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Poker Players Are Nearly As Skilled As Baseball Players, Freakonomics Economist Finds

Poker Skill

The Huffington Post   First Posted: 05/09/11 05:18 PM ET Updated: 07/09/11 06:12 AM ET

Proving poker is a game of skill, not luck, could be a huge win for the online industry revolving around it. And a new paper could do just that.

University of Chicago economics professor Steven Levitt, famous for the best-selling Freakonomics series, has published a working paper alongside fellow University of Chicago professor Thomas Miles entitled "The Role of Skill Versus Luck in Poker: Evidence From the World Series of Poker." In it, they attempt to answer the central question surrounding the legality of the online poker industry: is it a game of skill or luck?

The hugely popular industry of online poker has been controversial for some time now. Despite efforts to curb the industry, most notably the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, still upwards of 10 million Americans play poker online for money. Just last month, three popular online poker sites -- Full Tilt Poker, PokerStars and Absolute Poker -- were shutdown by the FBI, and the federal government announced plans to recover $3 billion from them, according to the Los Angeles Times.

The central question surrounding the legality of the industry, on which Americans consumers spend $6 billion annually, has been whether poker is a game or skill or luck. Despite this, the paper says, "[s]tate courts that have ruled on whether poker is a game of skill-versus-luck generally have done so in the absence of any statistical evidence[.]"

To answer the question, Levitt and Miles looked at information made available by the 2010 World Series of Poker. The annual event, held in Las Vegas, includes 57 tournaments, 32,000 participants and $185 million prize money, including the "Main Event," in which the grand winner earns almost $9 million.

The duo found significant evidence that poker requires skill. Players assumed to be skilled earned 30 percent on their investment, compared to all other players, who lost 15 percent. In dollar terms, and even excluding the highly-skilled "Main Event," high skill players earned an average of $350 per tournament, while other players lost $400 on average.

To put that in perspective, Levitt and Miles compare the return on a poker investment with that common from the financial markets. "The observed differences in ROIs [return on investments] are highly statistically significant and far larger in magnitude than those observed in financial markets," the paper says, "where fees charged by the money managers viewed as being most talented can run as high as three percent of assets under management and thirty percent of annual returns."

In human speak, that means the money of skilled players is better invested in a poker tournament than Wall Street, despite conventional wisdom that would indicate the opposite. In fact, the paper finds, "the high skilled player wins 54.9 percent of the match ups." That compares more closely to what is witnessed in Major League Baseball than anything on Wall Street:

"Since the year 2007, [baseball] teams that made the playoffs the previous season win 55.7 percent of their games in Major League Baseball against teams that failed to make the playoffs in the previous year. Thus, in some crude sense, the predictability of outcomes for pairs of players in a poker tournament is similar to that between teams in Major League Baseball. To the extent that baseball would unquestionably be judged a game of skill, the same conclusion might reasonably be applied to poker in light of the data."
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Proving poker is a game of skill, not luck, could be a huge win for the online industry revolving around it. And a new paper could do just that. University of Chicago economics professor Steven Le...
Proving poker is a game of skill, not luck, could be a huge win for the online industry revolving around it. And a new paper could do just that. University of Chicago economics professor Steven Le...
 
 
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06:01 AM on 07/04/2011
A good 7 million active daily users of a poker app in Facebook conjures an image of greedy professionals and con-men who raise high stakes, only in that app, there aren't any convertible real-life cash in store. But even with that, a lot people still play. 6.8% of the population of adults play poker, and around 2.6% play for real money (ToplineFindings), wouldn't this number alone, if taxed, work out for the government's cause? Gain revenue and maintain the freedom, let them soar through online casino rooms and give them liberty.
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JackHoffman
Pundit
01:41 AM on 05/16/2011
What to Do Now That You Can't Play Poker Online?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y13kiJoYFSs
01:07 AM on 05/15/2011
That is sheer luck ...u can't change teh game with your skill :(
http://hotstuffcelebrity.blogspot.com/
08:43 PM on 05/12/2011
BOOM! That just happened ;)
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JennZ
Veg,Mom,Secular Humanist,Cats, Sci-Fi
06:38 PM on 05/11/2011
As an avid Texas Hold 'Em player, I can see this. I think it is a combination of luck and skill.
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JimNast
Mr. President, We must not allow a mine shaft gap!
12:44 PM on 05/11/2011
If poker was a game of luck, you wouldn't consistently see the same people performing at the top year after year. Watch a top player like Daniel Negreanu and it becomes obvious.
12:20 PM on 05/11/2011
As a pro online poker player since 2004, I can say with absolute certainty that in the long term, its a game of skill, tho there is some short-term "luck," which is really just fluctuations in probabilities. Most sites go to great lengths to ensure the fairness and integrity of the games. This isn't a case of sites ripping off the players, just about whether they violated some bogus law that never shoulda been passed in 2006.

I've paid hundreds of thousands in taxes, I guess the IRS doesn't need my money anymore. I put a tremendous amount of effort into getting good at the game. I never made more than $10/hr before poker, and having been out of the "real" job market for 7 years, its not likely I could get any decent work now.

Everyone I know that saw my success and wanted to duplicate it failed, because they weren't willing to put in the work, and they couldn't handle the stress of it. It was a mixture of just not being smart enough and not working hard enough, mostly it was work ethic.

I don't gamble at any other game. I don't drink, smoke, or party at all. I am boring and old-fashioned otherwise. I have given a lot of money to friends, family, and charities. There are a lot of really great people in the poker world, there's no reason to oppose the game or the players.
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Bados
I love Sarah Palin. No wait...I love parasailing.
01:10 PM on 05/11/2011
I hear ya bud. Black Friday definitely change my life. People need to understand that the only reasons UB STARS and FT were shut down was because of the fraudulent activities they engaged in not the fact that we were playing poker in the USA.

The truth is the big 3 bought shares in failing banks like SunTrust of Utah I think it was to process our checks. They also coded the transactions to represent bogus businesses. Thats actual fraud. If they hadnt gotten so greedy, there would have been no problem. They just didnt want to pay processing fees to processors anymore.

I'm pretty lucky because I was always kinda paranoid about leaving money online. Especially on AP/UB. I cashed out pretty often so I didnt really get stuck for too much.
I've heard horror stories though.

Have you tried Carbon, Black Chip or Bodog?

I worked pretty damn hard myself to become a winning player then........
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11:52 AM on 05/11/2011
like drugs, i say legalize it, then tax and regulate it here in the u.s.

i don't trust the software on those sites, they could so easily pre-determine who gets dealt winning hands and manipulate the outcome. as it stands, nobody can prove it one way or the other, and no governing body can touch them even if they could.
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11:50 AM on 05/11/2011
skilled players consistently win money and make all the right moves. but tournaments are different than cash games. with a field as big as the main event WSOP or any tournament with a lot of entrants, a lot of it boils down to luck. that's why you DON'T see the best players in the world at the final table very often in big tournaments.

it's like golf tournaments. the best players finish in the money and make a living, but they don't always win every tournament.
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AyeChart
Retired Army, half-retired physician
03:11 PM on 05/10/2011
So Obama may have been better off--and the country better off--had he taken the stimulus money and bankrolled a highly skilled player at the poker tables in Las Vegas.
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Realitylost
Take your ball and go home, whiners.
02:10 PM on 05/10/2011
Didn't a study to prove this, just watch the World Series of Poker. A variation of the same dozen or so pro's every year with maybe one or two new faces mixed in. If it was about luck it would be a different group every year.
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AyeChart
Retired Army, half-retired physician
03:34 PM on 05/10/2011
You make a fine point!
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jameshat
05:44 PM on 05/10/2011
actually, if you look at the final table it's rarely the same faces but still the faces at the table are generally the professionals. no matter how good you are you still need some cards to cash.
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HerzogD
06:13 PM on 05/10/2011
Agreed. The final table at the WSOP is typically a bunch of guys I've never heard of.
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Martin Houde
I am no microbe
02:07 PM on 05/10/2011
On average, perhaps.

But the most skilled poker player can lose in the face of a newbie who isn't even trying. The cards decide that, nothing else.

Yes there is a lot of skills. And like in baseball, luck is involved. But to a much higher extent in poker. Bad beats happen. ESPECIALLY on online poker.
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AyeChart
Retired Army, half-retired physician
03:14 PM on 05/10/2011
It's the average, long-term, that counts.  I used to play blackjack in Las Vegas for profit.  Used to sell a booklet on blackjack techniques there.  And one would occasionally hit a bad run of the cards even using good playing technique and card counting accurately.  But things always turn around, and a 1% profit over a large number of bets is significant.

Now I do not recommend blackjack for profit now.  The casinos have perfected shuffling techniques that adversely affect player wins, they deal from more decks, shuffle the shoes after less play, etc.  It's not really worth it now, far as I'm concerned.
gclafontaine
Sand is a small price to pay for sandlessness.
01:33 PM on 05/10/2011
Just another example of how economists think in very naive terms. A physicist could have told you that this conclusion is trivial.
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AyeChart
Retired Army, half-retired physician
03:35 PM on 05/10/2011
Not if you are playing poker with these guys...
Koiquoe
Have an unyielding faith in yourself
01:19 PM on 05/10/2011
The skillset required in poker is much similar to those used in trading the financial markets. This, I believe, would have been an apt comparison for this study.
05:36 PM on 05/10/2011
Eventually in poker you have to reveal your hand...rules, you know.

I'd love for the financial markets (what rules?) to show their hand.
$600 Trillion in swaps? REALLY?????
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JimNast
Mr. President, We must not allow a mine shaft gap!
12:57 PM on 05/11/2011
Eventually in poker you have to reveal your hand...
That is true only some of the time.
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Bados
I love Sarah Palin. No wait...I love parasailing.
01:13 PM on 05/11/2011
I've won tournaments having to show very few hands.
01:12 PM on 05/10/2011
Poker is obviously a game of skill and it should be legal. Online poker, however, requires government controls to ensure a lack of fraud- just as financial speculation does. What should happen is this: We should have private online poker websites that apply for a license to a government body that regulates them and inspects their programming to ensure they are fair. How to fund said government body? Simple, take a percentage of the winnings from all the websites! The state could even take a small slice of the profits so it becomes profitable for us as a society to have this. It is a pretty clear-cut issue as I see it- this is a vice that we should all make money off of instead of trying to stop people from playing it. It's not heroin, it's just poker.
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AyeChart
Retired Army, half-retired physician
03:36 PM on 05/10/2011
Government controls?  Another recipe for disaster.  What percentage of winners would have to be black?  Hispanic?
12:21 PM on 05/11/2011
What ARE you talking about? I am talking about government controls over internet poker websites so that users know that there is not a fake player or collusion between players... Not having government controls is the recipe for disaster, my misguided friend. You should be more patriotic. :-)