Casualties Of Debt: NYU Students, Andrew Jenks Rally Against Student Loan Debt

A small but dedicated group of New York University students, graduates and their supporters came out to take a stance against student debt in an event called Casualties of Debt on Wednesday.

The demonstration, which was hosted by MTV's Andrew Jenks and NYU Local editor-in-chief Charlie Eisenhood, was designed to raise awareness for the debt crisis at NYU, where students owe a collective $659 million -- an average of $35,000 each upon graduation, which is around $11,000 higher than the national average.

After a number of people had gathered, Jenks instructed students to write the amount of debt they will have accrued once they leave NYU on white T-shirts with red dollar signs distributed by volunteers and stand still for a moment. "The point is to show that young people care," Jenks said. "People say that we don't give a shit, and it's an easy out. And so this is a starting step for all of us to try to make a difference. Call it cheesy, call it hokey, call it inane, call it silly, call it whatever you want, but we care and that's a starting point for me."

Sporting their shirts and blank-faced masks, the students stood for a moment of silence in an area bound by two American flags.

Though the problem of excessive debt is especially relevant at NYU, Jenks says that the issue is widespread -- and that he hopes the NYU protest will serve as a prototype for schools nationwide.

"It's not just about NYU. It's about the college system in the U.S., and how you can make it better," said Jenks. He added, "Obama said that higher education is the pathway to success. If a good education is a prerequisite for success, [that means] a prerequisite for success is a $24,000 loan."

For the freshman and sophomores in attendance, the payment date remains far enough in the future to still feel theoretical -- but the effects of the stress are real. Sophomores Andrew Olshevski and Susu Harmache both said they feel guilty for putting such a heavy financial burden on their families, and freshman Annie Utley said that the high tuition had a "definitely put a strain" on her relationship with her father, who works weekends to help defray the immense cost of her education.

And for older students, that looming debt is starting to feel real. Junior Bridget Moschetti said that her debt will be $220,000 upon graduation, not factoring in commuting costs. When asked what she hoped would come of the demonstration, Moschetti said she would like for tuition would go down -- "but it's not going to happen." And when asked to describe a best-case scenario, she said that NYU's good name would propel her into a career lucrative enough to pay off the massive debt.

Kristina Ensminger had similar hopes when she enrolled at NYU's journalism school, but was disappointed when the prestigious degree failed to deliver. "I knew that I would be in debt, but I guess I thought the earning potential would be greater," she said.

Ensminger earned her bachelor's degree from UC-Santa Barbara, where she also graduated with debt -- but only 1/3 of what she accrued at NYU. This discrepancy begs the question of agency in students' decisions of where to enroll. Debt is certainly a pervasive problem, but NYU's tuition is notoriously high, and students who choose to attend should have this in mind.

When asked whether or not he thought students must claim some responsibility for the financial consequences of their choices, Eisenhood countered with some questions of his own: "Can you make what amounts to a massive financial decision at 18? Do you have all of the information?" According to him, the answer is no. "The government and universities don't do enough [to inform students]...people know, but it's still not fair... a conversation needs to start here," he said.

And students hope that their presence at the demonstration will help get that conversation started. As freshman Angela Almeida said, "It's cumulative. Maybe 100 people are here now, but in six months, maybe it'll be 200."

Are you in debt? Share your story in the comments section below.

Comments

[Dana1982]

02:17 PM on 02/28/2011

This is the reason why education needs to be fully funded. No student should have to go to school to get a better education then end up a slave to debt. Education is an investment in our young and their knowledge is the building blocks of our future. We need to make the investment to see that our children go to school, get a good education, and be productive in their adult years. It's either that or we pay more for them with unemployment, health care, and welfare.

[Roy Robson]

10:44 PM on 02/18/2011

First I would like to thank all taxpayers.. My son graduated from a state University with a 4 year degree and 1 student loan... He joined the National Guard completed basic and AIT, qualified for the GI bill, enrolled in ROTC at a military school received his commison, and finished his last 2 years last May... He is obligated to 8 years of military service but to him it was worth it to pay his own way.....

[Michael Morrison]

02:25 AM on 02/19/2011

Congrats to your son.

That's the way I did it...that's the way my pappy did it...

[Michael Morrison]

05:39 PM on 02/18/2011

Just because you are accepted at an institution doesn't mean that you can afford to go to school there.

Most HS grads are admitted to most of the institutions to which they apply. The real enabler, however, is the financial aid package.

[littleraerae]

02:42 PM on 02/18/2011

I do feel that college tuition costs do not correlate at all with potential earning wages. HOWEVER, when you choose a prestigious school like NYU, you take the risk of paying more for a better chance in the work force. But that's still a chance, not a given.

Go in-state! Your own state favors you more, anyway.

[Muhammad Sheikh]

12:04 PM on 02/18/2011

As a college student myself, I understand partially.

But anyone who decided to go to NYU would know from the beginning the immense costs associated with that decision. On top of the high cost of tuition and boarding, it's also one of the most expensive cities in the country.

If a movement were to start against college costs in general, it's doubtful it'd start there.

[cortneymun]

02:17 PM on 02/18/2011

point taken.

HOWEVER. it is essential that you consider who we're talking about here. in many cases, the students who are suffering in this new debt crisis are from middle class families. they are intelligent young people - if we're talking about NYU or any other private university...while it may not be "the best of the best," the admissions process is competitive. most importantly, though, these are KIDS. i say this with no condescension; only to emphasize the lack of 'real-world' experience among these ~18 year-old teenagers - who are at the beginning of their adult lives.

these young people have grown up with college as their main objective - and most "high-achieving" high schoolers (and the adults around them) would never question that objective. when they get in to their dream schools & sign on the dotted lines, students trust that they are being given sound financial advice by the organization that's being paid to educate them.

i don't know what the answer is...certainly, there is no simple solution.

i think that we need to start by acknowledging that this is irrefutable evidence that there is a problem in the structure of higher education. in order to move forward, Americans need to look very honestly at how we would answer this question:
is education a right or a privilege?

[Michael Morrison]

02:26 AM on 02/19/2011

Courtney:

I disagree. There is no irrefutable evidence that there is a problem in the structure of higher education.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. But the evidence certainly isn't irrefutable.

[Blackageddon]

07:30 PM on 02/20/2011

Yes and no. As an NYU student, I can say I wasn't aware of just how expensive the city was until I got here. Often it's small stuff, like the complete lack of a dollar menu, but if you're looking to live off-campus you better plan on skimping on occasion, especially the tighter your budget may be.

NYU, though, is way too expensive. Stern and Tisch (I myself am in the the Film/TV dept.) are widely considered among NYU students to be the only two schools that *might* be actualy worth it, considering their reputation. And then there's the reality of the climbing tuition, which adds thousands of dollars to your four-year education every year.

I would have transferred second term if I felt I wasn't leaving such a huge opportunity behind.

[Muhammad Sheikh]

07:49 PM on 02/20/2011

Maybe you're right. I am kinda biased. I'm from NJ so I probably have a better idea of NYC's expenses than the average student. I just figured from all the media and movies and general hype would make that point.

But the thing is I kind of assume when you make the decision to go to NYU, you pretty much know it's much more expensive than that in-state public college/university. And NYU students are usually very competitive.

I hope it does pay off for you though.

[Dawn Naylor]

11:25 AM on 02/18/2011

the poor chick with $220,000 had better get a really really really good job her loan payment will be like $1600 a month or more...just to pay that she needs $9.50 an hour...rent, food, transportation costs, health, clothes, emergencies...one misstep, accident, health crisis, death in the family, layoff and her total could be $750,000. in no time.

ours was $17,000, now over $66,000 always federal. Since 1985 and only 2% of everything we have paid in had gone to principle.

it has taught me to fear the phone and my government...and what we fear, WE DESPISE.

[Michael Morrison]

06:02 PM on 02/18/2011

Dawn:

I'm a bit confused by your comment. If I read this correctly, you had a $17,000 Guaranteed Student Loan in 1985, and after 26 years, you now owe $66,000.

Is that correct? If so, what happened?

[Dawn Naylor]

09:31 AM on 02/19/2011

my spousesloan-a lay off early in our marriage.

we had a personal loan and a visa card in addition to the student loan. we paid the other two-student loan was sent to collectors that were abusive to the point of scaring the crap out of me-no one ever said 'deferment or forbearance' but they did demand large sums of money we did not have, told me to go prostitute myself to get them money-ask our families (not an option)-who were we going to ask for advice? we had no money for a lawyer.

one can only take so much abuse and one can not get blood from a stone-10 yrs of tax refunds taken later-we heard from a lawyer about 1997 the loans were over $25,000 by then and he demanded $2000 and would not be negotiated with i begged him to take $200, we couldn't afford that, but want to start taking down the mountain.-we have never forgotten the loans, they have caused me to lose sleep for years-i feel each penny daily-he made threats that made me call a lawyer in a panic.

first normal voice we heard was in 2002 from DIRECT LOANS-they 'promised' once we signed we could negotiate excessive fines, fees and 8% interest rate.

they capitalized everything and added .25%. so every fine, fee and penalty is not principle. so we pay what we can. we just have to take it.

[Dawn Naylor]

09:33 AM on 02/19/2011

bottom line should read is "now principle"...not not...no edit.

[Lyndsey Purchon]

11:19 AM on 02/18/2011

And for additionally, for the record, between 2002 - 2007, NYU and Citi bank had an agreement by which, for every tuition loan NYU funneled into Citi, Citi would give NYU a percentage kickback. They would also send financial aid officers to exotic locales for "conferences" and paid all of NYU financial aids printing costs for the privilege of have their loan forms included in newly accepted students financial "aid" package. What motivation did NYU then have to give out their own money when it is a well known fact that it is a 60% tuition driven school with a small endowment compared to the Ivys? None. In fact, they benefited significantly from offering students loans instead of real aid. The attorney general called them out on it in 2007 and they agreed to stop doing it while denying any wrong-doing, but for those already in huge amount of debt, there was no way out. The point is that the entire system is wrong, not just NYU, but NYU does have the honor of being the school with the most outstanding student debt in the country.

[Lyndsey Purchon]

11:22 AM on 02/18/2011

* Additionally. Can't edit once its posted :(

[Lisa Breslin]

10:21 AM on 02/18/2011

It's a never ending cycle. States cut funding, college tuition rises, and the lenders get greedier. College bound students can't get a break with the politicians that are bought by these lending giants, which strip any rights on behalf of the students.

How dare anyone smugly lecture students on responsible lending when there are no laws protecting the borrower as there are with basic consumer credit lines. Why can you bankrupt your debt through credit cards, home foreclosure or gambling debts, and still be eligible for bankruptcy again in 7 years?

Education is the biggest SCAM now in America with just a money making machine backing our education system.

[Dawn Naylor]

11:28 AM on 02/18/2011

speaking of greedy
colleges own a whole hella pile of this...they are paying themselves with your future.
state of the art student unions, dorms nicer than some peoples apartments...
these are college students.

[Lyndsey Purchon]

09:53 AM on 02/18/2011

For everyone who says "no one forced you, it was your choice, too damn bad" I don't know if you remember what it felt like at the end of high school. Every day, people were asking "where did you apply", "where did you get in" etc. The conversations about college focused on "what school is right for you", and at NO point was the cost discussed, or the earning potential of different fields brought up. It was just "follow your dream"!
I got accepted to NYU and was horrified by the financial "aid" package (it was mostly loans), but I was told that it would get better after the first year. They said my aid would go up as long as I did well.
WE WERE LIED TO. As I continued to get excellent marks, we get this little apologetic note from John Sexton about how tuition is going up. Did my aid go up? NO. It was the loans that went up. After the end of the second year, there was a big question about whether or not to stay, but at this point in the program, transferring was going to be tricky and would have tacked on an additional year to my schooling, and dropping out and still having to pay for the loans without a degree was an even worse option.
170,000 in loans later, my financial life is in total ruins. Going to NYU was the biggest mistake I have ever made in my life.

[EliSpark]

12:42 PM on 02/18/2011

I'm sorry that you went through that. Thanks for sharing.

[Michael Morrison]

05:47 PM on 02/20/2011

Lyndsey:

I am somewhat sympathetic to your plight, and I have known many young people who have made the same mistake. As a society, we should probably make it harder for young people to do this to themselves.

That said, as for cost...The contracts you signed were all discussions of cost. You should have read them.

As for the earnings potentials of different fields...That information is on-line at about a million places.

As for being lied to...You probably were, and those who lied to you bear much of the blame for your plight. But you bear some blame, too, for following your dream rather than taking ownership for your life.

BTW: NYU tuition is 27,000 per year...After 2 years, you should have owed no more than $54,000 plus living expenses. Where the the rest of the money go?

[Lyndsey Purchon]

09:33 AM on 03/02/2011

Tuition is only the beginning when it comes to university. The price tag does not included registration fees, housing costs, food, books, etc. University housing is 10k - 15k/year. Even if you find housing off campus (which I did), you are looking at least 800/month. To be clear, I stayed all 4 years and graduated with honors.

I did read all the documents, including the promissory note, however, I can tell you honestly that I did not understand them. I can take responsibility for that in some ways, but not in others. I had always been good with money, having held jobs and saved up good amounts of money throughout highschool, and the lack of consumer protections, such as bankruptcy, and the severity of the penalties that would be inflicted on my mother should I ever fail to pay were totally unknown to me and my family.

We did not take the decision to take on loans lightly. There were big discussions and fights and we did everything we could to try and get NYU to give us more aid. We had qualified for Pell grants, but we were told that taking out loans was the only way that I would be able to attend NYU and that everybody did it. We figured with an NYU education I would get ahead and be able to pay it back easily. We were terribly wrong and naive, but it's too late now.

[Michael Morrison]

12:38 AM on 02/18/2011

Evidently, somebody forced these hapless students to attend NYU and incur crippling debt.

I don't buy it.

[Dawn Naylor]

11:34 AM on 02/18/2011

it is not just the debt it is the inability to negotiate.
there is no threat of bankruptcy so they tack on whatever they want and you have to live with it AND PAY INTEREST.

now read this carefully before you respond...just because we whine about lack of consumer protection does not mean we all want to 'get out of paying our debt'. we want to right to sue if scammed or if bill collectors add on erroneous charges or if lawyers tack on egregious fines...

as the law stands now we can be fined if we try to address this in court.

[Michael Morrison]

01:31 PM on 02/18/2011

Dawn:

As for the unethical practices of student loan and credit card companies...

I couldn't agree with you more.

At my University, I see many students who eat-out every night, drive really cool cars, and always have really nice clothes. These are almost always the same students who, by their Junior year, are griping about their massive student debt.

[MMRDO]

11:37 PM on 02/17/2011

Go to SUNY Maritime, the regiment is annoying, but you can land a six figure job easily. Or you can enlist in the guard or reserves for the student benefits, if you don't like the price, go somewhere else.

[DanSc]

08:00 PM on 02/17/2011

NYU has AMAZING need-based aid. If you actually can't afford to go there, they'll cover for you. The protesters are probably pissed that they have to dip into their trust funds while the low-income students get to go for free. Those poor people get all the breaks after all.

[Dawn Naylor]

11:35 AM on 02/18/2011

wrong.

[DanSc]

12:10 PM on 02/18/2011

Except that I'm not

[Shiv]

06:48 PM on 02/17/2011

We want free stuff!

We want free stuff!

Everybody now! We want free stuff!

[Dawn Naylor]

11:38 AM on 02/18/2011

we are banks of america. citigroup. aig. jp morgan. wells fargo. general motors. goldman sacks. morgan stanley. bank of new york...and we want free stuff.

[thecommonraven]

03:02 PM on 02/17/2011

While I understand that college debt is crippling, i fail to understand why these students didn't simply go to another University.

NYU is my dream school, and I was accepted but the financial aid offer was a joke. My single parent, high school teacher mother and I were expected to come up with more than half the cost of tuition, something like 27,000 dollars a year. As much as I wanted NYU, I couldn't justify taking out nearly 120,000 in loans over 4 years, so I went to another school.

And even with going to a cheaper school, I'm still nearly 30,000 in debt.

[Dawn Naylor]

11:44 AM on 02/18/2011

not everybody understands how deadly this type of debt is and there is the "you will more than earn enough to pay it back when you graduate!"

if you had gambling debt, you could negotiate. if you had stolen that amount of money you would serve your sentence and be done and even if fined if they amount became usurious you are allowed to go back to court and appeal.

people have got to stop say 'well they shoulda known better' so shoulda the people who bought houses they could not afford...but they are not in toxic debt for the rest of their lives.

[Michael Morrison]

02:30 AM on 02/19/2011

thecommonraven:

You made the right choice. I'm not sure why so many people are obsessed with NYU. West of the Mississippi, the few folks who have ever heard of it think it's a glorified city college.

It sure as heck isn't worth $27K per year.

[PeterMelzer]

03:02 PM on 02/17/2011

Public schools deliver most bang for the buck.

Read more here:
http://brainmindinst.blogspot.com/2010/07/value-of-education-economically.html