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Osama Bin Laden Death Confirmed By DNA Testing: Reports

Osama Bin Laden Dead Dna Test

ROBERT BURNS and CALVIN WOODWARD   05/ 2/11 09:36 PM ET   AP

WASHINGTON — Knowing there would be disbelievers, the U.S. says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden's identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique that surrounded the terrorist chieftain in life is persisting in death.

Was it really him? How do we know? Where are the pictures?

Already, those questions are spreading in Pakistan and surely beyond. In the absence of photos and with his body given up to the sea, many people don't believe bin Laden – the Great Emir to some, the fabled escape artist of the Tora Bora mountains to foe and friend alike – is really dead.

U.S. officials are balancing that skepticism with the sensitivities that might be inflamed by showing images they say they have of the dead al-Qaida leader and video of his burial at sea. Still, it appeared likely that photographic evidence would be produced.

"We are going to do everything we can to make sure that nobody has any basis to try to deny that we got Osama bin Laden," John Brennan, President Barack Obama's counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. He said the U.S. will "share what we can because we want to make sure that not only the American people but the world understand exactly what happened."

In July 2003, the U.S. took heat but also quieted most conspiracy theorists by releasing graphic photos of the corpses of Saddam Hussein's two powerful sons to prove American forces had killed them.

So far, the U.S. has cited evidence that satisfied the Navy SEAL force, and at least most of the world, that they had the right man in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

The helicopter-borne raiding squad that swarmed the luxury compound identified bin Laden by appearance. A woman in the compound who was identified as his wife was said to have called out bin Laden's name in the melee.

Officials produced a quick DNA match from his remains that they said established bin Laden's identity, even absent the other techniques, with 99.9 percent certainty. U.S. officials also said bin Laden was identified through photo comparisons and other methods.

Tellingly, an al-Qaida spokesman, in vowing vengeance against America, called him a martyr, offering no challenge to the U.S. account of his death.

Even so, it's almost inevitable that the bin Laden mythology will not end with the bullet in his head. If it suits extremist ends to spin a fantastical tale of survival or trickery to gullible ears, expect to hear it.

In the immediate aftermath, people in Abbottabad expressed widespread disbelief that bin Laden had died – or ever lived – among them.

"I'm not ready to buy bin Laden was here," said Haris Rasheed, 22, who works in a fast food restaurant. "How come no one knew he was here and why did they bury him so quickly? This is all fake – a drama, and a crude one."

Kamal Khan, 25, who is unemployed, said the official story "looks fishy to me."

The burial from an aircraft carrier in the North Arabian Sea was videotaped aboard the ship, according to a senior defense official who spoke on condition of anonymity because a decision on whether to release the video was not final. The official said it was highly likely that the video, along with photographs of bin Laden's body, would be made public in coming days.

The swiftness of the burial may have raised suspicions but was in accord with Islamic traditions. Islamic scholars, however, challenged U.S. assertions that a burial at sea was an appropriate fate for a Muslim who had died on land.

The act denied al-Qaida any sort of burial shrine for their slain leader. Once again, bin Laden had vanished, but this time at the hands of the United States and in a way that ensures he is gone forever.

If that satisfies U.S. goals and its sense of justice, Brad Sagarin, a psychologist at Northern Illinois University who studies persuasion, said the rapid disposition of the body "would certainly be a rich sort of kernel for somebody to grasp onto if they were motivated to disbelieve this."

Also expected to come out is a tape made by bin Laden, before U.S. forces bore down on him, that may provide fodder to those who insist he is alive.

Pakistan, for one, is a land of conspiracy theorists, and far-fetched rumors abound on the streets and in blogs throughout the Arab world. But that's not just a characteristic of the Islamic pipeline. Many ordinary Americans – and one billionaire – persistently questioned whether Obama was born in the U.S. despite lacking any evidence that he wasn't.

Sagarin said most people will probably be convinced bin Laden is dead because they cannot imagine the government maintaining such an extraordinary lie to the contrary in this day and age.

Yet, he said, "as with the birther conspiracy, there's going to be a set of people who are never going to be convinced. People filter the information they receive through their current attitudes, their current perspectives."

To be sure, even photos and video, subject to digital manipulation, may not provide the final word to everyone. But Seth Jones, a RAND Corp. political scientist who advised the commander of U.S. special operations forces in Afghanistan, said the administration should do all it can to minimize doubts.

"There are always conspiracy theories," he said. "There are individuals who believe that bin Laden wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks."

__

Associated Press writers Zarar Khan in Abbottabad, Pakistan; Malcolm Ritter in New York; and Lolita C. Baldor, Ben Feller, Matt Apuzzo and Pauline Jelinek in Washington contributed to this report.

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WASHINGTON — Knowing there would be disbelievers, the U.S. says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden's identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique th...
WASHINGTON — Knowing there would be disbelievers, the U.S. says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden's identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique th...
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06:57 AM on 05/05/2011
So the shot man`s identity was confirmed by DNA analysis !

i) can`t be done that quickly.

ii) it follows they shot a man without being sure of his identity.

They then permanently disposed of the body (evidence).

Suggests they got the wrong man, or he was already dead and they knew it.
01:10 AM on 05/05/2011
Sorry, but how exactly did authorities use DNA to verify his identity to 99.9% certainty? That kind of certainty only exists if you already have a known sample of DNA to compare against. At best all they could have is a sample from a relative and that would at best indicate that he was a relative. It would simply not prove that he was Osama bin Laden.
04:52 PM on 05/07/2011
Agreed, and a recent Wallstreet journal article had a few geneticists who were balking at that figure.

And on the mitochondrial DNA analysis (he was compared to his dead sister) you are correct, it would prove he was a sibling, not necessarily OBL.
11:36 PM on 05/04/2011
I wonder why they showed the executions video of Sadam Hussein but won't show the videos and picutres of Osama Bin Laden? They would show videos and pictures of us Americans though. It makes it more suspicious when you don't show these things, especially of someone as cruel as he was. I would have showed everything the next day knowing that Osama Bin Laden smiled when 9-11 happened. I wonder if he's smiling now....
04:53 PM on 05/07/2011
Americans are not that squeamish, we see bloodier things on CSI Miami.
08:01 AM on 05/08/2011
Because Saddam Hussein was not hanged while the Obama administration was in office.
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OntheBorder
Part of the 53% that carries the Liberal weight
03:02 PM on 05/04/2011
Yep..all the most convincing means of confirmation available....right but not for public consumption.

We just need to take their word for it....the body, well its sleeping with the fishes.
04:54 PM on 05/07/2011
You hit upon something, and that is the new line given to the media to parrot:

"Convincing means"

Expect to hear it dozens of times over the weekend.
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05:47 PM on 05/03/2011
It's easy to fake DNA tests, why should I believe in authority that has be caught in so many lies?
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10:29 AM on 05/04/2011
Personally, I don't fully believe this so-called "Pakistan" even exists.
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Erewhon7
Join atheists, our non-prophet organization
05:21 PM on 05/03/2011
There's rejoicing in Islambic Paradise. One of Righteous has arrived.
Slightly waterlogged but still serviceable.
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03:54 PM on 05/03/2011
I just can't help myself, even though I could do without the language. It's still funny but sad: If you like George Carlin on war:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY&feature=related
02:44 PM on 05/03/2011
I remain skeptical of the entire story for basic reasons already stated here. I also have intimate knowledge about how DNA extraction works. In the best case scenario that science can allow, it will yield results in 2-3 days. That is using a buccal swab (white cells found in the tissue of the cheek). However, we do not know how they extracted his dna, if it was blood, hair, teeth, brain, it could take up to a month. The results that they use will be a paternity test, which measures Y-DNA, the dna that is passed from father to son immemorial. They either eliminated him a week ago, or there is a new technology that we the community is unfamiliar with. After the WMD debacle at the UN, I have learned that we are not always told the truth about things.
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04:17 PM on 05/03/2011
"I also have intimate knowledge about how DNA extraction works. In the best case scenario that science can allow, it will yield results in 2-3 days."

You are mistaken: http://goo.gl/kGa4B
02:41 PM on 05/04/2011
This is an excellent link, and thank you for posting it.

This is relevant, but albeit not completely encompassing of the facts. There are far more than 13 loci that are measurable in str testing and thirteen are certainly not enough to prove relationship. To prove relationship they can (in the case of my own knowledge) do two things:str test at least 68 loci, AND run a snp test as well. This type of testing takes time, and we are not familiar with the variables which may contribute to the speed of the testing. Admittedly, I possess no knowledge about the other types of DNA/forensic testing that might be able to expedite the process.

In closing, I am not of the belief that I am mistaken in my assertion. Humans and fish are not exactly alike wherefore most do not run sibling paternity tests on fish, so while his science is correct, the applications are not fully encompassing.

Cheers for the response.
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archspoiler
my micro-bio is empty
05:40 PM on 05/03/2011
"I also have intimate knowledge about how DNA extraction works." But apparently not the time involved in the analysis. I recommend the Scientific American blog linked above.

And just a head's-up: the appeal to authority becomes a fallacy when that authority is not germane to the specifics of the topic.
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02:03 PM on 05/03/2011
I never believe government, never have. My Grandma taught me well. In the old days everyone knew politics is all about the graft and a lie.
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Erewhon7
Join atheists, our non-prophet organization
05:16 PM on 05/03/2011
How about traffic citations. You believe those?
MWA1111
I'll let you set the tone for our conversation
05:40 PM on 05/03/2011
Sure I believe those... that they're a means of revenue disguised as "protecting the public safety".
01:52 PM on 05/03/2011
ABC reports DNA confirmation as compared to Osama Bin Laden's dead sister's brain. As I understand DNA analysis at best that only confirms relation and not that it was Osama Bin Laden. There are many, many relatives.
05:00 PM on 05/07/2011
Yup, you are talking about "maternal" or Mitochondrial DNA. When a woman has children, all of them share her mitochondrial DNA, which can be tested. What has me wondering is that I have heard it takes weeks to test mtDNA--any further info, guys?
09:31 AM on 05/03/2011
If he weren't dead, wouldn't Bin Laden make it a point to make the US look like liars and send of video of himself out to the world? His ego wouldn't have let the US have victory over his death.
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drini
daughter of houdini
11:50 AM on 05/03/2011
yes indeed! magic decoder rings!! magic decoder rings!!! i have them over here right next to this week's national enquirer with photos in full color!!! LOL!!!
05:03 PM on 05/07/2011
Not necessarily. I have often wondered why there have been no videos of Bin laden (or at least none which seemed to post-date) since Tora Bora. For the longest time, my assumption was that the guy was dead, and that the Bush Whitehouse knew he was dead, but didn't want to make him a martyr.

Now assume that you are a President and you know this, but your poll ratings are in the sewer....

Of course that sounds like a conspiracy theory, and I dislike those...but with this crowd you never know. And there has to be a reason that Bush didn't join Obama on ground zero.
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hkochii
Why do I even care?
09:01 AM on 05/03/2011
In order to prove a DNA identity it's necessary to have a known reference sample from the person you're trying to identify. Where did they get the reference sample and how long have they had it?

I find it interesting that within hours it was announced that DNA testing proved Bin Ladens identity yet everything I can find about DNA testing says it takes 3 to 10 days to get a result. Has our government come up with a new state of the art portable rapid response DNA testing apparatus? Or is this news of 99.9% sure result of Bin Ladens identity another government lie?
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Lilith Anderson
11:29 AM on 05/03/2011
It would not have been 99.9%, that is whole inaccurate. Theoretically, if two people are full siblings, 50% of the tested genes should be identical. If they are half siblings, only 25% should be identical. In practice, genes from the two parents combine randomly. So these are averages rather than exact numbers.
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Bike Commuter
No More Hurting People
12:18 PM on 05/03/2011
As I pointed out below. Nobody is claiming a 99.9% match among genes. They are stating that the result shows a 99.9% likelihood that it is bin Iaden.
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03:57 PM on 05/03/2011
Thanks Lilith---I learned something today!
05:05 PM on 05/07/2011
You are correct, hk. They say they are comparing to his sister, but this is not a regular DNA test, but rather a mitochondrial (maternal) DNA test.

And I don't think that test is yet being done in hours.
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BurtonDesque
Fear a Blank Planet
03:46 AM on 05/03/2011
wow. the conspiracy loons are out in force tonight.

For the rest of us, here's some laughs at OBL's expense:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=9294138184493326603&hl=en&cd=1&cad=src:ppiwlink&ei=qbC_TYKcEfO3iALJqOy8AQ&dtab=2
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European1919
I am the PigmⒶn
02:42 AM on 05/03/2011
He's seal food now.
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snoopbuzz
Left RNC because of TP
04:10 AM on 05/03/2011
Nice one.
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04:13 AM on 05/03/2011
LOL
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impatient
12:52 AM on 05/03/2011
What did they compare his DNA to? Did they have his blood or something? his kids' blood? did they take blood from the young wife and her child? How do they know what they're comparing the sequences to?
lqw
Justmyopinion
08:40 AM on 05/03/2011
Osama's sister apparently had brain surgery and Osama's DNA was compared to hers.
I want to see the pictures.
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Lilith Anderson
11:30 AM on 05/03/2011
Osama Bin Laden was the only child of his two parents. He had no full blooded sisters or brothers. If two people are full siblings, 50% of the tested genes should be identical. If they are half siblings, only 25% should be identical. In practice, genes from the two parents combine randomly. So these are averages rather than exact numbers.