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Wisconsin Union Bill Passes State Assembly

Wisconsin Union Bill

AP/The Huffington Post   First Posted: 03/10/11 05:31 PM ET Updated: 05/25/11 07:35 PM ET

MADISON, Wis. -- Wisconsin lawmakers voted Thursday to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from the state's public workers, ending a heated standoff over labor rights and delivering a key victory to Republicans who have targeted unions in efforts to slash government spending nationwide.

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The state's Assembly passed Gov. Scott Walker's explosive proposal 53-42 without any Democratic support and four no votes from the GOP. Protesters in the gallery erupted into screams of "Shame! Shame! Shame!" as Republican lawmakers filed out of the chamber and into the speaker's office.

The state's Senate used a procedural move to bypass missing Democrats and move the measure forward Wednesday night, meaning the plan that delivers one of the strongest blows to union power in years now requires only Walker's signature to take effect.

He says he'll sign the measure, which he introduced to plug a $137 million budget shortfall, as quickly as possible - which could be as early as Thursday.

"We were willing to talk, we were willing to work, but in the end at some point the public wants us to move forward," Walker said before the Assembly's vote.

Walker's plan has touched off a national debate over labor rights for public employees and its implementation would be a key victory for Republicans, many of whom have targeted unions amid efforts to slash government spending. Similar bargaining restrictions are making their way through Ohio's Legislature and several other states are debating measures to curb union rights in smaller doses.

In Wisconsin, the proposal has drawn tens of thousands of protesters to the state Capitol for weeks of demonstrations and led 14 Senate Democrats to flee to Illinois to prevent that chamber from having enough members present to pass a plan containing spending provisions.

But a special committee of lawmakers from the Senate and Assembly voted Wednesday to take all spending measures out of the legislation and the full Senate approved it minutes later, setting up Thursday's vote in the Assembly.

Walker has repeatedly argued that collective bargaining is a budget issue, because his proposed changes would give local governments the flexibility to confront the budget cuts needed to close the state's $3.6 billion deficit. He has said without the changes, he may have needed to lay off 1,500 state workers and make other cuts to balance the budget.

The measure forbids most government workers from collectively bargaining for wage increases beyond the rate of inflation unless approved by referendum. It also requires public workers to pay more toward their pensions and double their health insurance contribution, a combination equivalent to an 8 percent pay cut for the average worker.

Police and firefighters are exempt.

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Wisconsin Republican Gov. Scott Walker's bill to end collective bargaining for public employees passed the state senate on Wednesday. In reaction, Wisconsin high school students are planning a nationwide walkout in order to send a unified message in support of public education.

A Facebook event labeled Nationwide Student Walkout already has more than 5,000 people "attending." The group asks for the nationwide walkout to happen this Friday, March 11, 2011 at 2:00 p.m. local time.

Read more here.

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AP reports:

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker says he is certain support will grow for the new law that eliminates nearly all collective bargaining rights for public employees.

The governor signed the measure Friday. In an interview with The Associated Press, he said he has "no doubt" that support will build as the government becomes more efficient. He said public employees would still have civil-service protections.

Walker spoke about the law even as dozens of protesters shouted outside his Capitol office in opposition to it. The proposal passed the state senate and Assembly earlier this week.

More here.

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HuffPost's Sam Stein reports:

Less than two days after Wisconsin Senate Republicans took to seedy if not crafty parliamentary maneuvers to pass an anti-collective bargaining bill, the Democratic party is up with ads targeting individual members.

The Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee released an ad on Friday attacking Sen. Luther Olsen (R-Wis.) for being a doormat in Gov. Scott Walker’s effort to get his budget-related measure passed into law.

“We expect pins to get bowled over,†the spot goes. “Pies to get rolled. But we certainly don’t expect our senators to get flattened. Last month, Senator Olsen said eliminating collective bargaining is, quote, ‘pretty radical.’

Read the rest here.

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HuffPost's Amanda Terkel reports:

Far away from the large protests at the Wisconsin statehouse, a group of about 60 people -- students, teachers, nurses and others -- met at 6:00 a.m. at Riverside High School in Milwaukee on Friday morning, the first step in their march all the way to Madison (approximately 80 miles).

The walk will take three days, ending at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday in Madison. Today, the group is walking about 12 or 13 hours. Tomorrow will be eight hours, and Sunday will be six hours. While some people are going to be making the full trek, others will be joining and leaving along the way.

The Huffington Post spoke with Christopher Fons, a public school teacher who came up with the idea for the march, at noon CT. Fons is part of the group People Organizing Wisconsin for Education and Workers Rights (POWER). They had already walked approximately 20 miles and were excited that it was a "balmy" 35 degrees.

Fons first conceived of the march about a week ago, when he was teaching his U.S. history class about Cesar Chavez and the National Farm Workers Association. In 1965, Chavez organized a historic farmworkers march from Delano, Calif. to Sacramento -- 340 miles.

"It's about the journey," said Fons. "There's been a lot of large demonstrations in Capitol, but we just thought we should try to dramatize this in a different way. I'm in complete support of the large rallies, but I just think we need to be doing other strategies to raise consciousness."

A few stands have popped up along the march route providing coffee and other refreshments, which have, according to Fons, really helped the morale of the participants. But when The Huffington Post spoke with Fons, they were in Waukesha County, a more Republican area where he said the reception had not always been quite as friendly.

"The message is about not allowing collective bargaining to be ended and about defending public education in the state -- to try to defend this idea that we have the Wisconsin idea," said Fons. "The Wisconsin idea is an egalitarian society that has education at its center, for everybody."

Since the beginning of the controversy, teachers have been an integral part of the protests against Gov. Scott Walker's (R) budget repair bill, with many public schools shut down for days because so many teachers have gone to Madison to protest.

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The Washington Post reports:

Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), a former businessman and now a freshman senator, held a conference call Thursday afternoon with a small group of bloggers. For a freshman, he's entirely fluid on the issues and easily navigates between specifics and larger themes.

I asked him about Wisconsin. Why did Gov. Scott Walker take so long to pull out the "fiscal" elements and pass the legislation without a quorum? Johnson first made clear that he and the governor believe this "is not about individual workers . . . but about rebalancing the equation" so that the taxpayers' interests are being protected. As for the long-in-coming resolution, Johnson explained that the governor wanted the collective bargaining provision and the rest of the cost-cutting measures "tied" because they were all part of the effort to close the state's budget deficit. But it became evident the Democrats weren't budging. He said that one Democratic senator even requested an absentee ballot for the spring election. At that point Walker moved forward on the bill.

Read more here.

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William Alden:

MILWAUKEE -- Rev. Jesse Jackson spoke to a crowd of demonstrators in Milwaukee Thursday evening, laying out a strategy to oppose the anti-union rights legislation that state lawmakers passed hours earlier.

He focused on the upcoming State Supreme Court election, urging voters to choose a justice who would protect workers’ rights to collectively bargain. Speaking to a crowd that included teachers and public school students, Jackson said Milwaukee has become as important a battleground as Madison.

“All eyes are on Milwaukee,†he said from the steps of Milwaukee County Courthouse, as the crowd cheered. “The cameras are in Madison, the votes are in Milwaukee.â€

The election on April 5 could swing the ideological leaning of the seven-justice State Supreme Court. Justice David Prosser, one of the four-justice unofficial conservative majority, sees his term expire this year. His opponent, Assistant State Attorney General JoAnne Kloppenburg, would likely break that majority. If a legal challenge to the new legislation arrives before the Supreme Court, that shift of power could be crucial.

“We’re gonna see the same crowds in Milwaukee that we see in Madison,†declared Rev. Willie Brisco, president of Milwaukee Innercity Congregations Allied for Hope, which sponsored the rally. “This is just the beginning.â€

Jackson, a longtime advocate for worker’s rights, had been in Madison earlier that day. He arrived at the Courthouse in Milwaukee two hours after the rally began, wearing a black hat and overcoat, while the crowd chanted, “Jesse, Jesse!†After climbing the courthouse steps and taking the microphone, he compared the current political struggle to the demonstrations that preceded the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

“This is what democracy looks like,†he said.

Jackson spoke in support of teachers, who would lose collective bargaining rights if the bill is ratified. The teachers -- and students -- in the audience roared their appreciation.

One student, Carlo Goodger, a 12-year-old 7th grader in the Milwaukee Public School system, had addressed the crowd minutes before Jackson arrived.

“We’re proud to be from MPS,†Goodger said, as demonstrators exploded into cheers. “We don’t like what Scott Walker is doing to us.â€

If the bill becomes law, class sizes could expand. Teachers could face wage cuts or layoffs.

Goodger, whose mother is a teacher at his school, and whose mother’s parents were also teachers, granted HuffPost an interview after his speech.

“Not only do I know how it will feel for my mom, but I know how it will feel for me, also,†he said. “I’m gonna make a change as much as I can.â€

“I grew up a Milwaukee public student, and I’m gonna die a Milwaukee public student.â€

His mother, Lucia Medico, 35, who teaches special education, said the teacher’s union, Milwaukee Teachers’ Education Association, has encouraged members to be “more passive†in their response to the bill, and to “wait it out.â€

“But we as teachers want to make an impact,†she said. “Waiting it out has brought this.â€

Teachers at the rally said they hoped to bring the energy of Madison to Milwaukee, and to encourage more people to support their cause. But they found themselves in the awkward position of not wanting to stick their necks out too far, for fear that they could face consequences, especially if they lose union rights. Tricia Ward, 35, who teaches special education, requested that the name of her school be withheld.

“That’s how scared everyone is,†she said. “When this collective bargaining ends, they can do whatever they want.â€

WATCH Rev. Jackson's speech below (credit to Dr. Todd Alan Price, of National-Louis University):

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The Daily Caller reports on Jesse Jackson's statements on the Wisconsin anti-union bill's passage:

“More health care for more Americans is not as hurtful as less education and less health care and fewer jobs,†Jackson said. “Maybe what you see here is the rise of hurt and people are acting out their democratic rights and sharing their pain. And they want to be heard and I feel that when they’re steamrolled as they were in the Assembly and as they are in the Senate, people are going to fight back against the governor hears them and engages in democracy and not ramrod democracy. It simply will not work whether Cairo or Madison, it will not work.â€

Jackson said pro-union legislators were denied the ability to vote on the issue and forecasted a “rebellion†to come within the next month.

Full story here.

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Wisconsin Democratic Party Chair Mike Tate has issued the following statement on the anti-union bill's passage:

"It is a shameful day for Wisconsin. Ultimately, our working families will have their day and Scott Walker's victory will ring as hollow as his pledges to their well-being. Today, the Koch Brothers can pop some champagne. But know that our total focus now is on recall."

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The Wisconsin State Capitol will close at 6 p.m. CST today, WKOW.com reported on Twitter.

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Wisconsin municipalities are already mounting legal challenges against the controversial anti-union bill that passed first in the state Senate and now in the Assembly.

Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz asserted on his blog that the bill's passage violates the state's open meetings law and has engaged City Attorney Mike May:

I've asked Mike to join any action he deems appropriate in the courts this morning to reverse the Senate's illegal action.

To quote Mike's email to alders and I this morning:

"The Office of the City Attorney (in compliance with State law) insists on 24 hours notice for any meeting, or adding any matter to an agenda, unless there is no way that 24 hours notice could have been given. Mere convenience or inadvertence is insufficient to meet the less than 24-hour notice. This is necessary to be in compliance with the Open Meetings Law. It is an essential element of government in Wisconsin.

"Today's action does not meet that test. It does not comply with Wisconsin Law.

"The action taken today will be struck down if challenged in court."

Meanwhile, Dane County has also begun taking action, reports Madison's WKOW.com:

Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk and County Board Chair Scott McDonell have directed Dane County attorneys to pursue legal action related to state Senate Republicans passing the budget repair bill without Democrats present.

More here.

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HuffPost's Amanda Terkel reports:

Dealt a major setback Wednesday night in a high-stakes battle over union rights in Wisconsin, labor leaders nevertheless insisted that they would emerge from the three-week long saga energized and eager to continue fighting.

Hours after Gov. Scott Walker (R-Wis.) and his Republican allies in the state Senate took nearly everyone by surprise and pushed through a stand-alone bill stripping public employees of their collective bargaining rights, labor officials pledged to ramp up efforts to recall Republicans and challenge the legislation in court.

Only shortly before the vote took place, local news outlets reported that Republicans were splitting Walker's budget repair bill into two. While the Senate requires a quorum of 3/5 of its members to vote on fiscal statutes, just a majority is needed for other matters. Therefore, Senate Republicans broke off the most controversial portions -- including a proposal to strip away the collective bargaining rights of public employees -- into a separate piece of legislation that could be passed without Senate Democrats, who were still out of state.

Read more here.

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The LA Times reports that Freshman Representative Sean Duffy, who has largely kept his distance from the controversy over Walker's anti-union bill, will appear with the Wisconsin governor this weekend:

Duffy's spokesman, Daniel Son, confirmed Thursday that the congressman would attend the Lincoln Day Dinner at the invitation of the Ashland County Republican Party, and Ashland's Daily Press reports that Walker is also slated to attend the event.

"That's quite a coup to have the governor and congressman come up to northern Wisconsin and talk to people," Frank Kostka, chairman of the Bayfield County GOP, told the Daily Press. "We'd be even more excited if we didn't have this controversy to deal with."

Read the full story here.

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HuffPost's Mark Blumenthal reports:

The poll released this past weekend by a conservative Wisconsin think tank did more than indicate a preference for compromise among Wisconsin adults. It also includes evidence that the enthusiasm gap favoring Republicans in Wisconsin in 2010 has vanished.

The survey of 603 adults, conducted by the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute (WPRI) between Feb. 27 and March 1, included a question asking respondents whether they are likely to vote in the 2012 elections. Poll respondents typically overstate their true voting intentions on these sorts of questions, and the WPRI survey is no exception: Nearly four out of five respondents (79 percent) said they are "almost certain to vote," while another 8 percent said they will "probably vote," even though the actual turnout among eligible adults in 2008 was 72.1 percent. Nevertheless, these responses provide a crude indicator of intentions, as those who say they intend to vote are more likely to turn out.

Read the rest here.

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HuffPost's Sam Stein reports:

The chaos that accompanied Wednesday night’s abrupt passage of Gov. Scott Walker's (R-Wis.) controversial anti-collective bargaining legislation gave way on Thursday to a series of strategy sessions by aggrieved parties plotting out a response.

A cadre of labor groups, progressive institutions, and campaign arms began informally coordinating a comprehensive pushback that some described as even more critical than the legislative battle itself. The most dramatic of these moves is acceleration of a campaign to recall Wisconsin Republican state senators who ended up backing not only the collective bargaining bill but also the backdoor parliamentary maneuvers used to pass it.

Union officials and progressive activists on the ground in Wisconsin say that six specific lawmakers have been targeted for recall (before Wednesday night that number had been eight). Of those, three were considered top tier “gets:†Sen. Randy Hopper (District 18) who won his last election by 184 votes, Sen. Alberta Darling (District 8) who won her last election with 51 percent of the vote, and Sen. Dan Kapanke (District 32) who also won his last election with 51 percent of the vote, in a district where President Obama won 61 percent of the vote in 2008. The other three lawmakers on the list were Sen. Robert Cowles (District 2), Sheila Harsdorf (District 10), and Luther Olsen (District 14).

Read the whole thing here.

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The bill restricting the collective bargaining rights of unions has passed in the Wisconsin State Assembly by a vote of 53-42. Read more here.

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Via Mediaite comes Ann Coulter's appearance on "Hannity," in which she explains why Wisconsin Republicans need "tough love." Watch below.

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WATCH:

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Assistant Senate Minority Leader David Hansen reacts to the anti-union bill's passage; take a look here.

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The president of the largest federation of unions in America had some surprising words for Wisconsin's governor, "The Atlantic" reports:

AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka has two words for Scott Walker: "Thank You."

The Wisconsin governor's plan to restrict collective-bargaining rights for government employees, which unexpectedly passed Wednesday night in the state Senate, has energized the labor movement in a way not seen in a generation, Trumka said.

"We probably should have invited him today to receive the Mobilizer of the Year award," Trumka said.

Full story here.

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The AP reports that the Wisconsin Justice Department is investigating threatening emails sent to GOP state senators:

Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald says all threatening messages have been forwarded to Capitol police.

The majority leader's spokesman, Andrew Welhouse, says the address of the person who sent one of the threatening e-mails was apparent, but police told him not to disclose it.

The e-mail said Fitzgerald and his "Republican dictators" must die because of their actions, presumably referring to GOP senators passing a bill removing most public employees' collective bargaining rights.

Full story here.

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On Thursday morning, the Capitol was closed for awhile, preventing protesters as well as employees who work in the statehouse from entering. The New York Times reports:

By preventing people from entering the capitol building Thursday morning, the police also denied entry to legislators, including at least two Democratic Assembly members — David Cullen and Elizabeth Coggs.

Mr. Cullen was turned away even after displaying his Assembly identification.

Asked why the officers did not allow him inside, Mr. Cullen said: “I don’t know. And they won’t answer why.â€

Later, Mr. Cullen and Ms. Coggs could be seen climbing into the building through a first-floor window.

The police said hundreds of people had entered the building overnight and that for the moment, no one would be allowed to enter or leave the building

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University of Wisconsin-Madison student journalist Talya Minsberg was at the Capitol Thursday morning, where a large crowd gathered early on. Minsberg told The Huffington Post that there were hundreds of high school students, and a Madison West student said that "almost the whole school walked out."

WATCH the scene outside the statehouse:

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MADISON, Wis. -- Wisconsin lawmakers voted Thursday to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from the state's public workers, ending a heated standoff over labor rights and delivering a key vi...
MADISON, Wis. -- Wisconsin lawmakers voted Thursday to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from the state's public workers, ending a heated standoff over labor rights and delivering a key vi...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
03:20 PM on 03/16/2011
20,000 new Pro-labor supporters in just 1 week...good job Wisconsin!

The Will of the American People will not be ignored.
11:47 PM on 03/13/2011
For the dogmatic naysayers and those still in denial, here's something for your consideration:

http://reason.com/archives/2011/03/11/3-essential-facts-about-the-cu

(FWIW, not that I think you'll even read past the headline before you implode....)
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markie G
...all 6's, 7's + 9's
12:50 AM on 03/14/2011
tell ya what, beaker--explain to me how taking money and jobs away from people helps the economy---i must have been asleep in econ101 the day they explained that one---then, i'll buy the BS ya just pedalled
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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gramma61
Pop popcorn without a lid.
01:09 AM on 03/14/2011
I must offer my congrats.That had to be without a doubt one of the most poorly written and dumbest piece I have read in quite sometime.
Implode..?? Seriously??? You should ashamed to admit you found that thing informative.
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markie G
...all 6's, 7's + 9's
05:08 PM on 03/13/2011
criminals---every rep that voted for this bill should be charged with fraud and imprisoned

repubs these days are no more socially aware than your average 3 yr old---they want everything, they want it now, they dont care how it affects anyone else, and they dont even know why they want what they want--and then, when they get it, its still not enough

despicable
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Andy Williams 1
Liberals! 21st century kooky!
07:01 PM on 03/13/2011
Yes, it's terrible how I want to keep what I earn. I'm so selfish. Who do I think I am to deny the public unions a greater part of my income? I guess I just don't get why they should be able to take until I can't pay anymore.
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gramma61
Pop popcorn without a lid.
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markie G
...all 6's, 7's + 9's
12:43 AM on 03/14/2011
point proven---thanks
12:58 PM on 03/13/2011
While I feel strongly that unions should be allowed to exist and have collective bargaining rights, I don't believe that this fight has anything to do with fiscal policy or big business. This is a political fight. Unions typically side with Democrats. The Republican party is trying to undermine the collective campaigning results that unions provide democrats while getting the public to fight over rich vs poor issues. This is a politically motivated move. People need to understand the importance of their vote. If more people took the time to go to the polls, we would have a more functional democracy. Special intrest groups would lose power if people vote on their own because they no longer hold a voting block that can be influenced by the support the group provides to a candidate. JUST VOTE. If you are 18+ you vote. That is why the elderly get more provisions then the youth. THEY VOTE! The Republicans are trying to not only distroy unions, but make it difficult for college kids to vote (another democrat base). This is an attact on the democratic voting base. They view the government as winning and losing, just like it's some sort of sporting event. It's pathetic the lack of care they provide the everyday citizen. I would appreciate, whether you agree with the republicans or democrats, that everyone makes a resolution this year to vote! It doesn't take much time, and it is worth it. It is our fundamental right; the american way!
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johngary66
Accused of heresy and decided to go with that.
03:18 AM on 03/13/2011
Only half of the eligible voters in Wisconsin voted in the 2010 midterm. This is what happens when people neglect their civic duty. I don't think that will happen again in 2012 so the Republicans burning their bridges today, will probably not be back.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Andy Williams 1
Liberals! 21st century kooky!
07:01 PM on 03/13/2011
Blame Obama, he's the reason why the dems didn't show up.
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johngary66
Accused of heresy and decided to go with that.
02:22 AM on 03/14/2011
Hi Andy love your singing. I couldn't agree with you more about Barry. I don't intend to ever vote for him again but I will continue to vote in every election and I hope others will also. Staying away altogether is not the answer as I'm sure Democrats across the country now realize. I believe everyone should vote their conscience and avoid voting for the lesser of two evils. That only plays into the hands of politicians like Obama. They don't think we have alternatives. Vote Green or Socialist and show them we actually do. Change will come eventually when we vote our conscience.
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FireDog
Peace lovin, Tree huggin, Progressive Lib
09:43 PM on 03/12/2011
Concerning not only the blatant disrespect for the people of Wisconsin but the deplorable and dishonest way that this Union busting bill was introduced, and ultimately became law, is a serious breech of trust and obstruction of justice and of the democratic system.

The behavior of Walker and his accomplice’s, the GOP legislators, is unscrupulous and should all be recalled, or impeached or both!

These guys are what gives Republican’s a bad name.
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markie G
...all 6's, 7's + 9's
05:11 PM on 03/13/2011
firedog---i'm pretty sure there have been hundreds of people giving repubs a bad name for a very long time now
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FireDog
Peace lovin, Tree huggin, Progressive Lib
06:21 PM on 03/13/2011
Yah that's true.

I should have said "These guys will ensure Repubs get the boot!"
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
katherine10
11:31 AM on 03/12/2011
In Oregon state workers pay nothing into their retirement or health care. They make twice what workers in the private sector do for the same job. Payment for this is on the backs of taxpayers here many of which have lost their jobs and health care. Only 30% of the nation is registered Democrat and yet all of us are paying those union dues to elect Democrats who push for deals for union members that we can no longer afford. Governor Walker is absolutely right. Unions must get in line with the rest of the nation. They can no longer demand lifetime tenure or be paid more than the private sector.There are plenty of laws to protect them in the workplace now.
02:17 PM on 03/12/2011
Agreed. Government unions act as PACs that we are all taxed to pay for.
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Lotus19
Power Concedes Nothing Without a Demand..FD
08:53 PM on 03/12/2011
As a management worker we received increasingly threatening notes, outright demands, that we contribute to Republican PACs. One Republican manager said that he had no problem with it, but when I questioned him further, he had no clue what the Republican platform was, especially relating to Pension Reform that made taking away his (our) pension easier.

I found that other Managers also considered themselves Republicans with no idea, what the h*ll was going on. I could only deduce that it made them feel part of the wealthy elite to vote Republican. Fools.
09:07 PM on 03/12/2011
You are taxed to pay our wages. What we do with our wages in none of your business. We are not slaves. What corporations decided to do with the hard earned money we spend on their products is also none of our business. This is the country that the supreme court has left us. When they allowed citizens united to pass, they lifted the veil off everything that has always been going on. Now it's a free for all.
09:04 PM on 03/12/2011
spoken like somebody who has no idea how the PERS system in Oregon works. All I had to do was a quick search to find out how much BS was in your paragraph. Try looking up PERS in Oregon and you will see they pay a percent of each paycheck into their retirements. At what percent may be the issue. Each union is completely different depending on what is negotiated. For instance, my husband contributes 9% toward PERS and that is not including the contribution to health care. So please do not say they don't contribute that is false.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Oldchef
Former Executive Chef, tr0ll watcher
10:54 AM on 03/12/2011
Show me where I'm wrong. Proof, please on each point, not just opinion.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Andy Williams 1
Liberals! 21st century kooky!
07:13 PM on 03/13/2011
who you talking too?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
10:07 PM on 03/13/2011
Who are you? the ThreadPolice?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Oldchef
Former Executive Chef, tr0ll watcher
10:13 AM on 03/14/2011
Sorry, I was trying to reply to "IndividualTerry" on the live comment thread and somehow I ended up way up here.
07:19 AM on 03/12/2011
I think this Nobel Prize-winning economist addresses many of the misconceptions about unions in the U.S.. It's only 7 minutes and you might come away with a few insights on this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kwA-CwFK5A
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PC Contrarian
Political Correctnes­s is the opiate of the left.
10:47 AM on 03/12/2011
Krugman is not as bright as many on the left think he is.

For example, in the clip you provided; he states that the "Great Compression" lasted until about 1980 when "it started to come apart" with a "dramatic increase of inequality".
Krugman notes that this is when Reagan came to the White House. Implying that it was Reagan who began increasing inequalities.

First, Reagan didn't come to the White House in 1980, it was 1981.
Second, any policy of Reagan, that was created in 1981, would not show up until 1982;
due to the the time it takes to implement policies, and any measurable effect on the inequalities wouldn't show up until 1983 or later.
Therefore, the "unraveling of the Great Compression" would have started before Reagan;
which was the Carter years.

He also states that this increase in inequality is unique to the US,
with the possible exception of the "Thatcher years" in Great Britain.
First, that's not true; or in leftist jargon, "He lied!"
China has seen an even greater increase of inequality than Britain.
Why the discrepancy?
Because Thatcher was a Conservative, and China is socialist.
No wonder the left loves Krugman.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
katherine10
11:35 AM on 03/12/2011
Krugman is wrong more than he is right. A classic is a clip where he is addressing Canadians and was expounding on Obama care and its wonders he asks the audience if they are happy with their health care with a big smile only to see no one raised their hand.
I do not see why anyone believes anything this man says.
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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
11:07 AM on 03/13/2011
Your response is way off track of facts too. Reagan took office in January of '81, but his "trickle down" tax cuts for the wealthy DID already effect people in 1981. Talk to deserving college students who lost their grants already in '81 so Reagan's wealthy could have their tax cuts. It helps to KNOW the facts before you speak.
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PC Contrarian
Political Correctnes­s is the opiate of the left.
10:57 AM on 03/12/2011
Krugman claims we are "off the charts", in terms of this increase of inequality.
Although there was an increase of inequality that began around 1980,
it is hyperbole to say it is "off the charts",
many people have gotten into growth industries and done well;
but, that's not the worst of it.
He creates a distorted view by selectively creating context,
that supports his bias.

Krugman neglects to mention the there was also a dramatic recovery from the economic disaster that Reagan inherited from carter. I remember it well.

Krugman also tries to blame Reagan for Union busting in the US;
although there was a throw away line, "that it began before him".
That would be Carter. I doubt any Huffies will notice that;
you'll just join in the meme.
12:33 PM on 03/12/2011
Right on with both your posts Contrarian! However, all logic is lost on the left. It is entertaining yes, but its pathetic to witness. For example: Krugman here glibly presents his fabricated version on the cause and effect of the 'imbalance' in union/non-union ranks in in the US and then he LIES about the time-line to fit his Left-ist political ideology (or is he really just that stupid?). In their illusion, the left lovingly lauds the progressive advancements and equality in Socialist or Socialist-leaning nations. But then they berate Big Evil Business when it takes advantage of the cost/benefit equation of cheaper labor and tax benefits afforded by those same nations to the US. Big Union Labor and the left howl their demands that we keep exorbitantly expensive jobs (ala $150,000 a year garbage collectors!) in the US, but they can't see that their excessive contractual demands are precisely what has begun to drive US Corporate labor... and our production base... out of the US while we watch our educational and production quality dwindle pathetically decade after decade, after decade. They fight to engender a lofty homogenized, globalist political world view in all its egalitarian glory, but then march and protest to demand that corporations and laborers blindly unify in adherence to the very separatist, "nationalistic" philosophy that they demonize in the Right. Sadly, the logic simply escapes them. And the Madison experience continues.
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Lotus19
Power Concedes Nothing Without a Demand..FD
08:23 PM on 03/12/2011
Carter, Reagan. Old news. We're talking about the recent economic disaster that we have not yet recovered from.
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FireDog
Peace lovin, Tree huggin, Progressive Lib
02:49 AM on 03/12/2011
Dems please vote next time so these GOP boomers like Walker don't get elected again.

Look what happens: Bills rammed through illegally and become law within hours all done fraudulently. This is not democracy and our founding fathers did not want this type of legislative behavior.

Don't pay attention to Faux news and Repubs saying Dems are just angry because of getting less wages and having to pay more for pensions, healthcare ... blah blah blah .....

They are already trying to change the reality and re-write the history. This is classic abusive behavior used by verbally abusive people. They abuse you and then act like you are crazy for protesting. They down play their actions, change the story and re-define the truth.

This is what bullies do too. These are very sick misguided people and their entire goal and agenda is to blame Obama and say he is the cause of all the problems.
beachgirlchix
We Will Not Be Silent!
09:46 AM on 03/12/2011
Well, I agree with everything you said, but I also think that Obama is part of the problem. He is a straight up corporatist.
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FireDog
Peace lovin, Tree huggin, Progressive Lib
07:57 PM on 03/12/2011
Yes he is not perfect and much more "corporatist" than I thought but I still think he is the best thing we've got.

And at least he has empathy and compasion for the poor, the unemployed and he believes Unions are good for the country.

He has my vote again in 2012!
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johngary66
Accused of heresy and decided to go with that.
03:40 AM on 03/13/2011
Amen beachgirlchix, Russ Feingold/Bernie Sanders in 2012. Fanned for truth.
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PC Contrarian
Political Correctnes­s is the opiate of the left.
11:05 AM on 03/12/2011
"Bills rammed through illegally and become law within hours all done fraudulent­ly."

Are you just repeating a talking point;
or can you make a case?

How were "Bills rammed through illegally..."?
What laws were broken? Be specific.

Further, how was the law "..done fraudulent­ly."?
What fraud was committed?
Again, be specific by quoting the law that was violated.
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FireDog
Peace lovin, Tree huggin, Progressive Lib
07:49 PM on 03/12/2011
Repubs are way better on "talking points" than I so you have me beat there.

Where have you been for the last couple of months? Everything Walker and the GOP legislators did has been questionable and will be contested in the courts.

Why don't YOU be specific. Bet you can't.
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SonOfUgh
Your micro-bio is empty
08:31 PM on 03/12/2011
The WI bill, I believe, was rammed through illegally. Here is my rationale.

1. Governor Walker said there would have to be layoffs without the legislation because there was no money to pay for the workers.
2. To vote on a fiscal bill, the GOP needed some of the Dems present to have a quorum.
3. The GOP chose to vote without the Dems because under a WI rule, non-fiscal bills could be passed with a smaller quorum.
4. After the bill passed, Walker announces that there is no longer a need for layoffs.
5. But layoffs were necessary for fiscal reasons. How could a non-fiscal bill address a fiscally driven need for layoffs?
6. Therefore, this was a fiscal bill and required the larger quorum.
7. The larger quorum was not present therefore, the bill was passed illegally.
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therealist2000
The day We the People bring down Corporate America
01:16 AM on 03/12/2011
We need a day of National Strikes and Boycotts
to show Solidarity with Wisconsin protesters.

Billy Bragg - Which Side Are You On?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbddqXib814&feature=related
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katherine10
11:41 AM on 03/12/2011
The public has no sympathy for these union thugs flown in from all over the country. Unions must get in line with the rest of the nation in benifits and wages.
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Lotus19
Power Concedes Nothing Without a Demand..FD
08:04 PM on 03/12/2011
You advocate that unions get in line with lower wages and benefits. You sound like a fool settling for crumbs at the feet of the Power Elite.
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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
12:01 PM on 03/13/2011
Where did you see any union thugs, unless Limbaugh & FOX switched around the background and people again?You evidently were not seeing any of the peaceful protests in Madison. Oh, I get it. You saw O'Reilly's protest with palm trees in the back ground. Lady, there are NO palm trees in Wisconsin. Have you ever been here? Why don't you people get wise and learn that anything you see or hear on Limbaugh & FOX is staged and full of blatant lies? REMEMBER?
":Politifacts."
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change 2010
Welcome to Ameritopia!
03:12 PM on 03/12/2011
unions are done, accept the future.
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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
12:02 PM on 03/13/2011
Will correct your TeaBagger mistake. Unions are the future, now more so after the Walker & Republican attacks on Democracy.
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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
12:04 PM on 03/13/2011
And I meant to say, "Walker & Republicans, YOU'RE FIRED."
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Lotus19
Power Concedes Nothing Without a Demand..FD
11:40 PM on 03/11/2011
There's a reason education s*cks. The same reason it will never, ever, be fixed. Because the Owners of this country don't want that.

The real Owners, the wealthy business interests, that control things and make all the important decisions.

Forget the politicians. They're there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You DON'T. You have Owners. They own you. They own everything. They own and control the Corporations, they've long since bought and paid for the Senate, Congress, State Houses. They own all big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you hear. Billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. What they want is more for themselves, and less for everybody else. They don't want a population of informed, educated, citizens capable of critical thinking. That doesn't help them. They want Obedient Workers. Dumb enough to passively accept sh*ttier jobs, lower pay, longer hours, reduced benefits, The vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect.

Now they're coming for your social security money so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. They'll get it all cause they own this place. It's a big club, and You ain't in it. The game is rigged.

And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hardworking people of modest means, continue to elect these rich ***k suckers who don't give a **** about them. They Don't Care About You.
----------
GEORGE CARLIN
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therealist2000
The day We the People bring down Corporate America
01:19 AM on 03/12/2011
Excellent...Fanned!

pete seeger which side are you on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g
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FireDog
Peace lovin, Tree huggin, Progressive Lib
02:13 AM on 03/12/2011
God isn't that so true!

And didn't George Carlin say this YEARS ago?

Thanks Lotus19!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
drini
daughter of houdini
03:42 PM on 03/12/2011
i worked with a bunch of foul mouthed knuckle draggers. when George Carlin died their response was: "Who is George Carlin?" i left that job soon after.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
desert bloom
11:29 PM on 03/11/2011
I don't think the union members realize that we, the public pay them. Essentially they are our employees. Why should they have better pay and much better benefits and 100% job security when most of us don't come close to having any of those things?

When I've asked that in the past, I have always been told to get a union job. What they don't seem to understand is, if everyone got a union govt job, there would be no tax base to pay them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mxytsplyk
De gustibus non est disputandum
12:28 AM on 03/12/2011
Why do you want to drag everyone else down to your level? Why not climb up to theirs?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
aznurse
03:35 PM on 03/13/2011
it's part of the big race to the bottom.
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therealist2000
The day We the People bring down Corporate America
01:25 AM on 03/12/2011
desertbloom, drink some water for god's sake..you sound a bit dry...

Paul Robeson - Shortenin bread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PpTQwkX9nY
09:13 PM on 03/12/2011
desert bloom's just tr0llin. As are several of them on here who frequent a liberal board.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
paparandy
Power to the People! Right On!
11:21 PM on 03/11/2011
I hope this whole thing makes people realize the importance of voting in even non-Presidential years. Too many people went to the polls angry and wanting to throw all the bums out. That's well and good but you have to be careful who you vote for to replace them. Not only has this election cost Wisconsin's Public Unions more in insurance and pension, but it has also, for the time being, cost them their collective bargaining rights. It has also cost them an outstanding Senator in Russ Feingold, one of the few Progressive, Liberal voices left in the U.S. Senate. A man who fought hard for the people of Wisconsin, and all middle class Americans. He was voted out for 2 reasons, he was part of the vote out the bums anger, and because Democrats and Progressives failed to get out and vote.

So, instead of getting angry and doing something rash in the voting booth, take a deep breath. Now, go educate yourself! Read newspapers and magazines (despite claims of a "liberal" media, there are plenty of both covering both sides of an issue). Go online. Look up the candidates, see what they have said about the issues that you support, look at the party's platform, check how a candidate has voted on issues. Just do the research it takes to make an educated , well informed decision. Don't vote for that letter beside the name, vote for the candidate that agrees with you Dem or Rep