactic that serves that goal--sometimes violent, sometimes not--but the goal never changes: Political power to enforce Sharia law.

"The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ... ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state".[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

The inescapable conflict between Islamism and liberal democracy is in the fundamental nature of Sharia law. The highest legal authority in Sharia law is the interpreted will of Allah, the highest authority in a liberal democracy is the expressed will of the governed. Only one can be supreme. The two legal systems are mutually exclusive because they are expressions of two mutually exclusive prime principles.

Egyptian Muslims may now choose Islamism.

We must guarantee that American Islamists never have that choice here.

I wonder if Mr. Aslan would agree.

[CarmenCameron]

11:29 PM on 01/31/2011

I hear the pope thinks democracy isn't all that compatible with Catholicism, either.

Wanna' ban all the Catholic political action groups here in the USA while you're at it?

(Or the Jewish ones, too, for that matter?)

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

07:55 AM on 02/01/2011

Wanna' ban all the Catholic political action groups here in the USA while you're at it?

=============

That's what you got from my post? Why?

I am unaware of political action groups in the Catholic, Protestant or Jewish communities that are similar to the Muslim Brotherhood. All religions have segments that propose a weaker separation between religion and state. I am aware of none but the Brotherhood that aspires to be a political party with religious dogma as its political platform, as the Refah Party was in Turkey.

To describe the Republican Party as the equivalent of the MB is inapt in the extreme.

As dangerous to secular government as Reconstructionism and Dominionism and Christian Nation elements of Christianity are in America, they are not yet on the level of political ambition and success as the MB and other Islamist elements are in Islamic countries.

The only reason that is true is that we Americans value our secular government and are willing to fight off any threat to it. That is what I propose.

For any advocate of secular government to deflect criticism of Islamism by pointing the finger of guilt at Christian theocrats is to miss the main point—they both must be resisted if we want to keep the America we have.

[Bill Sampson]

03:08 PM on 02/01/2011

And?

[tallen]

08:22 PM on 01/31/2011

Interestin­g background facts from a December Pew poll

20% of Egyptians support Al Qaeda. Larger percentage­s support other terrorist organizati­ons.
95% think that religion should have larger roll in government
75% of Egyptians think that Sharia punishment­s such as stoning to death for blasphemy should be imposed
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

That's not very encouragin­g for those hoping a free secular democracy will emerge.

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

09:02 AM on 02/01/2011

More polling from the Council on Foreign Relations on the subject:


"In a 2007 University of Maryland poll (PDF), more than 60 percent of the populations in Egypt,
Morocco, Pakistan, and Indonesia responded that democracy was a good way to govern their respective countries, while at the same time, an average of 71 percent agreed with requiring "strict application of [sharia] law in every Islamic country."

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8034/islam.html

The Muslim majority nations that try to combine democracy and Sharia--Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia and Pakistan--are rapidly heading toward phony democracy. Phony because elected theocrats (Iran) are still theocrats.

Iraq is still in the undecided column.

Combining Sharia and democracy is like being just a little bit pregnant.

[Doug Sandlin]

04:37 PM on 02/01/2011

What *is* Sharia, exactly?

[HANNAH TYLER]

04:53 PM on 02/01/2011

??? Bad analogy.

This poll is a positive thing because it shows that ACTUAL Muslims view their religion as being compatible democracy. That you misunderstand their beliefs and therefore their intentions is your problem.

[Doug Sandlin]

05:32 PM on 02/01/2011

I would suggest that in Egypt, even polls from last week are outdated.

Check out the comments of the gentleman at 0:45 in the video linked below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55UwgdUkERg

[Doug Sandlin]

09:59 PM on 01/31/2011

Any links for these assertions about Aslan?

I've read a lot of his writings in recent times, and have never seen him say any of these things.

[Manny Peddy]

12:07 PM on 02/01/2011

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/10/reza-aslan-running-interference-for-the-islamic-republic-of-iran.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129381552

[The Knocker]

03:51 AM on 02/01/2011

Manny this absolutely false. Why if HP moderator allowing you to constantly making false and vitriol attack against Muslims. You are constantly creating a toxic atmosphere between people of different religious faith

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

08:13 AM on 02/01/2011

Again--the appeal to censorship.

Can't you argue your points without the help of outside authority?

Why is your assertion any more believable than Manny's?

Your honorable options are to argue or remain silent. Choose.

[Manny Peddy]

12:08 PM on 02/01/2011

What is false exactly? Are you familiar with the Advisory Board of the National Iranian Council (NIAC)? Aslan is a member. What do you think they stand for and promote, exactly?

And what part of this NPR commentary is unclear to you?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129381552

[New York Artist]

08:02 PM on 01/31/2011

Israel is becoming a nation. http://nopolicestate.blogspot.com/2011/01/egypt_29.html