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Ohio Collective Bargaining Limits Prevail, But Unions Vow Fight

Ohio Collective Bargaining Bill

First Posted: 03/31/11 09:45 AM ET Updated: 05/31/11 06:12 AM ET

CLEVELAND (AP) — Unlike Wisconsin's high-profile effort to limit collective bargaining rights for public workers, Ohio's includes police and firefighters – who say it threatens the safety of officers and the people they protect.

Opponents have vowed to put the issue on the November ballot, giving voters a chance to strike the law down. The firefighters' union in Cleveland plans to hit the streets and help gather signatures.

Patrolman Michael Cox, a 15-year veteran of Cleveland's police force, said Ohio overlooked the inherent risks of police and firefighting work when lawmakers included them in the bill, which passed the Legislature on Thursday.

"We don't run from the house fire; we don't run from the gunshot," he said. "We're the guys that got to say, 'OK, we're going to go fix this problem real fast.'"

Under the Ohio plan, police and firefighters won't be able to bargain with cities over the number of people required to be on duty. That means they can't negotiate the number of staff in fire trucks or police cars, for instance.

Supporters of the bargaining limits say decisions on how to equip police and fire departments should be in the hands of city officials, not union members.

"Shouldn't it be the employer who decides what's safe and what's not safe?" said state Rep. Joseph Uecker, who was a police officer in the Cincinnati area for 15 years. "Don't you think they are the ones who should decide whether they should have one or two or three people in a car? That's what we call management rights."

Cleveland Police Officer Anthony Sauto is recovering after a bullet that pierced his leg a few months ago during a night shift on the west side of town. The wound will heal, but he worries that patrolling the streets will be even more dangerous when he returns to work.

"That's my No. 1 concern," Sauto said. "We put our lives on the line."

The 350,000 public workers covered under the bill can still negotiate wages and certain work conditions – but not health care, sick time or pension benefits. The measure also does away with automatic pay raises and bases future wage increases on merit.

Wisconsin's measure covers 175,000 workers but exempts police and firefighters.

Kasich has said his $55.5 billion, two-year state budget counts on unspecified savings from lifting union protections to fill an $8 billion hole.

In northeast Ohio, fear that a loss of bargaining will result in layoffs and further cutbacks is rippling through the law enforcement community.

One of the biggest worries is one-man patrol cars, said Steve Loomis, president of the city's local police union. Under the current contract, Cleveland police officers are required to have at least two officers in a patrol car when driving through certain neighborhoods, Loomis said.

Democrats have 90 days after Kasich signs the bill to gather more than 230,000 valid signatures to get it on the fall ballot. Loomis believes that if Senate Bill 5 goes unchallenged, the two-man rule will be the first thing to go.

"They're going to give up our safety for the illusion that there's more police on the street," Loomis said. "That's horrifying. Guys get killed."

And equipment that police officers say is vital but that the city says is too expensive – like computers in patrol cars, a rarity in Cleveland – will be harder to get without the complete bargaining process, Loomis said.

State lawmakers did make last-minute changes to the measure in the House that allow police and fire officials to bargain for vests, shields and other safety gear.

Mike Norman, secretary for Cleveland's local firefighters union, said that's a cold comfort compared with what he called an "all-out assault" on the union.

"Changes to the game supersede the topics that we're allowed to discuss," he said. "This isn't something that needed to be tweaked a little bit."

As Cleveland's population has declined in the past decade, so have its ranks of police officers. Two rounds of layoffs have left the police force more than 300 officers smaller since 2004.

The street crimes unit, which used to investigate prostitution and gambling, is no more. The auto theft unit was also disbanded. And a city that stretches 22 miles along Lake Erie no longer has a single police boat to patrol its own waters; that job is now left to the Coast Guard, Loomis said.

The Fire Department has lost more than 200 members and closed five companies since 2004. City Public Safety Director Martin Flask said all furloughed police and fire employees have been recalled to duty, but he acknowledged that staffing levels have declined in recent years.

"What this bill is going to do," Loomis said, "is allow bean counters and people who have never walked a step in our shoes, sitting behind a mahogany desk, to make decisions on our safety."

The office of Mayor Frank Jackson did not respond to requests for comment on the police and firefighters' complaints.

Like other public employees, law enforcement officials are also worried about things like rising health care costs. Youngstown firefighter Dave Cook, 43, thinks it will be tough to attract qualified candidates to the dangerous profession if health care costs go through the roof.

"Who's going to come into a police or fireman job when the starting pay is $24,000 a year?" he said. "What type of recruits are you going to get?"

On his way to work Thursday morning, Cleveland police Officer Henry Steel said most officers would support the effort to repeal the bill. But at work, he said, it will be business as usual.

"We're all professionals," he said. "We're going to do our job, period. We're going to do our job. We may not be too happy about it."

___

Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Ann Sanner, Julie Carr Smyth and JoAnne Viviano in Columbus, and John Seewer in Toledo.

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CLEVELAND (AP) — Unlike Wisconsin's high-profile effort to limit collective bargaining rights for public workers, Ohio's includes police and firefighters – who say it threatens the safety ...
CLEVELAND (AP) — Unlike Wisconsin's high-profile effort to limit collective bargaining rights for public workers, Ohio's includes police and firefighters – who say it threatens the safety ...
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12:59 AM on 04/01/2011
Let us check the statistics for those of you that actually do not know the demographics of this country. Only 7% of Americans who work in the private industry (which amounts to about 80% of those that actually work for a living) belong to a union. So, get off of this great contribution that unions make TODAY in this country. The reason the union membership has dropped so much in the last 40 years in private industry is exactly what they are now doing to our government structures. They pushed and pushed companies like GM, Ford, and Chrysler, for example until these companies became unable to compete with a cost competitive car with the quality and features of non-union competitors. These unions had power and they used it over and over until these companies were forced to move production lines offshore to compete and stay in business. Now, the same union mindset has created an unsustainable cost of labor at all levels of public service and will not be satisfied until every city, state, and federal government entity goes bankrupt trying to pay the union over the top salaries and benefits. It is a fact of history and it is happening right in front of our noses, and many of you are too blind to see it or admit to it. It isn't the cause of all of our financial problems, but it a significant element in our government financial problems.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
profoundimagery
Human Being - Born Savannah GA. Raised in South Br
12:11 AM on 04/01/2011
I thought reality from experience determined the number of firemen and police needed in responding to fires and law enforcement, as documented by Congress, the Constitution, fire and law enforcement history.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
tacevad
American SS Card Carrying Socialist
09:49 PM on 03/31/2011
"Shouldn't it be the employer who decides what's safe and what's not safe?" said state Rep. Joseph Uecker, OK ONLY if the employer accepts all the responsibility when things go wrong horribly. And I think it should be a personal responsibility of each and every City ,County and State official who has signed off on this ____!
maruski
Liberal Lutheran; lean left, save America!
09:19 PM on 03/31/2011
"One of the biggest worries is one-man patrol cars, said Steve Loomis, president of the city's local police union. Under the current contract, Cleveland police officers are required to have at least two officers in a patrol car when driving through certain neighborhoods, Loomis said."

that's the kind of thing people really want to negotiate about, things only insiders know that let them do the job right. politicians don't know what the best class size or the right number of police officers in a car is....oh yeah I can just hear the people who consider themselves the watchdogs of waste crying foul, they like to think they can make it look good by "cutting" things like that--heck we could get by with 1/4 the teachers if we quadruple class size! think of the savings....
08:56 PM on 03/31/2011
What Kasich is doing is in the best interests of the majority of the citizens of Ohio regardless of income levels, etc. The unions want you to think what Kasich is doing is against the middle class, etc, but that is just propaganda. The taxpayers of Ohio are getting screwed by these public service unions, and what Kasich is doing only affects those that are members of these public service unions who have, over the years, gotten outrageous salaries and benefits at taxpayer expense, and it is the largest cost element in the state budget. Something has to be done to bring these benefit packages back closer to those private employees, who are paying for these public service benefits, are getting, and at levels which the state can afford to pay. Do not get sucked in by the union propaganda,
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Matt Chernesky
Little Gay Monster on HuffPost
09:54 PM on 03/31/2011
Union members pay taxes too, duncha'know?
10:10 PM on 03/31/2011
And the money these union members have to pay taxes come originally from taxpayers outside of the public union membership. The dues that union members have to pay to the unions are then turned around by the union leaders and used to support Democrats running for office (95% to Dems). Can you see how incestuous this is? If the union leaders used the dues contributions for their membership retirements instead of politics, everyone would be better off.
11:52 PM on 03/31/2011
That is the most ignorant thing anyone can say. It just isn't true and you know it. What Kasich is doing will destroy Ohio and what he is doing is only serving the interests of the very wealthy. If the rich were paying their fair share of taxes, their really wouldn't be much of a fiscal problem. Think about it. The rich and the wealthy corporations have it made. They have been sucking off the welfare teat for all it is worth. Kasich and his Republican goons are in the business of a massive tax shifting shell game. The rich instead of paying taxes for the privilige of being Americans are getting tax cuts left and right and those tax cuts are being paid for by cutting baddly needed services and the pay for public workers. That is as low as you can get. You certainly don't see Republican officials taking pay cuts or even see public administrators taking pay cuts either. Isn't that funny. In Wisconsin, even Republican mistresses get 32% pay increases over the past employees that did the same job. I bet that is happening in Ohio too. We just don't know about it yet.
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Totto
"Not 'Noise' One Round: *Music*
08:16 PM on 03/31/2011
Kasich's gotta go!
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irochfpst
no right turn
07:42 PM on 03/31/2011
whatever we have to do to fight back against these crazy and contemptable people we should do it even if it means rewriting our constitiution.
11:20 PM on 03/31/2011
No need to rewrite the Constitution. Simply following it will suffice. It wasn't written for the wealthy, but rather for all citizens.
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fatback65
I love sopapillas.
07:37 PM on 03/31/2011
There is a war on people against the middle and lower income citizens of this country. The corporations and their minions in congress will do anything to rub us out. We need to dig in our heels and fight the good fight. Join. Get informed. Write a check. Protest. Call your congressmen and Senators. Call the president. The future is surely a bleak one if they win. We will have to fight for scraps, likely each other, while they sit in their crystal palaces looking down. Let's get busy. We can win this. We have to.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Guitarsandmore
devoted father, community activist, musician, reti
06:45 PM on 03/31/2011
So we'll just make Americans as poor as the people in India and that will somehow magically fix everything, but for who? Only the rich and greedy that are already well off. Isn't this bass ackwards? Shouldn't we be making India look like America, instead and WITH unions, and WITH benefits, and WITH universal healthcare????

Why are we dragging everyone down instead of lifting everyone up?

I say, make everyone join a union. That would be magic!
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cyndeewi
Here to save the day
07:28 PM on 03/31/2011
Atleast the people in India have good teachers, most of them are either over taking our jobs or working on our jobs sent over there.
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treadway123
treadway123
06:28 PM on 03/31/2011
Are we liveing in Nazi germany or United States? This sure sound like what Hitler did when he closed all unions/Collective Barganing right an Oppressed the opposition of every group that could have allowed "The People" to have a say! We all know what that history brought to us all!
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cyndeewi
Here to save the day
07:29 PM on 03/31/2011
As long as we keep voting for republicans, we will wish we were over in Germany.
Sloane7
Proud Liberal
06:18 PM on 03/31/2011
Ohio, did you vote for this clown? Why did you elect a Republican? Why did you vote for him? Yes, undo this, but remember, Republicans do not care about you, they care about corporations that pay for their campaigns.
11:24 PM on 03/31/2011
I'm a Buckeye and I can say without a doubt the Tea Party/anti-Obama fervor was strong here during the election. Many progressives and the black community, whether disenchanted with Obama or just simply lackadaisical about the election, stayed home. That is why the GOP now control every part of the Ohio state gov't right now.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
05:28 PM on 03/31/2011
This is from above:

But Chris Littleton, who represents a coalition of tea party groups called the Ohio Liberty Council, disagreed. He said tea party backers who helped seal Republican victories last fall are all for the changes.

"We set making Ohio a right-to-work state and complete elimination of employee unions as a primary objective for 2011," he said. "So we would have liked to see it go even further, but we are definitely supportive of this measure."

Is this the USA ,Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy?
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hootie1fan
A liberal, educated, Catholic Yankee living in AL
05:06 PM on 03/31/2011
A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie.
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Tquin
05:12 PM on 03/31/2011
This is true but normally a ceo owns the company. If not, then stockholder do. They may or may not be American. The countriess that we borrow money from are buying up American Companies. What happens if the ceo has to need to sit down with anyone?
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hootie1fan
A liberal, educated, Catholic Yankee living in AL
07:28 PM on 03/31/2011
Every corporation I have worked for had a CEO who was not nor had ever been the owner. A good busines school, family connections and $$$$$$$$$$$, but no ownership or even long term connection the the company
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cyndeewi
Here to save the day
07:36 PM on 03/31/2011
Old joke but so true!
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nypapajoe
04:58 PM on 03/31/2011
Stand up to this republican induced fascist regime that is being dictated to by the ultra conservative corporations who want to destroy collective bargaining and privatize every job under the sun to maximize their profits and make larger political donations to their republican employees in public office! Conduct recalls and take them to court!
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thereisonlyoneparty
more amazing than you
10:03 PM on 04/04/2011
Enough of the crazy talk, child.

This is about a system in which state governments are unable to deal with costs of labor because union contracts are too protective and too expensive.

People should be paid the market value of their labor.  that is not happening.  Unions are able to strong arm states into pay raises not based on merit.  They are able to get situations where it is only worthwhile to attempt to termination the worst of employees.

Unions are greedy organizations composed mostly of members that cannot understand even basic math.