Transgender People Contest NYC Birth Certificate Rule

NEW YORK -- Some transgender people say New York City is making it too difficult for them to change their birth certificates to reflect the people they have become.

Three said at a news conference Tuesday that the city is being unfair and intrusive by requiring people to undergo genital surgery before changing the gender on their birth certificates. They say many transgender people can't have that surgery, and undergoing hormone or other treatment to change gender should be enough.

Two have sued the city and one plans to do so. Separately, a transgender man raised similar complaints in a lawsuit filed Friday.

Health officials considered changing the policy in 2006 but decided not to.

City lawyers say officials are trying to make sure there are checks on changing an important identity document.

Comments

[Nicole Dixson]

10:06 AM on 03/28/2011

Yes, otherwise it is just too confusing.

[odyssey58]

07:12 PM on 03/25/2011

Barbara Walters did a special about transgendered children. These kids knew at a very young age that who they were inside didn't match how they looked on the outside. These kids were BORN that way. It wasn't a choice.
I know transgendered people. I dated one. They always felt that they had the wrong bodies. They didn't choose to be that way.
The ignorance and hate expressed on this topic are just sickening. Just be grateful if you were born "normal" and stop picking on those who are different from you.

[odyssey58]

06:59 PM on 03/25/2011

So if transgendered people are allowed to change their birth certificates how specifically does that impact your life? If you were a transgendered person would you want to be able to change your birth certificate?
If changing a birth certificate has no actual impact on your life and your aren't transgendered should even have a say? Does your opinion actually matter?

[Ernie Lijoi]

04:19 PM on 03/25/2011

Beyond the academic blather about the definitions of "sex" and "gender"...

I would argue that brain chemistry and emotional identity are the actual indicators of a person's sex/gender, and that using the visual cues provided simply by genitalia is insufficient and often misleading criteria on which to base decision for someone.

Given that, yes, the birth certificate should be changed, regardless of whether or not someone has had surgery, because the birth certificate was filled in INCORRECTLY at the time of birth.

on top of that, so many of you here have such strong opinions about this... why do you CARE if someone wants to change their birth certificate? It's because you are fundamentally a bigot. That's why.

[Ernie Lijoi]

04:40 PM on 03/25/2011

oops dupe post.. didn;t think the first one got through the censors

[Ernie Lijoi]

04:02 PM on 03/25/2011

Some of you here are outright stupid.

But most of you, even the not so stupid ones, are making assumptions. You are assuming that the gender ascribed to these people at birth is the correct gender simply because of the visual cues given us by genitalia.

I would argue that the emotional identity and brain chemisty of a human being far outweighs their particular genital configuration when it comes to gender identity. Which means that yes, the certificate should be changed because it was filled in INCORRECTLY upfront based on criteria that is inconclusive and misleading.

[HerrMonk]

04:33 PM on 03/25/2011

What you're talking about is gender, not sex. I know you're probably way too smart and well educated to realize this.

Sex is what the BC identifies, and is based on your immutable chromosome configuration.

If BCs mentioned gender, then you'd have an argument.

[Ernie Lijoi]

04:41 PM on 03/25/2011

and you're clearly only here to use this issue as a platform to voice your personal disgust.

[pickle541]

11:34 AM on 03/28/2011

No. The birth certificate is completed by officials at the hospital, based on identification of genitals, and not much else. There are no chromosome tests to complete a birth certificate.

You are halfway there with your reasoning, however. Transgender people already know their gender is different than their sex, and they want their sex, as indicated on the birth certificate, to match their gender. Outwardly, most people who transition are already recognized by their gender, but the birth certificate says differently.

[HerrMonk]

01:35 PM on 03/25/2011

Birth certificates identify sex.

You can't change your sex no matter what you change hormonally or cosmetically: it is what you are.

There's no need for birth certificates to address gender.

[Ernie Lijoi]

04:03 PM on 03/25/2011

and you can't change stupid either. Is that on your Birth Certificate?

[7583384]

06:15 PM on 03/24/2011

A birth certificate is a permanent record of who you were when you were born. it *shouldn't* be changed.

[Nicole Dixson]

10:09 AM on 03/28/2011

Birth certificates are amended all the time, especially in situations related to paternity and the court has to order the father's name to be added or removed. I am for changing birth certificates for transgendered people, but have the surgery first.

[gemini68]

03:36 PM on 03/24/2011

A birth certificate is proof of birth. I don't think you should be able to go back and change your record of birth. Having said that, I think perhaps transgendered individuals should be able to modify their drivers' licenses and ID's as these are more pertinent to everyday life.

[TashaDK]

07:14 PM on 03/24/2011

There are circumstances where the BC is used for ID purposed (ie Getting a Passport, gaining a marriage Licence). This can cause considerable stress and embarassment to the TG person who cannot get the BC changed.

[gemini68]

09:10 AM on 03/25/2011

Then perhaps there should be a box for gender modification on the birth certificate. But the actual documentation of the person's birth should not be changed.

[pickle541]

11:39 AM on 03/28/2011

Being alive is proof of birth. I think you'd have a more successful point if you based your argument on what trans people actually need, not what it seems like to you, being non-trans.

Changing almost any official document requires producing a birth certificate. It's very necessary to transgender people, as is the relief of having all documents reflect who they really are.

[Jack Straw]

02:15 PM on 03/24/2011

I'm curious about one thing. What is their protocol for dating? Are trans people expected to divulge their change or what sex they were at birth to potential dates or at least before starting s3xual activity?

While I understand the whole "identifying" part of their reasoning I wonder is the potential suitor supposed to be OK with their change or does that person deserve to know about their gender reassignment beforehand?

[pickle541]

11:55 AM on 03/28/2011

Uh, obviously they might be interested in someone who is "OK" with it, and avoid people who would react negatively. But it is an issue for trans people. Violence against trans people by others who are bigoted or scared is very common.

[Jack Straw]

03:54 PM on 03/28/2011

Uh, obviously they might not always act that way but way to generalize while trying to play intelligent. It was a simple question without any hidden agenda but you try to spin it otherwise. What is your problem with someone asking a simple question? How about asking it this way. "Is it considered wrong, bad form, or deceitful for someone who has had gender reassignment to not be honest with potential partners about said reassignment before there is any intimacy?" Perhaps you shouldn't be so obtuse and realize that this might be a reactive question versus a proactive one!

[DrSnuggles]

12:43 PM on 03/24/2011

This is obvviously quite a divisive issue (if the comments below are anything to judge). I would say there has to be some sort of middle ground between what a birth certificate IS and what a birth certificate DOES.

A birth certificate IS a record of birth, it seems a tad ridiculous to be able to change it retroactively. If you were born male, you were born male, end of story (ignoring for the moment those born with 'the option' if you will; that's a square and we really need to take care of the rectangles first).

The problem is with what a birth certificate DOES, it's the defining document that is the basis of passports, drivers licenses etc. Maybe a better option would be to allow people to have the opportunity to have some sort of addendum where they legally change their gender (we can do it quite easily with names).

The other question that arises is the relative ease at which this can be done; obviously it should not be 'willy nilly' we can all agree on that. Also obviously, I think that once gender reassignment surgery has happened that should be enough (that's a whole lot more commitment to the idea than changing some documents). In between these two there is a huge gray area.

[levresamant]

11:02 AM on 03/24/2011

What I am is a transexual. WHO I am is a woman who has had many male experiences,
and I can draw from those experiences just as easily as i can draw from the female within,
in order to help other people.

I am NOT what you perceive of me. I AM me.

[traveling1]

05:55 PM on 03/24/2011

Ignoring the idio.tic "kenyan" comment, I have to say I WISH he was a socialist instead of the corporate war-monger just like his predecessor. If he was a socialist, we'd have public health care and strong Wall Street regulation. We don't, do we?

And off topic myself - my birth certificate looks a lot like his, I've never seen (nor been asked for) a "long" version. Do you have one?

[Paulo1]

08:29 AM on 03/24/2011

Hey I am all for the end of persecution for Trans people. However this is not about jobs and housing. Its about trying to rewrite history. A document reflects the fact at the time. You are born a specific gender and the document should correctly reflect that fact. The only change I would make is to add a line for "gender ambiguous" as some people are born intersexed.

It would make much more sense if there was a line added to the birth certificate that listed "gender change" and the date.

[Jamie Dufour]

09:04 AM on 03/24/2011

History is only a compilation of the most popular story or version of events not necessarily the truth !

The point and reason one requests a birth certificate change is to become congruent with who or what a person "ACTUALLY" is. this medically recognized and proven...!!!

[mikey09]

09:47 AM on 03/24/2011

In lots of sports and other functions we ask for birth certificates of kids to prove their age. I seriously doubt a boy of 13 would want a line on his birth certificate to read "gender ambiguous".
 
But for transsexuals it might be OK for the "gender change" notation. My problem is that people MAY not be honest with others abt their birth sex and reproductive abilities.

[Jamie Dufour]

08:07 AM on 03/24/2011

Great Post HP, barely a paragraph compared to most of the rubbish your site has become since being acquired by AOL. You seemingly like to flex your conservative polarized new control more and more these last two months barely glazing a story like this just to incite some of the negative comments I have read bellow.

There is a wealth of information on this subject that you left out misguiding the ignorance seen bellow. A large percentage of Transgendered are actually born "inter-sexed" which means having parts or both of each gender, many infants are born with this rather common condition (1 in 2000) and often the parents choice as to which parts to repress or remove is not the correct decision which often in puberty or even much later in adulthood becomes apparent; in rare occurrences this has become identified even sooner in childhood also do to the increasing awareness of these conditions....

Lastly the human brain is far more complicated then most wish to admit, and honestly I don't have the answers but really don't feel inclined to deny them this important step in their transition process. They are not hurting anyone and want nothing more then what you and I want....To fit in and be a part of life and not feel like an outcast.....

[KIVPossum]

08:05 AM on 03/24/2011

A birth certificate should reflect who you were born, not who you became later in life

[ladylove114]

08:26 AM on 03/24/2011

Exactly. I think I'll change the last name on mine to Rockefeller because I have always felt I was supposed to be born to a rich family.

[pickle541]

12:01 PM on 03/28/2011

Said with a fair amount of resentment. You can be what you are. That's what trans people ask for.

The article was about who much is needed to change your official document, not whether it should be allowed-- which it is.

[gemini68]

03:40 PM on 03/24/2011

Agreed. I'm all for changing passports, drivers' licenses and state IDs. But a birth certificate is record of what you were when you came into the world. I do think that maybe they should modify them and give people the ability to maybe add a note such as, "Gender reassigned".

[pickle541]

11:46 AM on 03/28/2011

You can't change driver's licenses and passports without the birth certificate. It's a huge obstacle for trans people, and it can give others authority to continue to insist they are not who they feel they are.