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Bair: Small Banks Can Withstand Swipe Fee Crackdown

Swipe Fees

First Posted: 05/12/11 04:22 PM ET Updated: 07/12/11 06:12 AM ET

WASHINGTON -- The Federal Reserve chairman and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation chairwoman insisted Thursday that regulating the fees banks can charge merchants to swipe debit cards, as Congress has mandated, may be unworkable for small banks and could lead to higher bank fees for consumers. At the same time, the Fed's Ben Bernanke and the FDIC's Shelia Bair said that they were committed to implementing the law, which is scheduled to go into effect July 21, as Bair acknowledged that the new rules would not spark the failure of any banks.

Their comments were prompted by heated questioning from Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) during a Banking Committee hearing. Tester is sponsoring a bill to delay the Fed's swipe fee crackdown for two years. He has also been furiously raising money from Wall Street ahead of his 2012 reelection campaign, which is expected to be a close race. Just as the banking industry is devoting everything it can to support the Tester amendment, major retailers like Walmart, Target and Home Depot are devoting tremendous lobbying resources to the fight.

The battle over swipe fees is largely taking place off the public radar. But it is consuming as much time in Congress as any other discussion -- a symbol of the true priorities of Congress. With $16 billion a year in debit card swipe fees at stake, major retailers and banks hope to convince Congress to give them as big a piece of the pie as possible. Merchants pay banks higher swipe fees in the U.S. than in other countries. Wherever possible, those fees are passed on to customers in the form of higher prices.

Both Bair and Bernanke indicated that it would be difficult for them to exempt small banks from the swipe fee crackdown in practice, even though last year's law requires the Fed to impose such an exemption. The bill orders the Fed to limit swipe fees for big banks, but it explicitly excludes banks with less than $10 billion in assets from the new fee caps. Bernanke said that market forces might prevent small banks from continuing to charge high fees if big banks are charging less. Bair suggested that the Fed was not exercising all of its powers to establish that exemption, but also acknowledged that the ultimate impact on community banks would likely be minute.

"On initial analysis, it doesn't look like it would clearly stress some institutions putting them to the point of failure," Bair said. "No, we don't -- we don't think that'll happen."

Instead, Bair is concerned that limiting swipe fees will eat into small bank profits.

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), the sponsor of the original swipe fee amendment, said in April that Bernanke's and Bair's position is colored by their relationship with the banks.

“All I can say is that Bair and Bernanke, who I respect, have spent a lifetime around banks and bankers,” Durbin said. “I’d met with [the Fed chairman] early on, and he never said one word to me that this couldn’t be done.”

At Thursday's hearing, Tester took a (thinly) veiled swipe at Durbin while questioning Bernanke.

"I know we're in a political process here, and I know you've probably been getting a lot of pressure from people -- or at least one person from the Senate," Tester said in a clear reference to the Illinois senator.

"I can't say with certainty, but I think there's good reason to be concerned about it," Bernanke responded, referring to the impact on small banks. He claimed that the result of the rule would be "some smaller banks being less profitable or even, or even failing."

Bair, whose job requires far more engagement with small banks than Bernanke's, rejected the Fed chairman's failure prognosis moments later.

Bair also indicated that, if the Fed really wanted to exempt small banks from the rule, it could do so by simply requiring card networks like Visa and Mastercard to allow small banks to charge higher swipe fees. Visa has already indicated that it will adopt such a "two-tiered" pricing plan, and Mastercard is expected to follow suit -- regardless of what the Fed dictates.

Bernanke told the committee that unspecified "market forces" would work against the Fed, if it required such a system.

Regulating swipe fees is one half of a Durbin strategy to peel elements of the business community away from Republicans. The second half involves pushing a tax on Internet sales, which angers Amazon.com but is a priority of brick-and-mortar firms who want to level the field. (Amazon.com is largely exempt from state sales taxes.)

Bair and Bernanke gave the banks a boost this winter by wondering aloud whether it would be possible to effectively implement the Durbin Amendment -- the provision of last year's Wall Street reform legislation that caps the fees big banks can charge, but creates an exemption for small banks. Small banks have argued that merchants will simply not accept their cards for payments, but will instead accept only the cheaper cards of big banks if the amendment is enacted. They have demanded that the Fed delay implementation to continue studying the matter.

"We have plenty of information -- that is not a problem," Bernanke admitted at the hearing, giving a boost to the merchants fighting the delay.

Tester was the only panel member to question Bernanke and Bair on swipe fees.

“Chairman Bernanke’s comments confirm that Congress shouldn’t insert politics or prejudge the thorough fact-based process the Federal Reserve has conducted,” said Doug Kantor, counsel to the Merchants Payments Coalition. “Merchant groups from around the country have written to Congress demonstrating that the small bank exemption will work. The big bank-generated bloviation about the fate of their smaller competitors should not fool anyone.”

See video of the entire exchange, courtesy of Tester's office:

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WASHINGTON -- The Federal Reserve chairman and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation chairwoman insisted Thursday that regulating the fees banks can charge merchants to swipe debit cards, as Congress ...
WASHINGTON -- The Federal Reserve chairman and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation chairwoman insisted Thursday that regulating the fees banks can charge merchants to swipe debit cards, as Congress ...
 
 
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09:42 PM on 05/17/2011
Of course the discussion only discusses merchants and banks, what about the consumer? We shouldn't have to pay anything to "use" a piece of plastic to effect a transaction.

They are just figuring out more ways to get another piece of us. The chips are going to be next.
The beast is here.
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dtallwalk
08:30 PM on 05/13/2011
Then what the banks are saying is swipe fees
Are what is keep the bank doors open
If this is the case they are making.... I will not be putting money in those banks
With that kind of weak bank planning management.
05:58 PM on 05/31/2011
Actually, banks make very little in interest these days. Fees help keep the doors open. Small banks, restaurants, and grocery stores are all in the same boat in terms of profitability. The margins are very tight, so we really need the fee income. Credit Unions are in the same boat - so go figure. If credit unions want this as much as small banks - your equation of banks=bad and greedy goes out the door.
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Yorksgal
'Conservative Christian' is a complete oxymoron.
04:12 PM on 05/13/2011
Funny how credit unions do not need to charge their customers - swipe fees. Some even pay you back if I have to use another's ATM.
05:54 PM on 05/31/2011
Wow - you really miss the whole argument. Banks don't charge their customers swipe fees either! Credit Unions want this interchange issue to go away as well as Banks. Small banks and credit unions depend on this as a source of income.
09:37 AM on 05/13/2011
I have never used a debit card. Why should I? Cash works great. Also, I have no interest in these swipe fees. But it is amusing to watch them fight over how to split up this windfall. .
09:18 AM on 05/13/2011
Banks like to buy all politicians. Democrats and Republicans.
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ILoveGreatDanes
If you can read this,my cloaking device is broken.
08:59 AM on 05/13/2011
That's the answer to everything, isn't it? Just pass on higher costs of ______ to the customer. Every steaming pile gets handed down to us, and we get to pay more, more, more in return. I totally agree with pjwrites. The IRS takes a big chunk of my check. Just let them take the whole thing. Fee this, fee that. Property taxes, income taxes, social security taxes, fees to check baggage, exorbitant gas prices, more expensive food, terrible real estate market, and high unemployment. Oh, and don't forget to support all the illegals' education and welfare while we're at it and fork over another several billion dollars for more stupid full body scanners for the "War on Terror." Pardon me while I puke.
08:55 AM on 05/13/2011
All you need to know about republican leaders:

They hate taxes.
They love profits.

They hate the poor.
They hate Medicaid

They hate the middle class worker.
They hate Medicare and Social Security.

At the root of it all they want the money paid into Social Security to go to Wall Street by the stock market. They also want the money paid to Medicaid and Medicare to go into their pockets as profits from private insurers.
bcunnin679
Political Correctness, the enemy of free speech
09:04 AM on 05/13/2011
I hate Medicad. Both parties hate the middle class
11:19 AM on 05/13/2011
Medicaid is for those who don't earn enough money. I don't hate them because many of them have worked hard but get or have gotten very low pay.

Then they were the first to be laid off.

Everyone should have to live as poor person for a few months. It would change a lot of attitudes.
iam99
To know what you prefer...
06:16 AM on 05/13/2011
Feeing (fee creation) is bald-faced thievery.
When did stealing for profits become an accepted business model?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
pjwrites
06:00 AM on 05/13/2011
I would like to suggest that maybe it's time to just give it all up.

These banks and our government know where all the money is and they want it all for themselves, so let's give it up - let them just take it already. Take it all. Spend it on whatever you want, whatever makes you happy. Go to war, buy new jets, steal resources, gamble, travel, do whatever you want.

We'll survive, somehow. It would be a relief, actually. Maybe then you'd stop pounding away at us with your tiresome b.s., propaganda, obfuscations, and revisionist history, stealing a penny at a time.

So take it already. The money is all yours, all of it, every last penny, nickel, dime and dollar.

Just leave the rest of us alone and we'll figure out how to move forward without it - and without you.
08:38 AM on 05/13/2011
Excellent. We may as well sign our checks and hand it over to the gas and health insurance companies.

Would it work if we could form small businesses that compete with the big businesses? What I am thinking is each county should have their own oil rig and pool their money for health care.
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pjwrites
05:06 AM on 05/14/2011
I like it!
Bringing it down to the local level and making it work in your own community. Only problem is, their arms are so long! Those hands will be in our pockets no matter what we do.
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Vendetta101
Pitchfork..check,Torches..check
08:19 AM on 05/15/2011
Maybe Ron Paul doesn't sound so bad after all. You can tell he's a nice guy and not a crook.We should have burned Wall Street to the ground for the crimes against the people of this country but we didn't.The politicians are bought and paid for.The banks are as we speak writing the new regulations they are going to break.
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2garen
02:32 AM on 05/13/2011
The excuse is always small business can't handle the situation. What that means is they don't give a damn about the small businesses and only care about the large mulitnational corporations. That is always the way it works.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Carolab
Just another hostage of the poopy heads
02:00 AM on 05/13/2011
This is cr-ap.  They are nickel and diming the small banks out of business ON PURPOSE.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PhilipTaylor
Legalized Bribery is an Oxymoron - must END
03:16 AM on 05/13/2011
BIG MONOPOLIES!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PhilipTaylor
Legalized Bribery is an Oxymoron - must END
01:52 AM on 05/13/2011
 LEGALIZED BRIBERY OF TESTER:

$715,738   Lobbyists
$705,953   Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
$357,664   Misc Business
01:19 AM on 05/13/2011
The ATM machines that are inside gas stations, convience stores, shopping malls are the worse offenders. The ower of the machine is chargeing more because that is his business...how he makes a living. From reading many of the posts people are confused about the fee they pay at an ATM machine, not affliated with any one bank, and the banks own machine, located on their property.
12:23 AM on 05/13/2011
It's amazing to me that Wall Street Banks are local constituents of a Senator from MONTANA.
April22
Some experiences in life are ineffable
09:18 PM on 05/12/2011
Oh Bernanke, always a friend to the big banks and their coffers.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PhilipTaylor
Legalized Bribery is an Oxymoron - must END
01:56 AM on 05/13/2011
They OWN HIM!
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2garen
02:34 AM on 05/13/2011
Yes they do and Geithner too.
08:40 AM on 05/13/2011
It may be Bernanke owns the big banks and their coffers.